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A-League & 2nd Tier Expansion Thread V2

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calling it now:

11. southern sydney

12. 2nd brisbane

13. south-east melbourne

14. south-west sydney

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We're struggling to find teams viable for a 1st division, how will we have enough to cover a 2nd division?

Get the A-League 1 to 14-teams and then lets look at an A-League 2.

But, I can also see Wellington making way (more AFC/FIFA pressure I'd say) and then we'll need another one to the list.

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1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

https://twitter.com/fourfourtwooz/status/865001470608814081

Wow the FFA have actually done something right :shok:

Hope they'd just kibosh this whole southern malaka all together.

Hopefully so.

FFA rejects tge W-League bid probably because the Mariners already have the license.

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Ray Gatt tweet from yesterday

Everyone forgetting that the Mariners will field a WL team next season so no room for southern expansion WL side

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LOL at Les and the Southern Expansion people. They might as well have said "we were hoping to get the W-league club across the line so that we could sneak the A-league bid in through the back door."

Imagine the uproar if the FFA approved the W-league club, everyone would be saying the Southern Expansion A-league bid has been rubber-stamped even though the FFA have put expansion on the backburner and delayed the criteria. Even the FFA aren't stupid enough to bring that upon themselves.

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Roberto Carlos signs with South Melbourne if they make the aleague. Have always wondered why marquee coaches haven't been pursued more

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Hmmm on bill and bozz had live interview with SM bid chief they said they are in negotiations but nothing done 

agree though would love to see some big names don't want the first marquee coach being Kewell!

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7 hours ago, GunnerWanderer said:

Hmmm on bill and bozz had live interview with SM bid chief they said they are in negotiations but nothing done 

agree though would love to see some big names don't want the first marquee coach being Kewell!

Won't be Kewell.

He is staying in ol Blighty appointed as coach of Crawley Town 

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On 2017-5-30 at 9:10 PM, hughsey said:

Roberto Carlos signs with South Melbourne if they make the aleague. Have always wondered why marquee coaches haven't been pursued more

I wonder if something like this would have much influence over the FFA. I don't think they are dying to bring South Melbourne in because of the past, but could they resist if it was confirmed that it would add Roberto Carlos to the a-league?

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Posted (edited)

"Southern Expansion" which has the face of Les Murray & Craig Foster (issue of journalistic integrity at issue there) is backed by a member of a Chinese Property Developer that has had significant growth in the Sydney & Hunter markets. 

You may remember (doubtful) that CCM played a Chinese team in 2015 to qualify for the Asian Champions League; CCM was sponsored by this Chinese Property Developer. They have long been interested in purchasing a club since the point of sponsorship with CCM a couple of years ago. They initially wanted to buy WSW, which wasn't going to happen but are now launching a bid to become part of the A-League in 2018. 

Edited by spectacular291
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11 hours ago, luisenrique said:

I wonder if something like this would have much influence over the FFA. I don't think they are dying to bring South Melbourne in because of the past, but could they resist if it was confirmed that it would add Roberto Carlos to the a-league?

If they are serious about all the crap they spew regarding marketability and profile of an approved 3rd marquee player then it should. Think of how many people loved and worshipped the Brazil and Real Madrid sides he played in, they're arguably some of the most prolific line ups ever. 

Regardless of old Roberto, I don't see how the FFA could possibly justify excluding SM from an expanded Aleague. They would easily enter as one of the biggest clubs in the league; they're more than financially viable, would have the best stadium deal in the league, a strong, existing following going back decades, a proud history and are located in Melbourne so that keeps Fox happy. The only fault that they could be possibly seen to have is that they have a Greek heritage, which is irrelevant now if the FFA have faith in their National Clubs Identification Policy. They keep saying how cautiously they are taking expansion, well here's a guaranteed option staring them right in the face. I would consider it reckless for them to be ignored for a generic start up team with no history or prior support, a dodgy stadium deal and half assed backing, all because they once played in the NSL and have Greek heritage.

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Yeah you can't be "one of the biggest clubs in the league" while keeping their current "the best stadium deal in the league". A 12k stadium, even if sold out every single game, could make them the most financially stable mid tier club, but Lakeside doesn't match with ambitions of biggest club in the league.

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10 hours ago, NotVaughan said:

Yeah you can't be "one of the biggest clubs in the league" while keeping their current "the best stadium deal in the league". A 12k stadium, even if sold out every single game, could make them the most financially stable mid tier club, but Lakeside doesn't match with ambitions of biggest club in the league.

how do you measure size of a club?

 

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  • Jul 14 2017 at 8:00 PM 
  •  
  • Hong Kong firm Jiayuan pledges $300 million for A-League stadium
  •  

Renders of what a future Jiayuan funded $300 million football stadium could look like.

Renders of what a future Jiayuan funded $300 million football stadium could look like. Supplied

Hong Kong-listed real estate company Jiayuan has committed to spending $300 million on a purpose-built football stadium in southern Sydney if the new Southern Expansion club wins a place in the A-League.

The group, which already holds a stake in Australia's first ASX-listed Chinese property company Boyuan, said it would fully fund the club being spearheaded by football commentators Les Murray and Craig Foster and former NSW PCYC chief executive Chris Gardiner.

"Southern's capital investments will be guaranteed by the Jiayuan Group, its subsidiary operations in Australia and other local project partners," a Jiayuan spokesman told AFR Weekend.

"Investment will be sustained by the Group's commitment to the future of its local expansion strategy. They will be working with various local partners and communities to realise this."

 

The trio launched the Southern Expansion campaign in March to deliver new professional football clubs for the southern region of Sydney, covering the St George, Sutherland and the South Coast football communities.

 

It will bid for for places in the A-League, W-League and national youth league, though Football Federation Australia has said it has no imminent expansion plans.

Jiayuan has said it will not only fund the football stadium, but also pay for $15 million in training, administrative facilities and local infrastructure for the new club.

The league is expected to deliver $7.4million to $9.2 million in additional media rights, $850,000 in additional sponsorship and an additional 1.9 million television viewers for Football Federation Australia, new research by sports marketing consultancy Gemba shows.

The proposed club, known for now as Southern Expansion, expects home game match attendances of 185,000 a season, Gemba says.

 

"The almost unanimous view of football fans around the country is that the game needs to continue to grow and be ambitious, beyond the current 10-team competition as soon as practicable," Southern Head of Football Craig Foster said.

"Since 2012/13, as highlighted by the analysis, there has been flat regular season attendances, along with low growth in subscription TV viewership. Expansion is critical to lifting exposure, investment, support and to grow the football economy, too often crying out for additional income today."

Jiayuan sees the league as an opportunity to accelerate its global expansion plans, which include local community projects with a special interest in team sports, such as football.

It saw its presence in Australia with Boyuan as an opportunity to fund a new Australian team, which it hopes would eventually win the Asian Champions League.

 

Already, the A-League club Melbourne City is owned by Chinese-backed City Football Group.

In Europe, Chinese investors have put money in Manchester City, Atlético Madrid and Lyon.

China's rich list The Hurun Report said Chinese interest in football, particularly in European, is "huge".

While Beijing has increased scrutiny of Chinese global investments in recent times, the $860 million Jiayuan believes the Chinese government is still in favour of sporting club investments.

http://www.afr.com/real-estate/hk-firm-jiayuan-pledges-300m-for-aleague-stadium-20170714-gxb6e8?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0055-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-afr-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter

  •  



 

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If they're worth $860 million why would they gamble  $350 million on a risky A-league expansion team? They could just but Brisbane and win the league with them for 1/10 the cost!

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Good question. Re just buying the Roar, Maybe Qld doesn't suit the master plan.

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I don't want a southern Sydney team but that stadium would be nice. As if the government are going to approve that though, it goes completely against their monopoly

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Would be a front end for this HK based real estate group to sell real eastate to - wait! - new arrivals in that particular part of Sydney. 

That'll do for me as a conspiracy theory.

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FCB, this is nothing new. I don't know if you remember but there was a Chinese based company looking to buy some assets of the government in south australia. It was something very similar with this, this Chinese company was going to invest in stadia or a sports team before the SA government pulled the plug.

These companies see it as way to buy favor with the locals and government. No conspiracy theory. Just the way it is. Wouldn't be surprised if on the land there would be a residential, hotel, commercial or retail preceint built in to it. Before you know it... oh wait, conspiracy :cheeky: 

 

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Also chief, I was thinking it might be best to break it into two different threads.

2nd division and a-league expansion are almost at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

I feel that the second division will get off the ground in the next year or so and the A-League is set to expand a further two teams. Two separate threads so they are combined and confused.

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"Southern Expansion"

They're not subtle are they?

 

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Semi-pro second division won't work warns PFA

 
  •  
    1ffa1c92-d97f-4dea-bad5-0f39c42a9a93_1500279775.jpeg?itok=077rKvs7&mtime=1500279835
     
The A-League players' union has urged Football Federation Australia to seriously consider the merits of a national second division.
Source: 
AAP
17 JUL 2017 - 6:23 PM  UPDATED 16 MINS AGO
 
But Professional Footballers Australia CEO John Didulica has warned any efforts to "reverse engineer" a cut-price, semi-professional blueprint to suit state-league clubs would be doomed to fail.

The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC), a lobby group of more than 100 NPL clubs, held their first board meeting in Brisbane on Saturday as they seek to further their plans to establish a second division with eventual promotion and relegation to the top tier.

The AAFC board discussed three potential models - including a dual conference structure to negate travel costs - and intends to publish a report in October detailing their preferred option.

However, AAFC chairman Rabieh Krayem - the former boss of defunct A-League club North Queensland Fury - has suggested it would most likely be a semi-professional competition involving former National Soccer League clubs like Sydney Olympic, Melbourne Knights and South Melbourne.

The AAFC has also dismissed PFA modelling that suggested it would cost $5.5 million per year to run a professional second division club, in addition to more than $10 million in centralised league operating costs, arguing it could be done for around half that amount.

Didulica is adamant that doing it on the cheap would not create the sort of playing opportunities Australian football desperately needs.

"To take the step carelessly and just hope things fall into place is hugely risky and people who have formed this group have been part of A-League clubs that have failed," Didulica told AAP.

"They should know the pitfalls of acting with haste.

"It's fine to dismiss that figure, saying 'we can't afford it' - but then you're not ready to have a fully professional second-tier competition.

"What you're proposing is a re-heated semi-professional competition. My question is, what's the point?

"We can't just reverse engineer a league to suit existing interests. We need to take a step back and ask what is in the interests of Australian football."

It's understood FFA see the AAFC's call for a second division as implausible given the game's current financial state.

Any national second division would need to be sanctioned by FFA, or else it would operate outside of FIFA rules.

AAFC is also seeking a position on FFA's congress, the body that elects members to FFA's board.

"There'll be various views about that that will come forward when the FIFA/AFC delegation arrive," FFA chief David Gallop told AAP.

"That's as much as we can say about that at this point."

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The biggest issue is that the AAFC won't announce costings for a second division but say that PFA costings aren't realistic. 

PFA 100% spot on though, no point in going ahead if it's going to be a two bob bit part league. Proper league, properly funded and set up to succeed for many years to come.

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Needs to be a proper professional 2nd division.

Funds was going to be the big issue of course... so is travel... its not cheap flying to Townsville or even Perth

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24 minutes ago, SBW said:

Needs to be a proper professional 2nd division.

Funds was going to be the big issue of course... so is travel... its not cheap flying to Townsville or even Perth

At 2nd division level initially prob needs to be by state, so a NSW, VIC, QLD, SA and WA 2nd div leagues, top from each to play off against each other, winner goes up.

Once it becomes more established they can look at a nationwide 2nd level. They should conf north / south model from England.

Edited by WSWBoro
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I think the biggest hurdle for a relegation system here is how to keep a relegated a-league team from going under.

 

EDIT: Unless you can bring second div close behind a league in coverage and marketability. Maybe run a parallel league for a while. I really don't feel confident about the sustainability of it  . Even though i would love it.

Edited by Jimspade

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