Youth League General Discussion

[Paul01]

Macarthur FC chief calls for enquiry into ’exorbitant’ player pathway fees https://www.sbs.com.au/macarthur-fc-chief-calls-for-enquiry-into-exorbitant-player-pathway-fees?cid=twgapp:socialshare:copylink

[Taurus]

Here's the 3 goals we scored in the 3 - 2 win over Northern Tigers in a trial at Turramurra on Saturday night 23rd February.

Kosta Grozos scores the 1st two & is starting to hit is straps again after half a dozen consecutive games & Ali Auglah who turns 18 next week & was the #62 on our bench for last weeks Derby, scored the winner from a set piece mid way through the 2nd half.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hudl.com%2Fnotifications-tracking%2Ftracker%2FPlaylistDownloadReady-5e5c66c1ab92d90d403d8502-bef25a97-7935-4eb6-9900-e87211737156-9231060%2Femail%2Flanding%3Fforward%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftemp30d-apse2-hudlvid.s3.amazonaws.com%2F62217%2F257533%2F5e5c66c1ab92d90d403d8502%2Fz6qw%2F3_clips_from_1st_grade_mens_v_WSW_preseason_game_4.mp4%26fbclid%3DIwAR3HMQaKBMsBVFN7Uj3zMep8v8mg-IQw_TJR4x7Iawekuh8vzH89kfhjly8&h=AT0Zn7vgOTnE8JlBLHcdpUuDoCaecbeYBSmaO6jKCwEPip_bqsdfSxrcL0W8-pYbC5H4sMjwP9uuQNzgBqW0w3Raa1UeenGmWovsi6ZQCRGlKzznXW1ghDa9N8S_VkXtwNVw

[ZachMercer]

Curious to know what will happen if COVID19 puts an end to this years Youth season. My lad has only played 2 games of NPL2 and had a handful of training sessions in 2020. Will they extend the season out, reduce the already small amount of games, or simply take our registration fees and tell us to suck lemons. 

If its the later, you're gonna see a lot of parents pull the plug.

[MadKaw]

On 06/04/2020 at 8:22 AM, ZachMercer said:

Curious to know what will happen if COVID19 puts an end to this years Youth season. My lad has only played 2 games of NPL2 and had a handful of training sessions in 2020. Will they extend the season out, reduce the already small amount of games, or simply take our registration fees and tell us to suck lemons. 

If its the later, you're gonna see a lot of parents pull the plug.

Got 2 kids in the same boat. No idea how this will pan out, but its looking more and more like it will be canned or a very short season at least. 

My boys are still keeping fit and kicking a ball when possible, just in case..

Who does your lad play for.?

[ZachMercer]

On 07/04/2020 at 2:49 PM, MadKaw said:

Got 2 kids in the same boat. No idea how this will pan out, but its looking more and more like it will be canned or a very short season at least. 

My boys are still keeping fit and kicking a ball when possible, just in case..

Who does your lad play for.?

U13 for Stanmore Hawks. Club's doing a lot of work to reinvent themselves at the moment and communication is good with weekly fitness challenges to keep the lads motivated.

[Paul01]

Football NSW has started new 6 team comps for u13, u14, u15, u16 and u18 each with 5 rounds.

Groups appear to be competitive 

Group 1.1 Round 1

Apia v Sydney Olympic

Smurfs v WS Wanderers 

Sea-bogans  v Blacktown City

[Paul01]

2nd last round of NPL Youth for this season v CC Mariners 

Clean sweep in all grades!

[Paul01]

This story is not in the sports section of the SMH but is highly relevant to football in NSW

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/winning-at-any-cost-inside-the-cut-throat-and-cliquey-world-of-youth-soccer-20201121-p56gn3.html

[MartinTyler]

1 hour ago, Paul01 said:

This story is not in the sports section of the SMH but is highly relevant to football in NSW

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/winning-at-any-cost-inside-the-cut-throat-and-cliquey-world-of-youth-soccer-20201121-p56gn3.html

It's been like it for 15 years or more and steadily getting worse. 

[MadKaw]

Yep, and that's not the worse of it. My kids have been in NPL for 7 years and the sh!t that goes on is unbelievable. Dad's getting coaching licenses to ensure their kids (and friends) get selected, getting on the committee to get your kids in, sponsoring the club, brown paper bags, ethnicity (yeh I said it), and incompetent coaching that you pay thousands for.

To me, the worse thing is the arrogant / egotistic attitude of some of these people / clubs and the way they treat the kids, and parents (the customer). They are treated like numbers not people with no f#cks given as there is always someone waiting to take your spot...

We're finally out and my boys are playing prems.!

This will never end as long as parents keep lining up to get there kids into this BS competition - we did, got nothing out of it and now regret it...

Edited November 24, 2020 by MadKaw

[MartinTyler]

5 minutes ago, MadKaw said:

Yep, and that's not the worse of it. My kids have been in NPL for 7 years and the sh!t that goes on is unbelievable. Dad's getting coaching licenses to ensure their kids (and friends) get selected, getting on the committee to get your kids in, sponsoring the club, brown paper bags, ethnicity (yeh I said it), and incompetent coaching that you pay thousands for.

To me, the worse thing is the arrogant / egotistic attitude of some of these people / clubs and the way they treat the kids, and parents (the customer). They are treated like numbers not people with no f#cks given as there is always someone waiting to take your spot...

We're finally out and my boys are playing prems.!

This will never end as long as parents keep lining up to get there kids into this BS competition - we did, got nothing out of it and now regret it...

Surprised it took you 7 years to realise this !!

[StringerBellend]

5 minutes ago, MadKaw said:

Yep, and that's not the worse of it. My kids have been in NPL for 7 years and the sh!t that goes on is unbelievable. Dad's getting coaching licenses to ensure their kids (and friends) get selected, getting on the committee to get your kids in, sponsoring the club, brown paper bags, ethnicity (yeh I said it), and incompetent coaching that you pay thousands for.

To me, the worse thing is the arrogant / egotistic attitude of some of these people / clubs and the way they treat the kids, and parents (the customer). They are treated like numbers not people with no f#cks given as there is always someone waiting to take your spot...

We're finally out and my boys are playing prems.!

This will never end as long as parents keep lining up to get there kids into this BS competition - we did, got nothing out of it and now regret it...

Sokkah ain’t the only sport for nepotism the cricket rep teams when my brother was young always had the same few kids in, their dads were coaches etc. 

Kids sport is full of it

[MadKaw]

10 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

Surprised it took you 7 years to realise this !!

Oh we knew, we just did what all the other parents did, keep quiet don't make waves and hope you kids get selected cause it's what they want to do.. 

[sonar]

28 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Sokkah ain’t the only sport for nepotism the cricket rep teams when my brother was young always had the same few kids in, their dads were coaches etc. 

Kids sport is full of it

My sister, as a young mum, ripped Springwood Cricket Club a new one in when at presentation of awards night only 3 kids from her sons team got trophies and tracksuits and the rest zip, when at the start of the season ALL kids were promised one ( trophy ). She stood up and let fly and ended up with a standing ovation. Two weeks later all kids got their trophies....in all grades.

Edited November 24, 2020 by sonar

[MartinTyler]

26 minutes ago, MadKaw said:

Oh we knew, we just did what all the other parents did, keep quiet don't make waves and hope you kids get selected cause it's what they want to do.. 

The problem as I see it in this country is that we're not really serious about what constitutes 'elite' squads and teams. In NSW up until about 20 years ago kids played for their local association clubs until U/10 then if they were good enough they were selected to represent their local Association team at U/11 and U/12 levels. Youth league followed from U/13 onwards with an expanded tier. This was proper "Representative" football. Then the 2 bodies in NSW had a falling out and all the senior clubs started their own "Cadet" league in opposition to the Associations "Junior" league. Suddenly 3 times as many players were playing "Elite" football at U/11 and U/12 and quite frankly many of them would struggle in an Association Div 2 team. I can remember attending primary schools trials where a parent would pipe up "My boy plays reps" and on learning which boy it was, the lad appeared to have 2 left feet. Turns out he played for one of the 'lesser' clubs but hey, nothing like stroking a parents ego !! Parents are just as much to blame here as many have unreal aspirations for their children and are prepared to fork our ridiculous fees for the privilege. Even though some of the labels have changed (Currently SAP is flavour of the month) the problem has if anything got even worse.

[MartinTyler]

26 minutes ago, sonar said:

My sister, as a young mum, ripped Springwood Cricket Club a new one in when at presentation of awards night only 3 kids from her sons team got trophies and tracksuits and the rest zip, when at the start of the season ALL kids were promised one ( trophy ). She stood up and let fly and ended up with a standing ovation. Two weeks later all kids got their trophies....in all grades.

Ah...rewarding mediocrity !!

[sonar]

38 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

Ah...rewarding mediocrity !!

I was tbh a terrible football player when I was really young but still cherish my old pennants I got for participating. 

When a club says to young kids that at the start of the season you will get a trophy for participation and part of the game fee each week goes toward it you have to expect a little blowback (especially when it's young kids ( 8/9 yr olds )) when you don't deliver as promised. 

I watched my young nephews play football a few times. They were not very good at all. They all had dreams of playing for the Socceroos but you knew even then that none of them ever would.....lol

In their team was Sudanese kid who was really well liked but who wasn;t very good, even his dad said to me " I love my son but I know he's no Messi, he just loves football"....but in the last game of the season scored a match winner from about twenty metres from goal.....a screamer. You would of thought they won the world cup the way they celebrated. He came off crying into his dads arms after the game it meant that much. For kids that turn up to training and every game day a trophy of participation is really only a just reward.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by sonar

[MartinTyler]

3 minutes ago, sonar said:

I was tbh a terrible football player when I was really young but still cherish my old pennants I got for participating. 

When a club says to young kids that at the end of the season you will get a trophy for participation and part of the game fee each week goes toward it you have to expect a little blowback (especially when it's young kids ( 8/9 yr olds )) when you don't deliver as promised. 

I watched my young nephews play football a few times. They were not very good at all. They all had dreams of playing for the Socceroos but you knew even then that none of them ever would.....lol

In their team was Sudanese kid who was really well liked but who wasn;t very good, even his dad said to me " I love my son but I know he's no Messi, he just loves football"....but in the last game of the season scored a match winner from about twenty metres from goal.....a screamer. You would of thought they won the world cup the way they celebrated. He came off crying into his dads arms after the game it meant that much. For kids that turn up to training and every game day a trophy of participation is really only a just reward.

 

I'm in favour of players getting some recognition for completing a season and a pennant is a good idea, but I draw the line at medals and trophies.

[sonar]

5 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

I'm in favour of players getting some recognition for completing a season and a pennant is a good idea, but I draw the line at medals and trophies.

Yep....and that was my point. I would of been gutted to have gotten nothing. 

[Wanderboy]

The whole junior system in this country needs a massive overhaul. It is pathetic, and just being screwed for money. I understand, that getting good professional coaching costs money. I'm actually fine with that concept to an extent.

What I have a problem with is that this harbors the point that only those kids whose parents that can afford this, get their kids into these squads. I have, so many times, seen kids with greater talent be rejected after their parents have said that they just can't afford the fees.

I have also seen so many times kids that have been in the system for years, get places ahead of more talented kids who are trialing for the first time.

Young Wanderboy is fairly talented. Not going to play EPL ever, but seriously good enough to play at a local rep level. Yet he has been passed by many times at NPL trials due to the fact that they have already had a long term allotment of players whose parents have paid shite loads of money since they were in the Under 10's, due to the above situations at trials. My fault was that I didn't pay these exorbitant fees when he was 10 years old "to get him into the system, and known". The example above about triallists being discarded quickly rings so true.

 

[Wanderboy]

26 minutes ago, sonar said:

Yep....and that was my point. I would of been gutted to have gotten nothing. 

Tough shite mate. Not sure how serious you are, but in my years, playing RL, RU and Cricket,  there were a Player of the year, Best and Fairest, and Most Improved awards.

Everyone else got nothing, and nor should they have. And we never thought anything about it. It actually made us strive harder the next season.

This "giving every kid a medal" has pissed me of since my boy was in under 6's, 12 years ago.

[sonar]

16 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Tough shite mate. Not sure how serious you are, but in my years, playing RL, RU and Cricket,  there were a Player of the year, Best and Fairest, and Most Improved awards.

Everyone else got nothing, and nor should they have. And we never thought anything about it. It actually made us strive harder the next season.

This "giving every kid a medal" has pissed me of since my boy was in under 6's, 12 years ago.

Well I'm certainly not going to hand my pennants back because someone thinks I never deserved them. I went to every training, every game, paid my fees, and even though I and most of my mates weren't very good we still put in and tried even though we lost most of the time. The majority and I do mean the majority of kids will never be good enough to play rep football but you have to recognize effort and as was said previously a pennant says thanks for putting in.

When I played Cricket we got given a mini bat at the end of the season with batting, bowling and fielding stats on it....it was inscribed as a "a momento from our club for your effort".

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by sonar

[Smoggy]

Ohh for the simple days hey....

If you were good enough you worked your way up through the high school teams, until you represented your school which was a massive honour and a mark of how good you were. The high school competition in the north of England was outstanding quality and TOTALLY FREE. If you were not good enough for your school team you didn't **** about on weekends wasting your time, other than playing it for the love of it with perhaps a 5 aside type thing. The grand final of the high school comp was usually played at a ground like Middlesbrough, Sunderland or Newcastle.

If you made it to the school side you were guaranteed to be watched at some point by the head of the Boro, Newcastle, Sunderland, Darlington, York City or Hartlepool United youth management with an eye for the future. To be honest one of these tapping you on the shoulder was rare, but if they did you would join them for FREE, I still think this is the case. More often that not it would be one of the non league clubs that would pick the kids up from the high school sides. But sometimes you would go to one of the big clubs and work your way down to the non league outfit, and by that I mean clubs that would make the 1st or 2nd round of the FA Cup, so still pretty decent. 

So I ask myself, wtf are the schools here doing towards sports development. My old high school in the UK is now a 'community sports college'.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Smoggy

[Wanderboy]

22 minutes ago, sonar said:

Well I'm certainly not going to hand my pennants back because someone thinks I never deserved them. I went to every training, every game, paid my fees, and even though I and most of my mates weren't very good we still put in and tried even though we lost most of the time. The majority and I do mean the majority of kids will never be good enough to play rep football but you have to recognize effort and as was said previously a pennant says thanks for putting in.

When I played Cricket we got given a mini bat at the end of the season with batting, bowling and fielding stats on it....it was inscribed as a "a momento from our club for your effort".

 

I'll agree to disagree. If I didn't deserve an award, I never expected one, nor ever "hoped for one just because I participated". It just made me realise that there were better players than me that season, and I needed to work harder if I wanted to be better than them

I think this "giving everyone a trophy" is absolutely shite and encourages kids to think they don't have to work for rewards. The same as having no competition points on tables up till Under 12's.

[sonar]

21 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

I'll agree to disagree.

Ditto......lol 

If your going to say nay to kids you don't deserve anything for effort then the logical extension to that is to say to no awards for anyone or anything unless you win the comp.

Player of the Season, Best and Fairest, Most Improved are at most based on the opinion of a manager and can be open to interpretations of nepotism and/or favouritism.  Golden Boot winner is only achieved by a player because of his team mates and their assists. Games are 11 v 11 not 1 v 11. Is that fair that a player gets a reward and his team mates zip?.

Mitch Duke was Wanderers POS.....I would of gone for Lopar......some for Schwegler......all open to differing opinion.

Edited November 24, 2020 by sonar

[StringerBellend]

I was always a candidate for the encouragement award in sports, i.e. no talent but I tired hard

[MadKaw]

1 hour ago, Wanderboy said:

The whole junior system in this country needs a massive overhaul. It is pathetic, and just being screwed for money. I understand, that getting good professional coaching costs money. I'm actually fine with that concept to an extent.

What I have a problem with is that this harbors the point that only those kids whose parents that can afford this, get their kids into these squads. I have, so many times, seen kids with greater talent be rejected after their parents have said that they just can't afford the fees.

I have also seen so many times kids that have been in the system for years, get places ahead of more talented kids who are trialing for the first time.

Young Wanderboy is fairly talented. Not going to play EPL ever, but seriously good enough to play at a local rep level. Yet he has been passed by many times at NPL trials due to the fact that they have already had a long term allotment of players whose parents have paid shite loads of money since they were in the Under 10's, due to the above situations at trials. My fault was that I didn't pay these exorbitant fees when he was 10 years old "to get him into the system, and known". The example above about triallists being discarded quickly rings so true.

 

Agree, my boys never did SAP, we didn't even know it existed back in the day.

Both my boys played Div 2 under 11's and 12's (that's all the local club had), one had his mother coaching, before getting into NPL2 (or regional youth for the older one) so we thought they did well to get in over SAP kids, so it is possible.

All the BS and politics aside, there is a good side to it and as much as I regret the $ spent, the stress and putting up with all the crap, it was good for us as family, as me, my wife and both kids spent a lot of time together, travelling, talking, going to all their games and all their training and when things went well or they won we did it as a family and when things went bad and they got benched or cut we all hurt together.

There are much worse things in life.. :-)

 

 

[Edinburgh]

13 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

I'll agree to disagree. If I didn't deserve an award, I never expected one, nor ever "hoped for one just because I participated". It just made me realise that there were better players than me that season, and I needed to work harder if I wanted to be better than them

I think this "giving everyone a trophy" is absolutely shite and encourages kids to think they don't have to work for rewards. The same as having no competition points on tables up till Under 12's.

After I started writing (rambling) this, and more so the further I went, I sort of started to disagree with myself. Or at least think of contradictions. Unless you think tldr keep reading.

If tldr, I agree or ... I disagree or ... I don't know whether I agree or not, or  ... I don't know whether any of the prior three options apply.

I am inclined to agree with Wanderboy, and often think exactly the same.  I never received any award for just trying or just being in the team.  I don't remember ever getting an award for a specific success as a child, except for cub and scout badges.  Mind you the only sporting efforts as a child were in school teams, nothing else existed as far as we knew.  As far as I can tell there are no psychological after effects.**

But there's also many a time where I've seen the happiness brought to a child receiving a "participation" award, including my sons.  More often than not I was on the committee choosing the various trophies for both that and actually winning something.  I guess I wasn't prepared to rock the boat.

Now I hold the view that both giving only to winners and rampantly giving a tophy to everyone are "wrong".  Getting the right balance is often too difficult and complicated for the organisers (volunteers!) involved (and understandably so).  Add the boat rocking concern and we are where we are.

When trophies or whatever are given to everyone for participation that's fine as long as it's clear what they are for. The cricket bat example mentioned by sonar is an excellent example.  But that doesn't readily transfer to all other sports.

My sons have on occasions been awarded something for individual or team successes which has always been acknowledged, respected and applauded by their team mates.

And a belated thought, is a sport participation trophy all that different from a certificate for finishing primary school?  I say primary school to the exclusion of high school on purpose. 

Maybe that's where the trophy for everyone should stop? A medal or trophy or whatever for everyone up to U12 (or 13?),  with those for participation clearly indicated.  After that selective trophies only?  Generally speaking I think that children at 12 or even younger know the difference between gratuitous and meritorious awards.  I know I did.

While I think a bit of both is best, if I had to choose one or the other, I'd agree with Wanderboy and opt for dropping participation awards because children can tell the difference.

** Maybe my default lack of confidence would be different!?

I've thought more than once while writing this that I should just forget it and delete it but as I finish this glass of red ....

[sonar]

22 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

After I started writing (rambling) this, and more so the further I went, I sort of started to disagree with myself. Or at least think of contradictions. Unless you think tldr keep reading.

If tldr, I agree or ... I disagree or ... I don't know whether I agree or not, or  ... I don't know whether any of the prior three options apply.

I am inclined to agree with Wanderboy, and often think exactly the same.  I never received any award for just trying or just being in the team.  I don't remember ever getting an award for a specific success as a child, except for cub and scout badges.  Mind you the only sporting efforts as a child were in school teams, nothing else existed as far as we knew.  As far as I can tell there are no psychological after effects.**

But there's also many a time where I've seen the happiness brought to a child receiving a "participation" award, including my sons.  More often than not I was on the committee choosing the various trophies for both that and actually winning something.  I guess I wasn't prepared to rock the boat.

Now I hold the view that both giving only to winners and rampantly giving a tophy to everyone are "wrong".  Getting the right balance is often too difficult and complicated for the organisers (volunteers!) involved (and understandably so).  Add the boat rocking concern and we are where we are.

When trophies or whatever are given to everyone for participation that's fine as long as it's clear what they are for. The cricket bat example mentioned by sonar is an excellent example.  But that doesn't readily transfer to all other sports.

My sons have on occasions been awarded something for individual or team successes which has always been acknowledged, respected and applauded by their team mates.

And a belated thought, is a sport participation trophy all that different from a certificate for finishing primary school?  I say primary school to the exclusion of high school on purpose. 

Maybe that's where the trophy for everyone should stop? A medal or trophy or whatever for everyone up to U12 (or 13?),  with those for participation clearly indicated.  After that selective trophies only?  Generally speaking I think that children at 12 or even younger know the difference between gratuitous and meritorious awards.  I know I did.

While I think a bit of both is best, if I had to choose one or the other, I'd agree with Wanderboy and opt for dropping participation awards because children can tell the difference.

** Maybe my default lack of confidence would be different!?

I've thought more than once while writing this that I should just forget it and delete it but as I finish this glass of red ....

Good post Ed.

I agree with this....."and a belated thought, is a sport participation trophy all that different from a certificate for finishing primary school?  I say primary school to the exclusion of high school on purpose. 

Maybe that's where the trophy for everyone should stop? A medal or trophy or whatever for everyone up to U12 (or 13?),  with those for participation clearly indicated."..........and especially the last bit which is where I am coming from. If not a trophy a club T-shirt.

 

[MartinTyler]

2 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I was always a candidate for the encouragement award in sports, i.e. no talent but I tired hard

I saw what you did there