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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

Pace is one thing. Quality is another. Starc can't even get a run in our team because he is too wayward for Tests.

In any case, there was a good article on cricinfo about the speed gun, and how it doesn't really tell the story. If I can dig it up, I'll post it.

Basically, the first issue is that it doesn't actually calculate how far the ball travels and the time it takes (as you would expect because that is the normal definition of speed), it somehow measures the speed at a certain point. It's fallible. Also, the action of the bowler makes it easier or more difficult to hit.

Starc is quick but his smooth action and where he releases the ball from make him easier to hit for someone of his pace (unless he's slinging in his yorker of course!). Bowlers like Bumrah and Archer who jog in and go whoosh are difficult. Batsmen just find some bowlers harder to deal with than others, regardless of what the speed gun says.

You only have to look at Ben Stokes as an example. He regularly bowls as quick as Cummins or Hazlewood according to the speed gun. But there is no way that anyone would argue that he is as difficult to play as them. Or even actually as fast as them.

Archer is ridiculously quick, bowls from right next to the stumps and straight at the batsmen, can move it, and has a vicious bouncer the batsmen don't see coming. Most Test batsmen subconsciously use the body language of the bowler to start moving into position before the ball is released. Archer gives no early warning signals of what's coming. Almost every ball uses the same action.

But yes, doing it on the subcontinent will be interesting. As will he having to adapt when batsmen work him out. Labuschagne was leaving anything that was going over the stumps, and then when Archer pitched it up he drove him (he also played and missed quite a few early!). Those that were getting in behind it or trying to play the hook and pull shots were the ones that struggled.

I agree with you.Not so much about Starc,,,but that's just a difference of opinion.  I get that people are excited,,,especially the Poms about Archer...... but one test isn't enough to judge. He may well be one of the bowlers that decide this series...?.......but Aus bowlers Cummins and Hazlewood are just as good. Siddle has surprised me this series at how good he has been.
Both teams are fragile with the bat. Both sides are capable of losing wickets in big clumps. Warner has to be close to being dropped.....out of form with the bat and in the field. 

If Smith is out due to concusion ( and tbh he should miss the next test for his own well being if nothing else )  then it makes Eng favourites to square up and we got to the final two test with all to play for. 

Edited by sonar

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1 hour ago, sonar said:

I've no doubt he is talented. A proper full time test bowler....? We'll see. Starc is quicker.

Rank Bowler Fastest Delivery
1 Shoaib Akhtar (Pakistan) 161.3 km/h (100.2 mp/h)
2 Brett Lee (Australia) 161.1 km/h (100.1 mp/h)
3 Shaun Tait (Australia) 161.1 km/h (100.1 mp/h)
4 Jeffrey Thompson (Australia) 160.6 km/h (99.8 mp/h)
5 Mitchell Starc (Australia) 160.4 km/h (99.7 mp/h)
6 Andy Roberts (West Indies) 159.5 km/h (99.1 mp/h)
7 Fidel Edwards (West Indies) 157.7 km/h (97.9 mp/h)
8 Mitchell Johnson (Australia) 156.8 km/h (97.4 mp/h)
9 Muhammad Sami (Pakistan) 156.4 km/h (97.1 mp/h)
10 Shane Bond (New Zealand) 156.4 km/h (97.1 mp/h)

Shift Thommo to the top of the list.  That speed was recorded after he came back from wrecking his shoulder during his first series against England.  Although lightning quick when he came back he did not have the pace he had before the injury.

Thommo and Roberts measurements were recorded well before the speed gun began to be used in cricket broadcasts.

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4 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Don’t get sucked into the news LTD witch hunt, he’s a young guy playing his first test he was clearly shaken by it afterward

Somewhat agree but disagree too. You know pretty quickly if it was an ugly one or not, walking back to your mark & having a laugh when clearly the batter is not looking good at the other end, not a great look. If it was anyone else or any other series you’ll be judged in a similar manner, sure it’s his first test, yes the news will try the click bait angle but actions speak louder than words.

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19 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Somewhat agree but disagree too. You know pretty quickly if it was an ugly one or not, walking back to your mark & having a laugh when clearly the batter is not looking good at the other end, not a great look. If it was anyone else or any other series you’ll be judged in a similar manner, sure it’s his first test, yes the news will try the click bait angle but actions speak louder than words.

Oh ffs Prydz wind your neck in. I can't post link now but go and read the Australian article on Archer.

This laughing discussion is ridiculous l.

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37 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Oh ffs Prydz wind your neck in. I can't post link now but go and read the Australian article on Archer.

This laughing discussion is ridiculous l.

This is no laughing matter

:P

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Posted (edited)

Just putting this out there as a concept, The Australian Cricket team (actually more the media) are the Kopites of world cricket 

Edited by StringerBellend

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Yeah I have no problem with the England player's reaction.  Just because people are laughing doesn't mean that they are laughing at someone. Anyone ever laughed at a funeral or wake? Sometimes laughing is the only way people deal with weird or bad situations.

The booing, on the other hand...

what, we've already been over that? Must have missed it...

 

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48 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Just putting this out there as a concept, The Australian Cricket team (actually more the media) are the Kopites of world cricket 

I hope all your Kopite calling is a joke. Because you call the smurfs the Kopites when they claim to be the Man U of Australia. Doesn't quite work, does it.

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I for one am backing Laubaschangne (cant spell) , he has been on fire in the county championship first to 1000 runs this summer and taken wickets with his spin bowling (gives Lyon a rest during game or backup).

the way he handled himself yesterday must have made Smith proud, one to watch MUST be in the team for Headingly.

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1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

Just putting this out there as a concept, The Australian Cricket team (actually more the media) are the Kopites of world cricket 

....and the English team ( or their media ) are as pure as snow..........:ninja:

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1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

Just putting this out there as a concept, The Australian Cricket team (actually more the media) are the Kopites of world cricket 

I know you have a very very very low opinion of kopites, but surely that's below the belt to compare them with the media?!

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, sonar said:

....and the English team ( or their media ) are as pure as snow..........:ninja:

All media are trash.

Mind i will post that Australian newspaper article later, best piece i have seen on Archer.

The fact we are arguing about him tells me he has done an outstanding job first test up :D

Its the shot in the arm (get it huh huh huh...lol) this series badly needed.

Edited by Erimus

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Posted (edited)

It’s the Kopite reality distortion field 

Liverpool “man city are buying the league, while we are amazingly competing in some Roy or the Rovers way spending now money” despite that Liverpool spent over 190 million pounds last season 

sydney fans genuinely believe that they are the victims of a referee conspiracy, when they get more decisions than any other team 

While Australian cricket media.. need I go on 

Everyone else cheats 

how dare Stuart broad not walk (despite No Australian batsman does)

Mitchell Johnson bowling shirt pitched while close fielders sledge is fine 

Edited by StringerBellend

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6 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

 

how dare Stuart broad not walk (despite No Australian batsman does)

 

Adam Gilchrist 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, btron3000 said:

I hope all your Kopite calling is a joke. Because you call the smurfs the Kopites when they claim to be the Man U of Australia. Doesn't quite work, does it.

I’m entirely serious on the sydney bit

The main points of my arguement are 

- somehow think they are the victims of poor refereeing when they get every decision 

- media darlings 

- delusions of biggest club

- “best support”

- blame poor crowd behaviour on others

- General bellendery 

I am less serious on the Australian cricket bit

 

 

Edited by StringerBellend

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, sonar said:

Adam Gilchrist 

I’ll give you that, and I nearly typed since Adam Gilchrist

Edited by StringerBellend

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

I’ll give you that, and I nearly typed since Adam Gilchrist

I have no problem with batsmen that don't walk. The umpires are there for a reason....the players have to appeal to the umpire to get a decision and I learnt from many dodgy decisions that went against me when I played to let the umpire decide. The technology is there for a reason ( DRS ) but as shown in the last test it's not the end all and be all. Lyon had two LBW's turned down that were out. The umpire should of said we have a quick look. takes all of 30 secs. The players job is to appeal for a decision and it's the umpires that have the final say. Player or team reviews should be banned. Every decision should be reviewed as a matter of course.

Edited by sonar

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5 minutes ago, sonar said:

I have no problem with batsmen that don't walk. The umpires are there for a reason....the players have to appeal to the umpire to get a decision and I learnt from many dodgy decisions that went against me when I played to let the umpire decide. The technology is there for a reason ( DRS ) but as shown in the last test it's not the end all and be all. Lyon had two LBW's turned down that were out. The umpire should of said we have a quick look. takes all of 30 secs. The players job is to appeal for a decision and it's the umpires that have the final say. Player or team reviews should be banned. Every decision should be reviewed as a matter of course.

Me neither my problem is the “Kopite” like confected outrage 

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Smith out of third Test.

Well, there is one positive from this. Labuschagne clearly put his hand up but most people were struggling to work out how bringing him in to the team might work. Do they drop an opener and push Khawaja up? Or drop Khawaja? They'd probably have preferred to drop Wade but he got that hundred. And is one innings from Marnus enough to make any of those decisions?

Now, it's simple and they have just one question to answer around the batting lineup - does Bancroft go for Harris? I think yes, but I reckon they'll give him one more chance.

The positive is that everyone is playing for their spot, except probably Head, he's been consistent enough, and by the fourth Test we'll know who put their hand up and should have the best 6 playing.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

Smith out of third Test.

Well, there is one positive from this. Labuschagne clearly put his hand up but most people were struggling to work out how bringing him in to the team might work. Do they drop an opener and push Khawaja up? Or drop Khawaja? They'd probably have preferred to drop Wade but he got that hundred. And is one innings from Marnus enough to make any of those decisions?

Now, it's simple and they have just one question to answer around the batting lineup - does Bancroft go for Harris? I think yes, but I reckon they'll give him one more chance.

The positive is that everyone is playing for their spot, except probably Head, he's been consistent enough, and by the fourth Test we'll know who put their hand up and should have the best 6 playing.

Ashes test at my home county ground is always massive, for me Headingley is the best cricket ground in the world of course. The big sweeping western terrace full of drunken hools by early afternoon. I have been to that ground so many times, been in every stand and walked every street around it, I even know where you used to be able to get a squeeze via the wooden fence of a house that backed on to the stadium, not now it's been rebuilt though, that was in the days when the western terrace was made out of an ashes and dirt bank with wooden benches for seats. I have been in the stadium corporate area for training courses when I worked in Leeds, done it all.

Smith out gives England hope of course, and Archer has really ignited the series. I really can't call it, but I think it will be a cracker :good:

 

Edited by Erimus

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24 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Smith out gives England hope of course, and Archer has really ignited the series. I really can't call it, but I think it will be a cracker :good:

Not sure where we are gonna get enugh runs. Somebody - probably two people - have to stand up.

Gonna have to bowl well so be interesting to see who gets picked. Pattinson will come back, Cummins will be there, and then you have to decide between Siddle and Hazlewood to miss out. Siddle has been so consistent and so unlucky, but Hazlewood got us off to the good start. However, Hazlewood did nothing in the second innings and he's been a bit like that his whole career - real good and then not much. I think they can get from Pattinson what they get from him.

England really only have to work out the top order. They've sorted 5 - 11. Does Roy keep his spot? Does Root move back down to 4?

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1 minute ago, btron3000 said:

Not sure where we are gonna get enugh runs. Somebody - probably two people - have to stand up.

Gonna have to bowl well so be interesting to see who gets picked. Pattinson will come back, Cummins will be there, and then you have to decide between Siddle and Hazlewood to miss out. Siddle has been so consistent and so unlucky, but Hazlewood got us off to the good start. However, Hazlewood did nothing in the second innings and he's been a bit like that his whole career - real good and then not much. I think they can get from Pattinson what they get from him.

England really only have to work out the top order. They've sorted 5 - 11. Does Roy keep his spot? Does Root move back down to 4?

Roy needs to either go, or possibly move down the order, he is so not an opening batsman. Root is probably ok where he is, I am not sure his lack of form is down to his placing. Having Roy throwing his wicket away isn't helping Root.

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20 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Roy needs to either go, or possibly move down the order, he is so not an opening batsman. Root is probably ok where he is, I am not sure his lack of form is down to his placing. Having Roy throwing his wicket away isn't helping Root.

Agree about Roy, but where can you put him in the order? If he's gonna succeed in Tests, he's gonna do it at 6. But Buttler and Stokes are in the right spots. You don't want to screw with that. So the only option really is 4. Not sure about that, but swapping him and Denly is the simplest option (unless they bring in another opener of course!).

I think that the Aussies love having Root come in at 3. Get someone early and you're into him. And he clearly prefers 4. But it does start getting complicated to sort that out. Could bring in a 3 and move him down, and possibly move Denly to opener. Could just swap him and Denly, but having Denly bat at 3 is what they were trying to avoid in the first place.

Actually, thinking about this potential batting order, there is an argument for bringing in Pattinson for Siddle. That would mean that Cummins could move to first change, and potentially be coming in to bowl to numbers 3 and 4 (hopefully 5!).  Having Cummins come in after initial inroads are made gives Australia a much better chance of getting through the middle order cheaply.

Man this (English) summer of cricket has been soooo good. Can't wait for Thursday.

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Unless the Aus top 5 get runs we won't be winning anything. With Smith out it is even more imperative that Warner,Bancroft and Kawaja,Head ,Wade get runs. We have the bowling but our batting is woeful. Our batting stats after two Tests...........our two openers avg 11 and 4.5. 

Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
SPD Smith 2 3 0 378 144 126.00 587 64.39 2 1 0 44 2
M Labuschagne 1 1 0 59 59 59.00 100 59.00 0 1 0 8 0
JL Pattinson 1 2 1 47 47* 47.00 50 94.00 0 0 1 2 4
TM Head 2 4 1 135 51 45.00 288 46.87 0 1 0 21 0
MS Wade 2 4 0 118 110 29.50 198 59.59 1 0 0 18 0
PM Siddle 2 2 0 53 44 26.50 116 45.68 0 0 0 5 0
PJ Cummins 2 4 2 52 26* 26.00 140 37.14 0 0 0 6 0
UT Khawaja 2 4 0 91 40 22.75 133 68.42 0 0 0 12 0
NM Lyon 2 2 1 18 12* 18.00 43 41.86 0 0 0 3 0
TD Paine 2 4 0 66 34 16.50 145 45.51 0 0 0 5 1
CT Bancroft 2 4 0 44 16 11.00 162 27.16 0 0 0 6 0
DA Warner 2 4 0 18 8 4.50 50 36.00 0 0 0 3 0
JR Hazlewood 1 1 1 3 3* - 4 75.00 0 0 0 0 0

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Batting Comparison....Eng

Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
BA Stokes 2 4 1 184 115* 61.33 311 59.16 1 1 0 23 3
RJ Burns 2 4 0 226 133 56.50 524 43.12 1 1 0 28 0
CR Woakes 2 3 1 106 37* 53.00 211 50.23 0 0 0 11 2
JM Bairstow 2 4 1 96 52 32.00 175 54.85 0 1 0 10 2
JE Root 2 4 0 99 57 24.75 197 50.25 0 1 1 12 0
JL Denly 2 4 0 85 30 21.25 170 50.00 0 0 0 13 0
SCJ Broad 2 3 0 40 29 13.33 83 48.19 0 0 1 4 0
JC Buttler 2 4 0 49 31 12.25 166 29.51 0 0 0 5 0
JC Archer 1 1 0 12 12 12.00 20 60.00 0 0 0 2 0
JJ Roy 2 4 0 40 28 10.00 96 41.66 0 0 1 6 0
JM Anderson 1 2 1 7 4* 7.00 28 25.00 0 0 0 1 0
MM Ali 1 2 0 4 4 2.00 33 12.12 0 0 1 0 0
MJ Leach 1 1 1 6 6* - 9 66.66 0 0 0 1 0

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We all set to go again?  Going to be a stunner from the true home of cricket. No better sight in workd cricket than a packed out Headingley.

I will have to leave you hooligans to it over the weekend as off away to Canberra to see the impressionist exhibition...im leaving Sonar in charge.

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5 minutes ago, Erimus said:

We all set to go again?  Going to be a stunner from the true home of cricket. No better sight in workd cricket than a packed out Headingley.

I will have to leave you hooligans to it over the weekend as off away to Canberra to see the impressionist exhibition...im leaving Sonar in charge.

He has declined the invitation

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48 minutes ago, Erimus said:

We all set to go again?  Going to be a stunner from the true home of cricket. No better sight in workd cricket than a packed out Headingley.

I will have to leave you hooligans to it over the weekend as off away to Canberra to see the impressionist exhibition...im leaving Sonar in charge.

Enjoy your weekend mate.

This is going to be a cracker of a test match. Headingly is a great venue and has provided some fantastic matches in the past. Will be interesting to see what sort of pitch it offers up, but indeed, as usual, the winner of the toss should be in the box seat from day 1.

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57 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Enjoy your weekend mate.

This is going to be a cracker of a test match. Headingly is a great venue and has provided some fantastic matches in the past. Will be interesting to see what sort of pitch it offers up, but indeed, as usual, the winner of the toss should be in the box seat from day 1.

Don Bradman scored 334 in 1930

And of course the Botham / Willis test match in 1981 when England won after following on.

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