Amateur Association Football

[Unlimited]

10 hours ago, Wanderboy said:

But it wasn't a direct assertion towards the referee.

Every kid swears on the field. Normally in frustration.

 

So, if he said "I didn't do anything" instead of saying "I didn't do "s***" It makes a difference? Come on??? It's all in the context, and in this case the context was NOT directed towards the referee. Get a grip.

Technically it's dissent though - and could be worth a booking

Whether this player is saying it to themselves or to the referee in an accusing manner, what the player is saying by actually verbalising "I didn't do s***" is "I have done nothing wrong, this referee made a wrong decision, and consciously or unconsciously, I am letting the other players know that this refereeing decision is not correct"

This degrades the respect and the trust the players have in the referee to control the game, because next contentious foul, they'll think the referee got it wrong again

That's the technical perspective, which sometimes differs from the game perspective

 

Personally, if I was refereeing that game, I would've just told the player off and basically said, "I know you're upset, but the way I saw it, you tripped the other player. I don't appreciate the language, I don't want to hear it anymore. Focus on the game, it's just a free kick, etc."

If he was being accusatory - and this is where judgement comes into play - I'd say something like "At the start of the game I asked you all to respect the decisions I made. What you said there was not respectful. I don't appreciate the tone you took, or the language - I don't want to hear that word anymore. Question me respectfully? Fine. What you did there? Not fine. It's dissent, so it's a yellow card"

Players want to play the game, so if you're taking away from their game time because you're lecturing one of their players about how to behave, you can be sure that his teammates will get him to pull his head in

And the opposition will know that you don't tolerate that sort of thing. Talking to the players is a better strategy in controlling the game than being card-happy

 

And if I was concerned about swearing, I'd then call the two team captains over and let them know that I don't want to hear any swearing, and that any more swearing will be dealt with further. Again, it's to take time out of the game to make a point to the players about behaviour I accept and not accept

 

9 hours ago, Wanderboy said:

I couldn't agree more.

I'd like to reiterate one important point you made. And that is the information that I have forwarded in my comments. It's all true and correct with regards the situation. I would never take on a case like this at a tribunal unless I thought we a solid case and in this situation I believe we do. However, surely it comes down to one man's word against another? I'll could put my player's case forward yet the referee who made the decision would surely have to be there and if he said he felt he was personally abused, we wouldn't have a case.

That is unless the tribunal take into account the evidence I could gather from our opposition who also said they would back our player up and who also agreed the ref was a ****wit and who were also unhappy with his performance and said that this decision was wrong.

For what it's worth, we lost 6-1. The score line is irrelevant to this referee's performance.

In my association, we have a designated referee representative who will basically back the referee 100% at the tribunal

 

35 minutes ago, ZachMercer said:

Here's an odd question probably reserved for someone with ref experience. My son's team finished runner up in the grand final of a kanga cup match recently held in canberra. After an extra time deadlock the game came down to penalty shots. When the opposition lined up the order of shot takers they had their goalie (biggest kid on their side) line up as 2nd or 3rd taker. I always thought that a goalie was able to take a penalty shot, but not till every other elected player had had theirs, i.e. last? Naturally the goalie scored the winning penalty. Please note this was U9.

This brings me back to that Club World Cup game

Bouzanis' awesome penalty that could've won it for us 4-3 but noooooooo

[lloydy136]

10 hours ago, hughsey said:

Good move. Very rarely will you get anywhere with an appeal when it comes to swearing. 

I helped out with the U6 and U7's drills and then during their little games the other week and it left me stunned. I know why we aren't winning any world cups soon... it was organised chaos. The kids themselves aren't necessarily bad, it's the structure (or lack of). Fair play to them for volunteering but most of the parents have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Half the kids are wearing their shin pads on the outside of their socks which I found symbolic of the whole fiasco... this business of not officially keeping score is ridiculous because A) there is no urgency to the way the games are run and B) the kids are keeping the score and know exactly who and how many goals have been scored. We aren't fooling anyone there. Plus they'll all be expecting a medal or trophy at the end of the season, for achieving what? Competition is what makes sport sport, you need to build that early and establish a winning mentality in the way they play the game. 

A few of the teams I worked with I asked the kids what position they were playing (very basic, either a forward or a back) and half of them had no idea what that even was because the games are just a ball dropped in the middle of the field and it's free for all. 

You've got kids scoring own goals with no idea what way they're running and kids just belting the crap out of the ball everytime it comes near them. What do they get? A round of applause and told how wonderful they are. Let's not crucify them but a bit of constructive feedback or even just general advice and teaching would be good. 

I know these kids are here to have fun but it's honestly a joke. I don't remember things being like this when I was that age. To me it's just a sign of the times really, the PC age where we can't possibly offend anyone so we fluff around. 

You can't force these parents who are volunteering to sit a coaching course but at such a crucial time in a child's skill development, there needs to be more structure and guidance. I dunno how we do that but it's not my job to figure it out. Perhaps each age group should have 1-2 curriculum supervisors who's job is to promote and implement a strategy as well as offering guidance to parents who may be none the wiser, in running a team. 

possibly unpopular opinion but I think the structure for 6/7s is a big improvement on what it was.

when I was that age we played on half fields (much bigger than currently) and it was kick/chase and the fastest/biggest kid always got the ball and scored. score was kept and tables existed so many coaches focused on winning. what it meant was one or two kids did everything and the rest of us stood and watched. it doesn't develop footballers, just rewards athletes and turns other kids away from the game.

what we have now - small field, four a side and no tables - is a big improvement imo. all kids get a kick and have a much better chance of developing skills and having fun and wanting to stick with it. my son is a good example - not blessed with great speed (like his old man lol) but the small sided stuff kept him involved and developed his skills and by no means is he a world beater but he is a good player at a high level of grass roots football and will probably be involved with the game for the rest of his life. I wonder given the other options/distractions that are around for kids today if he had of come through the system that I did whether he would have stuck with it.

Absolutely agree with you on the coaching thing though - its mandatory in our association to have a grassroots coaching certificate to take on a team but you still see some rugby league type dads with no idea out there - which is a concern. 100% agree on having a coordinator for the small sided stuff. At my club its me, the head of coaching and the technical director we set the guidelines for coaches, run demonstration sessions,advanced skill squads etc. we are lucky to have so many keen volunteers though who know a bit about the game.

Edited July 22, 2017 by lloydy136

[Edinburgh]

When my Dad and I coached and managed u6 and u7 they played on full size fields!

[lloydy136]

on wanderboy's scenario with the referee I wouldn't even consider giving a kid a red card for that unless it was VERY loud and aggressive.

its a quick chat to explain decision and a reminder to be respectful and watch language and get on with the game.

in other comedy refereeing news had a situation yesterday in lloydy jr game - we were on the counter and striker cuts inside centre back. centreback throws his leg out, our striker stumbles but keeps going and is through one on one with the keeper. ref runs in and gives the foul and myself and co-coach both say OK pen (its was at least a metre inside the box). Instead ref runs over and gives a direct free kick but places the ball just inside the area! My other coach (who is a fairly cranky welshmen at the best of times) loses it and runs down the sideline yelling and flapping his arms around. Ref threatens to send him away. I pretty much had to go and carry him back to the technical area - much to the amusement of our parents. scenes.

Edited July 22, 2017 by lloydy136

[Wanderboy]

27 minutes ago, Unlimited said:

Technically it's dissent though - and could be worth a booking

Whether this player is saying it to themselves or to the referee in an accusing manner, what the player is saying by actually verbalising "I didn't do s***" is "I have done nothing wrong, this referee made a wrong decision, and consciously or unconsciously, I am letting the other players know that this refereeing decision is not correct"

This degrades the respect and the trust the players have in the referee to control the game, because next contentious foul, they'll think the referee got it wrong again

That's the technical perspective, which sometimes differs from the game perspective

 

Personally, if I was refereeing that game, I would've just told the player off and basically said, "I know you're upset, but the way I saw it, you tripped the other player. I don't appreciate the language, I don't want to hear it anymore. Focus on the game, it's just a free kick, etc."

If he was being accusatory - and this is where judgement comes into play - I'd say something like "At the start of the game I asked you all to respect the decisions I made. What you said there was not respectful. I don't appreciate the tone you took, or the language - I don't want to hear that word anymore. Question me respectfully? Fine. What you did there? Not fine. It's dissent, so it's a yellow card"

Players want to play the game, so if you're taking away from their game time because you're lecturing one of their players about how to behave, you can be sure that his teammates will get him to pull his head in

And the opposition will know that you don't tolerate that sort of thing. Talking to the players is a better strategy in controlling the game than being card-happy

 

And if I was concerned about swearing, I'd then call the two team captains over and let them know that I don't want to hear any swearing, and that any more swearing will be dealt with further. Again, it's to take time out of the game to make a point to the players about behaviour I accept and not accept

 

In my association, we have a designated referee representative who will basically back the referee 100% at the tribunal

 

This brings me back to that Club World Cup game

Bouzanis' awesome penalty that could've won it for us 4-3 but noooooooo

I agree with everything you have said in regards to my son's game yesterday and refereeing in general.

That is the logical approach and all good referees approach a game in this manner. They also garner much more respect from the players this way.

Yesterdays douche bag has a lot to learn and is only making his own job as a ref more difficult by taking the approach he is.

[Wanderboy]

19 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

on wanderboy's scenario with the referee I wouldn't even consider giving a kid a red card for that unless it was VERY loud and aggressive.

 

Which it wasn't.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Wanderboy

[ColdRock]

Small field games are a revelation in my opinion, when I was growing up kids would give up the offside trap midway through the first half if an opponent played long balls. It was a ridiculous amount of running.

Then while playing all age we faced a semi pro team (Crookwell I think) in a cup game. Their fitness and stride matched the size of the field, something not easy to see in A League matches where the teams are evenly matched.

Against a weaker team they were able to make small sized passes and manoeuvres on a full sized field at small sized pace. It was like a giant game of indoor. The desire to move into space for a pass would be a much better motivation to run and improve fitness for kids than chasing a zippy striker or misshit 50/50 long ball.

This was clear to see by the gulf in fitness and speed between the two sides in our game

[Paul01]

17 hours ago, hughsey said:

Good move. Very rarely will you get anywhere with an appeal when it comes to swearing. 

I helped out with the U6 and U7's drills and then during their little games the other week and it left me stunned. I know why we aren't winning any world cups soon... it was organised chaos. The kids themselves aren't necessarily bad, it's the structure (or lack of). Fair play to them for volunteering but most of the parents have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Half the kids are wearing their shin pads on the outside of their socks which I found symbolic of the whole fiasco... this business of not officially keeping score is ridiculous because A) there is no urgency to the way the games are run and B) the kids are keeping the score and know exactly who and how many goals have been scored. We aren't fooling anyone there. Plus they'll all be expecting a medal or trophy at the end of the season, for achieving what? Competition is what makes sport sport, you need to build that early and establish a winning mentality in the way they play the game. 

A few of the teams I worked with I asked the kids what position they were playing (very basic, either a forward or a back) and half of them had no idea what that even was because the games are just a ball dropped in the middle of the field and it's free for all. 

You've got kids scoring own goals with no idea what way they're running and kids just belting the crap out of the ball everytime it comes near them. What do they get? A round of applause and told how wonderful they are. Let's not crucify them but a bit of constructive feedback or even just general advice and teaching would be good. 

I know these kids are here to have fun but it's honestly a joke. I don't remember things being like this when I was that age. To me it's just a sign of the times really, the PC age where we can't possibly offend anyone so we fluff around. 

You can't force these parents who are volunteering to sit a coaching course but at such a crucial time in a child's skill development, there needs to be more structure and guidance. I dunno how we do that but it's not my job to figure it out. Perhaps each age group should have 1-2 curriculum supervisors who's job is to promote and implement a strategy as well as offering guidance to parents who may be none the wiser, in running a team. 

Have to agree on coaches unless the coach happens to be a someone a former player.

i will give you my example, for what's worth.

I had to coach my youngest son's team in u9s two years ago as no one else would take them. Whilst I have followed the game, I have never played. Some of the kids I had that year (post Asian Cup) had never played, could kick a ball in one case, didn't know how throw in, take a corner or goal keep. Never the less, we won a few games, drew a few games, and lost a few. The only formal drills that anyone got was goalkeeping as my eldest son had been to Jim Fraser's Academy for a few camps. The other u9 team in our club won every game.

the next season for u10s, we got a coach (ex-state league player) and his son playing up a year. The kids got the drills they needed. I returned to my natural habitat of refereeing and managing (team communicator).

this season for u11s, we lost our coach and player due to family reasons. It turned out that I (still inadequate as a coach), had to coach them.  I do the best I can with them with a focus on giving equal time to all. I also make sure we have a defined formation (3-3-2). The kids have done me proud as they have not lost a game and got re-graded up in Round 10. They have only lost one half where there was a small girl, skilful though, who came up the boys elbows and was getting accidental fouls. So I moved our only girl, a terrier, to man-mark the girl and the game changed with opposition girl not being fouled but marked out of the game. The game changed where we went from 1-2 down to a 4-2 hard fought win. We have 4 rounds left.

if the team stays together, I will probably have to coach them again but will do a coaches course.

[SomeGuy1977]

On 22 July 2017 at 6:28 PM, Wanderboy said:

I'm always very understanding of referees. It's an absolutely thankless task and it's one job I would never take on. Ever! I have sympathy for them if they make a mistake. They are only human after all. I'm the manager of my son's team and we've had good and not so good all season. After every game, I shake the referees hand and thank him/her for their effort, whether good or indifferent.

 

Plenty has been  said on what happened. It sounds like a pretty ordinary day at the office to say the least. I hope though, this doesn't change your overall approach and thinking. What youve said is exactly what too many coaches forget. There's an expectation of zero mistakes from officials which is just crazy.

When a player makes a mistake, they will (usually) have teammates pick them up. When a ref makes a bad call, they have nowhere to hide. Heck, even when they make the right call, there's usually someone who feels obliged to let you know you're wrong. 

im not defending the ref in your game. From what you've described it doesn't sound great. I would suggest you do raise it through your club and association. The ref sounds like he needs more training and experience. If they don't learn, the same mistakes will keep getting made, and someone else will be on the receiving end, and another coach will be pissed, and before you know it, confidence and respect for officials is diminished. 

 

[Wanderboy]

30 minutes ago, SomeGuy1977 said:

Plenty has been  said on what happened. It sounds like a pretty ordinary day at the office to say the least. I hope though, this doesn't change your overall approach and thinking. What youve said is exactly what too many coaches forget. There's an expectation of zero mistakes from officials which is just crazy.

When a player makes a mistake, they will (usually) have teammates pick them up. When a ref makes a bad call, they have nowhere to hide. Heck, even when they make the right call, there's usually someone who feels obliged to let you know you're wrong. 

im not defending the ref in your game. From what you've described it doesn't sound great. I would suggest you do raise it through your club and association. The ref sounds like he needs more training and experience. If they don't learn, the same mistakes will keep getting made, and someone else will be on the receiving end, and another coach will be pissed, and before you know it, confidence and respect for officials is diminished. 

 

I've decided to go down the path  you have suggested. The parents of the boy involved are quite upset and I don't blame them.

Therefore, I've spent much time today on email and the phone dealing with this issue.

If nothing else, this particular referee needs to be educated further and in my honest opinion, just needs to take a step backwards in his approach to the game. 

I will certainly be suggesting such an approach if I'm called before the judiciary.

[Paul01]

Hi Wanderboy

In my association we actually have a referee feedback form. Does your association have that kind of feedback form? 

Best if you find out how your local referees branch takes feedback.

I have had one formal assessment every year. Also, i got an informal comment on the mobile relating to a specific interpretation of a certain specific ruling I was giving about a month ago based on feedback from a player. 

Good luck.

 

[MadKaw]

My oldest boy got sent of for swearing a few weeks ago. He got kicked in the leg, pretty hard and obvious hurt him as he said fu$k in a yell of pain as he went down. He needed treatment to his leg and as he laid there in pain he got a 2nd yellow and was sent of - had to be carried. His first yellow was for questioning why a decision was given, nothing offensive just asking why (he is the captain). Yeh he probly deserved the 2nd yellow and we weren't impressed by his language either but a lot worse goes on.

I don't believe sh*t should be considered offensive, fu*k yes but not sh*t....... but I have very low moral values.. (my 15 year old swears, I'm a bad parent) :-)

 

[GK21]

My 1 year old is learning to talk, she is trying to say cake. it doesnt sound like cake. .

 

she will probably get sent off, if she was old enough to play

[StringerBellend]

Enough of kids, we won on the weekend, beat a team who are in the semi finals and apparently aren't drinking until after finals.

They were a bit upset by getting beat by a bunch of old blokes

Thats probably my last game of all age (I am away for last game of season) belatedly I think we will play over 35s next year.

in kids news my 3 year old had her first session of Socca Joeys was ace to watch her 

Edited July 24, 2017 by StringerBellend

[Unlimited]

9 hours ago, MadKaw said:

My oldest boy got sent of for swearing a few weeks ago. He got kicked in the leg, pretty hard and obvious hurt him as he said fu$k in a yell of pain as he went down. He needed treatment to his leg and as he laid there in pain he got a 2nd yellow and was sent of - had to be carried. His first yellow was for questioning why a decision was given, nothing offensive just asking why (he is the captain). Yeh he probly deserved the 2nd yellow and we weren't impressed by his language either but a lot worse goes on.

I don't believe sh*t should be considered offensive, fu*k yes but not sh*t....... but I have very low moral values.. (my 15 year old swears, I'm a bad parent) :-)

 

I remember at one of our referees meetings, one of the facilitators heard of something similar: player goes down and screams profanities in pain 

difference is that the referee gave him a red card for swearing... standing outside the ambulance while the injured player was being wheeled in

 

We all laughed but he said it's true and that we should use common sense

[mltezr]

Ahhhh good old bdsfa at it again.

We started off with 10 teams in the comp. First two rounds were washed out but obviously made up again. After round 10 eastern creek pulls out of the comp all together (they were a very poor team). Only one team has played them twice. So instead of the bdsfa just awarding every team 3 points when they were supposed to play eastern creek, they now award it as a bye (and recieve no points). One team played them twice already (recieving 6 points), 8 teams played them once (recieiving 3 points) and one team hasnt played them at all (recieving 0 points). after a lot of email and trying to explain to the bdsfa how is this fair, and even outlining two possible solutions:
1. the team that has played eastern creek twice, will have their last result changed into a bye

2. simply award 3 points for the bye instead of zero.

 

The bdsfa have come up with this great solution. At the end of the season they will divide the total points by 17 (the games we have played), find out how many points we earnt per game, then add this instead of the bye. Now icompman doesnt have the technology to update this. so at the end of the season 9 of 10 teams will recieve points. So the table will not be true until the end of the season and some teams can finish on 50.7453 points. 

[Taurus]

Dropkicks. Just void all the results that involved EC & the resultant table will be a true indication of the games played between the remaining 9 clubs. 

[Paul01]

8 minutes ago, mltezr said:

Ahhhh good old bdsfa at it again.

We started off with 10 teams in the comp. First two rounds were washed out but obviously made up again. After round 10 eastern creek pulls out of the comp all together (they were a very poor team). Only one team has played them twice. So instead of the bdsfa just awarding every team 3 points when they were supposed to play eastern creek, they now award it as a bye (and recieve no points). One team played them twice already (recieving 6 points), 8 teams played them once (recieiving 3 points) and one team hasnt played them at all (recieving 0 points). after a lot of email and trying to explain to the bdsfa how is this fair, and even outlining two possible solutions:
1. the team that has played eastern creek twice, will have their last result changed into a bye

2. simply award 3 points for the bye instead of zero.

 

The bdsfa have come up with this great solution. At the end of the season they will divide the total points by 17 (the games we have played), find out how many points we earnt per game, then add this instead of the bye. Now icompman doesnt have the technology to update this. so at the end of the season 9 of 10 teams will recieve points. So the table will not be true until the end of the season and some teams can finish on 50.7453 points. 

Don't they have points adjust in the table? That happens in my association if you field an illegal player from a higher division. 

[mltezr]

48 minutes ago, Taurus said:

Dropkicks. Just void all the results that involved EC & the resultant table will be a true indication of the games played between the remaining 9 clubs. 

yep. too much sense for the bdsfa. 

[Prydzopolis]

On 22/07/2017 at 9:19 PM, Wanderboy said:

Prydz,

I've been asking a lot of people a for a lot of advice tonight and the general feeling is that it would be pointless to appeal.

I've decided to let it go, and have informed the relevant player's parent's of my decision.

I'm sorry but the referee today would not be feeling bad about his performance. He was one of those wankers that wanted to be the centre of attention. There's not many of them out there, but there are a few.

Grade was 16/1's.

 

On 22/07/2017 at 10:01 PM, Wanderboy said:

Shame our ref today didn't lose his pen because instead of handing it back to him, I may have inserted it somewhere.

 

On 22/07/2017 at 10:20 PM, Wanderboy said:

But it wasn't a direct assertion towards the referee.

Every kid swears on the field. Normally in frustration.

So, if he said "I didn't do anything" instead of saying "I didn't do "s***" It makes a difference? Come on??? It's all in the context, and in this case the context was NOT directed towards the referee. Get a grip.

 

On 22/07/2017 at 10:26 PM, Wanderboy said:

I've decided not to follow this issue up and our player will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. Whether they were appropriate has already been decided. It will cost our club $$ to appeal. I'm not going down that path.

As I said before, the ref was a ****wit. With the season almost over, we've had a pretty good run with good ref's. It ain't worth pursuing any further, although I will certainly put in a report to my club and hope that this particular referee is given matches in future in line with his ability to make judgemental calls that ascertain to his ability. Those games would be matches far below this age group.

Just a general follow up to your points:

- Unlimited has hit the nail on the head with most/all points. Too bad he can't replicate his refereeing skills/ability when it comes to women  

- My comment in regards to think of the referee was a more comment in general. To be honest, none of us were there and you were the only one who was the best judge of the referee on the day. It seems to us he sounds like a prick but I think you've been a bit kind because it feels like you've held back a bit. We need more referees and need to encourage more people to referee, perhaps not more people like this bloke  . My comment on how he was feeling was more of a reflection of how I have felt after I knew I had a poor game, was pushed around on the field by players and blasted on the sideline by anyone in earshot. 

- In regards to the cheeky appeal. I know you wouldn't have won it and the time/effort/money gone into it wouldn't have been worth it. Sometimes I feel that appealing decisions like this are just worth it to highlight just how ridiculous the situation leading to the send off was to the tribunal. Emails/feedback is received every week, for low grade referees like this bloke who will probably never advance too far in his career, I don't know how far it would go. The amount of time I would write up a feedback on the referees performance, especially when you'd lose by 1 or you had a player sent off in the game for a ridiculous reason.

Let me give you an example. Last season, elimination final. Our team was down 0-1 with 30mins to go and we were pushing hard for a goal. Our sweeper had pushed up for a corner and then we got caught on the counter. He makes a run to get back and makes a tackle from behind to get the ball. Whether it was a yellow or not was a harsh call (referee was in a horrible position), he slid in around the players legs to get the ball and made the tackle. The fact that the foul was called or that a yellow was given was not an issue, it was a judgement call by the referee. He then shouts "come on, I got the ball", yellow card for dissent. Two yellows and he was off. He then shouts "Are you ******* kidding me?" Shown straight red. Ends up getting four weeks, missing the finals for our firsts team. We appealed it, why? Would it get over turned? No, but just to highlight the ridiculous nature of how and why the player was sent off especially in such a tight and important game. Suffice to say he was only a fourth official the following week at the finals.

- Personally on swearing. If a guy gets kicked and swears in pain or anguish to give a card for that is just ridiculous. No common sense. In regards to swearing in frustration on the field, I warn first at the language and then proceed to cards if things start getting out of hand. Generally, after I warn a player than the next will be a yellow they usually don't do it again.

On 22/07/2017 at 11:23 PM, hughsey said:

Good move. Very rarely will you get anywhere with an appeal when it comes to swearing. 

I helped out with the U6 and U7's drills and then during their little games the other week and it left me stunned. I know why we aren't winning any world cups soon... it was organised chaos. The kids themselves aren't necessarily bad, it's the structure (or lack of). Fair play to them for volunteering but most of the parents have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Half the kids are wearing their shin pads on the outside of their socks which I found symbolic of the whole fiasco... this business of not officially keeping score is ridiculous because A) there is no urgency to the way the games are run and B) the kids are keeping the score and know exactly who and how many goals have been scored. We aren't fooling anyone there. Plus they'll all be expecting a medal or trophy at the end of the season, for achieving what? Competition is what makes sport sport, you need to build that early and establish a winning mentality in the way they play the game. 

A few of the teams I worked with I asked the kids what position they were playing (very basic, either a forward or a back) and half of them had no idea what that even was because the games are just a ball dropped in the middle of the field and it's free for all. 

You've got kids scoring own goals with no idea what way they're running and kids just belting the crap out of the ball everytime it comes near them. What do they get? A round of applause and told how wonderful they are. Let's not crucify them but a bit of constructive feedback or even just general advice and teaching would be good. 

I know these kids are here to have fun but it's honestly a joke. I don't remember things being like this when I was that age. To me it's just a sign of the times really, the PC age where we can't possibly offend anyone so we fluff around. 

You can't force these parents who are volunteering to sit a coaching course but at such a crucial time in a child's skill development, there needs to be more structure and guidance. I dunno how we do that but it's not my job to figure it out. Perhaps each age group should have 1-2 curriculum supervisors who's job is to promote and implement a strategy as well as offering guidance to parents who may be none the wiser, in running a team. 

In the churches competition:

- Old school, goals count, mini for 6/7's, 8-10's larger field normal rules, 11/12's full field.
- Coaches are not trained (not even the community coaching courses), too many kick and chase, everyone gets involved and not too many kids losing interest
- No focus on skills or anything of the sort, only because the coaching isn't there. Some teams have coaches that have/are playing football and there teams play a better brand of football but still a lot to left to be desired
- I have been helping out with the refereeing because they have been short but have stopped or limited my involvement his year ($5-$15 per game is just not worth it and rather save my legs for seniors especially if I get a decent grade game). The way I referee I help out with the technical side of the game, teaching goal keepers about what they can and can't do, how to throw in, how to kick off, why a foul was given, what players can and can't do on the field. I must admit that it is difficult to change mindset from refereeing juniors to seniors.
- Got to laugh at some of the parents "Go out there and get the opposition", "If they have the ball, go in hard and take them out", "tackle harder, you were too soft on them" comments of the like for young kids  

I think it is better this way but only if the coaching is up to standard. Not enough coaches have enough background or idea. Most kids are there as a child minding service for a few hours which is the most disappointing aspect of it all.

On 23/07/2017 at 11:46 PM, Wanderboy said:

I've decided to go down the path  you have suggested. The parents of the boy involved are quite upset and I don't blame them.

Therefore, I've spent much time today on email and the phone dealing with this issue.

If nothing else, this particular referee needs to be educated further and in my honest opinion, just needs to take a step backwards in his approach to the game. 

I will certainly be suggesting such an approach if I'm called before the judiciary.

So you ended up appealing then?

[Edinburgh]

At a recent match where my son plays the referee gave out 14 yellows and 2 or 3 reds.  No reason for most of them, he did his best to ruin an otherwise good game of football.  I spoke to one of the red carded opposition players as he left the field saying bad luck.  He had received a yellow for a tackle and he told me as play re-started the ref blew his whistle right next to the player's ear and he swore with surprise and pain!  You guessed it a second yellow for dissent or foul language and he's off.

[SomeGuy1977]

Hearing stories of players being given a yellow after swearing at an official does my head in. 

[Unlimited]

5 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

Just a general follow up to your points:

- Unlimited has hit the nail on the head with most/all points. Too bad he can't replicate his refereeing skills/ability when it comes to women

I'm good with the theory, when it comes to practice... ehhhhh not so much

[Wanderboy]

6 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

 

So you ended up appealing then?

In the end, no.

I submitted my very detailed match report (several times mentioning what a difficult job referees have and I accept that they at times make mistakes)At no stage did I say anything about what a dick this guy was (and yes, Prydz, I was holding back in my comments here). I kept it all factual.

I also submitted a match report from the opposition manager who very kindly offered to help after seeing the injustice in the decision. I was also put under a lot of pressure from the boys mother (who could talk the froth off a beer) to appeal.

I then relied on the advice of our club president, who, after reviewing all the information supplied, came back to me with logical reasons which I had already considered)  why an appeal would be fruitless. He did offer to go ahead with the appeal if we wanted and stated that the club would be happy to pay the $100 fee but in his personal opinion, the chance of success would be highly unlikely.

I explained this to the boy's mother and she was still determined to go through with the appeal. I then asked her to speak personally to the club president and get back to me. I've heard nothing since.

Just as an aside, the lad in question has played the game in the right spirit all season. He is not a dirty, vindictive or cheating type player. His family is also lovely and been happy to help out on team duties  on several occasions. It's been a pleasure to manage him and his family this season.

I can understand why they were upset (two absolutely appalling decisions within 15 seconds) but such are the perils of playing competitive sport.

I did all I could for the lad and his family, and a great deal of time, but ultimately relied on the advice of those more experienced than me in these matters.

[smp]

On 23 July 2017 at 9:23 AM, lloydy136 said:

possibly unpopular opinion but I think the structure for 6/7s is a big improvement on what it was.

when I was that age we played on half fields (much bigger than currently) and it was kick/chase and the fastest/biggest kid always got the ball and scored. score was kept and tables existed so many coaches focused on winning. what it meant was one or two kids did everything and the rest of us stood and watched. it doesn't develop footballers, just rewards athletes and turns other kids away from the game.

what we have now - small field, four a side and no tables - is a big improvement imo. all kids get a kick and have a much better chance of developing skills and having fun and wanting to stick with it. my son is a good example - not blessed with great speed (like his old man lol) but the small sided stuff kept him involved and developed his skills and by no means is he a world beater but he is a good player at a high level of grass roots football and will probably be involved with the game for the rest of his life. I wonder given the other options/distractions that are around for kids today if he had of come through the system that I did whether he would have stuck with it.

Absolutely agree with you on the coaching thing though - its mandatory in our association to have a grassroots coaching certificate to take on a team but you still see some rugby league type dads with no idea out there - which is a concern. 100% agree on having a coordinator for the small sided stuff. At my club its me, the head of coaching and the technical director we set the guidelines for coaches, run demonstration sessions,advanced skill squads etc. we are lucky to have so many keen volunteers though who know a bit about the game.

I'm with Lloyd on this one (disclaimer: I coach my son's U5 team). Small-sided football is a massive improvement on what I played growing up in Brisbane in the 80s. For a start, it didn't even begin until U7 then where you had tha classic situation of all the kids running around in a scrim chasing the ball etc. positions started in U8, and you got pigeonholed real early (I spent my entire U8 season as a goalkeeper who barely touched the ball). I can count on one hand the amount of games I played outside of defense between the ages of 9 and 17. I'm a poorer player because of it because I never had the opportunity to experience and learn the skills for other positions. 

I look at my U5 team and apart from my son there's not a lot of innate football understanding. There's no culture of pick up games down the park, and I don't think any of the other kids go see regular football outside their siblings' games. it takes time to bring them into the fold, and it takes sooooo much more patience to work with them at this age (more than I thought I had). 

Many of of these kids are playing football because their parents see it as a safe and fun environment for their kids to get active and learn teamwork and sharing. We've got to encourage first and teach second or they don't come back at that age. Once they hit U8 and goalkeepers are introduced, that's when the skills and knowledge can really start to be worked on. 

If there's a problem with Australian football, I don't think it's at the grassroots level personally. I think it's a bit further up the chain. 

One thing I do agree with though is that the more qualified coaches the better, and the FFA should be doing more to make these courses cheaper and more accessible across all qualification levels from Grassroots right up to A/B/C ticket level. 

[Prydzopolis]

Wanderboy,

You should be applauded the way you approached the situation. Mature, considered and sensibly in a situation than deserved the complete opposite. This is the reason I hate getting involved with the admin side of the football club, every week you have to deal with stupid **** like this.... It's just not as simple as it used to be when you just turn up and play

21 hours ago, SomeGuy1977 said:

Hearing stories of players being given a yellow after swearing at an official does my head in. 

As in they shouldn't be given a yellow? I think it is about respect and control of the game, obviously depends on the situation but if a player swears at a referee in an aggressive manner why shouldn't they be carded?

[Wanderboy]

1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

Wanderboy,

You should be applauded the way you approached the situation. Mature, considered and sensibly in a situation than deserved the complete opposite. This is the reason I hate getting involved with the admin side of the football club, every week you have to deal with stupid **** like this.... It's just not as simple as it used to be when you just turn up and play

As in they shouldn't be given a yellow? I think it is about respect and control of the game, obviously depends on the situation but if a player swears at a referee in an aggressive manner why shouldn't they be carded?

Prydz,

I've just heard that the lad in question has had his suspension downgraded from 2 weeks to 1.

Under the circumstances, that's a good result for him. We didn't appeal, but I know our club president actually attended the judiciary hearings that night. I'm still waiting to hear back from him re the reason for the downgrade, but dare I say, he may have had some input and offered some feedback, not only on the actual situation, but by also offering the feedback that he received from both myself and the opposition manager.

The parents of the boy involved both just rang me to thank me for my efforts. They are both pleased with the result.

As a manager, it's just my job to support my players in cases of injustice. We are two games out from the end of the season, and this is the first red card any of our players have received all season (albeit this one was completely unwarranted), which just reinforces the spirit in which our team plays the game.

It was my duty to defend this player under these circumstances. Unfortunately, I didn't get the result I wanted, but at least the players and myself have learnt much from this situation. I sincerely hope the referee did too.

[MadKaw]

I thought an R6 red card is only one match suspension anyway.

Unless abuse is aimed at officials then its 3.

[SomeGuy1977]

15 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

 

As in they shouldn't be given a yellow? I think it is about respect and control of the game, obviously depends on the situation but if a player swears at a referee in an aggressive manner why shouldn't they be carded?

they absolutely should be carded. If the ref has deemed the player to be swearing at them, it's a red card offence. It does my head in that refs aren't giving it. 

[smp]

Just finished the second and final night of goalkeeper coaching training with Jim Fraser. If you ever get the chance to learn from Jim, grab that opportunity with both hands. 

And now I get to add "Certified Community Goalkeeper Coach" to the resume  (for whatever that's worth anyway). Next season is going to be fun.