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The Refereeing Thread

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1 hour ago, mack said:

 

That's an awful decision to overturn the linesman.

Agree.  I think there is more of a case to overturn an offside rather than overturn play on. Isn't the VAR only supposed to be used to correct "obvious errors"?  There appeared to be nothing obviously wrong with the original call.

More evidence of VAR being misused!

Get rid of it!

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Another VAR calamity this time from Germany.

Video: https://imgtc.com/w/f9I1XGT

In the normal play, the ref blew for a foul on the Koln keeper, with the ball being kicked into goal after the whistle.

The VAR overturned the decision & awarded a goal. There are two huge errors here. The first one is that once the whistle goes, the game is dead. Second, the VAR missed that there was a foul from the Dortmund player pushing a Koln defender, who was pushed into his goalkeeper.

As the play was over before the ball was in the net, it should not have been even reviewed. Awful.

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11 hours ago, mack said:

Another VAR calamity this time from Germany.

Video: https://imgtc.com/w/f9I1XGT

In the normal play, the ref blew for a foul on the Koln keeper, with the ball being kicked into goal after the whistle.

The VAR overturned the decision & awarded a goal. There are two huge errors here. The first one is that once the whistle goes, the game is dead. Second, the VAR missed that there was a foul from the Dortmund player pushing a Koln defender, who was pushed into his goalkeeper.

As the play was over before the ball was in the net, it should not have been even reviewed. Awful.

The whistle clearly called play 'dead' before the ball went in. There is no foul either. So, in essence after review it should have been a drop-ball on the edge of the 6-yard box... or we just get rid of VAR and call a bad foul and get on with life. :P

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18 hours ago, mack said:

4th United goal.

https://streamable.com/e99nz

Deliberate?

I don't think so.

Deliberate is a key word in the LOTG but when determining whether it was a handball, there are up to 7 considerations a referee will take into account when giving a handball.

Harsh but good call.

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1 hour ago, Gazmon said:

The whistle clearly called play 'dead' before the ball went in. There is no foul either. So, in essence after review it should have been a drop-ball on the edge of the 6-yard box... 

Yep, agree with you both....

Appears to be a shocker. After every game, the VAR needs to reason why he gave the goal. There are times when goals are given and in the studio after 10 replays people can't decide for or against. In this case, the minute given to the VAR to make a decision is too soon. It's clear we haven't got the protocol or use right yet

2 hours ago, Gazmon said:

or we just get rid of VAR and call a bad foul and get on with life. :P

Funny enough, we are in this position because people were fuming when a bad foul cost them the game. This is why we have got this far with VAR.

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45 minutes ago, GunnerWanderer said:

Thoughts on the lady referee last night?

Thought she handled the game very well, go as far to say she was better than what we see in A-league.

Kudos to her.

Yeah I'd have to agree there. She got all the big decisions right and from where I was standing she was very respectful when 'lecturing' miscreants !!

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I thought she was decent. She was capable and able to keep up with play. I think she let some of the players surround her and get in her face a bit, but thats no different to what I think about most refs (seriously something that shits me). Can't say I agreed with every decision she made - which is generally true when I'm watching my team - but for the most part I think she was good (sorry Mack, as much as I wanted them, I don't think she got the penalty calls wrong). I'd be ok to see her in the A-League.

When she was warming up with the AR's, I though the 3 of them looked like kids, with dad (ie KGJ) the supervising parent :)

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She was better than any aleague ref I've seen in the last few aleague seasons.

One thing I think could be improved is clarity. She didn't seem to get her message across to the players at times in terms of where  a kick or throw should be taken from or when play was halted/restarted. Perhaps more commanding use of the whistle? 

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On 23/09/2017 at 1:13 PM, matty said:

Perhaps more commanding use of the whistle? 

Agree, I couldn’t hear the whistle at times. Hand signals or a quick word sometimes can be the best way to clear confusion.

1 hour ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

Better than the Kiwi they brought in to ref the Matildas match at the Riff last Saturday.

She was horrible.

On 21/09/2017 at 4:10 PM, SomeGuy1977 said:

Can't say I agreed with every decision she made - which is generally true when I'm watching my team

Hard to eliminate bias but I thought she was excellent in her decision making.

On 21/09/2017 at 2:38 PM, GunnerWanderer said:

Thoughts on the lady referee last night?

She was excellent, game flowed nicely, foul recognition, keeping the game under control, game management and took it like a pro who has been refereeing in the A-League for years.

It’s only one game though, very few flash points, game changing decisions and wasn’t the most challenging game.

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Heard a fantastic term on "You are the Ref" show, referee picking up a clean sheet (no yellows or reds).

Love it, must admit that it is a foreign concept at AA level but find the higher you go, fouls become more technical but generally the players tend to play. Foreign concept at A-League level too :lol: 

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4 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Why? Just focus on getting decisions right

Pretty sure refs can send ant member of the technical staff from the field anyway.

Last season most of the refs didn't issue yellow cards for crowding on the field!

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4 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

Why? Just focus on getting decisions right

I would argue that even correct decisions would only have a small improvement in coach behavior, if at all.

Quote

“We already do a system called Ask, Tell, Remove, which we think has been effective, but certainly from a crowd point of view this would make explicit the warnings and consequences for coaches’ behaviour.”

How is the ref stopping the game to talk to a coach not explicit enough for the crowd?

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Agree Someguy but my point was simpler, what is the difference between pointing to the stands and showing a red? Nil. Just focus on getting the decisions right rather than making a circus out of it.

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What is your call? Arsenal fans blowing up but can’t see why they are furious.

Perfect scenario for VAR, 94m tackle (15s from time), 2m to get vision and referee to view vision, 96m VAR assisted decision and 97m pen taken.

I think it is great, big decision and one you want to get right.

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First one: Penalty. Watford player gets the ball and gets knocked over by Arsenal player.

Second: No penalty. Simultaneous contact with the ball, the Juve player falling over doesn't make it a foul. If the ref declined to give a penalty it shouldn't be overturned.

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8 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:
 

Perfect scenario for VAR, 94m tackle (15s from time), 2m to get vision and referee to view vision, 96m VAR assisted decision and 97m pen taken.

I think it is great, big decision and one you want to get right.

Hate VAR.

Problem is, there is no difference between this and a pen in the first minute - goals are precious in football. And that slippery slope of what you should be checking for, and when you stop the game, is as big a problem as the time taken to get decisions.

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I wouldn't give the first one a penalty. Touch was inconsequential and had no bearing on the play.

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There was something I was thinking about last night after our game.

We had numerous offsides where our players got through on goal against the Mariners high line. The referee blew up the play immediately. There's no chance for the VAR to intervene against a bad call. If we had a 2 on the keeper it's likely that play results in a goal if played appropriately.

Now, our late near-miss where Cejudo's shot just went wide and Riera/Bridge were just too far to turn it home. If say, Riera had got to the ball and tapped it home, only for the linesman to flag it offside, the ref wouldn't have have the chance to blow the play up before the goal was scored.

It's the exact same situation, except in one, the game is stopped before the ball goes in the net so the VAR can't do anything.

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1 minute ago, mack said:

There was something I was thinking about last night after our game.

We had numerous offsides where our players got through on goal against the Mariners high line. The referee blew up the play immediately. There's no chance for the VAR to intervene against a bad call. If we had a 2 on the keeper it's likely that play results in a goal if played appropriately.

Now, our late near-miss where Cejudo's shot just went wide and Riera/Bridge were just too far to turn it home. If say, Riera had got to the ball and tapped it home, only for the linesman to flag it offside, the ref wouldn't have have the chance to blow the play up before the goal was scored.

It's the exact same situation, except in one, the game is stopped before the ball goes in the net so the VAR can't do anything.

There was also one where Riera (I think) looked onside. So if they incorrectly let play go on, then they can call it back if it's a goal. But if they incorrectly pull it up, they can't do anything.

These kind of inconsistencies pop up in ALL SPORTS that use a version of video technology, and I've yet to see any sport deal with it well. And football flows more than all these other sports. VAR does not and will not eradicate controversies. It will just create different ones, while hindering the game. This is what has happened with every sport to use it.

The problem from an administrator point of view, is the opposite of the problem we have with the FFA - where the FFA have administrators from other sports that don't understand football, world football is so big it takes little notice of other sports and has administrators that wouldn't know anything about other sports, such as NFL, cricket, NRL. If they did, they'd have seen all these issues with video technology.

Get rid of it, it's crap. And it's only going to get crapper.

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A general comment on refereeing in the A-League:

I think the general standard has been fantastic especially in comparison to previous seasons (well thus far). Last nights derby was a difficult game to control but thought he did well. Beath in our game (minus the Cejudo decision) had a pretty good game but as West suggested, he started at a low base.

—————————-

Did my level 3 referee course at FNSW valentine park yesterday. Some interesting comments;

- When coming to decisions in regards to careless, reckless & excessive force don’t compare decisions in A-League & EPL. There priority is to keep 11 players on the park & create a contest rather how one would referee at a grass roots game. Generally contact made on the foot will be a yellow and anything higher likely to be Red. More likely to be yellow if a player sliding rather than lunging in (red).

- Graham Arnold teams surround the referee to pressure the referee. They have introduced a rule as of last season where the third the player into a confrontation with the referee would get yellow carded.

- In the S3 derby when Saba was sent off, he shouldn’t have been sent off as it was a reckless tackle technically. The FFA backed the call under good game management as the next tackle could have seriously injured someone. (Side note: last night Williams tackle was way worse, would have thought under these circumstances that he should have been red carded given the nature of the game).

- Referees also got hit hard by the FFA budget cut backs.

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Video referee can never work in football. Because technically they should let every close offside call go, and then come back to the review later for it to be a fair and consistent process. There is no point in even having the linesman there.

Otherwise they can't take some on the word of the linesman and some on the VAR. There is no consistency in that. Talk about trying to kill a sport. There are far too many variables in football to involve any technology in a major way.

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