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The Refereeing Thread

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On Bill & Bozz last night, discussion again on Temporary Dismissals in the UK. Bozza called for Temporary Dismissals for the top leagues

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Silly.

When does the retake get ordered? After the keeper grabs it with his hands? What if the keeper chests it down and waits for the opposition. If the opposition don't move in immediately, he could stand at the edge of the 18 yard box, then pick it up 15 seconds later. Do they retake?

The whole point of this change was to prevent retakes, and they've just added one.

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Yeah that sounds like they don't know how to fix it so they've just said it doesn't break any rules but it's still not allowed.

Presumably they'd never ask for a retake if the keeper took a goal kick long and a defender on the half way line deliberately headed it back to him so where are they going to draw the line? Is outside the penalty area ok, because that's just a 12 yard chip.

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3 hours ago, mack said:

Silly

Appears like a re-write of the wording will need to be done but it’s too far gone to bring out a revision so late on. Had it been changed around the WWC, maybe just in time but now? Too late. Always next year :lol:

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5 hours ago, mack said:

Silly.

When does the retake get ordered? After the keeper grabs it with his hands? What if the keeper chests it down and waits for the opposition. If the opposition don't move in immediately, he could stand at the edge of the 18 yard box, then pick it up 15 seconds later. Do they retake?

The whole point of this change was to prevent retakes, and they've just added one.

Probably once the goalkeeper grabs it with his hands

Point is moot anyway because the time lost can be added on as stoppage time. Additionally, if the referee tells them to not do it again, the second time the team tries it, you now bring into play cards for dissent and deliberate time wasting (because they are delaying the proper restart of play)

4 hours ago, Davo said:

Yeah that sounds like they don't know how to fix it so they've just said it doesn't break any rules but it's still not allowed.

Presumably they'd never ask for a retake if the keeper took a goal kick long and a defender on the half way line deliberately headed it back to him so where are they going to draw the line? Is outside the penalty area ok, because that's just a 12 yard chip.

Outside the penalty area is a grey zone but keeping in mind the skill involved, I'd probably allow it

All it takes is the striker to press the defender, win the ball and score the tap in and it'll never happen again

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On 03/08/2019 at 8:52 PM, StringerBellend said:

Aggressive. It was amongst a whole bunch of other abuse, which didn’t get to me as much (I have family and friends with CP and other disabilities so I lost it a little after the game)

I told the referee a couple of times it wasn’t on in 2019. I attempted to do it calmly as I could 

Was a young referee and he was intimidated by the other team. Which is a problem in Canterbury league 

Referee spoke to the guy but for mine should have booked him would have stopped it then 

This is a difficult situation, I agree with Paul that this should not be tolerated but going straight for the yellow or red Card shouldn’t be the first option. It should be a graded approach & from your Account difficult to ascertain the series of events.

I’m guessing that he didn’t show a card because the referee didn’t hear the abuse. It becomes a slippery slope (so better to not go down it) when you have to start showing cards for incidents you don’t see or hear, especially straight red cards.

The referee being intimidated probably didn’t help matters, throw in a clearly spicy contest & it’s hard to keep on top of the game as well as managing the players through out.

I’d be more inclined to write a report to your association/judiciary/etc in regards to what happened. In the end it will end up as a he said/she said type of discussion where nothing will directly come out of the report (especially if the referee didn’t hear it) but useful for future incidents if the same thing were to happen with that player or team.

On 03/08/2019 at 9:12 PM, Paul01 said:

As to the aggression by the other team, there may have needed to more than 1 yellow card. I would have started giving free kicks early in the game to take the heat out of it as more often than not. But that does depend on the teams involved, positions on the table, history between players&/or spectators.

 

On 03/08/2019 at 11:03 PM, Edinburgh said:

Why does that matter?

It is an good approach to have but it shouldn’t be a hard & fast rule when it comes to games. I think it’s important to come into a game with no expectations but is always a good idea to be as best prepared. For example if there is a player that always shows dissent, good to get on top of him early, if it’s a 1v2 game, you know what to expect but just because an incident occurred in a previous game you shouldn’t assume that it’s going to happen in that next game or that x is a dirty team. It’s a fine line.

I think it’s important not to take the heat out of the game entirely. You need to get a grasp of the heat/intensity/flow of the game and referee accordingly. 

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On 04/08/2019 at 4:20 PM, Unlimited said:

Second one happened after the game. He goes over to me, doesn't shake my hand, and the first words out of his mouth are, "You should go back to Rooball, you can't even keep up". Only problem is, I'm still on the field so...

Guy probably thought that you couldn’t do anything since it was after full time. Bloody idiot :lol:

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

think it’s important to come into a game with no expectations but is always a good idea to be as best prepared. For example if there is a player that always shows dissent, good to get on top of him early, if it’s a 1v2 game, you know what to expect but just because an incident occurred in a previous game you shouldn’t assume that it’s going to happen in that next game or that x is a dirty team. It’s a fine line.

Agreed. Generally I go into all games with no expectations. There are the odd exceptions like I had last Saturday which was an u16s that was 2nd going for a win to allow them to go to champion of champions. I have been in the centre for a few games over the last 3 years with that team and have been given gobfuls from the coach of the team coming second as well as the parents on sideline.

I had a chat with another referee who had them on the Saturday before where a spectator went onto the patch after the whistle and an opposition player.

I decided before I arrived to ask ground official to spend some on the sideline. I also called both marshals to indicate that if there was any rubbish from the sideline, they were to escort any sideline "officials" away from the pitch immediately. Also, I was lucky to have a referee who had been sick for some time, as he felt he was sufficiently recovered do the sideline with the technical boxes volunteer for the game as I had no assistants. 

Both teams were kept on a short leash with 1 yellow card issued to a player on each team. The team that was coming 2nd won 4-0. I felt that i had good game even getting "good call, ref" for an offside on a free kick in the half without an assistant from team with the most sideline rubbish.

Edited by Paul01
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10 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

Agreed. Generally I go into all games with no expectations. There are the odd exceptions like I had last Saturday which was an u16s that was 2nd going for a win to allow them to go to champion of champions. I have been in the centre for a few games over the last 3 years with that team and have been given gobfuls from the coach of the team coming second as well as the parents on sideline.

I had a chat with another referee who had them on the Saturday before where a spectator went onto the patch after the whistle and punched an opposition player.

I decided before I arrived to ask ground official to spend some on the sideline. I also called both marshals to indicate that if there was any rubbish from the sideline, they were to escort any sideline "officials" away from the pitch immediately. Also, I was lucky to have a referee who had been sick for some time, as he felt he was sufficiently recovered do the sideline with the technical boxes volunteer for the game as I had no assistants. 

Both teams were kept on a short leash with 1 yellow card issued to a player on each team. The team that was coming 2nd won 4-0. I felt that i had good game even getting "good call, ref" for an offside on a free kick in the half without an assistant from team with the most sideline rubbish.

Fixed.

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12 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Probably once the goalkeeper grabs it with his hands

Point is moot anyway because the time lost can be added on as stoppage time. Additionally, if the referee tells them to not do it again, the second time the team tries it, you now bring into play cards for dissent and deliberate time wasting (because they are delaying the proper restart of play)

Outside the penalty area is a grey zone but keeping in mind the skill involved, I'd probably allow it

All it takes is the striker to press the defender, win the ball and score the tap in and it'll never happen again

But is it delaying the restart of play? As soon as the keeper kicks it play has restarted. Everything that happens after that is during play. The keeper could chip it up to the defenders head but the defender may choose to bring it down and play on. Maybe he does deliberately head it back but the keeper chooses to not pick it up. All this happens after play has restarted. And IFAB have specifically said it’s not against the rules so I’d be pretty annoyed if I got a card for repeatedly not breaking the rules.

On the second point I agree it’s unlikely to happen with a player outside the box (technically this has been allowed for years and nobody tried it until the rule changed to allow goal kicks to not leave the box). The issue I have is it’s a grey area as you said. Whenever a rule is vague you’ll get different conflicting decisions based on the individual referees, which just annoys people. They should have been clearer in defining the limits.

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5 hours ago, Davo said:

But is it delaying the restart of play? As soon as the keeper kicks it play has restarted. Everything that happens after that is during play. The keeper could chip it up to the defenders head but the defender may choose to bring it down and play on. Maybe he does deliberately head it back but the keeper chooses to not pick it up. All this happens after play has restarted. And IFAB have specifically said it’s not against the rules so I’d be pretty annoyed if I got a card for repeatedly not breaking the rules.

On the second point I agree it’s unlikely to happen with a player outside the box (technically this has been allowed for years and nobody tried it until the rule changed to allow goal kicks to not leave the box). The issue I have is it’s a grey area as you said. Whenever a rule is vague you’ll get different conflicting decisions based on the individual referees, which just annoys people. They should have been clearer in defining the limits.

It’s like taking a free kick from the wrong position to force a re-take. Or taking a quick free kick while the opposition is setting up a wall. You’re “restarting play” but in a way which you know the referee will pull up.

But I agree it’s a bit of a silly and unneeded law change but it’s the law now so...

 

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how about change the rules so the keeper can't use his hands from any kind of back-pass unless he's under pressure. leave it to the referee do gauge whether its an illegal pass-back or not.

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So Ben Wilson leaves the FFA as Director of Referees.

About *** time. 

Perhaps we will see the A-league referees stop pandering to AHs like Brosque and Simon and them off. Just because a player is on a professional contract does not exclude him or her from the LOTG. 

Abuse a match official. Red Card.

Abuse another player. Red Card

 

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Eventful weekend of refereeing for me

Was threatened by a coach because I am apparently biased against him personally as evidenced by seven weeks ago not awarding a penalty for his team who won 1-0 anyway and on the day for disallowing a goal (as a linesman) because a cross went out of play and then back in... never mind the opposition team hit the post like 6 times and his own team had like 4 breakaways but it’s clearly my fault they lost 1-0

:smurfnono:

And then the next day, was threatened to be sued at half time by a random crowd member because I was “very bad” and was questioning whether I even had authority to referee the match.

Her complaints ostensibly magically disappeared after the team she was supporting won 1-0

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3 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Eventful weekend of refereeing for me

Was threatened by a coach because I am apparently biased against him personally as evidenced by seven weeks ago not awarding a penalty for his team who won 1-0 anyway and on the day for disallowing a goal (as a linesman) because a cross went out of play and then back in... never mind the opposition team hit the post like 6 times and his own team had like 4 breakaways but it’s clearly my fault they lost 1-0

:smurfnono:

And then the next day, was threatened to be sued at half time by a random crowd member because I was “very bad” and was questioning whether I even had authority to referee the match.

Her complaints ostensibly magically disappeared after the team she was supporting won 1-0

Well, in one of my games on Sunday, I had to award 3 red cards for abuse (of match official) to 3 players on one team after the whistle (Also happened to be the losers). Also happened to be L3 assessment game. Assessor said agreed with positioning, awarding of fouls, management of players, use of whistle etc. He also agreed that the issuing of the 3 reds was warranted.

So red card every weekend for the last 4 coming up to grandfinal weekend in a few weeks. 

Makes me wonder if I'll get appointed to the All Age on Grandfinal weekend.:blink:

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I give credit to all you guys (girls included) out there in the local leagues running around with whistles in your mouths. You get unwarranted abuse regardless of whether it's related to your call or the game in general. The abusers are like real life keyboard warriors. Like, half of the things coming out of their mouths you wouldn't say to anyone outside of the pitch, right (maybe those who have road rage? and I also get the feeling that hurling abuse is now seen as part and parcel of being a spectator? (not all spectators). 

anyway, all the power to you. You all deserve a lot more match fee and a lot more respect. 

Yours truly, former abuse hurler. 

Teddies

 

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4 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Eventful weekend of refereeing for me

Was threatened by a coach because I am apparently biased against him personally as evidenced by seven weeks ago not awarding a penalty for his team who won 1-0 anyway and on the day for disallowing a goal (as a linesman) because a cross went out of play and then back in... never mind the opposition team hit the post like 6 times and his own team had like 4 breakaways but it’s clearly my fault they lost 1-0

:smurfnono:

And then the next day, was threatened to be sued at half time by a random crowd member because I was “very bad” and was questioning whether I even had authority to referee the match.

Her complaints ostensibly magically disappeared after the team she was supporting won 1-0

It sounds like the wsw face family was present at these games...

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4 hours ago, Unlimited said:

And then the next day, was threatened to be sued at half time by a random crowd member because I was “very bad” and was questioning whether I even had authority to referee the match.

Her complaints ostensibly magically disappeared after the team she was supporting won 1-0

Probably worried you were going to ruin her multi.

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Teddies :good:

4 hours ago, teddies said:

Yours truly, former abuse hurler

I must admit I always used to bitch and moan about the referees we had, although some of it was warranted being on the other side gives you a different perspective on things.

5 hours ago, Paul01 said:

Well, in one of my games on Sunday, I had to award 3 red cards for abuse (of match official) to 3 players on one team after the whistle

There are many okay things about the churches comp in Sydney but this is one of the big big positives. Zero tolerance approach towards this stuff, especially abuse towards match officials, never had OFFINABUS or issues with the sidelines. Still would like to see Sim bins introduced for the sort of chat or talk that not often is enough to constitute dissent.

9 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Was threatened by a coach because I am apparently biased against him personally as evidenced by seven weeks ago not awarding a penalty for his team

Funny how some managers get this in there head. One manager who in my first game was berating me for pretty much every decision before a ground official had a word with him. Next match I had this team had a pretty good match & went to shake hands at the end of the game, his comment to me was “why did you give a goal kick in the second half, should have been a corner, the opposition even said so”. His team lost but his comment was on a corner which was a 50-50 as to who the last touch. The last game I didn’t bother go near him, wasn’t worth my time. Funny how after that first game, he had it in his head that I’m **** & I’ve got it in for him/his team.

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On 12/08/2019 at 1:43 PM, Edinburgh said:

Is this just really fortuitous timing that this seemed to happen after the A-League became independent & before the season began? I have a feeling that old mate ben might have been pushed

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9 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Teddies :good:

I must admit I always used to bitch and moan about the referees we had, although some of it was warranted being on the other side gives you a different perspective on things.

There are many okay things about the churches comp in Sydney but this is one of the big big positives. Zero tolerance approach towards this stuff, especially abuse towards match officials, never had OFFINABUS or issues with the sidelines. Still would like to see Sim bins introduced for the sort of chat or talk that not often is enough to constitute dissent.

Funny how some managers get this in there head. One manager who in my first game was berating me for pretty much every decision before a ground official had a word with him. Next match I had this team had a pretty good match & went to shake hands at the end of the game, his comment to me was “why did you give a goal kick in the second half, should have been a corner, the opposition even said so”. His team lost but his comment was on a corner which was a 50-50 as to who the last touch. The last game I didn’t bother go near him, wasn’t worth my time. Funny how after that first game, he had it in his head that I’m **** & I’ve got it in for him/his team.

Actually, the team coach and manager were doing a good job. They were telling the young blokes (18-21 year olds) to calm down during the game. Actually, I had sent one (pretty sure he was the capt) to the sin bin for dissent in the last 10 minutes. He came back on to give me a gob full after the whistle and he got one of the reds. 

And I got that wonderful chestnut during the game when a defender got the ball then took out the player in the follow-through "But i got the ball first"

That a free kick to one who got fouled.

 

Edited by Paul01
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3 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Is this just really fortuitous timing that this seemed to happen after the A-League became independent & before the season began? I have a feeling that old mate ben might have been pushed

I reckon he didn't like not having the responsibility for appointment for the professionals. And with his Queensland mate Gillett off to England and Beath not really looking the goods a a full time ref, he saw the writing on the wall and walked before he pushed a la D. Gallop. 

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I suspect anyone in the Lowy old guard at FFA have been looking for new jobs the moment little kid Lowy quit after losing control of the board.

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On 12 August 2019 at 1:43 PM, Edinburgh said:

O'Rourke reckons that Williams was an outstanding match official which is correct. What he didn't say was that Williams stood out for all the wrong reason. The incompetents that were dragged along by the Lowys are starting to disappear, and that's a good thing. KGJ next? 

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2 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

Funny how some managers get this in there head. One manager who in my first game was berating me for pretty much every decision before a ground official had a word with him. Next match I had this team had a pretty good match & went to shake hands at the end of the game, his comment to me was “why did you give a goal kick in the second half, should have been a corner, the opposition even said so”. His team lost but his comment was on a corner which was a 50-50 as to who the last touch. The last game I didn’t bother go near him, wasn’t worth my time. Funny how after that first game, he had it in his head that I’m **** & I’ve got it in for him/his team.

You clearly have by the sound of things 

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36 minutes ago, FCB said:

O'Rourke reckons that Williams was an outstanding match official which is correct. What he didn't say was that Williams stood out for all the wrong reason. The incompetents that were dragged along by the Lowys are starting to disappear, and that's a good thing. KGJ next? 

Speaking of KGJ, he was an interested onlooker at the Jets friendly game, which was to be officiated by Katie Patterson. When I say was, i mean it wasn't long before the players took over the decision making process & made decisions via majority rule, after she had made numerous obvious errors & basically lost control of the game, without it being heated. Quite an achievement.

So anyways, I'm in the car park having a durrie at half time as you do & KGJ gets in his car & drives off, as he'd obviously seen enough & was going home or some other place he'd rather be. I think to myself, I bet she gets an ordinary report this week. 

So you can imagine my shock & dismay when I see she's been awarded an FFA Cup Rnd 32 match after her atrocious performance at VSP. 

Our refereeing ranks are very shallow

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41 minutes ago, Taurus said:

Speaking of KGJ, he was an interested onlooker at the Jets friendly game, which was to be officiated by Katie Patterson. When I say was, i mean it wasn't long before the players took over the decision making process & made decisions via majority rule, after she had made numerous obvious errors & basically lost control of the game, without it being heated. Quite an achievement.

So anyways, I'm in the car park having a durrie at half time as you do & KGJ gets in his car & drives off, as he'd obviously seen enough & was going home or some other place he'd rather be. I think to myself, I bet she gets an ordinary report this week. 

So you can imagine my shock & dismay when I see she's been awarded an FFA Cup Rnd 32 match after her atrocious performance at VSP. 

Our refereeing ranks are very shallow

Didn't Paterson centre the Smurfs-Roar game and let Ninokovic get kicked out of the Game?

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