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The Refereeing Thread

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On 03/03/2020 at 10:47 PM, Prydzopolis said:

 

This is one of the few times that you can rely on a literal word for word from the LOTG & not an interpretation usually found outside it.

If it were to be a red card, it would be “denial of a obvious goal scoring opportunity” or DOGSO. Although it reminds me of those rubbish articles that Ben Wilson used to write to justify plain bad & wrong decisions in the A-League. I have to agree with the article.

There is just too much doubt, is it an obvious goal? Or a probable goal? Do we know where all the defenders are on the field? Is it reasonable to assume that a defender on the 18 yard line may have intercepted? Or how about how accurate players are with shots on goal? What would be xG of a shot from that distance & position on field?

I’m not saying that it shouldn’t be a red but it isn’t such a clear cut decision. As Ed said, it would be a brave referee to make a decision like that

I made a similar decision in an O35s match a couple years ago

1-1 going into the 90th minute, attacking free kick and the kick is missed

Anyway, everyone else is rushing back to defend the counter attack but due to a mix-up, the striker receives the ball about 30m out with two defenders to beat and the goalkeeper

Striker beats one defender and is rushing to goal, so the goalkeeper is rushing out

From about 25m out and to the side slightly, the striker kicks the ball to goal

Last defender is running back towards goal but don't worry, because the goalkeeper "saves" it while outside his penalty area

 

I'm taking into account that the goalkeeper blatantly handball-ed it (so it's at least a yellow), but from 25m out and in a frenzied part of the game, I can't tell if the shot is on target and I also can't tell if the defender would've got there in the end

I got a crapton of flak for this from the striker's team but I awarded a yellow because unlike a Luis Suarez or Harry Kewell at the World Cup, that "goal scoring opportunity" isn't "obvious".

Now I realise that sounds like this decision was easy but I had to think really hard about it. That one took a few seconds and obviously with half the field surrounding me, one half going 'RED! RED!' and the other half going 'Ohh he didn't mean it like that sir', that is a real tough decision to make in that pressure cooker environment at 1-1 in the 90th.

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Red

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Some interesting observations

Not that we have football or next season anytime soon. Maybe revisit it next year :lol:

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THEY FINALLY PUT WHAT HAPPENS IF BOTH TEAMS ENCROACH INTO THE PENALTY KICK TABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woah: :meep:

Do players now need to get their shirts off to determine where the "armpit" is on their body? A football is a pretty large object, is it determined by how much of the ball is above the armpit line? Or is it any amount of armpit line means no handball?

Another big change is that a yellow card is no longer issued for stopping a promising attack if the ref plays advantage or allows a quick free kick to take place, and a quick free kick after denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity downgrades a red card to a yellow? Apparently the red card downgrade came in last year. Must have missed it.

A keeper encroaching at a penalty is no longer penalised if the penalty is just missed or rebounds off the post.

They've banned the flick up to the keeper from goal kicks/free kicks.

Also you can now get 3 yellow cards in a match since YC's don't carry over to penalties. :rofl:

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The yellow card for stopping a promising attack should have been strengthened (especially if it's cynical), not weakened, it's a blight on the game. 

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Posted (edited)
On 05/03/2020 at 10:15 PM, Unlimited said:

I made a similar decision in an O35s match a couple years ago

1-1 going into the 90th minute, attacking free kick and the kick is missed

Anyway, everyone else is rushing back to defend the counter attack but due to a mix-up, the striker receives the ball about 30m out with two defenders to beat and the goalkeeper

Striker beats one defender and is rushing to goal, so the goalkeeper is rushing out

From about 25m out and to the side slightly, the striker kicks the ball to goal

Last defender is running back towards goal but don't worry, because the goalkeeper "saves" it while outside his penalty area

 

I'm taking into account that the goalkeeper blatantly handball-ed it (so it's at least a yellow), but from 25m out and in a frenzied part of the game, I can't tell if the shot is on target and I also can't tell if the defender would've got there in the end

I got a crapton of flak for this from the striker's team but I awarded a yellow because unlike a Luis Suarez or Harry Kewell at the World Cup, that "goal scoring opportunity" isn't "obvious".

Now I realise that sounds like this decision was easy but I had to think really hard about it. That one took a few seconds and obviously with half the field surrounding me, one half going 'RED! RED!' and the other half going 'Ohh he didn't mean it like that sir', that is a real tough decision to make in that pressure cooker environment at 1-1 in the 90th.

Red 

.. and I’m a defender the keeper has done it to prevent a goal how is that not an obvious goal scoring opportunity? 
 

Second thoughts speaking as a defender who has made more than his fair share of fouls that may have denied a goal scoring opportunity, can you ref our games?

Edited by StringerBellend

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Had my first games with grassroots in my association in months.

Unbelievably, I got complimented for my games and a couple of spectators actually clapped my game for u14/1s. That was quite a change. 

My association had 100% coverage for centres for all full field games u12s to u15s plus u16 boys.

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Congratulations mate. That's good to hear.

The ref in Jnr WB's game today (Youth League - HFA) was also pretty good. 

He missed a few blatant handballs (but picked up a couple of others), and a couple of aggressive challenges, but he let the game flow.

Gave 4 pens, all of which were clear cut and good decisions. 2 to each side. 

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24 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Congratulations mate. That's good to hear.

The ref in Jnr WB's game today (Youth League - HFA) was also pretty good. 

He missed a few blatant handballs (but picked up a couple of others), and a couple of aggressive challenges, but he let the game flow.

Gave 4 pens, all of which were clear cut and good decisions. 2 to each side. 

We had a zoom meeting last Monday. Major topic was handball.

IFAB have clarified the handball rule. One change that may have been a blatant in the past is now play on. This one is if the ball hits the foot and bounces up into the arm is not handball.  The best clip you can find of this is Mark Milligan at the world cup in France. Milligan was in the penalty box, the ball hits his foot and rebounds into one of his arms. That is play on. They other play -on is now if a player falls in the box and the balls hits the arm being used to cushion the fall to the ground. This is no longer handball.

For all those o35 players plus everyone else , we are looking at handball basically like this: "Did you make yourself bigger and gain advantage?"

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3 hours ago, Paul01 said:

IFAB have clarified the handball rule.

They have provided some clarification but that is in the new LOTG for the 20/21 season, we are currently playing under the 19/20 LOTG. It really is a bit of joke, they’ve tried to make it easier & more black/white but I think they’ve just made it more complicated.

4 hours ago, Paul01 said:

Had my first games with grassroots in my association in months.

Well in Paul, good to hear :good:

I was pretty happy with my games today, some pretty low level AA to get me back into the swing of things :good:

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59 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

They have provided some clarification but that is in the new LOTG for the 20/21 season, we are currently playing under the 19/20 LOTG. It really is a bit of joke, they’ve tried to make it easier & more black/white but I think they’ve just made it more complicated.

Well in Paul, good to hear :good:

I was pretty happy with my games today, some pretty low level AA to get me back into the swing of things :good:

4 games tomorrow 

U16 girls with the flag, then centres for o35 men (top division), intermediate (18-21) men and finishing with AA men (mid division) I am going to dead on Monday

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23 hours ago, Paul01 said:

4 games tomorrow 

U16 girls with the flag, then centres for o35 men (top division), intermediate (18-21) men and finishing with AA men (mid division) I am going to dead on Monday

I would say good luck but it’s too late :lol:

@Unlimited you back refereeing this season?

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1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

I would say good luck but it’s too late :lol:

@Unlimited you back refereeing this season?

Turned out to be 4 games in the middle with the ref appointed not turning up.

O35s were their normal argumentative selves but with 3 yellows I did not have to resort to a red.

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10 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

I would say good luck but it’s too late :lol:

@Unlimited you back refereeing this season?

I have temporarily taken a sabbatical this season

I’d rather not run around taking in the big ones with global pandemic and stuff :( 

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2 hours ago, Unlimited said:

I have temporarily taken a sabbatical this season

I’d rather not run around taking in the big ones with global pandemic and stuff :( 

Wuss.......:P

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12 hours ago, Unlimited said:

I have temporarily taken a sabbatical this season

I’d rather not run around taking in the big ones with global pandemic and stuff :( 

Or you could have just gone with “I didn’t want to spend the next few months being abused & had better things to do with my time” :lol:

20 hours ago, Paul01 said:

Turned out to be 4 games in the middle with the ref appointed not turning up.

Ouch, hope you pulled up okay!

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7 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Or you could have just gone with “I didn’t want to spend the next few months being abused & had better things to do with my time” :lol:

Ouch, hope you pulled up okay!

Calves are sore especially at my age. But least I'm breathing, walking and slightly fitter.

As an aside, still waiting to cough up for 2 NPLW games I did in March one as ref and one as AR. They decided put most of their staff on JobKeeper.

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12 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

How are we all traveling in here?

So far so good. Calves have improved.

Even got to do an AAM/Div 3 game with 2 assistants the other weekend. Great game to referee played at speed and with skill. I gave one player a yellow for stopping a promising attack. He tried to wind me up during the game by acting all innocent. After the game he told me he was just just winding me up and said he wouldn't mind if I was appointed to referee his team every week.

One issues is to define players who are on the sideline and do not want to wear a jacket as subs bibs are no longer allowed. We now have electronic teamsheets which have their own problems when there is no backup for the team manager.

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Don't want to link to a Bossi article but Strebre just came out saying they ignored the Grant second yellow because it would have been "very harsh" to "interpret" the laws in the way the laws say. Pathetic.

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So basically because it would have been a second yellow, it was a grand final and likely to be the winning goal the law doesn’t apply. But if it was a first yellow, a regular season game and a goal to make it 3-0 it’s a guaranteed yellow.

Translation: Beathed

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Or are they saying it was Sydney FC so they don't want to be hard on them.

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Although I am no fan of Beath & I didn’t think he deserved the final over King or Faghani but I think it was the right call.

He put the shirt over his head for 1 or 2 seconds. This is a Grandfinal, he has just scored the match winner & especially with how extraordinary end to the season, context is important. Had the shirt come off or had he ran into the crowd, different story. In the end, right decision made & common sense applied when it isn’t always the case.

He got the offside decision 100% spot on, not that anyone on twitter agrees but they tweaked the offside law to make sure a situation like this isn’t a goal. Beath had an okay game in the end.

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On 23/07/2020 at 9:53 PM, Paul01 said:

So far so good. Calves have improved.

Even got to do an AAM/Div 3 game with 2 assistants the other weekend. Great game to referee played at speed and with skill. I gave one player a yellow for stopping a promising attack. He tried to wind me up during the game by acting all innocent. After the game he told me he was just just winding me up and said he wouldn't mind if I was appointed to referee his team every week.

One issues is to define players who are on the sideline and do not want to wear a jacket as subs bibs are no longer allowed. We now have electronic teamsheets which have their own problems when there is no backup for the team manager.

How are things going Paul?

In a few heated games I haven’t controlled the line as I should & didn’t take advantage of the card system.

Without bibs, jackets & lots of people in the close vicinity of the technical area, it can be difficult to determine who is a player/coach/ground official.

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1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

How are things going Paul?

In a few heated games I haven’t controlled the line as I should & didn’t take advantage of the card system.

Without bibs, jackets & lots of people in the close vicinity of the technical area, it can be difficult to determine who is a player/coach/ground official.

Pretty well. Looks like I got my Level 3 as I moved from C to B. But I gave yet to get my accreditation but I am doing tougher games. And I had my first send off this season for, of all things, a handball DOGSO in front of goal for an AA Women's game. And of course, the day before, my eldest son was in centre for an u12s game (with me as one of his ARs) and he also had a handball DOGSO. Both the kid (was his second for the season) and the young lady went off smiling. The young lady had been a GK so was acting instinctively.

In my association the coach must wear a yellow vest, the team manager a blue vest and the team Marshall for crowd control an orange vest. However,the weekend, I got heckled to the point of frustration being on my own in a usually friendly venue. So I went off the pitch to find the ground official and got her to warn the hecklers. I have had to do on the odd occasion, send spectators away from the pitch. A warning via the team Marshall or ground official is usually enough to calm a rowdy bunch

The biggest issue with players is to tell players either to sit or cover their jerseys when on the side line. I was burnt with feedback on a particular weekend which filtered from the home club. I had asked the reserves to cover up at the request of the opposing capt and that was taken as breaching restrictions. My feedback to the branch was that I thought it sour grapes from the home coach when I instructed him to wear a vest.

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That’s good to hear Paul, I must admit I have been in a similar boat. In the past I think I’ve shown a red card once in 4-6 years but this year I’ve had multiple second yellows & a few straight red cards. The worse part? The admin! Two games I’ve had to call off for bad injuries needing an ambulance, more admin!! We don’t get any extra pay for it!!

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Ignoring the A-League's attempts at being "cool" in this tweet, no surprises who finished the season with the least yellow cards by a big margin.

They gave away the second least fouls over the season so you'd expect them to have a low number of yellows, although that also raises questions around why they have so few fouls conceded. You'd expect the better teams to concede less fouls as they have more of the ball, but Newcastle gave away less than them and the Mariners only one more over the season, while City finished second and gave away the most.

Also if you look at fouls per yellow card the average across the league is 6.9. Sydney have the most fouls/yellow at 8.7 and Western United have the least at 5.7. That means that Sydney concede 26% more fouls/yellow than the average while Western United concede 17% less fouls than average per yellow. For context seven of the eleven clubs are within 10% of the average (WU -17%, City -13%, Adelaide +20% & Sydney +26%).

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Same thing as what happened a couple years ago when SFC were a gigantic outlier in the fouls per yellow stat.

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I think we (myself included) can be too critical of the referees, but sometimes it’s warranted. And for some the criticism comes a little more frequently. That was why I did a double take when I saw this... I had to check the date and was surprised it wasn’t the beginning of April.

 

Edit: stuffed up the tweet. Beath is referee of the year in the A-League.

Edited by mack
i feex

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This is pretty much spot on, thought it was incredible that Beath was given the Grandfinal over both Faghani & King. King who has been the best performing referee this season & Faghani who is the best referee in the league by a long margin.

I’ve seen one point of view is that Beath hasn’t had a Grandfinal for a number of years & has waited his turn. Not great but thought enough to let it go but to get this? Nah

On a separate note, I did think he had a decent performance in the grand final, plenty of drama about some decisions that he got right but that’s just life.

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