The Refereeing Thread

[Paul01]

1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

This is pretty much spot on, thought it was incredible that Beath was given the Grandfinal over both Faghani & King. King who has been the best performing referee this season & Faghani who is the best referee in the league by a long margin.

I’ve seen one point of view is that Beath hasn’t had a Grandfinal for a number of years & has waited his turn. Not great but thought enough to let it go but to get this? Nah

On a separate note, I did think he had a decent performance in the grand final, plenty of drama about some decisions that he got right but that’s just life.

Spot on

Why keep the Ferrari in the garage and use the Hyundai instead?

[Wanderboy]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Amateur Association thread or here but considering the subject, I thought this was probably the better thread. Also, I just need to vent somewhere.

Let me just preface my following comments by saying that generally I am on the side officials. It is a thankless job. On the whole, the officials at young Wanderboy's games this year have on the most part been excellent. I've been very impressed by the standard of officiating this season. The last two weeks however...!!!! And yes, I know you take the good with the bad. I also want to add that this is no slight on any referees on this forum.

But, the bad has been awful. I also want to make it clear that I am not being a biased parent here. It was truly shite decision making.

 

1. Last week. Young Wanderboy is captain. He goes up to the referee before the game for the coin toss. The referee, a somewhat overweight elderly gentleman, who subsequently didn't move any more than 10 metres either side of half way all game, tells both captains before the game that due to the fact he has no assistant referees, if the defenders claim an off-side, he will call it. WTF does he think the defenders are then going to do all match? Which they did. Wanderboy makes two great runs. One in the 1st half. Clearly on side in a one on one situation with the keeper and immediately called off side. Get's a yellow card for swearing (but not abuse which I don't condone. He just used the f word. Fair enough). 2nd half, makes an even better run (clearly on side again), scores a cracker and the opposition claim off-side and the goal is disallowed. This time he protested vehemently again but didn't swear. No 2nd yellow. Both were seriously just **** decisions. So frustrating for him.

2. Today, again. A through ball to him across the centre of the goal square that not only was he behind the defenders, he was freaking behind his own player that passed it to him when he made the run!!! He just made such a good run to the right hand side of the box that he found himself in loads of space. Almost gets shut down but at the last second slams the ball into the top right hand corner from about 10 metres out. Keeper had no chance. Probably, his best finish ever tbh. Pimply faced linesman raises his flag. FMD!!!

Both games were in the balance at the time. I just feel sorry for him that as the striker, he's had 2 legit goals disallowed in 2 weeks from really poor officiating.

I feel better now that I have vented. 

BTW, today's ref was very good but he couldn't over rule his assistant, who was terrible.

[Paul01]

1 hour ago, Wanderboy said:

BTW, today's ref was very good but he couldn't over rule his assistant, who was terrible

The central ref can overrule if he/she sees a clear error. 

And that's what I say to the capts when I have the (usually) luxury of 1 or 2 assistants. Mind you I take into account the experience of the assistants with first season ones needing a little help and they are the ones that usually get overruled. The other overrules are usually for deflection off defenders that were called as goal kicks but as the AR can be unsighted, then a corner is called.

[StringerBellend]

16 hours ago, Wanderboy said:

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Amateur Association thread or here but considering the subject, I thought this was probably the better thread. Also, I just need to vent somewhere.

Let me just preface my following comments by saying that generally I am on the side officials. It is a thankless job. On the whole, the officials at young Wanderboy's games this year have on the most part been excellent. I've been very impressed by the standard of officiating this season. The last two weeks however...!!!! And yes, I know you take the good with the bad. I also want to add that this is no slight on any referees on this forum.

But, the bad has been awful. I also want to make it clear that I am not being a biased parent here. It was truly shite decision making.

 

1. Last week. Young Wanderboy is captain. He goes up to the referee before the game for the coin toss. The referee, a somewhat overweight elderly gentleman, who subsequently didn't move any more than 10 metres either side of half way all game, tells both captains before the game that due to the fact he has no assistant referees, if the defenders claim an off-side, he will call it. WTF does he think the defenders are then going to do all match? Which they did. Wanderboy makes two great runs. One in the 1st half. Clearly on side in a one on one situation with the keeper and immediately called off side. Get's a yellow card for swearing (but not abuse which I don't condone. He just used the f word. Fair enough). 2nd half, makes an even better run (clearly on side again), scores a cracker and the opposition claim off-side and the goal is disallowed. This time he protested vehemently again but didn't swear. No 2nd yellow. Both were seriously just **** decisions. So frustrating for him.

2. Today, again. A through ball to him across the centre of the goal square that not only was he behind the defenders, he was freaking behind his own player that passed it to him when he made the run!!! He just made such a good run to the right hand side of the box that he found himself in loads of space. Almost gets shut down but at the last second slams the ball into the top right hand corner from about 10 metres out. Keeper had no chance. Probably, his best finish ever tbh. Pimply faced linesman raises his flag. FMD!!!

Both games were in the balance at the time. I just feel sorry for him that as the striker, he's had 2 legit goals disallowed in 2 weeks from really poor officiating.

I feel better now that I have vented. 

BTW, today's ref was very good but he couldn't over rule his assistant, who was terrible.

that’s a weird one, generally if there is no linesman the referee will say if it’s a clear offside he will call it, but for defenders not to bother calling for it as he will give benefit to the attacker. 
 

basically in the games without a linesman as a defender you play deeper and don’t even bother trying to play offside, I’ve never heard the referee telling the defender to call it 

as for the swearing our league had an early season clamp down on swearing. We had three players sent off in same game for swearing none of it at referee or the opposition just frustration (one were goalie kicked out in full from goal kick and said ****)

that of course lasted all of about three weeks and now we are back to the gentleman of some of the clubs calling other players c**** and offering fights afterwards without even a warning from the referee 

the joys of Canterbury league 

have to admit if the referee told me I could call offsides, I might be tempted to call a couple of “close” ones 

Edited September 13, 2020 by StringerBellend

[Unlimited]

Ah, these stories make me wish I didn't take a sabbatical this year

[mack]

That Liverpool first pen for the handball was wrong am I right? Deflection off the knee, then into a hand that was below shoulder level. Clearly not deliberate, and surely the deflection makes it no pen?

[Prydzopolis]

 

Not everyday you make it viral (was the referee)! Lucky I didn’t do anything stupid

[Prydzopolis]

20 hours ago, mack said:

That Liverpool first pen for the handball was wrong am I right? Deflection off the knee, then into a hand that was below shoulder level. Clearly not deliberate, and surely the deflection makes it no pen?

You are correct that a deflection off the body is some circumstances will negate the handball but a few things to remember:

- The deflection portion of the law doesn’t not apply if you’ve got your arms above shoulder height

- When it comes to a shot on goal, something that might be considered not a handball in the middle of the field will be different in the penalty box.

- Although his arms were below shoulder level, I’d say that it was very high & almost level with his shoulder. Too high.

When you combine all these things together & ask yourself, “has his arms made himself unnaturally bigger?”. The answer is yes, combining with the strict interpretation of a shot on goal, his arms being so far away from his body then I think the right call was made.

It’s the issue with law, they’ve tried to make it more black & white but it’s become more convoluted 

[StringerBellend]

On 13/09/2020 at 4:57 PM, mack said:

That Liverpool first pen for the handball was wrong am I right? Deflection off the knee, then into a hand that was below shoulder level. Clearly not deliberate, and surely the deflection makes it no pen?

I’m in Shock, Liverpool benefit from poor referee call
 

Edited September 14, 2020 by StringerBellend

[Prydzopolis]

On 12/09/2020 at 7:32 PM, Wanderboy said:

Last week. Young Wanderboy is captain. He goes up to the referee before the game for the coin toss. The referee, a somewhat overweight elderly gentleman, who subsequently didn't move any more than 10 metres either side of half way all game, tells both captains before the game that due to the fact he has no assistant referees, if the defenders claim an off-side, he will call it. WTF does he think the defenders are then going to do all match? Which they did. Wanderboy makes two great runs. One in the 1st half. Clearly on side in a one on one situation with the keeper and immediately called off side. Get's a yellow card for swearing (but not abuse which I don't condone. He just used the f word. Fair enough). 2nd half, makes an even better run (clearly on side again), scores a cracker and the opposition claim off-side and the goal is disallowed. This time he protested vehemently again but didn't swear. No 2nd yellow. Both were seriously just **** decisions. So frustrating for him.

I feel for your son, his team & the referee

First, let me preface this by saying as a referee who has had to call offside from halfway, it’s never fun. In fact, all the referee is doing is guessing as there is no way he’d be able to accurately call an offside from the middle of the field. You’re either feeling bad for the defenders who they feel the attacker was offside when the goal was scored or the attacker who felt they made a good run but were denied a goal.

I do find in these types of games (without assistant referees) it is better to be central rather than up with play. Why you ask? Will you be in a good position to call fouls or a penalty in the box? No, however when judging offsides if you’re too close to the play or too far up the field it’s harder to get a good overall view of the ball/defenders/attackers. Does it suit the older, slower, weightier referees, yes but it does make judging offsides yourself much easier.

On swearing, I think it’s the right call especially if it’s loud. Some referees let it go & I really think it just depends on the type of person. For me, I take a dim view on it.

The side I agree with you, is the pre-match saying he’ll give any offside the defense thinks is offside. I think he might have been trying to suggest that anything that’s close he will give as offside but has worded it badly.

The last consideration you need to take is how someone at your level of football is getting these types of referees? Seen huge numbers of referees drop out over the last 5 or so years, younger referees don’t progress cause they can’t cop the abuse & the middle aged ones left a while ago. All that’s left is the older rusted on referees who have been used to copping it for years and years. I always know that when you get to the late stages of the season, match coverage suffers & you’re lucky to get center referees let alone assistant referees. Hopefully you’ll make finals & the next few weeks don’t ruin things too much.

On 12/09/2020 at 7:32 PM, Wanderboy said:

BTW, today's ref was very good but he couldn't over rule his assistant, who was terrible.

I think it’s important to back your assistant, if it’s offside then that person is the best person placed to make that call. I agree with Paul that lots of first year referees are dying to raise the flag & sometimes you wish they didn’t. It’s really important that you try to back them, help them learn & encourage them not shut them down.

 

[Prydzopolis]

On 13/09/2020 at 4:31 PM, Unlimited said:

Ah, these stories make me wish I didn't take a sabbatical this year

Haha!! I can guarantee you that I’ve had plenty of times this season where I’ve had people who had been too cooped up and used MAA as an outlet.  I think maybe I should have taken a season off like you

On 13/09/2020 at 12:14 PM, StringerBellend said:

basically in the games without a linesman as a defender you play deeper and don’t even bother trying to play offside, I’ve never heard the referee telling the defender to call it 

as for the swearing our league had an early season clamp down on swearing. We had three players sent off in same game for swearing none of it at referee or the opposition just frustration (one were goalie kicked out in full from goal kick and said ****)

that of course lasted all of about three weeks and now we are back to the gentleman of some of the clubs calling other players c**** and offering fights afterwards without even a warning from the referee 

You know it’s funny, the amount of teams I’ve seen do the opposite. One week I had a team deciding to play a high line, first game with no linesman & the second with only one. You’d think that you’d just use common sense? No, just blow up at me instead

The league sounds like a shambles, how can they let stuff like that go? I guess that’s one thing I like about the Churches league, they keep things under control. It’s been pretty good on the central coast too, not for Div1 and PL but for AA & juniors the behavior has been pretty good.

[StringerBellend]

9 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

Haha!! I can guarantee you that I’ve had plenty of times this season where I’ve had people who had been too cooped up and used MAA as an outlet.  I think maybe I should have taken a season off like you

You know it’s funny, the amount of teams I’ve seen do the opposite. One week I had a team deciding to play a high line, first game with no linesman & the second with only one. You’d think that you’d just use common sense? No, just blow up at me instead

The league sounds like a shambles, how can they let stuff like that go? I guess that’s one thing I like about the Churches league, they keep things under control. It’s been pretty good on the central coast too, not for Div1 and PL but for AA & juniors the behavior has been pretty good.

It’s got a lot better, they are far more on to  stuff than they used to be, but they still focus on the wrong things and I think are intermediated by some teams 

 

[Prydzopolis]

On 13/09/2020 at 4:57 PM, mack said:

That Liverpool first pen for the handball was wrong am I right? Deflection off the knee, then into a hand that was below shoulder level. Clearly not deliberate, and surely the deflection makes it no pen?

Check this out by Dale Johnson if you don’t believe me (he usually gives some pretty good explanations about LOTG & the inner workings of VAR)

 

[mack]

That just sounds like the same long ass justifications our own shitty ref bosses used to justify the millions of pro-SFC decisions in the last few years. 

I haven't read the section in a while but I don't remember there being anything in the laws that makes any distinction between "blocks" and whatever isn't a block. The way those tweets are worded it sounds like it's open season for attackers just smashing the ball into a defenders hand instead of shooting.

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, mack said:

it sounds like it's open season for attackers just smashing the ball into a defenders hand instead of shooting.

In England it will just be for ones wearing red.

 

[Prydzopolis]

10 hours ago, mack said:

That just sounds like the same long ass justifications our own shitty ref bosses used to justify the millions of pro-SFC decisions in the last few years. 

I haven't read the section in a while but I don't remember there being anything in the laws that makes any distinction between "blocks" and whatever isn't a block. The way those tweets are worded it sounds like it's open season for attackers just smashing the ball into a defenders hand instead of shooting.

First off, I completely disagree about the SFC conspiracy. Crap decisions? Yes but conspiracy? No.

Dale works for ESPN & seems to take on the mantle for explaining referee decisions. Does a pretty good job of things. He doesn’t work for the PL. It’s not like those articles where they could never ever say once or admit to any error. He’ll happily call out when things are wrong but generally it comes down misunderstanding.

How can you expect the general footballing public to keep up to date with the yearly changes to the LOTG? Unless you do your referee course, attend monthly meetings, doing your video sessions where you’re taught to properly interpret the LOTG & being assessed out on the field.

It’s one thing to read the LOTG but another thing entirely to interpret them. From everything  that I’ve been taught, he is spot on. I thought I did a pretty good of explaining things myself.

[mack]

If the "interpretations" result in that being given as a pen then the law as written needs to be fixed. If that was a pen you might as well rewrite the laws to just award a foul for any content with the hand/arm, because that one completely ignores several of the "this should not be a penalty" lines in the laws because of the "interpretation" that his hand was slightly out to the side therefore it's a pen even though it deflected off his knee, it was a shot fired in at a million miles an hour, the hand wasn't above shoulder height, it wasn't an "un-natural" position and it wasn't deliberate.

[Prydzopolis]

1 minute ago, mack said:

If the "interpretations" result in that being given as a pen then the law as written needs to be fixed. If that was a pen you might as well rewrite the laws to just award a foul for any content with the hand/arm,

It won’t be fixed, unfortunately this is just the way it is. Each year IFAB will update the LOTG & then each nation will pass it on to its referees. In fact, the new season just started & the updated 20/21 LOTG have just come into effect.

You are correct, when it comes to handball and a shot on goal. It’s a very strict interpretation on your hands making your body unnaturally bigger. Or conversely were his arms in that position as a result of a natural movement? 

21 minutes ago, mack said:

that his hand was slightly out to the side therefore it's a pen even though it deflected off his knee, it was a shot fired in at a million miles an hour, the hand wasn't above shoulder height, it wasn't an "un-natural" position and it wasn't deliberate.

1. Arm was closer to shoulder height than beside his waist

2. It’s not about un-natural position anymore, that’s very 18/19  It’s about whether he made his body unnaturally bigger? Most definitely yes

3. You are correct about the speed of the shot but you must take into consideration the distance between the shot & the player was quite considerable so that works against him.

4. It doesn’t need to be deliberate to be handball

[Davo]

What is unnaturally bigger? Is it natural to have arms? Yes. Is it natural to have your arms pinned to your sides while performing athletic activities? No, I would argue that's more unnatural than having your arms out in that situation.

Whenever you see a player stretch a leg out to block a shot their arms naturally go into that position to balance themselves. If the ball hits the foot everyone says how great the block was. If they do exactly the same thing but it hits their arm, even if ti takes a deflection on the way through, suddenly it's all "why was their arm in that position?" and "if you put your arm there you're asking for a penalty".

Unless defenders run around like Irish dancers (but not unnaturally) then it's entirely out of their hands (unnatural pun unintended) whether they give away a penalty.

[Prydzopolis]

10 hours ago, Davo said:

What is unnaturally bigger?

A simplified version is above shoulders, 100% handball & between shoulders and side, a 50-50 call.

I know that there has been a very strict interpretation especially in CL & Serie A in terms of handball especially when it comes to a shot on target. In the PL, they didn’t follow this interpretation but apparently they will come into line this season as with other areas when it comes to VAR. It’s not one I like but it’s the direction we are going with some unbelievably harsh calls. That Leeds one isn’t one of them.

It comes down to the rewrite of the handball law in 19/20. They tried to make it more black and white in terms of handball, trying to take away the interpretation in the old law. Instead I think it still requires just as much interpretation & confusion that existed in the old laws.

10 hours ago, Davo said:

Whenever you see a player stretch a leg out to block a shot their arms naturally go into that position to balance themselves.

The new handball law, does give some latitude for players to have there hands in a natural position away from the side of the body & not be handball but it doesn’t apply to all positions.

For example, if you’re sliding into a challenge your bottom hand supporting you won’t be considered handball. The top hand however if away from the body is considered handball, naturally it won’t be by your side but it’s still a handball.

10 hours ago, Davo said:

Is it natural to have your arms pinned to your sides while performing athletic activities

I think it also now puts the onus on the player to defend differently in the box. In Serie A, I don’t agree with the interpretation where every touch off the hand away from the body is handball but at least the players know where they stand. 

[Wanderboy]

On 14/09/2020 at 9:31 PM, Prydzopolis said:

I feel for your son, his team & the referee

First, let me preface this by saying as a referee who has had to call offside from halfway, it’s never fun. In fact, all the referee is doing is guessing as there is no way he’d be able to accurately call an offside from the middle of the field. You’re either feeling bad for the defenders who they feel the attacker was offside when the goal was scored or the attacker who felt they made a good run but were denied a goal.

I do find in these types of games (without assistant referees) it is better to be central rather than up with play. Why you ask? Will you be in a good position to call fouls or a penalty in the box? No, however when judging offsides if you’re too close to the play or too far up the field it’s harder to get a good overall view of the ball/defenders/attackers. Does it suit the older, slower, weightier referees, yes but it does make judging offsides yourself much easier.

On swearing, I think it’s the right call especially if it’s loud. Some referees let it go & I really think it just depends on the type of person. For me, I take a dim view on it.

The side I agree with you, is the pre-match saying he’ll give any offside the defense thinks is offside. I think he might have been trying to suggest that anything that’s close he will give as offside but has worded it badly.

The last consideration you need to take is how someone at your level of football is getting these types of referees? Seen huge numbers of referees drop out over the last 5 or so years, younger referees don’t progress cause they can’t cop the abuse & the middle aged ones left a while ago. All that’s left is the older rusted on referees who have been used to copping it for years and years. I always know that when you get to the late stages of the season, match coverage suffers & you’re lucky to get center referees let alone assistant referees. Hopefully you’ll make finals & the next few weeks don’t ruin things too much.

I think it’s important to back your assistant, if it’s offside then that person is the best person placed to make that call. I agree with Paul that lots of first year referees are dying to raise the flag & sometimes you wish they didn’t. It’s really important that you try to back them, help them learn & encourage them not shut them down.

 

I understand the difficulties referees have in calling offsides. It's further a prick of a job without assistants. But for a ref to state before the game to both captains for the defenders to call offsides for him was just out of line. As I said, he got both calls so far wrong it wasn't funny. What else did he think the defenders of both teams were going to do?

You asked about YPL 2 not having decent refs. Apparently their is a huge shortage in the Hills Football Association.

I absolutely agree with the swearing bit. Young Wanderboy said something along the line of "I was behind the last  ******* defender" (which he was miles behind) - and then just made a great run from a perfect through ball), but because he used the f word, the ref game him a yellow. When he actually scored from a 2nd (equally good onside run) in the 2nd half, and the goal was disallowed, he protested even more vehemently (frustration) but didn't use the f word so he didn't get a 2nd yellow. I was waiting for it. He just was yelling out "No Way, No Way!!!"

I suppose I just feel as frustrated as him. It's been a tough season for his academy team. He's then gone on to score 2 cracking goals in 2 weeks and both have been disallowed due to poor officiating. Not just poor officiating, but diabolical. It's so frustrating sometimes watching this ****.

[Prydzopolis]

55 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

I understand the difficulties referees have in calling offsides. It's further a prick of a job without assistants. But for a ref to state before the game to both captains for the defenders to call offsides for him was just out of line. As I said, he got both calls so far wrong it wasn't funny. What else did he think the defenders of both teams were going to do?

I agree, he has shot himself in the foot with his pre match instructions but I know I’ve stuffed up more than once in a game trying to make that call.

55 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

You asked about YPL 2 not having decent refs. Apparently their is a huge shortage in the Hills Football Association.

I’m shocked at that to be honest, would have thought with the shorter season & the higher pay for referees that they’d have better coverage.

55 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

absolutely agree with the swearing bit. Young Wanderboy said something along the line of "I was behind the last  ******* defender" (which he was miles behind) - and then just made a great run from a perfect through ball), but because he used the f word, the ref game him a yellow. When he actually scored from a 2nd (equally good onside run) in the 2nd half, and the goal was disallowed, he protested even more vehemently (frustration) but didn't use the f word so he didn't get a 2nd yellow. I was waiting for it. He just was yelling out "No Way, No Way!!!

I feel like the swearing takes the decent to another level. Do you use sin bins? Surprised he didn’t use it or perhaps he felt bad that he knew his decision was bad & let him have outburst in frustration.

55 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

both have been disallowed due to poor officiating. Not just poor officiating, but diabolical. It's so frustrating sometimes watching this ****

I hate being a referee making game changing decisions. I’d say that it was poor prematch instructions rather than anything else.

Making an offside decision from the middle as a referee is a guess. Without any assistants unfortunately it’s impossible to get everyone right. It’s hard enough to get them right on the sideline as an AR let alone from the middle. Hard enough when the defenders stick up there hands & shout offside (although that’s his own fault)

I guess my point is: try not to be too hard on the bloke for getting an offside wrong from the middle. I’d hope that my teams didn’t judge my whole performance off those offsides which I got wrong.

[Paul01]

22 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

with the shorter season & the higher pay for referees that they’d have better coverage

What higher pay? 

My association is still paying the same community fees as recommended in the Football NSW circular. 

We have better coverage simply because of a reduction of teams.

As to quality, we have some youngsters in the Football NSW RDP program. They usually do NPL Youth games on Saturday so we don't get them for Saturday games which are u12 to u15s + u16 boys (all divisions), so we lose them for youth games. They usually do Sundays for u16 girls, u17 boys, intermediate men and women, all age men/women + o35s.

At the moment, we have lot of the younger referees unavailable due to exams so coverage is reduced. 

[Davo]

2 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

A simplified version is above shoulders, 100% handball & between shoulders and side, a 50-50 call.

I know that there has been a very strict interpretation especially in CL & Serie A in terms of handball especially when it comes to a shot on target. In the PL, they didn’t follow this interpretation but apparently they will come into line this season as with other areas when it comes to VAR. It’s not one I like but it’s the direction we are going with some unbelievably harsh calls. That Leeds one isn’t one of them.

It comes down to the rewrite of the handball law in 19/20. They tried to make it more black and white in terms of handball, trying to take away the interpretation in the old law. Instead I think it still requires just as much interpretation & confusion that existed in the old laws.

The new handball law, does give some latitude for players to have there hands in a natural position away from the side of the body & not be handball but it doesn’t apply to all positions.

For example, if you’re sliding into a challenge your bottom hand supporting you won’t be considered handball. The top hand however if away from the body is considered handball, naturally it won’t be by your side but it’s still a handball.

I think it also now puts the onus on the player to defend differently in the box. In Serie A, I don’t agree with the interpretation where every touch off the hand away from the body is handball but at least the players know where they stand. 

See all that just tells me it’s a poorly written law. If your arms are below your shoulders it’s not handball, except when it is. If you’re sliding and it hits one of your arms it’s not handball but if it hits the other arm it is handball (can’t wait for the VAR call where they roll back and forward frame by frame to see whether their hand is touching the ground when the ball hits it so it’s not handball, or it’s a millimetre above the ground and is handball).

It’s so excessively complicated that there’s no way your average park football player is going to understand it and no way park football referees are going to be able to apply it consistently. They’ve got a hard enough job as it is without having to be a California lawyer and figure out whether there’s an r in the month or a retrograde moon for it to be handball. If there’s so many terms and conditions you’re never going to convince a player that the decision is correct.

[Unlimited]

22 hours ago, Paul01 said:

What higher pay?

I am also interested in this higher payment that I have just been made aware of

[Prydzopolis]

On 16/09/2020 at 10:21 PM, Paul01 said:

What higher pay? 

18 hours ago, Unlimited said:

I am also interested in this higher payment that I have just been made aware of

It was my understanding via word of mouth, that the hills district referees get more than the other competitions. I heard $80 but clearly this is short of the mark, maybe when the hills were set up the referees were paid more than others?

On 16/09/2020 at 10:21 PM, Paul01 said:

At the moment, we have lot of the younger referees unavailable due to exams so coverage is reduced. 

Same as the central coast, we’ve had a big shortage of numbers, even in PL had games without assistants.

[Prydzopolis]

On 16/09/2020 at 11:19 PM, Davo said:

See all that just tells me it’s a poorly written law. If your arms are below your shoulders it’s not handball, except when it is. If you’re sliding and it hits one of your arms it’s not handball but if it hits the other arm it is handball (can’t wait for the VAR call where they roll back and forward frame by frame to see whether their hand is touching the ground when the ball hits it so it’s not handball, or it’s a millimetre above the ground and is handball).

It’s so excessively complicated that there’s no way your average park football player is going to understand it and no way park football referees are going to be able to apply it consistently. They’ve got a hard enough job as it is without having to be a California lawyer and figure out whether there’s an r in the month or a retrograde moon for it to be handball. If there’s so many terms and conditions you’re never going to convince a player that the decision is correct.

As is always the case, IFAB write or rewrite the laws & then leave it up to the referee bodies  to interpret it in the real world.

As for park football referees not being to properly understand or apply it correctly. You’re right, if these referees aren’t keeping up to date with the law changes, doing your referee courses, going to monthly referee meetings. I’m sure not every referee does or every park football referee knows the laws inside out but these laws change every year, sometimes small tweaks other time big.

Let me give you an example: They’ve just changed the law so you no longer need to raise your hand for an indirect free kick? Well, there was an offside 10m inside there own half on the sideline.

No ball had travelled anywhere that distance all game but this time, the keeper at the last minute tried to kick it outside the box but totally misjudged it. Bounced over there head & on the line the attacker possibly could have scored?

Idiot me on the sideline had already started writing it in his book taking the cue from the celebrating bench behind me. Before I had known it, referee whistle blew for a restart, ball goes up the other end & scores goes from 2-1 to 3-1 when could have easily been 2-2.

So what did we have to consider here? Did the referee have his hand up to signal IDFK? Was the ball touched before it went into the goal? What is the correct restart?

Well if the hand was raised & scored without a touch it would  be goal kick but the hand wasn’t raised so it’s a retake. Just one of the little changes in the law. I didn’t know it but it was Interesting while walking off how everyone knew all these different variations or didn’t even know at all.

It’s going to be the same for the handball law. First year is going to be the hardest, second year (already made changes for next winter season) will get easier. The average park footballer or your average footballer watcher or fan doesn’t need to understand. Your average park football referee, if he does all his education (see above) will know how to interpret it properly & consistently.

[Paul01]

45 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

It was my understanding via word of mouth, that the hills district referees get more than the other competitions. I heard $80 but clearly this is short of the mark, maybe when the hills were set up the referees were paid more than others?

Same as the central coast, we’ve had a big shortage of numbers, even in PL had games without assistants.

Community referees fees should be paid $73 for PL, $63 for all age mens/womens/o35s etc according to the circular. 

If Hills choose to pay their referees more, then all their clubs have agreed to it.

[Edinburgh]

They’ve just changed the law so you no longer need to raise your hand for an indirect free kick? 

What an absolutely stupid change!!!

I'm flabbergasted. It's idiotic, moronic, ridiculous. 

No wonder they've stuffed up handball and can't use VAR in a helpful way.

[Paul01]

8 hours ago, Edinburgh said:

They’ve just changed the law so you no longer need to raise your hand for an indirect free kick? 

What an absolutely stupid change!!!

I'm flabbergasted. It's idiotic, moronic, ridiculous. 

No wonder they've stuffed up handball and can't use VAR in a helpful way.

There has been a change with regard to amount of time a referee holds the arm up e.g. waiting for the ball to be retrieved and I remember rightly, if an IDK is taken in the defensive half by the defensive team and the ball is not going to goal the arm starts up but can go down after the IDK is taken. But the second could be an FFA or Football NSW interpretation 

Here is a quote on IDK signals.

The referee indicates an indirect free kick by raising the arm above the head; this signal is maintained until the kick has been taken and the ball touches another player, goes out of play or it is clear that a goal cannot be scored directly. An indirect free kick must be retaken if the referee fails to signal that the kick is indirect and the ball is kicked directly into the goal.