The Refereeing Thread

[mack]

Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themselves) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.

Award indirect free kick to the opposition, give a yellow card to the keeper and the guy with the afro for unsporting behaviour (showing lack of respect to the game).

[Prydzopolis]

Yeh spot on

1 hour ago, mack said:

Award indirect free kick to the opposition, give a yellow card to the keeper and the guy with the afro

One yellow for the player with the afro is enough for unsportsmanlike behavior.

[Prydzopolis]

I have a group for my fellow referees to join. The group is called refcoach

https://www.facebook.com/groups/refcoach/?ref=share

They mainly post videos to their group each week to discuss considerations in coming to decisions. They’ve also started to run workshops now, the last one a month ago was on DOGSO & one tomorrow night on severity of fouls. Mainly run on zoom but also use a few little online learning tools to make it interesting. Throughly recommend
 

[mack]

16 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Yeh spot on

One yellow for the player with the afro is enough for unsportsmanlike behavior.

I would also give a red card to the hairdresser who created the abomination haircut as well.

[sonar]

29 minutes ago, mack said:

I would also give a red card to the hairdresser who created the abomination haircut as well.

If you're handing out reds for dodgy haircuts there are a lot of contenders and their hairdressers.....lol

[Davo]

Reminds me of the Brazilian guy who used to do the seal dribble. Ended up retiring early due to a combination of managers not taking it seriously and defenders getting sick of him doing it and constantly injuring him.

[Prydzopolis]

Good article from a referee, on bias when it comes to refereeing men’s & women football 

[Unlimited]

55 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Good article from a referee, on bias when it comes to refereeing men’s & women football 

I personally struggle with the differences between men's and women's football, youth and adult football as well

For instance, arms in the back and little nudges? OK for Premier League games, OK for All Age Mens/Ladies 1 and maybe AA Div 2, any lower than that and I'll probably whistle for it

I think one thing that is missing from there (speaking from my lowly Level 3 referee badge which is probably expired now) is game management.

Imagine this:

Striker is put through one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Goalkeeper rushes out and gets the ball just in time before the striker can get there. Striker obviously trips over the goalkeeper but - fair play - goalkeeper got there first.

Being a more experienced referee (heh), I half kept watch on what the striker would do after. Goalkeeper punts the ball down the field. Striker runs up behind the goalkeeper and basically shoves the goalkeeper over when the goalkeeper wasn't looking. Two hand push.

What did I do? Red card for the striker. Violent conduct off the ball.

This was a youth football match. Now, if this was an All Age Mens match or a Premier League match, it would be a bit more iffy. Some referees would definitely show the red. Others I've seen would basically tell the striker they're on their last chance and give them a yellow. If it happened in the A-League or EPL, almost certainly just a yellow max.

I don't think inconsistent application of the laws of the game are bad. If I refereed every game like I did a Premier League game, it would be chaos. You'd have 14 year olds flying around with both feet off the ground. If I refereed every game like I did an Under 13s where little nudges are pulled up, it would be the dullest game of all time.

I think the job of the referee is to let the players play the game in a way that is safe and to their expectations of how their game will be. Premier League players have a certain idea of how rough and physical their games can get, so they should be able to play to that level. That is at the cost of an "inconsistent" application of the rules.

At local level, that pre-game briefing with the captains is important. Set that standard and let them know.

[Prydzopolis]

 

[mack]

2nd yellow in a shootout for jumping off the line (when you're supposed to give them a warning+retake first and only give a card for 2nd offence) and then the refs forgot that Orlando had used all their subs so had to take back the keeper subs they allowed. What a joke. And if you look at the 'offence' it's absolutely miniscule.

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2020-11-21-orlando-city-sc-vs-new-york-city-fc/details/video/249636

lmao.

[Edinburgh]

6 hours ago, mack said:

2nd yellow in a shootout for jumping off the line (when you're supposed to give them a warning+retake first and only give a card for 2nd offence) and then the refs forgot that Orlando had used all their subs so had to take back the keeper subs they allowed. What a joke. And if you look at the 'offence' it's absolutely miniscule.

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2020-11-21-orlando-city-sc-vs-new-york-city-fc/details/video/249636

lmao.

And as a side observation, I had to laugh when the commentator said "I'm speechless" then kept talking without drawing breath until the video ended.

[Davo]

19 hours ago, mack said:

2nd yellow in a shootout for jumping off the line (when you're supposed to give them a warning+retake first and only give a card for 2nd offence) and then the refs forgot that Orlando had used all their subs so had to take back the keeper subs they allowed. What a joke. And if you look at the 'offence' it's absolutely miniscule.

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2020-11-21-orlando-city-sc-vs-new-york-city-fc/details/video/249636

lmao.

There was more after that. After the outfield player makes the save (spare a thought for the player whose penalty was saved by an outfield player) to make it 5-5 the referee blew full time. There's a video of the whole shootout here and at 19:55 you see how everyone is standing around confused then you hear the referee blow the full time whistle, everyone goes crazy and starts celebrating, the referee listens to his earpiece for a while then calls them all back so Orlando can take their last pen to win 6-5.

[mack]

This seems like a dick move from the ref going to VAR and then allowing it despite it being nowhere near the spot of the foul.

 

[Edinburgh]

22 minutes ago, mack said:

This seems like a dick move from the ref going to VAR and then allowing it despite it being nowhere near the spot of the foul.

 

I don't see how he had any other choice

[Davo]

Weird one in the Burnley v Manchester United game in the prem yesterday.

United defender Luke Shaw makes a tackle in his defensive third which the referee deems to be legal. United make their way up the field and play the ball in behind the defense for Cavani to go one on one with the keeper. Burnley defender Robbie Brady brings him down just outside the box and the referee gives a foul and a yellow card. VAR tells the ref it's probably a red for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity and he should review it on the little TV. The referee reviews it and agrees that the Brady should be sent off. He then goes back through the build up and decides that the tackle by Shaw was a foul so he cancels the yellow for Brady, gives a yellow to Shaw and gives a free kick to Burnely just outside the United box. If the review decided that Brady shouldn't have been sent off then the original decision would have stood and they wouldn't have looked back in the build up.

Basically it was a situation where the referee was deciding whether a Burnley player committed a red card offense. If he did commit a red card offense the end result is a yellow card to a United player and a free kick to Burnley on the edge of the United penalty area. If he didn't commit a red card offense the end result is a yellow card to a Burnley player and a United free kick on the edge of the Burnley penalty area.

[mack]

https://streamable.com/6xiftb

The VAR protocol in the laws specifically says that a review for goals, pens & reds for denying a goalscoring opportunity can include how the attacking team gained possession of the ball in open play.

It comes down to the definition of a 'clear and obvious error'. I think the ref going back just to award a yellow card doesn't seem to be a clear and obvious error to me when the guy has to watch 50 slowmo replays back and forth before deciding on a yellow.

An error yes, but it's not an obvious one like upgrading a YC to a Red Card, and the protocol is specific about how you can't VAR check a missed 2nd yellow, so going from no yellow to a yellow because of an unrelated incident isn't clear and obvious to me. Which would have lead to the play going on as normal and then giving a red for the Burnley defender.

 

[sonar]

 

[HillsPanther]

Am I the only one who is sick to death of obvious offsides being allowed to play on, only to put the flag up 10 mintes later?

[marron]

is that still a product of VAR? 

[mack]

33 minutes ago, marron said:

is that still a product of VAR? 

Yes. It's been around 3 years.

Fact is with VAR the linesman should keep their flags down unless it is blatantly obvious. There's so many examples of what people think is obvious offsides, or obvious non-offside that turn out to not be so.

[marron]

it still makes no sense to me and is just a clear thing where they have it backwards.

let the ARs do their job normally. if they see offside raise the flag.

 

let the VAR review things and if they've made a massive obvious error they message the R to call it back.

that's it. why it doesn't work that way is beyond me.

[BBB]

I get really frustrated with the way they are treating the offsides. I understand why they do it, and Mack's point about the "obvious" offsides that are not is why, but the Yeboah offside tonight is what worries me. If he had actually been injured, which was quite likely with the way he contacted the keeper, then this was contact that didn't have to happen if the obvious offside was called straight away. Imagine if this happened to one of the "stars" of the league and they were injured for the season (and played for one of the favoured teams) then there would be an immediate investigation.

[GunnerWanderer]

I fail to see the downside of yeboah being injured all season 🤔

sorry yeboah nothing against you, but you are seriously lost at the moment! 

[HillsPanther]

It should be noted that many, many years ago the nrl conceded that you could not judge on a forward pass with the available cameras. The situation is exactly the same for offside in football. Unfortunately the ffa has no idea and just uses their stupid lines to justify their bogus decisions.

[HillsPanther]

There is only one person that has any chance of correctly judging an offside and that is the AR. Not some peanut looking at monitors showing camera views that are highly unlikely to be in line with the play.

[Paul01]

8 hours ago, HillsPanther said:

There is only one person that has any chance of correctly judging an offside and that is the AR. Not some peanut looking at monitors showing camera views that are highly unlikely to be in line with the play.

You are correct so long as the AR is correctly positioned. And the ARs this season have been pretty good.

Last week, the VAR did overrule an AR on an offside. Felt for the AR

 

 

[HillsPanther]

25 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

You are correct so long as the AR is correctly positioned. And the ARs this season have been pretty good.

Last week, the VAR did overrule an AR on an offside. Felt for the AR

 

 

The AR has the best chance, but I admit may not always be positioned properly. But still a lot more chance than a fixed camera. 

[Paul01]

7 minutes ago, HillsPanther said:

The AR has the best chance, but I admit may not always be positioned properly. But still a lot more chance than a fixed camera. 

To avoid parallex error, you need a fixed camera on the penalty box or even the top of the D AND a fixed camera about 5 m from the centre circle towards the goal. 

[Davo]

Strange call in the United v Chelsea game. Looked like a clear handball reviewed by the VAR and not given.

Luke Shaw was interviewed after the match and asked about it. Sounds like he's claiming that the VAR told the referee it was a pen but the referee told Maguire "if I say it's a pen it's going to cause a lot of talk about it after". Solskjaer also seemed to have confirmed having a similar conversation with Maguire after the match.

[mack]

United player knocked the Chelsea players arm just before the handball. That's all I can think of to no pen that.

Or the Refs listened to Klopp whining in the media about United getting too many penalties.