Politics Thread

[ManfredSchaefer]

The Fat Looney is at it again...

 

[POUMista]

http://theunaustralian.tumblr.com/post/60317992454/comics-sue-clive-palmer-for-theft-of-material

 

Comics sue Clive Palmer for theft of material

Australia’s comics have launched a collective class action against mining magnate and candidate for prime minister Clive Palmer, alleging the so-called professor is taking all of their material.

 

In a statement released today, the comics said: “The elections are always an opportunity for comic hacks to mock political hacks. It is a basic contract, but rather than provide us with material, Clive Palmer is performing all of the best Clive Palmer jokes himself! We were willing to overlook a number of unfortunately hilarious Clive Palmer jokes Clive has performed, but when he happily twerked his arse like Miley Cyrus on Kyle Sandilands’ radio show, we had to act.  

 

“We respectfully request that Clive Palmer cease immediately performing his wide array of Clive Palmer jokes until September 8.â€

 

Author: Carlo Sands

www.twitter.com/carlosands

[AEK]

The Fat Looney is at it again...

 

 

 

WHAT........THE.........****.......WAS.........THAT...........?

[ManfredSchaefer]

 

The Fat Looney is at it again...

WHAT........THE.........****.......WAS.........THAT...........?

And apparently about 6% of voters are thinking of buying the loon's message tomorrow....

 

FFS!!!!

Edited September 6, 2013 by ManfredSchaefer

[Wanderer74]

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

[marron]

It's queensland.

If you are from queensland and able to shake your fist at either those who control you or those who are different, sometimes both, you will do well.

[Wanderer74]

It was the immigrants fault about the bears. Elect Mayor Quimby in QLD, he would do well

[wendybr]

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

 

Well, the collective IQ of the Parliament took a serious nose dive a couple of months back, with the exit of MANY smart, capable and principled Labor politicians. Adding Clive Palmer to our nightly TV viewing, along with Julie Bishop, Bronwyn Bishop, Phillip Ruddock and who knows how many other Liberals from the Howard Govt, (who, I guess will be in our faces for the next few years)  probably doesn't make that much difference. 

 

To me, the Australian public (well the Coalition voters) has just had the most massive con job pulled, and not just in Qld!!

[Balkanite]

 

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

 

Well, the collective IQ of the Parliament took a serious nose dive a couple of months back, with the exit of MANY smart, capable and principled Labor politicians. Adding Clive Palmer to our nightly TV viewing, along with Julie Bishop, Bronwyn Bishop, Phillip Ruddock and who knows how many other Liberals from the Howard Govt, (who, I guess will in our faces for the next few years)  probably doesn't make that much difference. 

 

To me, the Australian public (well the Coalition voters) has just had the most massive con job pulled, and not just in Qld!!

 

 

Someone who understands and see's it for the way it is, Welldone Wendy!

[pseudonym]

The AEC offers public funding of election campaigns.

 

For every formal first preference a candidate receives, the AEC will reimburse that candidate $2.50.

 

http://www.aec.gov.au/parties_and_representatives/public_funding/Current_Funding_Rate.htm

 

Clive just became a little bit wealthier

[wendybr]

 

 

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

 

Well, the collective IQ of the Parliament took a serious nose dive a couple of months back, with the exit of MANY smart, capable and principled Labor politicians. Adding Clive Palmer to our nightly TV viewing, along with Julie Bishop, Bronwyn Bishop, Phillip Ruddock and who knows how many other Liberals from the Howard Govt, (who, I guess will be in our faces for the next few years)  probably doesn't make that much difference. 

 

To me, the Australian public (well the Coalition voters) has just had the most massive con job pulled, and not just in Qld!!

 

 

Someone who understands and see's it for the way it is, Welldone Wendy!

 

 

Thanks Balkanite.  Mack will come after us...but I can't resist.   Some of the few positives to emerge since the election for me have been

• Abbott in hiding...trying to figure out some policies
• Sophie Mirabella out - I HOPE
• Western Sydney seats not all turning to the No-alition
• and best of all, meeting, speaking to and knowing that probably at least half the Australian population is as sad as I am about the election results. Cheers!

[Balkanite]

 

 

 

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

 

Well, the collective IQ of the Parliament took a serious nose dive a couple of months back, with the exit of MANY smart, capable and principled Labor politicians. Adding Clive Palmer to our nightly TV viewing, along with Julie Bishop, Bronwyn Bishop, Phillip Ruddock and who knows how many other Liberals from the Howard Govt, (who, I guess will be in our faces for the next few years)  probably doesn't make that much difference. 

 

To me, the Australian public (well the Coalition voters) has just had the most massive con job pulled, and not just in Qld!!

 

 

Someone who understands and see's it for the way it is, Welldone Wendy!

 

 

Thanks Balkanite.  Mack will come after us...but I can't resist.   Some of the few positives to emerge since the election for me have been

• Abbott in hiding...trying to figure out some policies
• Sophie Mirabella out - I HOPE
• Western Sydney seats not all turning to the No-alition
• and best of all, meeting, speaking to and knowing that probably at least half the Australian population is as sad as I am about the election results. Cheers!

 

 

My Electorate had an 8.97% swing to ALP ... hehe

[wendybr]

 

 

 

 

Clive Palmer looks like he will win his QLD seat of Fairfax. As well as this Glen Lazarus seems like he will win a spot in the Senate. WHAT THE F*** Australia. Why would anyone in the right mind vote for him. His vote will not go to anything but it will give the media more of a reason to put him on my TV screen. And I just can't take that. Bloody thank you QUEENSLAND.

 

Well, the collective IQ of the Parliament took a serious nose dive a couple of months back, with the exit of MANY smart, capable and principled Labor politicians. Adding Clive Palmer to our nightly TV viewing, along with Julie Bishop, Bronwyn Bishop, Phillip Ruddock and who knows how many other Liberals from the Howard Govt, (who, I guess will be in our faces for the next few years)  probably doesn't make that much difference. 

 

To me, the Australian public (well the Coalition voters) has just had the most massive con job pulled, and not just in Qld!!

 

 

Someone who understands and see's it for the way it is, Welldone Wendy!

 

 

Thanks Balkanite.  Mack will come after us...but I can't resist.   Some of the few positives to emerge since the election for me have been

• Abbott in hiding...trying to figure out some policies
• Sophie Mirabella out - I HOPE
• Western Sydney seats not all turning to the No-alition
• and best of all, meeting, speaking to and knowing that probably at least half the Australian population is as sad as I am about the election results. Cheers!

 

 

My Electorate had an 8.97% swing to ALP ... hehe

 

 

The collective IQ of your electorate must be high!!! 

[westofcentre]

The issue with Labor was it was a train wreck. Poor planning,leadership issues cost blow outs. Continuing the huge debt accumulation of this govt will be putting a noose around the neck of future generations.

 

Cost blow outs and increased bureacracy means our society becomes inefficient and is not productive enough to support itself because money goes into propping up poor policy and the added govt jobs or otherwise used to prop these policies up.

 

The sad thing for Labor is they are losing good capable politicians who have lost their seats or becone dissolutioned with the party infighting and politics.

 

You are left with the fools with little real world experience but adept in weasling and undermining their way to the top.

 

Mr Abbot does not have the public sectors to sell off as Howard did to pay off debt. Get readu for some slash and burn.

[wendybr]

^^^ Sadly have to agree with some of what you've said, Westofcentre, but whilst the party was a train wreck in terms of disunity and leadership in-fighting, the last Parliament, whilst UGLY, was not a train wreck,  and successfully passed over 500 items of worthwhile legislation.  No one is happy about the blowout of debt, but special circumstances (GFC etc) led significantly to this blowout, and by the standard of other developed nations, the state of the nation's finances is nothing like a train wreck either.

 

Despite the "emergency" and "crisis" state of the nation according to the No-alition,  some well known shock jocks and the Murdock press, how come Parliament is not resuming for many weeks? Of course government has to be hugely responsible about the management of a nation's finances, but  national values, and so many issues beside $$$$$$s,  come into what makes a good government.  

 

I just don't see a talented, forward looking and inspiring group of people at the helm of this new govt, sad to say.

 

 

PS  Hey Mack.... When you next get around to checking out this thread, which was political in a way from the start, pleeease   can we keep this thread going, despite its potential for disagreement.  IMO it is really not fair to allow others to talk about their own interests beyond football, such as wrestling, all sorts of music, motor racing etc etc, and not trust other forum users to be able to discuss something as interesting (to some of us at least) as politics.

 

There are so many intelligent, articulate, well informed people on the forums.  We can agree to disagree on lots of issues without too much   .

I, for one, enjoy having a chance to discuss more serious issues.

[Unlimited]

On the economy, I personally found it quite humourous how in some sections of the media, it was like "OMG BUDGET DEFICIT. NO NO NO NO NO NO" but I'm doing a Macroeconomics course and the textbook is like "you go australia, dat keynesian fiscal policy works a charm, eh?"

 

 

as a young impressionable university student, i dont know what to believe anymore

[wendybr]

Well Unlimited, when you figure it all out, you can let the rest of us know!! 

[ManfredSchaefer]

On the economy, I personally found it quite humourous how in some sections of the media, it was like "OMG BUDGET DEFICIT. NO NO NO NO NO NO" but I'm doing a Macroeconomics course and the textbook is like "you go australia, dat keynesian fiscal policy works a charm, eh?"

 

 

as a young impressionable university student, i dont know what to believe anymore

 

When I was studying Economics back in the days of the Wages Accord and the first few months of Hawke & Keating the mantra from my economics teacher was that economists present models that only work in a perfect world. So I guess you could say that you're probably no less qualified to give an insight on economics in admitting you don't know what to believe than those that say they do 

 

Of course if we want lessons on economic theory from the Fat Fool of Noosa this would mean restricting entrants to the economy to 5,000, blaming Frank Lowy for everything that goes wrong, building your fortune on Chinese investors who may not actually have the dosh needed, then pissing it all away on boats, bribes and brontosauri...

[westofcentre]

Wendybr - The Labor party is meant to be a progressive social democratic party. Some of Australia's greatest achievements came under the Labor party because it is forward thinking and ahead of its time. 

Conversely some of the most expensive financial disasters have also come about. For most of its history Australia has had Liberal govt because the public sees them as better economic managers. Labor gets in usually at times of plenty, where people feel we have the money to spend.

 

The problem with the argument "well our debt is still smaller then other countries" is the philosophies behind that argument. 

Firstly we were following the same economic model as the EU. If there is one area whom you do not want to follow when it comes to economy and debt it is the EU,

 

Secondly this govt showed not even the slightest ability to curve their expenditure and balance the books. The debt itself was worse because of poor (although well intentioned) policies and role outs. 

 

The Building the Education revolution cost nearly double what it should have. Set top boxes for seniors - was more expensive then going out and buying a set top box.

 

Then there is the blow out for border protection, which cost us billions. We have a situation, expenditure that simply didnt exist before. We have had to employ hundreds of people to cope with the current situation (that is not productive employment it is bureacracy)

 

Mining tax, Carbon Tax etc - whatever your thoughts on them, confidence went out of the business community. It is business' that employ people. 

 

The problem is Wendy these politicians have their whole lives in the "party politic". They have spent minimal time in the real world (I think there was a stat that the previous labor state govt - the average length of time working in the private sector was 2 years!). 

 

So they have no idea how business is run, no experience - yet they are made Minister of finance, Minister of Education. Its like me becoming Minister of Tourism because I won my area and was chosen by the PM for the role. What do I know about tourism? Yet I know have a role that affects the entire nation.

 

This was compounded when about a decade ago politics became - well about politics and media, perception rather then real world results. 

 

These ministries got rid of the experienced advisors, middle management who had experience in the industries and could guide good decision making. These inexperienced ministers now made the decisions, and it was often knee jerk reactions to media reports. 

 

Thus we have the mess we are in now. All good in theory - disastrous in practice/implementation/role out. The political parties treat the voters like idiots. 

 

But ultimately it is not people like yourself you decide elections. It is the undecideds. The 8% who dont want to vote. They just vote cos they have to. They vote not for the better party - but the party who has p issed them off the least. This is why you had Tony Abbot and Rudd talking down their chances. Rudd said - "if an election was held tomorrow we would lose". He says this because he knows the "8%" will then look at the Libs as the tall poppy and want to bring them down, therefore vote against them. Abbott employed similar tactice. 

Edited September 14, 2013 by westofcentre

[ManfredSchaefer]

#Inb4thelockedthreadbyMack...

 

Though it should stay open...

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

^^^ Sadly have to agree with some of what you've said, Westofcentre, but whilst the party was a train wreck in terms of disunity and leadership in-fighting, the last Parliament, whilst UGLY, was not a train wreck,  and successfully passed over 500 items of worthwhile legislation.  No one is happy about the blowout of debt, but special circumstances (GFC etc) led significantly to this blowout, and by the standard of other developed nations, the state of the nation's finances is nothing like a train wreck either.

 

Despite the "emergency" and "crisis" state of the nation according to the No-alition,  some well known shock jocks and the Murdock press, how come Parliament is not resuming for many weeks? Of course government has to be hugely responsible about the management of a nation's finances, but  national values, and so many issues beside $$$$$$s,  come into what makes a good government.  

 

I just don't see a talented, forward looking and inspiring group of people at the helm of this new govt, sad to say.

 

 

PS  Hey Mack.... When you next get around to checking out this thread, which was political in a way from the start, pleeease   can we keep this thread going, despite its potential for disagreement.  IMO it is really not fair to allow others to talk about their own interests beyond football, such as wrestling, all sorts of music, motor racing etc etc, and not trust other forum users to be able to discuss something as interesting (to some of us at least) as politics.

 

There are so many intelligent, articulate, well informed people on the forums.  We can agree to disagree on lots of issues without too much   .

I, for one, enjoy having a chance to discuss more serious issues.

 

unfortunately wendy, politics is only something that can be discussed in a civil manner with people that have similar views and opinions. its no different to a discussion about religion.

 

personally im quite thankful that mack likes to lock topics like this - because i'm ******* sick of politics and how it gets shoved down the throats of everyone forcing people to have an opinion on issues they know little to nothing about. (not everybody of course, and no offence to people that do know what they're talking about.)

 

on a side note manfred, if clive was prime minister, and abbot was the opposition - clive could stop the boats with his cloned dinosaurs, but would tony abbot accept they exist? 

[ManfredSchaefer]

 

^^^ Sadly have to agree with some of what you've said, Westofcentre, but whilst the party was a train wreck in terms of disunity and leadership in-fighting, the last Parliament, whilst UGLY, was not a train wreck,  and successfully passed over 500 items of worthwhile legislation.  No one is happy about the blowout of debt, but special circumstances (GFC etc) led significantly to this blowout, and by the standard of other developed nations, the state of the nation's finances is nothing like a train wreck either.

 

Despite the "emergency" and "crisis" state of the nation according to the No-alition,  some well known shock jocks and the Murdock press, how come Parliament is not resuming for many weeks? Of course government has to be hugely responsible about the management of a nation's finances, but  national values, and so many issues beside $$$$$$s,  come into what makes a good government.  

 

I just don't see a talented, forward looking and inspiring group of people at the helm of this new govt, sad to say.

 

 

PS  Hey Mack.... When you next get around to checking out this thread, which was political in a way from the start, pleeease   can we keep this thread going, despite its potential for disagreement.  IMO it is really not fair to allow others to talk about their own interests beyond football, such as wrestling, all sorts of music, motor racing etc etc, and not trust other forum users to be able to discuss something as interesting (to some of us at least) as politics.

 

There are so many intelligent, articulate, well informed people on the forums.  We can agree to disagree on lots of issues without too much   .

I, for one, enjoy having a chance to discuss more serious issues.

 

unfortunately wendy, politics is only something that can be discussed in a civil manner with people that have similar views and opinions. its no different to a discussion about religion.

 

personally im quite thankful that mack likes to lock topics like this - because i'm ****ing sick of politics and how it gets shoved down the throats of everyone forcing people to have an opinion on issues they know little to nothing about. (not everybody of course, and no offence to people that do know what they're talking about.)

 

on a side note manfred, if clive was prime minister, and abbot was the opposition - clive could stop the boats with his cloned dinosaurs, but would tony abbot accept they exist? 

 

 

Hmmm, I think Tony would agree the boats and the dinosaurs exist but he would blame the ABC for their existence. Meanwhile Clive would on the return of all those refugees/asylum seekers on boats back to Indonesia he would then sell them a ticket on his Titanic II and have them sailed to his latest mining investment/golf course resort, whereupon they would not arrive as Frank Lowy would have installed a Westfield Iceberg on the ship's course sinking CP's venture and making Clive turn to a Rugby League sponsored immigration scheme. Meanwhile the Greens would block Tony's efforts to have the Dinosaurs sold off and instead lobby Clive to have them sent to Tokyo in a Godzilla-like effort to stop Japanese whaling, and KRudd would see if he could get a selfie pic with said cloned T-Rex. And Bill Shorten will stab the dinosaurs in the back and instead vote for the despatch of the Essendon and St Kilda teams on a mad Monday trip to Yokohama...

Edited September 14, 2013 by ManfredSchaefer

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

 

 

^^^ Sadly have to agree with some of what you've said, Westofcentre, but whilst the party was a train wreck in terms of disunity and leadership in-fighting, the last Parliament, whilst UGLY, was not a train wreck,  and successfully passed over 500 items of worthwhile legislation.  No one is happy about the blowout of debt, but special circumstances (GFC etc) led significantly to this blowout, and by the standard of other developed nations, the state of the nation's finances is nothing like a train wreck either.

 

Despite the "emergency" and "crisis" state of the nation according to the No-alition,  some well known shock jocks and the Murdock press, how come Parliament is not resuming for many weeks? Of course government has to be hugely responsible about the management of a nation's finances, but  national values, and so many issues beside $$$$$$s,  come into what makes a good government.  

 

I just don't see a talented, forward looking and inspiring group of people at the helm of this new govt, sad to say.

 

 

PS  Hey Mack.... When you next get around to checking out this thread, which was political in a way from the start, pleeease   can we keep this thread going, despite its potential for disagreement.  IMO it is really not fair to allow others to talk about their own interests beyond football, such as wrestling, all sorts of music, motor racing etc etc, and not trust other forum users to be able to discuss something as interesting (to some of us at least) as politics.

 

There are so many intelligent, articulate, well informed people on the forums.  We can agree to disagree on lots of issues without too much   .

I, for one, enjoy having a chance to discuss more serious issues.

 

unfortunately wendy, politics is only something that can be discussed in a civil manner with people that have similar views and opinions. its no different to a discussion about religion.

 

personally im quite thankful that mack likes to lock topics like this - because i'm ****ing sick of politics and how it gets shoved down the throats of everyone forcing people to have an opinion on issues they know little to nothing about. (not everybody of course, and no offence to people that do know what they're talking about.)

 

on a side note manfred, if clive was prime minister, and abbot was the opposition - clive could stop the boats with his cloned dinosaurs, but would tony abbot accept they exist? 

 

 

Hmmm, I think Tony would agree the boats and the dinosaurs exist but he would blame the ABC for their existence. Meanwhile Clive would on the return of all those refugees/asylum seekers on boats back to Indonesia he would then sell them a ticket on his Titanic II and have them sailed to his latest mining investment/golf course resort, whereupon they would not arrive as Frank Lowy would have installed a Westfield Iceberg on the ship's course sinking CP's venture and making Clive turn to a Rugby League sponsored immigration scheme. Meanwhile the Greens would block Tony's efforts to have the Dinosaurs sold off and instead lobby Clive to have them sent to Tokyo in a Godzilla-like effort to stop Japanese whaling, and KRudd would see if he could get a selfie pic with said cloned T-Rex. And Bill Shorten will stab the dinosaurs in the back and instead vote for the despatch of the Essendon and St Kilda teams on a mad Monday trip to Yokohama...

 

 

that would've my second answer, almost to the letter.

[wendybr]

Wendybr - The Labor party is meant to be a progressive social democratic party. Some of Australia's greatest achievements came under the Labor party because it is forward thinking and ahead of its time. 

Conversely some of the most expensive financial disasters have also come about. For most of its history Australia has had Liberal govt because the public sees them as better economic managers. Labor gets in usually at times of plenty, where people feel we have the money to spend.

 

The problem with the argument "well our debt is still smaller then other countries" is the philosophies behind that argument. 

 

Firstly we were following the same economic model as the EU. If there is one area whom you do not want to follow when it comes to economy and debt it is the EU,

 

Secondly this govt showed not even the slightest ability to curve their expenditure and balance the books. The debt itself was worse because of poor (although well intentioned) policies and role outs. 

 

The Building the Education revolution cost nearly double what it should have. Set top boxes for seniors - was more expensive then going out and buying a set top box.

 

Then there is the blow out for border protection, which cost us billions. We have a situation, expenditure that simply didnt exist before. We have had to employ hundreds of people to cope with the current situation (that is not productive employment it is bureacracy)

 

Mining tax, Carbon Tax etc - whatever your thoughts on them, confidence went out of the business community. It is business' that employ people. 

 

The problem is Wendy these politicians have their whole lives in the "party politic". They have spent minimal time in the real world (I think there was a stat that the previous labor state govt - the average length of time working in the private sector was 2 years!). 

 

So they have no idea how business is run, no experience - yet they are made Minister of finance, Minister of Education. Its like me becoming Minister of Tourism because I won my area and was chosen by the PM for the role. What do I know about tourism? Yet I know have a role that affects the entire nation.

 

This was compounded when about a decade ago politics became - well about politics and media, perception rather then real world results. 

 

These ministries got rid of the experienced advisors, middle management who had experience in the industries and could guide good decision making. These inexperienced ministers now made the decisions, and it was often knee jerk reactions to media reports. 

 

Thus we have the mess we are in now. All good in theory - disastrous in practice/implementation/role out. The political parties treat the voters like idiots. 

 

But ultimately it is not people like yourself you decide elections. It is the undecideds. The 8% who dont want to vote. They just vote cos they have to. They vote not for the better party - but the party who has p issed them off the least. This is why you had Tony Abbot and Rudd talking down their chances. Rudd said - "if an election was held tomorrow we would lose". He says this because he knows the "8%" will then look at the Libs as the tall poppy and want to bring them down, therefore vote against them. Abbott employed similar tactice. 

 

Again, I don't disagree with most of most of what you say here. I know we have this sort of pendulum cycle in Australia. The Labor Party dreams big, changes things (not always for the better, but as you say, it's well intentioned) spends money, runs up debt, then the pendulum swings and the Libs  reign in debt and notch up surpluses, but that's about all.  

 

If what you say is true about the lack of business experience in the ALP - which I have no doubt it is, might not the same apply to the appointment of Liberal candidates (people from business and maybe legal background)  and then asking them to make decisions about the environment, education (most of them probably went to private schools) indigenous issues, welfare programs, health.... There is probably an imbalance on both sides.

 

I do wish that you could actually find something ...anything.....to like/admire /respect/ be inspired by about most Coalition  politicians, .... that you could feel that they actually cared about anything besides $$$$$$$$$.

[wendybr]

 

^^^ Sadly have to agree with some of what you've said, Westofcentre, but whilst the party was a train wreck in terms of disunity and leadership in-fighting, the last Parliament, whilst UGLY, was not a train wreck,  and successfully passed over 500 items of worthwhile legislation.  No one is happy about the blowout of debt, but special circumstances (GFC etc) led significantly to this blowout, and by the standard of other developed nations, the state of the nation's finances is nothing like a train wreck either.

 

Despite the "emergency" and "crisis" state of the nation according to the No-alition,  some well known shock jocks and the Murdock press, how come Parliament is not resuming for many weeks? Of course government has to be hugely responsible about the management of a nation's finances, but  national values, and so many issues beside $$$$$$s,  come into what makes a good government.  

 

I just don't see a talented, forward looking and inspiring group of people at the helm of this new govt, sad to say.

 

 

PS  Hey Mack.... When you next get around to checking out this thread, which was political in a way from the start, pleeease   can we keep this thread going, despite its potential for disagreement.  IMO it is really not fair to allow others to talk about their own interests beyond football, such as wrestling, all sorts of music, motor racing etc etc, and not trust other forum users to be able to discuss something as interesting (to some of us at least) as politics.

 

There are so many intelligent, articulate, well informed people on the forums.  We can agree to disagree on lots of issues without too much   .

I, for one, enjoy having a chance to discuss more serious issues.

 

unfortunately wendy, politics is only something that can be discussed in a civil manner with people that have similar views and opinions. its no different to a discussion about religion.

 

personally im quite thankful that mack likes to lock topics like this - because i'm ****ing sick of politics and how it gets shoved down the throats of everyone forcing people to have an opinion on issues they know little to nothing about. (not everybody of course, and no offence to people that do know what they're talking about.)

 

 

 Guy...you're a clever, quick witted person whose posts I often find very entertaining. You should just not check out a thread with any possibility of political discussion if you're sick of politics. I would NEVER check out a thread related to wrestling, motor racing  etc etc, but I it's great that people who wish to exchange their views on these topics have the chance to do so.

 

I'm pretty sure most of the people attracted to a thread which focuses on a discussion of politics are able to discuss things in a civil way.  But if not, there are plenty of other threads where differences of opinion can elicit rather abrupt and harsh responses. I've had a couple of forum-ites jump down my throat in a fairly "uncivil" manner....it didn't hurt that much . Not really....

[westofcentre]

I am from a Labor family - but the way I see it - Labor needs to redefine itself and break away from the union/otherwise infighting while still holding onto its values of equality and a fair go. 

 

You are right Wendy - the Libs lean towards big business - it is their constituency. They believe that a healthy business will mean a healthy workforce. This is true, however I do believe there needs to be at least some government input or else we get exploitation.

In saying this, I think the Rudd/Gillard govt went to far in its manipulation of the economy. They shouldnt get "that" involved because they are not good at it. 

Look at pink bats. they created a false demand by way of subsidies. When they realised they couldn't afford it - they pulled the funding. In the mean time these business' had brought material in, based on the artificial demand Labor created, and went bankrupt. The people they employed found themselves out of the job. 

 

Labor is suppose to help the workers, and this is where I had an issue with this Labor Govt. They have pandered to the unemployed because they know if people get money off you, they will vote for you.

 

30 years ago, for every 1 person on the dole there were 20 working. Now the ratio is 1 to 6. Unemployment has become a way of life for entire communities in WS now into their third generation. The working class bares the burden of supporting these growing communities. Here again Labor has failed to look after the workers. 

 

As mentioned Labor is a social democratic party. How does this fit into the modern world? Look at the Scandanavian country's who have social democracies and until recently very good ones. They have an advanced economy which helps. The reason it also works is because they have a community based on what is called a "protestant work ethic" - ie you work and pay taxes and God will reward you.

 

Recently though they have experienced a large influx of migrants who have inherent distrust in Govts, and seek to exploit the welfare system. This is starting to put a strain on their social democratic way of governance.

So too in Australia, (not only with migrants but Australians too) we have a growing welfare class which is putting a strain on the rest of the nation.

 

It is an interesting point you make about Libs and the environment, Indegenous etc. People generally tend to get more conservative as they get older, but scientists have also found that in many people, depending on whether your left or right side of the brain is dominant, will influence how you vote. 

Libs tend to be factual. Ie - income, expenditure, tight budget surplus end of. Illegal Migrants - cost. Carbon tax - cost. 

 

Labor voters tend to have more an emotional approach to issues that can overide the raw logic. Ie - Boat People need a home, need to protect the environment. 

Edited September 14, 2013 by westofcentre

[westofcentre]

ps - Regarding Tony Abbott - he is not a popular leader. It is just that Labor was so bad in this term of Government, that Abbott looked good. 

 

Rudd/Gillard did not have the unifying power of say a Bob Hawke. 

[ManfredSchaefer]

Okay, time to put more oar in before the locked gates go up...

 

I was once a hard core Coalition supporter because I grew up in a household where Gough Whitlam was seen as the anti-christ and strangely enough whilst my family came from Labor backgrounds they seemed to have more interest in conservative politics. For most of the 80s and early 90s I would vote Coalition, which in the old days meant in Lindsay voting against Ross Free & Ron Mulock (who were ALP fixtures for donkeys years). Free used to perennially run his campaigns on getting Penrith into the 02 STD district and it never happened, whilst Mulock was one of the old hands of the local ALP big-wigs. 

 

Then, when I went up to Armidale and studied there I voted for Ian Sinclair & the Nats because to be blunt my vote meant SFA for what was a safe seat for him. I did have my conservative views peeled back a bit when I studied Gough's tenure as PM and that made me open to Labor. That didn;t change my vote but I began to be more open to their message.

 

Jump forward to the GST election and thats when I became a swinging voter, as I was back in Sydney and no longer in a seat where my vote mattered bugger all. Since then, as the Liberals have swung further to the right I have gone the other way and voted more often for the ALP (at least in the House of Reps), although in the last few state elections voting Liberal was a pleasure (the state ALP were and possibly still are worse than the Sopranos). I am more open to the centrist policies of the ALP nationally (which is where they sit now, instead of the centre left or more traditionally truly left), however I found so much of their policies and personalities particularly repugnant this last election. However for every bad aspect of the ALP the Libs & Nats seemed worse, which made me even think about the Greens.

 

Right now because of the melange and confusion over ideologies and policies and personalities none of the current batch of pollies on any side of the fence hold any attraction for me so I will be a swinging voter for a long time to come. One thing I am definitive in though; I cannot abide Clive Palmer and his farking populist corporate demagoguery, which places him scarcely above the bulldust we get from the likes of right or left wing extremists, whether they be Marxists, One Nation, Family First or Fred Nile. In this country we have gotten to where we are not because of extremists and populists, but through the hard graft of old style ALP and small L Liberals who understand compromise and cooperation for the good of the country is a must. Sadly no one has that attitude nowadays... 

[wendybr]

I am from a Labor family - but the way I see it - Labor needs to redefine itself and break away from the union/otherwise infighting while still holding onto its values of equality and a fair go. 

 

You are right Wendy - the Libs lean towards big business - it is their constituency. They believe that a healthy business will mean a healthy workforce. This is true, however I do believe there needs to be at least some government input or else we get exploitation.

In saying this, I think the Rudd/Gillard govt went to far in its manipulation of the economy. They shouldnt get "that" involved because they are not good at it. 

 

Look at pink bats. they created a false demand by way of subsidies. When they realised they couldn't afford it - they pulled the funding. In the mean time these business' had brought material in, based on the artificial demand Labor created, and went bankrupt. The people they employed found themselves out of the job. 

 

Labor is suppose to help the workers, and this is where I had an issue with this Labor Govt. They have pandered to the unemployed because they know if people get money off you, they will vote for you.

 

30 years ago, for every 1 person on the dole there were 20 working. Now the ratio is 1 to 6. Unemployment has become a way of life for entire communities in WS now into their third generation. The working class bares the burden of supporting these growing communities. Here again Labor has failed to look after the workers. 

 

As mentioned Labor is a social democratic party. How does this fit into the modern world? Look at the Scandanavian country's who have social democracies and until recently very good ones. They have an advanced economy which helps. The reason it also works is because they have a community based on what is called a "protestant work ethic" - ie you work and pay taxes and God will reward you.

 

Recently though they have experienced a large influx of migrants who have inherent distrust in Govts, and seek to exploit the welfare system. This is starting to put a strain on their social democratic way of governance.

 

So too in Australia, (not only with migrants but Australians too) we have a growing welfare class which is putting a strain on the rest of the nation.

 

It is an interesting point you make about Libs and the environment, Indegenous etc. People generally tend to get more conservative as they get older, but scientists have also found that in many people, depending on whether your left or right side of the brain is dominant, will influence how you vote. 

Libs tend to be factual. Ie - income, expenditure, tight budget surplus end of. Illegal Migrants - cost. Carbon tax - cost. 

 

Labor voters tend to have more an emotional approach to issues that can overide the raw logic. Ie - Boat People need a home, need to protect the environment. 

 

That last point is very obvious now that you point it out!  Could well go some way to explaining the big gulf in attitudes. I have been enjoying your insights!

[marron]

scientists have also found that in many people, depending on whether your left or right side of the brain is dominant, will influence how you vote.

 

Libs tend to be factual. Ie - income, expenditure, tight budget surplus end of. Illegal Migrants - cost. Carbon tax - cost.

 

 

 

Labor voters tend to have more an emotional approach to issues that can overide the raw logic. Ie - Boat People need a home, need to protect the environment.

Suggest you have a read of this:

 

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/are-you-scared-yet-the-mugging-of-the-australian-electorate/691/

 

Edited September 14, 2013 by ciudadmarron