Sydney Stadiums Discussion (Not Parramatta)

[FCWanderers]

Roosters, Waratahs, Sydney FC reject new 55,000 seat stadium at Moore Park

 

Phil RothfieldThe Daily Telegraph

 

JOINT MEDIA STATEMENT

 

The three longstanding major hirers of Allianz Stadium — Sydney FC, NSW Waratahs and Sydney Roosters — have issued a response to today’s comments from Premier Baird regarding the proposed redevelopment at Allianz Stadium.

 

Up until today, it was the clear understanding of all three clubs that there would be a new stadium built — without interruption to Allianz Stadium’s operations. If the New South Wales Government is unable to achieve this, then our overriding preference is for a major renovation of the existing stadium.

 

We strongly oppose a new stadium on the existing site, as a forced relocation out of Allianz Stadium for four seasons will be disastrous for all three clubs, their respective Members and fans.

 

The damage that would be caused to the three clubs would extend well-beyond the four year construction period, as it would take many years to fully recover and would require major levels of compensation for impacted clubs.

 

It is well-known in the sports industry that maintaining crowds is a worldwide challenge which would only be exacerbated if an Allianz Stadium shut down for a period of time were to occur. Research indicates that when teams are displaced from their established home ground, the impact is negative and of a long-term nature. Some clubs never recover.

 

With modern construction techniques, there are a number of examples of major stadia that have remained operational throughout their renovation, including Adelaide Oval, the Melbourne Cricket Ground and Sydney Cricket Ground.

 

The three major hirers request that the SCG Trust publicly supports this position and we would strongly urge Premier Baird to take into account the full extent of the impact a forced relocation would have on all three of our clubs.

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/footy-form/roosters-waratahs-sydney-fc-reject-new-55000-seat-stadium-at-moore-park/news-story/3a6fc004c41636d1f8e6222490af3049

[dcrow]

In one way good they are putting up a fight but on the other hands what a bunch of sooks "we are going to be displaced for four years" boohoo. Do you hear the grubs out west sooking. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by dcrow

[Nnnnnathan12]

'It is well-known in the sports industry that maintaining crowds is a worldwide challenge'

Well for them it might be

[Victory]

From an outsider looking in, this is a complete shambles.

 

**** me dead.

[Nnnnnathan12]

Whens the next state election so we can vote these flogs out?

[West13]

The sibling of a very prominent MP in the govt is an associate of mine. Saw them the other day. Told them to tell their sibling to sort this **** out and make sure Parra gets built.

Reply was a blank stare.

[FCWanderers]

What has Stuart Ayres and the SCG trust been telling the tenants of Allianz stadium whatever it was it doesn't match what was decided in State cabinet by the government?

Edited April 11, 2016 by FCWanderers

[btron3000]

Well the tide surely has turned now. Without the support of the tenants, there is no way that this will go ahead. Surely!

From an outsider looking in, this is a complete shambles.

 

**** me dead.

Welcome to Sydney my friend, where if you're not hobnobbing with the right people at the right event, you don't get squat.

 

Now you can see why we hate them so much Victory. Eastern Sydney, the Waratahs, the Roosters, they all represent this crap. Now because the Premier is standing up to them and their elite mates (or more likely avoiding a bigger fight and fiasco), they whinge.

 

The dodgy politicians and SCG Trust men are losing the war and the poor eastern suburbs teams aren't getting their way.

 

Boo-*******-hoo.

[FegyverTimot]

All this carry on is going to be good for the parra stadium as it looks like being the only stadium that a politcian is going to be able to take a campaign picture in front of. 

[Cazorla]

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

[FCWanderers]

What has Stuart Ayres and the SCG trust been telling the tenants of Allianz stadium whatever it was it doesn't match what was decided in State cabinet by the government?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mike-baird-says-new-allianz-stadium-cannot-cut-into-centennial-park-20160411-go3i4d.html

 

 

But Mr Baird said even if the SCG Trust supported that plan, he would not allow it.

 

"That's the Cabinet position, I can't be clearer on that," Mr Baird said.

 

But he said he was not at odds with Mr Ayres on the plan and they were in agreement over the overall stadium position.

 

"The Cabinet position that myself and the Sports Minister agree with is that we're going to build effectively three stadiums - Parramatta Stadium, new stadium at Allianz, an upgrade of ANZ."

 

He said the Government had been working to lock-in content for the new stadium.

 

"We want to ensure as we undertake the stadium strategy ... we have long-term content secured things such as the grand final for a long term, things such as the State of Origin for a long term, we want to ensure that we have those before we proceed with the build.

 

"All codes are interested in this, together with the A-League."

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-11/football-codes-unit-against-mike-baird-new-sydney-stadium-plan/7318044

 

Quotes from the Premier Mike Baird.

Edited April 11, 2016 by FCWanderers

[luisenrique]

In one way good they are putting up a fight but on the other hands what a bunch of sooks "we are going to be displaced for four years" boohoo. Do you hear the grubs out west sooking. 

 

They're sooking because displacing them will kill whatever shreds of support they still have left, the wankers.

[mack]

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

The tender will apparently be up to 35k. Who knows if the bidders will be able to fit that in.

 

The SFS tenants know that spending 4 years playing all over the shop, followed by paying extremely higher rents despite it being likely they won't improve crowds, is going to be financially disastrous.

 

Getting ~10k more at a Derby isn't going to make up for having to pay shitloads more rent for matches where only 12k show up against Perth or Wellington or an FFA Cup match.

[wanderersfanatic]

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

 

As long as it's upgradeable to increase capacity, it should be fine.

[FCWanderers]

The Daily Telegraph has been told the government’s priority is completion of the new Parramatta stadium by 2019. After that, whether ANZ Stadium gets refurbished or Moore Park rebuilt first would be up to the “content†the government can secure from the codes playing at the grounds.

 

This differs from Mr Ayres’ position, which had been for Moore Park to be first cab off the rank.

 

When asked at a press conference yesterday if he would rule out building on the Centennial Park site, Mr Baird said : “Yes, that’s the cabinet position. I can’t be clearer on that.â€

 

He said demolition and reconstruction on SCG land was an inconvenience for the clubs but that “in the long term they end up with a fantastic stadium, great for them, great for the city and great for the fansâ€.

 

Mr Baird was asked what he would do if the SCG Trust came back to him and said it wanted the new stadium on the Centennial and Moore parklands, which would allow the teams to continue to play at the Sydney Football Stadium until it was complete.

 

“If that’s what they did say, I’d say ‘go back and do it on the existing land’,†he replied.

 

Mr Baird’s comments are a slapdown for Mr Ayres, who has wanted the SCG Trust proposal to get up.

 

Mr Baird claimed that the government was close to a deal on content with the rugby league, soccer and rugby union codes to provide enough games to Sydney’s three key stadiums.

 

Originally, the government had been aiming to secure 65 of 108 rugby league games a year at the three stadiums but Mr Ayres has fallen short by 10 games to do that.

 

SCG Trust chair Tony Shepherd said last night: “At least we have got (the promise of) a new stadium on the existing site.â€

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/moore-park-mike-baird-wants-new-stadium-built-on-existing-allianz-stadium-site/news-story/706de0f2b9899094cd6cc13983416114

 

It seems the decision on which stadium is to be redeveloped after the Parramatta stadium is still up in the air, depending on content agreements.

 

 

 

Mr Ayres sought to dismiss a much cheaper option of renovating the existing stadium, saying it would not produce a world-class venue.

 

Mr Davis described the new stadium as a “Taj Mahal†and an extravagant waste of taxpayers’ money.

 

“If you put your public hat on, we are going to build a 55,000-person stadium where the average usage of that stadium is no more than 25 or 30 [thousand].

 

“We are spending $1.2bn to build a new stadium where a renovation would cost less than half that,’' he said.

 

Mr Ayres told Jones yesterday that the $1.6bn allocated to stadiums would not have been enough for all the “bells and whistles†at all three stadiums and the priority was the Parramatta and Allianz ­venues. ANZ Stadium, he said, would have to fit “within the ­envelope’’.

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/fury-over-mike-bairds-stand-on-stadium/news-story/faf662ae064a1ba21b175180b96b8616

 

Comments from Sports Minister Stuart Ayres and NSW Waratahs chairman Roger Davis.

Edited April 11, 2016 by FCWanderers

[Jukes01]

This is just ridiculous. Everyone except the government and the SCG trust knows that a brand new 55k stadium at Moore Park is a stupid proposal. It SHOULDn't even be considered. Now the roosters, Waratahs and SFC don't care as long as they don't have to move, even if the stadium is 20k too big for their needs. The sensible solution for the SFS is to give it an upgrade. They only need to spend 150-200m at most and even that's being generous. Keep them playing at the mansion while the upgrade is going and be done with it.

 

The three clubs don't move, the stadium gets an upgrade it really doesn't need anyway and the taxpayer doesn't have to spend money on a brand new stadium. Sounds like win-win-win to me. We all know this push is coming from the powerful board at the SCG trust. The problem is it will be political suicide for the government if they decide to build a new stadium no one wants or needs despite the SCG trust getting in their ear.

[Prydzopolis]

 

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

 

The tender will apparently be up to 35k. Who knows if the bidders will be able to fit that in.

 

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

 

As long as it's upgradeable to increase capacity, it should be fine.

Yes, the government has set the tender document to be between 30-35k but it will be up to the architects to see what they fit into the site. They did ask us at the focus group whether we'd prefer a larger stadium now or a smaller stadium with the opportunity to upgrade. We all preferred the larger stadium.

 

Plenty of discussion on here & at the focus group that both sets of supporters agree that we want a 35k stadium. This view was shared by the Wanderers & there was a private design that showed a 35k stadium could fit. Interestingly the eels didn't see it a priority that the capacity was pushed beyond 30k (they want to move big games to ANZ anyway, so that makes sense)

[marron]

To add to that, in order to make it suitable to expand later, they need to more or less build it as if they were building a bigger one but not put the seats in. This includes exits and such and would also leave big empty spaces. If and when it was ever upgraded, those new seats would have poor views anyway. Their point is, if you have to do all that work just so you can chuck in some seats later, might as well chuck them in now and make them work. On top of this the space is tight and they are adamant this will not change. So there is next to no chance of being able to make it substantially bigger at any point in the future.

[Stpeters]

Just was interviewed on ABC radio 

Moving has a bigger impact for the local community and economy then losing fans, think about what parramatta eels and wanderers add to parra CBD. I was in parra on the weekend having a beer and after the nrl 100s to 1000s of people flooded into pub/bars/cafes/restaurants. On your game day I'm sure it is much the same and even more so. there are pubs/Cafes/bars (especially cafes )  in moorepark/surryhills/paddington who survive on sports fans and if they move all three tenants for 3-4 years then some will stop trading which will just add to the list of business's affected by poor government. 

 

On radio I did say I wanted a refurb and wanted my metro station. 

[Prydzopolis]

Good call St Peters

 

I think the biggest issue with the move is not just the effect on the local economy or the effect of building fans (as was the club's point in the statement), but when you boil down all the other crap the basic argument is that you don't need a bigger brand new stadium. Yes it needs an upgrade & facilities need improving but you don't need a 55,000 seat stadium.

 

Metro station, will it make that much of a difference?

[Gazmon]

List of people/groups who want Allianz refurb. only:

• Fans
• Public
• Shop owners
• NRL
• FFA
• Pretty much everyone, but...

List of those that want it knocked down and rebuilt:

• SCG Trust
• ARU
• NSW Govt.

 

The 2nd list represents a bunch of idiots.

[marron]

Thing is what the pollies want is what Melbourne has. They dont give a toss about local business in Surry hills. They have the idea of all these people hopping on the light rail and being transported within minutes to the city.

[Hughesy]

30k can work perfectly for us, there's plenty of big clubs around the world who make their smaller stadiums work for them. The key will be implementing an effective buy back that makes using it habitual for members to utilise. That creates a perfect balance between supply and demand.

 

It's only in Australia that the concept of stadiums regularly selling out is considered impossible and makes those in power uncomfortable at the thought that some people could miss out.

[Gazmon]

Thing is what the pollies want is what Melbourne has. They dont give a toss about local business in Surry hills. They have the idea of all these people hopping on the light rail and being transported within minutes to the city.

 

Yeah, that's the part that really irks me too. The Melbourne stadium/sporting setup revolves around the AFL, which has the majority of its teams based within 10km of the CBD. Sydney does not have that.

 

We're as different as New York and LA... just doesn't work.

[Cazorla]

Thing is what the pollies want is what Melbourne has. They dont give a toss about local business in Surry hills. They have the idea of all these people hopping on the light rail and being transported within minutes to the city.

 

I just think that 35k is the perfect number. Capping our memebership at 30k with 5k allowed for away supporters and general public allows for the continued interest.

 

As Jerry Seinfeld once said.. "Its the perfect plan".

[mack]

A buy back is never going to result in more than a few dozen tickets coming back.

[Gazmon]

 

Thing is what the pollies want is what Melbourne has. They dont give a toss about local business in Surry hills. They have the idea of all these people hopping on the light rail and being transported within minutes to the city.

 

I just think that 35k is the perfect number. Capping our memebership at 30k with 5k allowed for away supporters and general public allows for the continued interest.

 

As Jerry Seinfeld once said.. "Its the perfect plan".

 

 

Need to include corporate seating too.

 

In the 30k plan, 3k was for suites/boxes/corporate. So, assuming the same ratio with 35k, we'd only have 31,500 for general seating... so maybe 26k members, 2k match-day tickets and 3,500 for away fans - which can be changed down if need be.

[Johnno]

 

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

The tender will apparently be up to 35k. Who knows if the bidders will be able to fit that in.

 

The SFS tenants know that spending 4 years playing all over the shop, followed by paying extremely higher rents despite it being likely they won't improve crowds, is going to be financially disastrous.

 

Getting ~10k more at a Derby isn't going to make up for having to pay shitloads more rent for matches where only 12k show up against Perth or Wellington or an FFA Cup match.

 

 

 

Just limit ticket sales to 5,000.  It worked for the gold coast 

So if they are going to build pirtek first and then choose over the SFS or Homebush to work on, what is the chance of the smurfs being moved to a brand new pirtek whilst they sit out their home ground for 3 seasons

[Gazmon]

 

 

Is anyone else worried about the 30k capacity at the new stadium? Say 2-3k for corporate boxes and seats and we're left with 27k capacity for the next few decades. Barely any room for growth ffs

The tender will apparently be up to 35k. Who knows if the bidders will be able to fit that in.

 

The SFS tenants know that spending 4 years playing all over the shop, followed by paying extremely higher rents despite it being likely they won't improve crowds, is going to be financially disastrous.

 

Getting ~10k more at a Derby isn't going to make up for having to pay shitloads more rent for matches where only 12k show up against Perth or Wellington or an FFA Cup match.

 

 

 

Just limit ticket sales to 5,000.  It worked for the gold coast 

So if they are going to build pirtek first and then choose over the SFS or Homebush to work on, what is the chance of the smurfs being moved to a brand new pirtek whilst they sit out their home ground for 3 seasons

 

 

Sounds like Pirtek is pretty much guaranteed, all sides of the argument have accepted that. Just seems to be how the remaining 1.3bn is divided: ANZ refurb, Allianz refurb or rebuild (either same location or next door) and community ground upgrades.

[btron3000]

 

Mr Ayres sought to dismiss a much cheaper option of renovating the existing stadium, saying it would not produce a world-class venue.

 

But if you don't renovate ANZ it won't be a world class stadium either, Mr Ayres!

 

Anyway, all this talk of "world class venues" is a red herring. 

 

If they build a new Moore Park and don't turn ANZ into a decent rectangular stadium, then we will have two white elephants at huge cost. One "world class stadium" that is only 55k (pretty small for a "world class stadium) and never gets used because there is no demand, and one large terrible one that gets used occasionally but people hate the view.

 

If ANZ is transformed into a decent rectangular stadium, and Allianz is upgraded, we get a proper "world class stadium" at Homebush (hopefully) and a pretty bloody good one that services its needs at Moore Park.