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mack

Australian Stadiums Discussion (Excluding Parramatta)

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Just a thought to send a chill down your spine though.

Just say Allianz becomes a 3-4 year proposition as they argue in the courts and parliament about what to do with it. Smurfs need to play somewhere. SOP won't be a popular choice with their fans either for sure.

Hmmmmm where is a venue, purpose built and modern for football? A ground that creates good atmosphere and easy to get to via public transport. A stadium run by a hospitality company, for the sake of argument let's call them VenuesLive, and not a football club. A company eager to attract as many tenants as possible.

Be careful what you wish for.

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21 minutes ago, beatsurrender said:

 

Just say Allianz becomes a 3-4 year proposition as they argue in the courts and parliament about what to do with it. Smurfs need to play somewhere. SOP won't be a popular choice with their fans either for sure.

 

I can see this drag out for years and the costs blowing out if Labor gets in at the state election and nothing gets done about the SFS. Labor will just finger point at the Libs for causing this and take no responsibility for it

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I look forward to the first piece of Aussie infrastructure sitting there, half pulled down but not being built, South American or African style.

Maybe it will finally make some people realise we can’t put up with the imbeciles in Parliament doing things just for political favours and buying votes.

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3 hours ago, beatsurrender said:

Just a thought to send a chill down your spine though.

Just say Allianz becomes a 3-4 year proposition as they argue in the courts and parliament about what to do with it. Smurfs need to play somewhere. SOP won't be a popular choice with their fans either for sure.

Hmmmmm where is a venue, purpose built and modern for football? A ground that creates good atmosphere and easy to get to via public transport. A stadium run by a hospitality company, for the sake of argument let's call them VenuesLive, and not a football club. A company eager to attract as many tenants as possible.

Be careful what you wish for.

The exact same thought crossed my mind though Sydney’s arrogance as a club I think would make them very resistive to such a move. 

I also wonder what would happen to their contract with Allianz/SCG trust if this doesn’t get up and running or is stalled considerably. Is there avenue for them to get out? Considering how much their owner is worth, applying to take over the operations of Leichhardt oval and giving that a face lift and turning it into more of a stadium may be a brilliant move for them as a permanent home base? Perhaps they could get some help from the FFA and have it double as a bit of a national team headquarters?

Re Daley: he’s got rat written all over him that bloke. He looks like he wouldn’t have the faintest bit of interest in sport. He’s just carefully listened in to people complaining about suburban grounds and is parroting it to sound like he gives a **** and backs it up with the word ‘footy’ every few sentences lol As Mack pointed out, he’s talking suburban grounds up yet won’t give them any funding. Does he think that by NOT re-building Allianz that these suburban grounds will magically repair themselves? Doesn’t like he could run a bath let alone NSW...

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48 minutes ago, hughsey said:

The exact same thought crossed my mind though Sydney’s arrogance as a club I think would make them very resistive to such a move. 

I also wonder what would happen to their contract with Allianz/SCG trust if this doesn’t get up and running or is stalled considerably. Is there avenue for them to get out? Considering how much their owner is worth, applying to take over the operations of Leichhardt oval and giving that a face lift and turning it into more of a stadium may be a brilliant move for them as a permanent home base? Perhaps they could get some help from the FFA and have it double as a bit of a national team headquarters?

Re Daley: he’s got rat written all over him that bloke. He looks like he wouldn’t have the faintest bit of interest in sport. He’s just carefully listened in to people complaining about suburban grounds and is parroting it to sound like he gives a **** and backs it up with the word ‘footy’ every few sentences lol As Mack pointed out, he’s talking suburban grounds up yet won’t give them any funding. Does he think that by NOT re-building Allianz that these suburban grounds will magically repair themselves? Doesn’t like he could run a bath let alone NSW...

Daley is just being a politician. They are all the same. Self interest trumps all... 

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10 hours ago, btron3000 said:

The suburban grounds being dumps is the whole point Mack. They need upgrading. And regardless of whether another 45k stadium is built/fixed at Moore Park, there is a need - in the NRL at least, which is still the major competition in Sydney - for smaller grounds. And while the SFS is being fixed/built/whatever, other grounds are important. And ESFC would be better off at a Suburban sized ground anyway. Winning the league twice in a row and still not even half filling SFS.

And you're wrong about NRL fans and Parra Stadium. Manly fans won't come across the Spit just because there is a new stadium. Cronulla fans will travel a little more, but not much. Tigers fans love and pack Leichhardt every time there is a game there. Penrith fans might travel to Parra for a game or two each year, but try taking 13 games away from their community. It won't work.

A community model like this is exactly what both the NRL and A-league should be doing. Daley is right - we are not the AFL. Local communities are important and this idea of forcing everyone to come to one or two stadiums is silly.

And what's happened to the rectangularisation (that's right) of Homebush? The Libs got this wrong from the start because of their mates on the SCG Trust.

My point was less about how they require upgrades (these stadiums have been substandard for decades), but that the potential incoming Government had no promised any funding. The election is in 3 and a half weeks and I can't see the opposition saying "We're going to upgrade Cronulla and Leichardt and Kogarah and Penrith" (all of which are stadiums that the NSW Government does not own) after their entire election campaign has been about cancelling stadium builds/upgrades and shovelling it into the gargantuan hospital and schools budget (that use up the entire stadium budget in a couple weeks).

ANZ went from a $1.3 billion knock down rebuild before the SFS, to being delayed until after the SFS, to be downgraded to a "lower bowl redevelopment" for $800 million that will do nothing to fix the systemic issues with the stadium. If the government changes I can't see that development happening at all.

Brookvale is already getting a $40 million upgrade that includes a new northern stand as well as a training facility for Manly NRL.

6 hours ago, Burztur said:

Mack - Can you reference the source which shows that the SCG Trust is owned by the NSW Govt? 

https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/1978/72/full

Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Act 1978 No 72 - Section 5 - The Trust shall be subject to the control & direction of the minister.

6 hours ago, SBW said:

The 2 stadiums that I think that need major work are Hunter Stadium and WIN stadium, both of those grounds look half complete.

Newcastle Stadium has had about $70 million dollars spent on it in recent history. Wollongong Stadium had $30 million spent on the grandstand that roof buckled and nearly collapsed in 2011, which probably cost millions more to fix, had a $10 million upgrade to the North Stand in 2002 that is currently having a roof replacement at a cost I can't seem to find but would be at least a few million dollars. I can't see much more money being spent on either of these in the next 5 years.

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Thanks. I guess the only real difference is the SCG Trust will be expected to repay a loan under the ALP rather than just have free money...

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8 hours ago, beatsurrender said:

Daley is just being a politician. They are all the same. Self interest trumps all... 

And in this case he is right. If the current Gov can't wait for the electorate to decide next month - then they roll the dice and if they get booted the SCG trust goes cup in hand for a loan to rebuild it.

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I may be late to the chat on this, and forgive me if I'm saying what has already been said, however the whole 'rebuild suburban stadia' agenda will not be based on how badly run down individual venues are, or how much they are used/overused. It will come down to whether the local MP or the leadership group of his or her party can see any political advantage in tackling such a task.

Take as a case in point Penrith Stadium & that tool Stuart Ayres. He has been willing to forego any activism on behalf of a major rebuild or reno for Panferz because he is obviously believes he can win the seat again with his existing electorate buffer of 6%, plus he has big business & media mates on his side thanks to his push for Allianz. I would not be surprised if he is also less worried about the Riff because of his business & political sympathies for the AFL and horse racing, and he may even be the kind of arsehat who will put himself forward as a new leader of the Libs if they lose the next state election.

Brookey has no appeal for any significant redevelopment for the Libs as it has been in their 'safe' hands since 2007 at the state level, and the Mad Monk has held it federally since 1994. Whilst I'm not surprised nothing has really been done with the projected redevelopment funds that have been mooted recently, it will be intriguing to see if Pedo Pell's Pal Tony Abbott, under threat by Zali Steggal, pushes for a real start to an upgrade to help win votes amongst his rugger bugger Silvertail mates (including Sarah Murdoch, daughter-in-law of Rupert the reptile and major Manly fan).

Picking up what Mack says, the ALP has no need to do anything right now to try and talk up funding any suburban grounds because everyone but the most deluded can see that the current Liberal/Nats stadium policy is a huge electoral liability, whereas focusing on the need for more money for health and education is a big vote winner. Going back to the Riff situation, how anyone can think voting for Ayres here based on what he has done to help out the SCG Trust, plus with the inadequacies in school funding, beggars belief. Panferz will not be getting any update until it becomes extremely important politically, after education, health, the M4, trains etc.

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I think Ayres goal will be for the party to ditch Gladys in the next cycle (either after losing the election, or she will "retire" at some point in the next few years) and transfer to a blue ribbon seat (Hills district or North Shore seats). Then he won't even have to pretend to give a **** about anyone in Western Sydney. Polling suggests either a Liberal minority with the awful Shooters party propping them up or even a hung parliament.

If the 2PP polling 51/49 or 50/50 holds Ayres would likely be in the most marginal Liberal held seat in the state. If he has designs on leading the state (blurgh, imagine NSW with a Premier even more beholden to Transurban, Westconnex and the Eastern toffs) there's no chance he'll stay in Penrith beyond next term.

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13 minutes ago, mack said:

I think Ayres goal will be for the party to ditch Gladys in the next cycle (either after losing the election, or she will "retire" at some point in the next few years) and transfer to a blue ribbon seat (Hills district or North Shore seats). Then he won't even have to pretend to give a **** about anyone in Western Sydney. Polling suggests either a Liberal minority with the awful Shooters party propping them up or even a hung parliament.

If the 2PP polling 51/49 or 50/50 holds Ayres would likely be in the most marginal Liberal held seat in the state. If he has designs on leading the state (blurgh, imagine NSW with a Premier even more beholden to Transurban, Westconnex and the Eastern toffs) there's no chance he'll stay in Penrith beyond next term.

The links between that gobshite Ayres and Manuka Midget chair Tony Shephard (and Transurban suit and SCG member) should be more than enough reason for anyone with a lick of sense to dump the karnt out here.

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11 minutes ago, mack said:

I think Ayres goal will be for the party to ditch Gladys in the next cycle (either after losing the election, or she will "retire" at some point in the next few years) and transfer to a blue ribbon seat (Hills district or North Shore seats). Then he won't even have to pretend to give a **** about anyone in Western Sydney. Polling suggests either a Liberal minority with the awful Shooters party propping them up or even a hung parliament.

If the 2PP polling 51/49 or 50/50 holds Ayres would likely be in the most marginal Liberal held seat in the state. If he has designs on leading the state (blurgh, imagine NSW with a Premier even more beholden to Transurban, Westconnex and the Eastern toffs) there's no chance he'll stay in Penrith beyond next term.

The guy lives in Mulgoa and is married to Marisa Payne who is currently the federal defense minister. 

I'm hoping the baseball bats are out. When the toll was re-instated for the M4 at $4.60 one way, so many people started getting off at Church St it wasn't funny (And I was one of them). One day I had people at my window trying to extol car pooling and they had official state govt badges..

I'd say it goodnight Stuart

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I briefly had to go that way before my company moved offices. At least once a week there was a pile up in the left lane because they were stationary all the way back to the Burnett St on ramp while the other three lanes were doing 90.

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2 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

The guy lives in Mulgoa and is married to Marisa Payne who is currently the federal defense minister. 

I'm hoping the baseball bats are out. When the toll was re-instated for the M4 at $4.60 one way, so many people started getting off at Church St it wasn't funny (And I was one of them). One day I had people at my window trying to extol car pooling and they had official state govt badges..

I'd say it goodnight Stuart

Funny how in all the kerfuffle over how he has rorted things for his SCG Trust mates with Allianz that it's been forgotten how much money was kicked in by the state government under his watch to help pay for the Manuka Midgets to adapt Soulless for their needs, after Blacktown City was dudded over the plans there.

Every time Ayres yammers about how much Allianz (and ANZ) needed demolition he kept talking up the safety issues and need to have world class rectangular venues in Sydney for world class events. Funny how he never had a dig at his mates Alan Jones, Tony Shephard etc about how they and the Trust let Allianz become such a 'death trap' whilst spending millions of huge bloody jumbotrons. Nor has he ever told us how a new Allianz, or even renovated ANZ will win us the right to host a FIFA World Cup (men's or women's). FFS the rugby league & union world cups will always cycle through Australia and Sydney because they are parochial sports with barely a tenth of the worldwide popularity of sokkah. Did the clown even talk to anyone at the FFA about how badly our 2022 bid fared, and why it failed? Nope...and right now ANZ is still ANZ and Allianz is a political disaster.

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1 hour ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

 Brookey has no appeal for any significant redevelopment for the Libs as it has been in their 'safe' hands since 2007 at the state level, and the Mad Monk has held it federally since 1994. Whilst I'm not surprised nothing has really been done with the projected redevelopment funds that have been mooted recently, it will be intriguing to see if Pedo Pell's Pal Tony Abbott, under threat by Zali Steggal, pushes for a real start to an upgrade to help win votes amongst his rugger bugger Silvertail mates (including Sarah Murdoch, daughter-in-law of Rupert the reptile and major Manly fan).

Brookvale has already been promised some federal funding anyway.

 

Anyway, as you said, stadium funding not an election winner for the ALP, so they aren't gonna make any noise about it.

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I’m also in the camp of a new stadium is not needed at Allianz. This project was rushed through just like all the other infrastructure projects because once labor wins the election it all disappears.

Reminds me of the Carlingford to Epping train line (not this rubbish light rail), it wasn’t in a seat that was threatened so funding was delayed delayed delayed before being scrapped by the liberals. It’s the same with Allianz, the SCG trust is stacked with liberal party power brokers led by jones, was always going to win the race over ANZ especially since it is considered “western Sydney”.

Allianz: Give it a facelift, fix the safety concerns (360 access is the main one). Like others, this may be a blessing in disguise for Sydney FC where things have improved markedly since the move. The focus needs to be turning ANZ into a world class rectangular stadium with the majority of the money.

Funny the trend regarding stadiums, first it was a flock to play in the big stadiums with new facilities, cash bonuses & flashy extras. Once people figured out how lifeless & souless these venues are to play, they now flock to suburban grounds. Understandable & going for the popular vote with the suburban ground upgrades & Allianz combo. Had the libs not pushed Allianz so hard, they’ve lost a lot of support in the process & maybe the election.

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On 28/02/2019 at 3:55 PM, Prydzopolis said:

I’m also in the camp of a new stadium is not needed at Allianz. This project was rushed through just like all the other infrastructure projects because once labor wins the election it all disappears.

Reminds me of the Carlingford to Epping train line (not this rubbish light rail), it wasn’t in a seat that was threatened so funding was delayed delayed delayed before being scrapped by the liberals. It’s the same with Allianz, the SCG trust is stacked with liberal party power brokers led by jones, was always going to win the race over ANZ especially since it is considered “western Sydney”.

Allianz: Give it a facelift, fix the safety concerns (360 access is the main one). Like others, this may be a blessing in disguise for Sydney FC where things have improved markedly since the move. The focus needs to be turning ANZ into a world class rectangular stadium with the majority of the money.

Funny the trend regarding stadiums, first it was a flock to play in the big stadiums with new facilities, cash bonuses & flashy extras. Once people figured out how lifeless & souless these venues are to play, they now flock to suburban grounds. Understandable & going for the popular vote with the suburban ground upgrades & Allianz combo. Had the libs not pushed Allianz so hard, they’ve lost a lot of support in the process & maybe the election.

That trend was a combination of the ongoing measuring contest between Sydney and Melbourne in the pursuit to self appoint one another the sporting capital of Australia, combined with our obsession for copying everything America does. All for the sake of being able to throw around the term 'World Class'. The irony is that there really is nothing World Class at all about our stadium network IMO. 

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5 minutes ago, hughsey said:

That trend was a combination of the ongoing measuring contest between Sydney and Melbourne in the pursuit to self appoint one another the sporting capital of Australia, combined with our obsession for copying everything America does. All for the sake of being able to throw around the term 'World Class'. The irony is that there really is nothing World Class at all about our stadium network IMO. 

World class is not able to be generally ascribed to a stadium without saying what sport it is world class for.  The MCG is definitely world class for AFL and for cricket but for football it is third rate and for table tennis it would be arrant nonsense to state that it was suitable in any way.  The reality is that every stadium design is completed by making compromise after compromise but optimising the decision making to satisfy the owner's brief which in itself is a series of compromises.

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Here’s a scary thought, pitch at jubilee isn’t fixed up for the Smurf’s acl campaign they go looking for a ground that is up to acl standards and find a beautiful barely used one with good transport links 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Here’s a scary thought, pitch at jubilee isn’t fixed up for the Smurf’s acl campaign they go looking for a ground that is up to acl standards and find a beautiful barely used one with good transport links 

 

 

Blasphemy.

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27 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Here’s a scary thought, pitch at jubilee isn’t fixed up for the Smurf’s acl campaign they go looking for a ground that is up to acl standards and find a beautiful barely used one with good transport links 

 

 

They're welcome to ANZ......:woah:......lol

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3 hours ago, Flytox said:

The MCG is definitely world class for AFL and for cricket but for football it is third rate

I don't even like it for cricket.

The best cricket grounds are small/medium sized and are asymmetrical giving them some character and different wind and conditions from each end. Big concrete stadiums do not suit cricket. The SCG gets a pass because the old stands are still great but it has definitely lost something since it's been totally enclosed with the latest two stands.

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The MCG is the perfect example of how parochialism gets the better of everyone.

The role that it has played in Melbournian society is such that they can't help but think it's awesome.

Except it's a big cavernous cookie cutter with no character whatsoever. Even when it's full most people are that far away from anything it doesn't give you any sense of intensity.

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1 hour ago, btron3000 said:

I don't even like it for cricket.

The best cricket grounds are small/medium sized and are asymmetrical giving them some character and different wind and conditions from each end. Big concrete stadiums do not suit cricket. The SCG gets a pass because the old stands are still great but it has definitely lost something since it's been totally enclosed with the latest two stands.

Again it comes down to what is needed.  If you want a 90k cricket ground then the MCG is it.  It is world class.

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5 hours ago, Flytox said:

World class is not able to be generally ascribed to a stadium without saying what sport it is world class for.  The MCG is definitely world class for AFL and for cricket but for football it is third rate and for table tennis it would be arrant nonsense to state that it was suitable in any way.  The reality is that every stadium design is completed by making compromise after compromise but optimising the decision making to satisfy the owner's brief which in itself is a series of compromises.

Great point and right there is the issue with most venues in this country. They’re built to cater for everyone yet perfectly suit no one.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Flytox said:

Again it comes down to what is needed.  If you want a 90k cricket ground then the MCG is it.  It is world class.

Souless bowl...impressive in size but any character long since gone. New stadiums incorporate more character than the MCG has. Best cricket ground in Australia is Adelaide Oval in my opinion...and been to all major state ovals in this country. The Gabba is shyte as well.

 

Edited by Smoggy

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Haven’t been to Adelaide for cricket since the redevelopment. Still good?

I don’t mind the Gabba, but only because it’s filled with crazy Queenslanders and I was there when the Poms lost 6 for 9 with Johnson and Lyon going through them. Amazing scenes.

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3 hours ago, btron3000 said:

Haven’t been to Adelaide for cricket since the redevelopment. Still good?

I don’t mind the Gabba, but only because it’s filled with crazy Queenslanders and I was there when the Poms lost 6 for 9 with Johnson and Lyon going through them. Amazing scenes.

Adelaide oval has retained its character...nice ground. 

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When I was there for the GF, the Adelaide oval seemed absolutely massive for a ground that only holds 50-60k

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