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Australian Stadiums Discussion (Excluding Parramatta)


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1 hour ago, Paul01 said:

Your giving too much credit to Ayres as he's not that smart. 

He is the mouthpiece of Alan Jones and that's why the Sydney Stadium upgrades are f******

Not giving him credit, just a fact that he was sports minister at the time that these poor decisions were made and pushed for stupid policies. 

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41 minutes ago, mack said:

They essentially got the policy right, replace the three most important stadiums in Sydney (Parra, SFS, ANZ), after sorting out a major upgrade to Newcastle. The cost is large, but in the terms of the NSW Government, it wasn't a particularly massive amount of money for three stadiums that will last minimum 30 years and probably upwards of 50+

And then Baird "forgot" about the bottle of wine, got ICAC'd and then Ayres took his shot to appease Jones and wrecked it when Gladys came in, she got spooked by "Fitzy" whinging and dumbed it all down.

Policy right? 

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611a7687b6642269676c4

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23 hours ago, hughsey said:

The MCG and Wembley were renovated because of their historical significance as two of the worlds most famous grounds. ANZ is a generic Olympic stadium that’s only been around for a tick over 20 years. There’s no comparison. 

If the stadium is going to be so good at Moore Park then doesn’t that nullify any rebuild of ANZ and vice versa? Particularly when there’s only about 20k difference in capacity.

This whole stadium strategy is based on fantasy rather than practicality. You’ve got Allianz being proposed at a size that is too big to the point they’re going to install a multi million dollar ‘curtain’ to block off empty seats at 90% of games. Then you’ve got ANZ having $800m spent on it to basically put on a roof, make it a rectangle and actually decrease the capacity all for the sake of a handful of games that may fill it each year. As for concerts, I’ve read a few articles now about how promoters are struggling to bring regular acts to Australia that can pull a crowd big enough to justify renting ANZ let alone sell it out.

You mention Melbourne and it’s ironic because that’s another reason why we’re in this mess because NSW is obsessed with this one sided measuring contest about being the self proclaimed ‘sporting capital’. Who really cares? Our city dynamic and layout is completely different to their’s - which no one in any position of power seems to understand or want to acknowledge.

Once again they’ve ignored the thousands of people that flocked to suburban grounds to watch the footy whenever they had the chance for yet another season running in the NRL. Watching the Smurfs play at suburban grounds last season was the same deal too. 

The only thing that they’ve gotten right is BWS and that’s because it was a need not a want. The rest of this strategy is just an expensive pipe dream to give the government something to show off and gloat about.

Wembley wasn't renovated.  It was demolished and replaced with a modern stadium built to the same basic architectural program as all other modern stadiums.  Using your terminology it is a "generic" football stadium that was given the old stadium's name.  

The MCG is known to the cricket world but does that make it world famous?  It's quite a poor stadium when you compare it to most large modern stadiums.  It is also totally unsuitable for watching all rectangular pitch sports.  The 50,000 seat Great Southern Stand which is only 8 years older than ANZ Stadium is already funded for replacement but that work will probably follow the $225m upgrade to Etihad Stadium that also has state Government funding approved.  

Why would the upgrade of one stadium negate the need to upgrade the other?  The original stadium strategic plan was quite clear in setting the need for 4, and eventually 5, Tier 1 stadiums each sized to different capacities so that a suitable stadium was available for all major sports events with the ability for major events to be held at a suitable sized stadium for the event.

- The curtain at Allianz isn't happening,

- the roof at ANZ is vital if the venue is to cover its O&M costs (Millennium Stadium in Cardiff used to make annual profits based on 8 sporting events per year due to it's roof and back of house facilities),

- the major issue being dealt with at ANZ are viewing distances and sight lines which are the purpose of rectangularisation and steeper stands that will result in a hugely improved atmosphere for the fans,

- spending on suburban grounds should have been happening all along but it's a different issue to the need for a generational improvement at major venues.

- BWS wasn't needed all that was required was completion of the 4 stages that would have increased capacity to 27,000 plus corporates at less than a third of the cost of BWS.  It's nice to have though.

When you look at this 1 in 30-50 year spend on stadia it's a relatively small amount and the constant cry about spending it on schools, hospitals and transport fails to acknowledge that year after year governments have spent at record levels on these assets and will continue to do so while ever population growth is so high.  A quick calc shows that the spend on these stadiums will be about 0.8% of the capital spending by the state over the next 30 years.

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18 hours ago, Flytox said:

 

When you look at this 1 in 30-50 year spend on stadia it's a relatively small amount and the constant cry about spending it on schools, hospitals and transport fails to acknowledge that year after year governments have spent at record levels on these assets and will continue to do so while ever population growth is so high.  A quick calc shows that the spend on these stadiums will be about 0.8% of the capital spending by the state over the next 30 years.

Exactly. This argument being bought forward about the stadium infrastructure spend being a waste of money is just ignorant.

During the period of time the stadiums will be built, over $120 Billion will be spent on health and education in this state.

The stadium spend is small fry, and now is the perfect time to do it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Paywalled https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=DTWEB_MRE170_a_FBK&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytelegraph.com.au%2Fsport%2Fgladys-berejiklian-stops-secret-plan-to-dump-anz-redevelopment%2Fnews-story%2F4ef4c4f7d41cd407d0deaabb6c5774d8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21suffix=56-a

 Can anyone who has access post up the full link?

This is sounding very dodgy from the NSW government. I'm reading up on SM that there will be delays of the new SFS being built on top of state government looking to cost cutting to make sure the stadium is met on budget?

 

 

 

Edited by SBW
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1 hour ago, SBW said:

Paywalled https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=DTWEB_MRE170_a_FBK&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytelegraph.com.au%2Fsport%2Fgladys-berejiklian-stops-secret-plan-to-dump-anz-redevelopment%2Fnews-story%2F4ef4c4f7d41cd407d0deaabb6c5774d8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21suffix=56-a

 Can anyone who has access post up the full link?

This is sounding very dodgy from the NSW government. I'm reading up on SM that there will be delays of the new SFS being built on top of state government looking to cost cutting to make sure the stadium is met on budget?

 

 

 

I can't post the article but I did read it.  I'm not sure  how it is dodgy from the government to stay with the announced ANZ upgrade instead of the proposal from stakeholders of the 4 venues.  The proposal put to them was a brand new replacement stadium for Penrith on the existing site, a brand new shared stadium at Woolaware or Kogarah and a brand new stadium for Manly at Brookvale, as well as major upgrades for Leichhardt.  Each new stadium was to cost $250m.  ANZ was to be left as is.

Edited by Flytox
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V’landys could be a blessing for all codes in Sydney. He gets **** done and isn’t afraid of putting the pressure on Government so if he decides that he wants to target suburban stadia then there’s a good chance they will get some attention.

Just look at Sydney’s crowd at Leichhardt last night. It looked fantastic yet at Allianz or anything bigger it would’ve been a ghost town. Problem with Sydney though is that they’d probably rather play at a way too big Allianz so they can wank on about how big a club they are...

I think it’s dodgy from the government for sure if that story is true. I’m yet to hear from or read any sort of significant general public support for the Allianz/ANZ plan Gladys and co keep pushing to try and basically one up Melbourne. People vote with their feet and suburban grounds keep winning. I don’t understand why the general public aren’t given more say when it’s those same people who will be attending these venues and returning the investment on them...

 

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1 hour ago, hughsey said:

V’landys could be a blessing for all codes in Sydney. He gets **** done and isn’t afraid of putting the pressure on Government

I'd rather not elaborate on what I think of this piece of excrement. He should be forced to watch the 7:30 report repeatedly, lowlife scum. 

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1 hour ago, hughsey said:

V’landys could be a blessing for all codes in Sydney. He gets **** done and isn’t afraid of putting the pressure on Government so if he decides that he wants to target suburban stadia then there’s a good chance they will get some attention.

Just look at Sydney’s crowd at Leichhardt last night. It looked fantastic yet at Allianz or anything bigger it would’ve been a ghost town. Problem with Sydney though is that they’d probably rather play at a way too big Allianz so they can wank on about how big a club they are...

I think it’s dodgy from the government for sure if that story is true. I’m yet to hear from or read any sort of significant general public support for the Allianz/ANZ plan Gladys and co keep pushing to try and basically one up Melbourne. People vote with their feet and suburban grounds keep winning. I don’t understand why the general public aren’t given more say when it’s those same people who will be attending these venues and returning the investment on them...

Local councils did not want to touch the local suburban grounds unless they got funding from state and federal government to either upgrade or redevelop their ground. That's why a lot of them are run down because local councils do not want to spend money on maintaining them to keep them at the minimum standard.

NRL clubs were being swayed by the guaranteed $100k per game to play at Homebush hence why there is like 5 or 6 clubs currently playing there instead of suburban grounds, clubs would consider playing at suburban grounds but they would make a loss playing there. These are the words of David Gallop when he was NRL CEO when he urged Sydney Clubs to play at either the SFS or ANZ stadium.

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If tribalism and suburban grounds are the "heart and soul" of rugby league, why aren't these venues sold out every week?

If we think the future of our game involves clubs playing in front of 12,000 people in suburban grounds, I can assure you your club will almost certainly go broke.

That's why more clubs are taking advantage of the financial benefits of playing at ANZ Stadium although the atmosphere is not what they would like. You can't put atmosphere in the bank.

The other thing was when Gallop was CEO for NRL, he was hell bent on of having a 2 stadium policy, similar to the what the AFL currently has in Melbourne which more or less proved to be successful as most of the Melbourne AFL clubs are within walking distances to each MCG and Docklands, Sydney clubs to play out of either SFS or ANZ. I am not sure if that was the direction from Nein or Fox but that wasn't working Dragon fans hated travelling out to ANZ.

These deluded Manly fans on that link Mack shared have made some good points about this whole thing

 

Quote

 

Mark from Brisbane
#6
It’s so obvious what’s needed , but I think it’s ultimately about what the broadcasters who own the game want.

Eventually ( they’ll make it a prerequisite for clubs to retain their licence ) all games will be at these two grounds and then Fox and NEIN can set up the cameras permanently ( which saves them gazillions).

Then you’ll see a couple of “ heritage”games at the old grounds to keep the punters appeased.

Won’t happen in the next few years but watch this requirement coming in if not for the next broadcast deal the one after.

Fox and NEIN will simply put this on as a condition of their sponsorship.

Brace yourselves , it’s coming!!

 

Quote

 

Batty
#16
2019 Terd Greenflog
“Peter V’landys and I are absolutely aligned on the fact suburban grounds need money — it’s an absolute priority.

Vs

2018 Toad Greensprog:
“We would have the option to take the grand final to other states,” Greenberg said.
“We want this stadiums agreement to proceed.
“We have already had strong interest from other states wanting to host the grand final.
“Our strong preference is to see the new stadiums built and to keep the grand final in NSW but clearly if the MoU is not honoured we have to consider all options.”

The bloke is a clown of the highest order. I have no idea how he has maintained his role as the head of the NrL. Scary.

 


 

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The Allianz is at a stand still. No mob will pick up the re-build contract as it was underfunded from the get-go. Expect the 750 mil to blow out to way over a billion by the time it’s finished (2025?)

To think that Lowy has once suggested Greenberg to be our FFA CEO to replace Ben Buckley, we can we have almost avoided tragedy.

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2 hours ago, hughsey said:

V’landys could be a blessing for all codes in Sydney. He gets **** done and isn’t afraid of putting the pressure on Government so if he decides that he wants to target suburban stadia then there’s a good chance they will get some attention.

Just look at Sydney’s crowd at Leichhardt last night. It looked fantastic yet at Allianz or anything bigger it would’ve been a ghost town. Problem with Sydney though is that they’d probably rather play at a way too big Allianz so they can wank on about how big a club they are...

I think it’s dodgy from the government for sure if that story is true. I’m yet to hear from or read any sort of significant general public support for the Allianz/ANZ plan Gladys and co keep pushing to try and basically one up Melbourne. People vote with their feet and suburban grounds keep winning. I don’t understand why the general public aren’t given more say when it’s those same people who will be attending these venues and returning the investment on them...

 

There was this thing called the state election, where we all had a chance to vote on the state government's stadium policy, yet in the end enough people were more worried about a stupid comment by the then ALP leader than seeing millions pissed away to keep the likes of Alan Jones and Tony Shepherd happy.

Meanwhile we have state policy made by either shock jocks, God botherers or 'colourful racing identities'. 

Gotta love NSW.

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5 minutes ago, Carns said:

20+ years of Labor corruption hasn't helped their cause with being popular with voters either. This one was always going to be a close call, Labor were never shoe-ins.

Certainly some issues with the ALP that stink, and they needed to be addressed.

However the Coalition have had several terms in power in the state parliament and they are at the beck & call of shonks, 'colourful racing identities', the SCG Trust & all manner of shills. And right now when it comes to their much vaunted stadium policy it's stuck in nowhere's land because they have no one ready or willing to tender for the rebuild of ANZ. 

All while several other infrastructure programs have either not been delivered, been delayed, or are beset with all manner of issues.

And the only world class sporting event that they have been able to associate the 1/3 finished stadium policy with is our doomed to fail 2023 WWC bid.

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3 hours ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

And the only world class sporting event that they have been able to associate the 1/3 finished stadium policy with is our doomed to fail 2023 WWC bid.

WWC bid will fail....plus the WWC doesn't need these stadiums and I very much doubt whether either will be functional in 2023 !!

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4 hours ago, MartinTyler said:

WWC bid will fail....plus the WWC doesn't need these stadiums and I very much doubt whether either will be functional in 2023 !!

So far the only state governments that have signed up to the bid are NSW and Queensland.

Based on that info the following stadia are probably going to feature as possible venues in these two states based on the criteria set out by FIFA (details listed at the bottom of the list)

NSW:

  • Parramatta
  • Olympic Stadium (assuming it is either left untouched or renovated in time)
  • SFS (assuming rebuilt in time)
  • Newcastle (assuming it is upgraded to include all seating & meet corporate, change room requirements)
  • Wollongong (same as Newcastle)

I would suspect that Soulless will be out of the running as it will not be made available due to the probable availability of other venues plus its AFL focus)

QLD:

  • Suncorp
  • Robina
  • Townsville

EBVTVEIU0AU0K2w?format=png&name=small

Right now of the stadia listed I'd suggest only Parra, Sydney Olympic, Suncorp and Townsville are definite starters. The 2019 WWC needed 9 stadia so the FFA, our bid team and FIFA will want at least 5 stadia ready to host games that meet the FIFA requirements. AAMI in Melbourne should be added to the list, but then it gets very problematic thanks to the AFL. We've already seen South Australia's state government reject the bid, and won't change its mind on Adelaide Oval unless they, SACA & the AFL can get the deal they want (Hindmarsh is a non starter). Optus in Perth would meet the technical requirements as would the MCG in Melbourne, but as we know the AFL will kick up a stink. As for the ACT Bruce Stadium could be considered if they do more with their change facilities etc.

Bottom line, the 2023 WWC bid is still to present a satisfactory range of appropriate stadia across most states that will not be liable to issues re the AFL or other sports. If, as may happen, the 2023 Finals go to a 32 team comp that may mean 12 stadia will be required, and that is definitely out of the reach of the FFA & those associated with the bid politically. Oh, and let's not forget the requirements re training grounds etc.

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3 hours ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

So far the only state governments that have signed up to the bid are NSW and Queensland.

Based on that info the following stadia are probably going to feature as possible venues in these two states based on the criteria set out by FIFA (details listed at the bottom of the list)

NSW:

  • Parramatta
  • Olympic Stadium (assuming it is either left untouched or renovated in time)
  • SFS (assuming rebuilt in time)
  • Newcastle (assuming it is upgraded to include all seating & meet corporate, change room requirements)
  • Wollongong (same as Newcastle)

I would suspect that Soulless will be out of the running as it will not be made available due to the probable availability of other venues plus its AFL focus)

QLD:

  • Suncorp
  • Robina
  • Townsville

EBVTVEIU0AU0K2w?format=png&name=small

Right now of the stadia listed I'd suggest only Parra, Sydney Olympic, Suncorp and Townsville are definite starters. The 2019 WWC needed 9 stadia so the FFA, our bid team and FIFA will want at least 5 stadia ready to host games that meet the FIFA requirements. AAMI in Melbourne should be added to the list, but then it gets very problematic thanks to the AFL. We've already seen South Australia's state government reject the bid, and won't change its mind on Adelaide Oval unless they, SACA & the AFL can get the deal they want (Hindmarsh is a non starter). Optus in Perth would meet the technical requirements as would the MCG in Melbourne, but as we know the AFL will kick up a stink. As for the ACT Bruce Stadium could be considered if they do more with their change facilities etc.

Bottom line, the 2023 WWC bid is still to present a satisfactory range of appropriate stadia across most states that will not be liable to issues re the AFL or other sports. If, as may happen, the 2023 Finals go to a 32 team comp that may mean 12 stadia will be required, and that is definitely out of the reach of the FFA & those associated with the bid politically. Oh, and let's not forget the requirements re training grounds etc.

I would add Central Coast Stadium into the mix (even though it's borderline a 20,000 seater stadium). 

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7 hours ago, MathyouWSW said:

I would add Central Coast Stadium into the mix (even though it's borderline a 20,000 seater stadium). 

Central Coast would not have the requisite corporate & other fit out requirements needed by FIFA as a WWC stadium. It might be suitable as a training ground however.

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It has to be said, and this nominally takes the preceding discussion out of the thread, that if Australia was to combine its bid with NZ then many of the probs discussed would disappear. Plus, as suggested by the likes of Bonita Mersiades, it would strengthen our bid substantially.

Course FFA have their thumsb up their bum and minds in neutral so nothing happening on that front, and probably won't.

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  • 1 month later...

This article indicates the end of big National Team matches in Sydney with Stadium Australia to get its redevelopment 

Melbourne to host Bledisloe Cup opener with Sydney stadiums out of action https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/25/rugby-australia-melbourne-bledisloe-cup-host?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

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I can see that when work starts on redevelopment of ANZ stadium, it will be somehow come to a halt in the middle of the redevelopment because of the cost blowouts just like what happened with the SFS with only Bankwest, SCG and Spotless stadium to be the only stadiums left standing.

The state government have some how planned this very poorly just like Abbott and his crooks poorly planed the NBN.

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23 minutes ago, SBW said:

The state government have some how planned this very poorly just like Abbott and his crooks poorly planed the NBN.

Planned for the NBN was Fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP) for 93% of all households.

What we got instead was a wrecking ball when the Emperor (Murdoch) told his minions (Abbott》Turnbull) that his empire would flounder (and his riches) if FTTP happened. Instead we got the substandard Fibre-to-the-node (FTTN). As they (Abbott & co) did the bidding of the Emperor, he guaranteed influence and money on an ongoing basis to the conservatives. 

Planning for the conservatives is how best to get money to your mates to help them maximize their profits so that they can donate to the next election campaign. F*** em

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11 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Walked past the pleasantly 'open space' (enclosed in a fence with inactivity behind it) on way to SCG and U2 (crap venue for a great band!).  It is basically nothing.  I suppose something is happening behind the low fence emblazoned with NSW Govt propaganda.

 

So the rebuild of the SFS is delayed. 

And the SCG was supposed to be Smurfs "big" venue. Wonder how they wheedled out of playing there without a penalty. I suppose the SCG Trust hates football so no penalty 

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