Squad Development 2017/18

[wswtragic]

12 hours ago, Taurus said:

I'm sure I've provided an update on Terry. He won't be back, see his player thread

It's a shame - he settled our very badly leaning ship in the second half of the season, and I don't think a lot of people realised just how big a difference he made. Wish him the best, but hope he gets bored overseas

[MartinTyler]

15 hours ago, Roycarlton2012 said:

Kris commons has left Celtic he's an attacking midfielder might be worth a shout 

and when Borda Fs off , Scott jamieson would be worth picking up for WSW  . he an Clisby can be our fullback and push risdon up to the wing 

Chris Commons is severely injury prone these days....No Thanks !!

[Edinburgh]

3 hours ago, nickg said:

We going to hear about Baccus this week? And hopefully Borda out?

Not sure it signifies anything, but - the club membership brochure I received yesterday featured 2 players - Santa and Baccus.  I'm tempted to take that as a clear indication that Baccus is staying.

[Paul01]

8 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Not sure it signifies anything, but - the club membership brochure I received yesterday featured 2 players - Santa and Baccus.  I'm tempted to take that as a clear indication that Baccus is staying.

I assume you mean the Baccus Senior

[Edinburgh]

2 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

I assume you mean the Baccus Senior

Certainly do.

[RedBlackOle]

20 hours ago, Taurus said:

I'm not cranky @Pup55, not sure where you get that from. This is a cranky face 

I am however, concerned that someone (your source) couldn't maintain confidentiality until the deal is done, or the offer expired on May 31st.  

FWIW his local agent hasn't discussed the length of contract with WSW, so unless his Spanish agent has contacted WSW directly, very unlikely I'm told, those details are yet to be determined. 

BTW others have split the beans, so I shouldn't be surprised that his identity finally got out

Inner WSW‏ @RedBlackOle

Following

@ORiera9 Sydney te espera, Oriol...

 

 

 

9:35 AM - 27 May 2017

 

Taurus, that was me based on your clues and the discussion here - so no-one else was spilling the beans, really, beyond us doing our detective work.

I was keen to give him a nudge if he was wondering about wandering - a fishing expedition, really, since everything had gone quiet here.

[Taurus]

43 minutes ago, RedBlackOle said:

Taurus, that was me based on your clues and the discussion here - so no-one else was spilling the beans, really, beyond us doing our detective work.

I was keen to give him a nudge if he was wondering about wandering - a fishing expedition, really, since everything had gone quiet here.

Had you read my posts thoroughly, you would've gathered that he was attempting to negotiate a way out of the final year of his current contract, without alerting his La Liga club, that other clubs were potential keen to secure his services. WSW aren't keen to pay transfer fees to secure players. 

By all means have a guess about a players identity, but don't compromise the clubs attempt to secure players by sending tweets to them. 

After all, I had described the negotiations as delicate or 50/50, hence why I hadn't mentioned his name. 

Hopefully, no damage has been done & we're able to secure his signature in the next 24 hours. 

[Jungle]

So Taurus any more clues.... 

 

[Upthehill]

1 hour ago, Taurus said:

Had you read my posts thoroughly, you would've gathered that he was attempting to negotiate a way out of the final year of his current contract, without alerting his La Liga club, that other clubs were potential keen to secure his services. WSW aren't keen to pay transfer fees to secure players. 

By all means have a guess about a players identity, but don't compromise the clubs attempt to secure players by sending tweets to them. 

After all, I had described the negotiations as delicate or 50/50, hence why I hadn't mentioned his name. 

Hopefully, no damage has been done & we're able to secure his signature in the next 24 hours. 

I'm not overly sure how you expected this to go. I'm not aware of your capacity at the club is but I would recommend not disclosing sensitive information on a public forum. 

It's great fun for all of us but if you're going to get bummed the club for doing so I can't see what there is to gain.

Most of the people here seem like good blokes but you'll always have lurkers who don't really care what the repurcussions are for you

[GunnerWanderer]

Yeah have to concur with above to be honest 

in this day and age with social media the way it is this has the capacity to go this way

then again if it's all smoke and mirrors and this guy is just a diversion... 

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

tbh i'd rather we stuck with scott and santa and bought some decent wingers and a quality #10 so scott can get some better service and allow him to develop.

but i thought we went alright this season so my opinion counts for ****.

[wswtragic]

I think he's probably out the door at Deportivo anyway. It would then be a matter of negotiation.

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/2017/05/27/osasuna/oriol-riera-no-entra-en-los-planes-del-deportivo

[Upthehill]

11 minutes ago, wswtragic said:

I think he's probably out the door at Deportivo anyway. It would then be a matter of negotiation.

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/2017/05/27/osasuna/oriol-riera-no-entra-en-los-planes-del-deportivo

For us plebs with no spanish, what's the long and he short of it?

[Paul01]

11 minutes ago, Upthehill said:

For us plebs with no spanish, what's the long and he short of it?

Oriol Riera does not enter the plans of Deportivo

[wswtragic]

2 minutes ago, Upthehill said:

For us plebs with no spanish, what's the long and he short of it?

I used the translate function - I speak a little Italian, but I'm buggered on the Spanish.

It says he doesn't figure in their plans for next season.

[GD07]

6 hours ago, MartinTyler said:

Chris Commons is severely injury prone these days....No Thanks !!

Um…not really. He just didn't play at Celtic because there were better players in the squad for his position. He had a short term loan at Hibs. It doesn't matter anyway because his wife basically said they're staying in Glasgow. 

[StringerBellend]

So what do we think of this dude if we get him? Played at a high level, his goal scoring record of late isn't exactly amazing.

From his YouTube clips we might finally score a few from headers (especially as risdon can actually cross a ball)

At least it seems like tha club are willing to spend money to compete. 

 

[Upthehill]

11 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So what do we think of this dude if we get him? Played at a high level, his goal scoring record of late isn't exactly amazing.

From his YouTube clips we might finally score a few from headers (especially as risdon can actually cross a ball)

At least it seems like tha club are willing to spend money to compete. 

 

Piovacarri came with a better goals per game. Then again Fornaroli came having barely notched up 20 senior goals. Bobo played exactly as expected and then you have guys like Berisha who averaged a goal every 520 minutes before arriving. We seriously need a crystal ball in this league

Its a mixed bag, but coming with a goal every 5 games in La Liga isn't bad when you consider probably started very few of them. I doubt anyone here knows his playing style and work ethic so I guess we will find out when he gets here

Edited May 31, 2017 by Upthehill

[Unlimited]

Also Castro was 78 on FIFA, he was always going to be a great player...

[wswnick]

 

"I'm sad for the descent; It has not been an easy season. But I'm leaving satisfied by all the love I have received. You hop #Osasuna!"

[mack]

Popular theory holds that a striker scoring a goal every 2 games (0.50) goals per game) is doing their job.

This is basically regardless of the level you're playing (as if you do worse you should move down a level, and if you're better you should move up).Between 0.50 & 0.75 is above average. Any player who can get close to a goal per game, from around 0.80 to 1 goals per game is far above the level of other players and would only have a handful of players close to them (if any).

These are players like Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Drogba, Kane at various points in their career. Obviously, doing that at Champions League, EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga level makes you a world class player.

The idea that 0.50 goals per game is simply "doing the job" doesn't really apply in the A-League.

In the A-League, Fornaroli is the highest. He is at 0.75 goals per game with 42 goals in 56 games (prior to joining City his ratio was 0.21). It's incredible to think that the next highest regular player was Marc Janko, and SFC cut him. Janko & Berisha are at 0.65 goals per game. Obviously Berisha has been doing it for years, and for more than one club. He has also scored important goals that win trophies. That's why I consider Berisha the best player ever in the A-League. In a 30 game season should be scoring 15 to 20 games per season. 

Anyone who gets at or above 0.5 goals per game over a long term should be considered one of the best strikers ever in the A-League. That list is currently: Fornaroli, Janko, Berisha, Maclaren, Bobo, Cahill, Del Piero. There are some players who didn't play a huge amount of games but still managed good ratios and goes to show what high class players can do even in short periods of time, these are David Villa, Benito Carbone & Kazu.

The next tier down is players from 0.49 to 0.45 goals per game. This lot includes Diego Castro at the top with 0.491 (practically 0.50), Keogh at 0.486, Smeltz at 0.484, van Dijk at 0.476 & Eugene Dadi with 0.469. A player within this range is a consistent goal scorer and above the general pack of A-League players. Some like Smeltz & Dadi have done it for multiple clubs, Keogh left and came back and is still at this level.

Diego Castro stands out here because not only is he the highest in this range, he's also not really a striker, he's a winger, or perhaps an "inside forward" like how the Wanderers used to play Mark Bridge. Castro was playing in La Liga before he joined Perth, for Gijon & Getafe combined his scoring rate was 0.20 GPG (although production had dropped off in his last two seasons) which is very good for a non-striker in the Spanish First Division. This season with Keogh & Castro as marquees together Perth should be at a minimum, making the Semi-Finals. If they are tactically well prepared, and the rest of their squad is put together well, should really aim for the Grand Final and a top 2 league finish.

It also shows that City, with the FFA cheating them to three marquees, which includes two players with a 0.5 or better goals per game ratio, are woefully underachieving. They should have been in the grand final. Both City & Perth underachieved in the league, which meant they faced each other, City compounded their underachievement by being knocked out, and then Perth achieved what I see as a "standard" finals position of reaching the semi-final.

A striker from 0.45 down to about 0.35 is at the "doing their job" level in the A-League (anyone who isn't a striker is doing well if they are at this level or higher). This includes a lot of players, some who played a long time, some who didn't. Roy O'Donovan, Trifunovic, Taggart, Archie Thompson, Joel Griffiths, Bobby Despotovski, Santalab, Allsopp are all this level. A team who sign a player at this level can expect them to score around 10 goals a season. Also note that due to the foreign requirements, signing a player at this level who is foreign may not be the best use of that spot.

Now for the Wanderers.

As we all know our striker situation has been woeful.

Kresiginer has an awful 0.08 GPG rate. Santalab has 0.36. Juric 0.34. Bridge 0.25. Piovaccari managed 0.16. Vidosic 0.25. Santalab & Juric are our best. For some comparisons, Kevin Muscat has an 0.23 rate basically from penalties & and the occasional set piece. Castelen was 0.20. Ninkovic is at 0.25. Carrusca 0.21. Many of our "strikers" have scored at or around the same rate as players who aren't strikers or even wing-fowards. It isn't good enough.

Piovaccari's record prior to coming here was 0.30 GPG, much of which (if not all to be honest) was in leagues better than ours.

Oriol's is 0.25 GPG, getting worse the higher the level he played at. His recent GPG rate in Spanish League 1 & his 1 year in the Championship is only 0.18 (worse than Castro in the same division despite Castro not being a striker), slightly better than Fornaroli who was in all sorts of different countries. Oriol's second division stats are better, just over this "all time" 0.25 GPG rate.

He's going to need to improve massively on career output to be valuable to us, especially valuable enough to help win a trophy or two. Is the drop in quality from Spain to the A-League enough to help him push to double his output? He hasn't scored more than 10 goals in a season since 2014 and he's not getting younger. If he is going to be our highest ever paid player we need Janko, Berisha, Bobo, Maclaren level of goals. Keogh, Smeltz, O'Donovan level isn't good enough for a marquee striker.

Hopefully we finally get our own Berisha, and not another Piovaccari flop.

[Taurus]

6 hours ago, Upthehill said:

I'm not overly sure how you expected this to go. I'm not aware of your capacity at the club is but I would recommend not disclosing sensitive information on a public forum. 

It's great fun for all of us but if you're going to get bummed the club for doing so I can't see what there is to gain.

Most of the people here seem like good blokes but you'll always have lurkers who don't really care what the repurcussions are for you

I'm not an employee of the club, but do from time to time, get access to inside info. 

Just use the private message / DM function if you're unsure whether disclosing the info could be damaging. 

Everything appears to be falling into place in regard to securing his signature, but we don't need to louse it up, at the final hurdle

[Roycarlton2012]

https://aligaweb.wordpress.com/2017/05/31/a-league-el-western-sydney-estaria-interesado-en-oriol-riera/

this might be old info we already know but I'm not sure I don't speak Spanish 

[wswtragic]

13 minutes ago, Roycarlton2012 said:

https://aligaweb.wordpress.com/2017/05/31/a-league-el-western-sydney-estaria-interesado-en-oriol-riera/

this might be old info we already know but I'm not sure I don't speak Spanish 

Good to see the foreign press use "social media" for stories - now, what site could they be talking about

[Paul01]

24 minutes ago, wswtragic said:

Good to see the foreign press use "social media" for stories - now, what site could they be talking about

Translation 

The latest rumors indicate that the Wanderers will raise an offer to get the services of the Spanish striker for next season.

In social networks is taking force the version of the Western Sydney Wanderers is making efforts to hire the Spanish Oriol Riera. The forward, whose chip belongs to Deportivo La Coruna, was on loan last season at Osasuna where he played 22 games and scored 4 goals.

A product of the quarry of FC Barcelona and of an extended race for different Spanish clubs, the attacker also had his way through the foreign soccer. Between 2014 and 2015 Riera was part of Wigan Athletic, team that during that season was disputing the second category of English football.

That is to say that there has not yet been any official pronouncement by the WSW, so this information should still be taken as a rumor

[T1m]

12 hours ago, mack said:

Popular theory holds that a striker scoring a goal every 2 games (0.50) goals per game) is doing their job.

This is basically regardless of the level you're playing (as if you do worse you should move down a level, and if you're better you should move up).Between 0.50 & 0.75 is above average. Any player who can get close to a goal per game, from around 0.80 to 1 goals per game is far above the level of other players and would only have a handful of players close to them (if any).

These are players like Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Drogba, Kane at various points in their career. Obviously, doing that at Champions League, EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga level makes you a world class player.

The idea that 0.50 goals per game is simply "doing the job" doesn't really apply in the A-League.

In the A-League, Fornaroli is the highest. He is at 0.75 goals per game with 42 goals in 56 games (prior to joining City his ratio was 0.21). It's incredible to think that the next highest regular player was Marc Janko, and SFC cut him. Janko & Berisha are at 0.65 goals per game. Obviously Berisha has been doing it for years, and for more than one club. He has also scored important goals that win trophies. That's why I consider Berisha the best player ever in the A-League. In a 30 game season should be scoring 15 to 20 games per season. 

Anyone who gets at or above 0.5 goals per game over a long term should be considered one of the best strikers ever in the A-League. That list is currently: Fornaroli, Janko, Berisha, Maclaren, Bobo, Cahill, Del Piero. There are some players who didn't play a huge amount of games but still managed good ratios and goes to show what high class players can do even in short periods of time, these are David Villa, Benito Carbone & Kazu.

The next tier down is players from 0.49 to 0.45 goals per game. This lot includes Diego Castro at the top with 0.491 (practically 0.50), Keogh at 0.486, Smeltz at 0.484, van Dijk at 0.476 & Eugene Dadi with 0.469. A player within this range is a consistent goal scorer and above the general pack of A-League players. Some like Smeltz & Dadi have done it for multiple clubs, Keogh left and came back and is still at this level.

Diego Castro stands out here because not only is he the highest in this range, he's also not really a striker, he's a winger, or perhaps an "inside forward" like how the Wanderers used to play Mark Bridge. Castro was playing in La Liga before he joined Perth, for Gijon & Getafe combined his scoring rate was 0.20 GPG (although production had dropped off in his last two seasons) which is very good for a non-striker in the Spanish First Division. This season with Keogh & Castro as marquees together Perth should be at a minimum, making the Semi-Finals. If they are tactically well prepared, and the rest of their squad is put together well, should really aim for the Grand Final and a top 2 league finish.

It also shows that City, with the FFA cheating them to three marquees, which includes two players with a 0.5 or better goals per game ratio, are woefully underachieving. They should have been in the grand final. Both City & Perth underachieved in the league, which meant they faced each other, City compounded their underachievement by being knocked out, and then Perth achieved what I see as a "standard" finals position of reaching the semi-final.

A striker from 0.45 down to about 0.35 is at the "doing their job" level in the A-League (anyone who isn't a striker is doing well if they are at this level or higher). This includes a lot of players, some who played a long time, some who didn't. Roy O'Donovan, Trifunovic, Taggart, Archie Thompson, Joel Griffiths, Bobby Despotovski, Santalab, Allsopp are all this level. A team who sign a player at this level can expect them to score around 10 goals a season. Also note that due to the foreign requirements, signing a player at this level who is foreign may not be the best use of that spot.

Now for the Wanderers.

As we all know our striker situation has been woeful.

Kresiginer has an awful 0.08 GPG rate. Santalab has 0.36. Juric 0.34. Bridge 0.25. Piovaccari managed 0.16. Vidosic 0.25. Santalab & Juric are our best. For some comparisons, Kevin Muscat has an 0.23 rate basically from penalties & and the occasional set piece. Castelen was 0.20. Ninkovic is at 0.25. Carrusca 0.21. Many of our "strikers" have scored at or around the same rate as players who aren't strikers or even wing-fowards. It isn't good enough.

Piovaccari's record prior to coming here was 0.30 GPG, much of which (if not all to be honest) was in leagues better than ours.

Oriol's is 0.25 GPG, getting worse the higher the level he played at. His recent GPG rate in Spanish League 1 & his 1 year in the Championship is only 0.18 (worse than Castro in the same division despite Castro not being a striker), slightly better than Fornaroli who was in all sorts of different countries. Oriol's second division stats are better, just over this "all time" 0.25 GPG rate.

He's going to need to improve massively on career output to be valuable to us, especially valuable enough to help win a trophy or two. Is the drop in quality from Spain to the A-League enough to help him push to double his output? He hasn't scored more than 10 goals in a season since 2014 and he's not getting younger. If he is going to be our highest ever paid player we need Janko, Berisha, Bobo, Maclaren level of goals. Keogh, Smeltz, O'Donovan level isn't good enough for a marquee striker.

Hopefully we finally get our own Berisha, and not another Piovaccari flop.

You should use goals per minute not goals per game.

If a player plays 5 minutes every game of the year (27 games) and maybe scores 1 goal.  They have a GPG ratio of 0.04 but a MPG of 135 which is decent.

That puts Santalab up near the top for the past two seasons: season 16/17 84.5 minutes per goal.  Maclaren got 115.5.

 

[ZachMercer]

A-league: Western Sydney would be interested in Oriol Riera
Image result for oriol riera wigan
The Spaniard could land in the A-league.

The latest rumors indicate that the Wanderers will raise an offer to get the services of the Spanish striker for next season.

In social networks is taking force the version of the Western Sydney Wanderers is making efforts to hire the Spanish Oriol Riera. The forward, whose chip belongs to Deportivo La Coruna, was on loan last season at Osasuna where he played 22 games and scored 4 goals.

A product of the quarry of FC Barcelona and of an extended race for different Spanish clubs, the attacker also had his way through the foreign soccer. Between 2014 and 2015 Riera was part of Wigan Athletic, team that during that season was disputing the second category of English football.

That is to say that there has not yet been any official statement by the WSW, so this information should still be taken as a rumor.

 

[Upthehill]

10 hours ago, Taurus said:

I'm not an employee of the club, but do from time to time, get access to inside info. 

Just use the private message / DM function if you're unsure whether disclosing the info could be damaging. 

Everything appears to be falling into place in regard to securing his signature, but we don't need to louse it up, at the final hurdle

I don't even have twitter so I won't be spraying messages to proposed players. 

My point is that you've likely got kids and the like that lurk, whose decision making is somewhat lacking.

We do appreciate the insights though!

[Erebus]

Don't know how anyone can make a judgement on a player they've never seen play before. Stats only tell a fraction of the story.

Whomever we sign, we all judge them on the pitch on their determination, heart, output and results. Simple as that.

[Upthehill]

9 minutes ago, Erebus said:

Don't know how anyone can make a judgement on a player they've never seen play before. Stats only tell a fraction of the story.

Whomever we sign, we all judge them on the pitch on their determination, heart, output and results. Simple as that.

I didn't think we did pass judgement on him. Lots of speculation, and isn't that what the thread is for? We don't get to watch football so all we can do is speculate and gaze into our crystal balls