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Football Media Discussion 2

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9 minutes ago, leslie said:

We really missed the chance to do some good when the wrong expansion teams were chosen, just to keep FOX happy.

Amazing isn’t it the expansion teams that were supposed to reinvigorate the league at the moment are dragging the average crowds down, still as we know it will all be fine when they get a new stadium. New stadiums fix everything 

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2 hours ago, HillsWanderer said:

J League coming to Optus.

Very exciting news to be honest be awesome to see the quality of our neighbours and what A-league can grab from the best league in Asia

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16 hours ago, mack said:

Wow, who would have thought the governing body of a sport and it's top tier league would need to do a better job of selling the value of it's product and help sponsors tap into the power of the sport.

Lol.

The FFA couldn't tap the fans into the power of the sport.

They were exceptional at tipping them out!

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There's been a noticeable trend across all sport of major companies pulling out of the sponsorship sector. From personal experience, it's also a really hard slog these days pulling sponsors especially in sport. 

I honestly think that sports sponsorship just isn't as profitable or attractive anymore. It's always been hard to give a truly accurate ROI for a sponsorship arrangement and I think it's getting harder with sport diversifying and becoming less traditional. People's veiwing habits are changing, the way people are digesting content is changing and I think a lot of companies are realising that their investment isn't going as far as it once was. That or companies are rethinking their marketing spends and seeing other ways in which they can spend that money better. 

Where companies were once happy with viewership figures and the "association", they now want trackable leads and sales. They want to know exactly how many people are buying their service or product based on that sponsorship. We've had a prominent education provider say to us that they want x amounts of leads and x amounts of enrollments directly from our sponsorship arrangement or otherwise they aren't renewing. So unless we get a certain amount of our members clicking through a specific link then enrolling, we won't be getting another sponsorship deal. They aren't happy anymore just to have the association with our sport and access to our members/databases. Visibility used to be a big thing, but it doesn't seem to be anymore.  

I'd say these companies are more than happy to take their sponsorship budgets and reinvest them in digital advertising and social media. Especially if they have an existing profile in their sector.

Hyundai 15 years ago was a minnow in the car industry. Korean cars had a terrible reputation and they were struggling against the Ford's and Holden's of the world. The association of them with the A-League back then made sense for their market position. But it doesn't now. Hyundai is in the top three car brands in Australia now and they don't need the leverage anymore. 

Hopefully this is a good thing for the league. I think there are a lot more options out there now than back 15 years ago. We either need a large international company (demz oil monies) or a "challenger" brand who's looking to establish themselves in the market.   

Edited by CaptainJess

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20 hours ago, Paul01 said:

A-league discussed in this article where Fox Sports drop Rugby Union broadcasting 

Rugby set for broadcast shake-up http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-06/rugby-set-for-broadcast-shake-up-fox-sports/11935800

I find it remarkable that even non-newscorp outlets are ignoring the fact Fox is dying rapidly cause of their stubbornness to innovate and move into the new age of technology. The narrative continually suggests this is an issue exclusive to rugby union and football which is not true.  Wait until the NRL and AFL rights are up and the **** will really hit the fan. Fox may not even exist the way they’re going, let alone be able to offer a greater deal.

Fox tied all of our domestic competitions up and took strict control over them. They still operate with the same model they did 15-20 years ago despite changes to technology and consumption habits, which has restricted any meaningful development or innovation of the competitions themselves. It’s been hard for most to even plan for the future cause they are so tightly bound contractually. Now the empire is falling and each sport one by one is getting put out on its arse. Difference is that each sport will recover and move on, Fox not so much. 

Optus presents a case study for exactly what Fox Sports should’ve started doing 5-10 years ago aka Kayo. Great product but it’s too late now. Rugby and likely football next, will begin moving into the new age of predominantly streaming, (potentially) in house content production, multiple platforms etc. and get the jump on the other codes, which in 5-10 years time could be the best thing to happen to us when we’re well established and the rest are still catching up.

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Completely agree hughesy. I think part of the reason Fox is struggling and talking about punting sports is because of the huge **** off broadcast deals given to the AFL, NRL and cricket. Even though they paid millions for the deals, the viewership hasn't changed. If anything, broadcast figures have gone backwards. So now they're paying crazy amounts of money for the same **** they were paying a fraction for a few years ago. It's easier to punt sports like football and union than to fix the real issues. AFL and NRL are going to be up **** creek because I don't see them getting anywhere near what they got in their last negotiations. 

I wouldn't look at this as a negative for football. I think a streaming/FTA deal would be ideal for the sport. If any sport has the potential for fans to take up streaming in droves, it's football. Fans have already been doing it for years. Sports like rugby will struggle. If Optus aren't seriously looking at bringing us on board, I would be shocked. They seem to want to expand their football offering and what they've done with the EPL has been impressive. 

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But look at the rights for the EPL and the NFL for example? They just seem to continue to increase every renewal.  So maybe it is an Aussie thing?

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3 hours ago, CaptainJess said:

Completely agree hughesy. I think part of the reason Fox is struggling and talking about punting sports is because of the huge **** off broadcast deals given to the AFL, NRL and cricket. Even though they paid millions for the deals, the viewership hasn't changed. If anything, broadcast figures have gone backwards. So now they're paying crazy amounts of money for the same **** they were paying a fraction for a few years ago. It's easier to punt sports like football and union than to fix the real issues. AFL and NRL are going to be up **** creek because I don't see them getting anywhere near what they got in their last negotiations. 

I wouldn't look at this as a negative for football. I think a streaming/FTA deal would be ideal for the sport. If any sport has the potential for fans to take up streaming in droves, it's football. Fans have already been doing it for years. Sports like rugby will struggle. If Optus aren't seriously looking at bringing us on board, I would be shocked. They seem to want to expand their football offering and what they've done with the EPL has been impressive. 

Football/A-League should be aiming to have a future deal sorted before the NRL/AFL rights come up again in a 2-3 years time. If we can get the jump then it will spare us being caught up in (and a potential casualty) in the impending shitstorm cause I really don’t know where either code is going to go if it’s not Fox. I’d much rather be a guinea pig for a new approach/product than having to fight for the scraps once NRL and AFL are sorted.

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2 hours ago, beatsurrender said:

But look at the rights for the EPL and the NFL for example? They just seem to continue to increase every renewal.  So maybe it is an Aussie thing?

You’re talking about two of the most followed competitions in the world though, their scale is far greater than anything in Australia can compete with. Having said that though, now that Amazon Prime is showing some of the EPL I recall reading something about a predicted shake up and possible decline in coming years because you’ve got smaller amounts of content on a greater variety of platforms which diluted that one mammoth lump sum we’ve become used to seeing. As for America, they’ve had media experts warning of the failings of traditional broadcast methods for a while now.

Even without all of these issues coming into play, the reality is that the last decade or so has seen a rise in TV right money that has been stupidly excessive. Take the EPL for example who between 2010 and 2016 climbed from £1.7b to £5.1b. The NRL and AFL went through huge increases in a short space of time also, not so long ago. That sort of trajectory along with most tv rights worldwide is not sustainable long term. The smaller sports/leagues are the first to be caught up with and I predict the effect will just make its way up the food chain. 

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3 hours ago, beatsurrender said:

Don't mind Roy usually but he's missed the mark big time there imo. He proved exactly my point I made above earlier today - it's easy to sling **** at football and union. Wait for a few years time when no one can afford/be willing to give NRL and AFL what they want... There's a few nasty surprises incoming over the next few years.

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9 hours ago, CaptainJess said:

I wouldn't look at this as a negative for football. I think a streaming/FTA deal would be ideal for the sport.

 

10 hours ago, hughsey said:

the best thing to happen to us when we’re well established and the rest are still catching up.

I’m not so positive to be honest, going down the streaming path isn’t the challenge. It’s how much money will be raised as a result of the broadcast deal?

The current deal is worth 55-60m a year which funds the salary cap. Keep in mind that is 60m on top of the broadcasting costs. Roughly $80k per game, $480k per round (6 teams). So somewhere between 12m (25 rounds) & 14.5m (30 rounds).

So the question is who will throw that sort of dollars at the A-League? Foxtel have sent signals that they have overpaid & the outdated ratings method (that ignores any form of streaming) shows this to be true. Where does it’s true value lie?

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3 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

 

I’m not so positive to be honest, going down the streaming path isn’t the challenge. It’s how much money will be raised as a result of the broadcast deal?

The current deal is worth 55-60m a year which funds the salary cap. Keep in mind that is 60m on top of the broadcasting costs. Roughly $80k per game, $480k per round (6 teams). So somewhere between 12m (25 rounds) & 14.5m (30 rounds).

So the question is who will throw that sort of dollars at the A-League? Foxtel have sent signals that they have overpaid & the outdated ratings method (that ignores any form of streaming) shows this to be true. Where does it’s true value lie?

I understand the money argument but our current paymasters are also a big reason why we are on a downwards trajectory that doesn't look like being reversed anytime soon. We could keep receiving our $50-60m for the next 3 years but what health is the league going to be in, in 3 years time, following this viscous cycle? The annual payments are just masking what I think is an impending disaster - we need to be looking at the bigger picture, not just season to season. I think it needs to be accepted that it's highly unlikely the A-League will remain with Fox after this current deal.

While we still have some level of health to the league and have some form of income, I think we are better to at least explore/enquire about new avenues so there is something in place in preparation. I really hope this is going on behind the scenes right now. Otherwise, we are going to get 3 years down the track and be completely out on our ass all together because even if Fox did want to re-bid for the A-League, there's no guarantee they would be in a position to be able to particularly as the NRL and AFL rights will be up also and they'll be flat out affording to renew them.

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24 minutes ago, hughsey said:

reason why we are on a downwards trajectory that doesn't look like being reversed anytime soon.

This I will give you a 100%. Cant have a situation again where the broadcaster dictates afternoon game in the middle of summer or having to have fewer rounds cause it costs too much.

24 minutes ago, hughsey said:

We could keep receiving our $50-60m for the next 3 years but what health is the league going to be in, in 3 years time, following this viscous cycle?

I can’t see the A-League/clubs turning down the money. They’ve got 3 years while they are in control of the league before the deal runs out. They’ve being talking for years about how things will change when they take over? Maybe they can restructure the league? There was also talk about clubs looking for investors to buy into the league injecting capital? There was also talk of owners more willing to spend on marquees & marketing but that’s yet to be seen.

Can see the clubs getting as much money they can for the remainder of the deal & restructure the league based on a smaller tv deal.

The biggest issue is that the PFA have tied the salary cap to the tv deal. Perhaps the new tv deal will see the end of the salary cap by default rather than stakeholders pushing for a change.

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13 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

This I will give you a 100%. Cant have a situation again where the broadcaster dictates afternoon game in the middle of summer or having to have fewer rounds cause it costs too much.

I can’t see the A-League/clubs turning down the money. They’ve got 3 years while they are in control of the league before the deal runs out. They’ve being talking for years about how things will change when they take over? Maybe they can restructure the league? There was also talk about clubs looking for investors to buy into the league injecting capital? There was also talk of owners more willing to spend on marquees & marketing but that’s yet to be seen.

Can see the clubs getting as much money they can for the remainder of the deal & restructure the league based on a smaller tv deal.

The biggest issue is that the PFA have tied the salary cap to the tv deal. Perhaps the new tv deal will see the end of the salary cap by default rather than stakeholders pushing for a change.

Fingers crossed they have something up their sleeve. I know someone who works for an A-League club and apparently there is a strong desire from the clubs to pursue an eventual deal with Optus. Hopefully that is true and planning is underway

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Is that the same Optus that purchases existing broadcast  packages, and to the best of my knowledge hasn’t as yet demonstrated any desire to create the sort of local, physical broadcast presence maintained by Fox Sports? And the clubs want a reasonable amount of money that at the very least equals the current deal?

I wish the clubs luck with that.

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Yes it's the production costs. The outside broadcast.  Who will do that?

Plus the VAR costs a bomb every game.  That may go too.  (No loss)

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7 minutes ago, beatsurrender said:

Yes it's the production costs. The outside broadcast.  Who will do that?

I forgot how much the production of the pre/post game costs & that would be an added cost to my calculations.

Maybe if the A-league brought the production in house to reduce the pressure on the rights holder? That’s a lot of pressure to take on but that’s also a lot of capital injection required to get off the ground & sustain?

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10 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

I forgot how much the production of the pre/post game costs & that would be an added cost to my calculations.

Maybe if the A-league brought the production in house to reduce the pressure on the rights holder? That’s a lot of pressure to take on but that’s also a lot of capital injection required to get off the ground & sustain?

I’d assume Optus would produce their own pre/post game content like they do for certain games/match days currently. 

Seems like it’s mainly the actual production of game footage that is what we’d need to be doing ourselves.

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Production isn't cheap but it's also not astronomical. 

Fox do a lot of their own production, however there are a load of external production companies that do it and often Fox just steals the feed.

I would think bringing it in-house would be expensive initially, but for me it seems like the best way forward. But the fact is, just because you don't have Fox doesn't mean you can't do it. If the rumors are true and Optus is on the table, I'm assuming it's one of the first negotiation points to be discussed. 

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There’s reports that the Premier League are looking at bringing out their own Netflix style streaming platform for the competition and reducing their business with external outlets. So basically what Optus sport offer but removing the middle man it seems. 

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It seems a few leagues and different sports around the globe are exploring this option to control their own broadcasting. Is such a thing feasible for A-league clubs?

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17 hours ago, CaptainJess said:

Production isn't cheap but it's also not astronomical. 

Fox do a lot of their own production, however there are a load of external production companies that do it and often Fox just steals the feed.

I would think bringing it in-house would be expensive initially, but for me it seems like the best way forward. But the fact is, just because you don't have Fox doesn't mean you can't do it. If the rumors are true and Optus is on the table, I'm assuming it's one of the first negotiation points to be discussed. 

Not sure about the studio stuff but everything else is outsourced.  NEP do all the video, sound and prepare the VAR and other signals - they are sent to a studio centre.  They own all the camera gear and the staff where the Foxtel (or whatever other channels they are working for) so it looks like Foxtel Outside Broadcasting but isn't.

It is a big task and the set up is huge - a mate directs for NEP and is sometimes of A League or other sports as the head honcho.  The trucks and gear a extremely high-Tech and massively expensive.  There are many logistical problems, depending on the various grounds, their set up, club and code requirements, along with Fox dictates.

An in-house set up would be absolutely massive, requiring several active trucks and staff teams each weekend.  A set begins around 9am and they finish after midnight.  Can't see that this would be financially viable for a limited season.  NEP don't have trucks sitting around doing nothing and certainly not for an off-season.  They are always busy - the only way to pay for them.  They are constantly upgrading equipment to keep up with potential levels of TV output, streaming and requirements for new ideas - sideline video etc.

I cannot see in-house levels of production occurring - we'd all be complaining about the quality.

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2 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Not sure about the studio stuff but everything else is outsourced.  NEP do all the video, sound and prepare the VAR and other signals - they are sent to a studio centre.  They own all the camera gear and the staff where the Foxtel (or whatever other channels they are working for) so it looks like Foxtel Outside Broadcasting but isn't.

It is a big task and the set up is huge - a mate directs for NEP and is sometimes of A League or other sports as the head honcho.  The trucks and gear a extremely high-Tech and massively expensive.  There are many logistical problems, depending on the various grounds, their set up, club and code requirements, along with Fox dictates.

An in-house set up would be absolutely massive, requiring several active trucks and staff teams each weekend.  A set begins around 9am and they finish after midnight.  Can't see that this would be financially viable for a limited season.  NEP don't have trucks sitting around doing nothing and certainly not for an off-season.  They are always busy - the only way to pay for them.  They are constantly upgrading equipment to keep up with potential levels of TV output, streaming and requirements for new ideas - sideline video etc.

I cannot see in-house levels of production occurring - we'd all be complaining about the quality.

So the ABC is getting second-hand feed.

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17 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

So the ABC is getting second-hand feed.

Yes Foxtel film it all and transmit the footage to the ABC

Same as when SBS and 10 had the rights

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Maybe makes no sense for in-house productions, but couldn’t the a-league just engage NEP or similar to work directly for them and cut out the middlemen?

Then they could engage a company just to show the game and provide the commentary and various weekly shows.

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31 minutes ago, billybob said:

Maybe makes no sense for in-house productions, but couldn’t the a-league just engage NEP or similar to work directly for them and cut out the middlemen?

Then they could engage a company just to show the game and provide the commentary and various weekly shows.

When I meant in-house production, this is what I meant :lol: Not the match feed but the other side of it! As many of you have highlighted, it’s a very hi-tech, specialised & expensive exercise. If Fox couldn’t find a way to do it themselves & make a profit, then I find it hard to believe any single sport or new player could find it more economical themselves.

It’s exactly what the EPL have for the international audience (what we see on Optus). They produce all the daily shows, pre/post game & all the other bits of media/interviews.

11 hours ago, hughsey said:

There’s reports that the Premier League are looking at bringing out their own Netflix style streaming platform for the competition and reducing their business with external outlets. So basically what Optus sport offer but removing the middle man it seems. 

As per above, they are almost already there, all they need now is to develop an app to deliver it. You wonder though, at what point will they make the leap? Or will they run Optus side by side with their own app, once they have enough viewers they can then drop the Optus contract.

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I think A-League fans need to accept that leaving Fox Sports is going to result in a reduction in production value.

The goal for the IAL is to embrace the challenge and don't do what Lowy & Gallop would have done, which is scrape and beg for Fox Sports and then have nothing planned for when Fox Sports pull out.

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