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Police, Security & Supporter Discussion Part 2


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Sorry in advance for a long post...

 

I think we had some power as a fanbase when the boycott happened. Since that moment, however, I'm not sure if all the agreed measures have been enacted. What did we do about that?

Sometimes a lesson in negotiations with the powerful is to consider; how do we enforce an agreement when our leverage (in that case the boycott) is no longer available?

In terms of the FFA, they could be smart and leverage their access to the media and make a statement in defense of their fans, pointing to the low per-head -capita of evictions when compared to other codes and the excessive costs born by fans of mandated heavy police presence (surely the ratio of cops to fans at A league matches outstrips the other codes). 

They could then outline a plan, and pressurise the relevant police ministers bypassing the cops entirely. 

The cops have too much power here. They tell event organizers how many cops will be needed (most of whom are paid extra shift/overtime rates.) Then we pay for it. The public order units cost more, the mobile prison costs more, the cavalry costs more etc. If they don't evict people and escalate stuff they have no statistical justification for their requirements. However there is no check and balance to make sure they aren't rorting the situation. At the moment they have the political cover of the sokkah hooligan narrative. This is an opportunity for FFA to push back a bit. But I doubt they have the will or capacity.

 

Edited by Redwog
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48 minutes ago, Redwog said:

 This is an opportunity for FFA to push back a bit. But I doubt they have the will or capacity.

The FFA are the most to blame for this (outside of the racist and overtime grabbing cops).

Even their standard response “it’s only a small percentage of fans” is essentially admitting there’s a problem, when they instead could be pointing out the stats that show football is not as bad as other sports.

As soon as they admit that even a small percentage of fans are a problem, they effectively give the green light to the cops to treat us all like criminals.

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1 hour ago, btron3000 said:

The FFA are the most to blame for this (outside of the racist and overtime grabbing cops).

Even their standard response “it’s only a small percentage of fans” is essentially admitting there’s a problem, when they instead could be pointing out the stats that show football is not as bad as other sports.

As soon as they admit that even a small percentage of fans are a problem, they effectively give the green light to the cops to treat us all like criminals.

Add to that the fact that Gallop starts every press conference with statements like ‘zero tolerance policy’ ‘stand by our banning process’ etc. On the negative from the outset. 

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10 minutes ago, GD07 said:

Add to that the fact that Gallop starts every press conference with statements like ‘zero tolerance policy’ ‘stand by our banning process’ etc. On the negative from the outset. 

Agree with both of you. Gallop is instrumental in this. His NRL and newscorp connections were always going to make it so. 

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14 hours ago, Redwog said:

I think we had some power as a fanbase when the boycott happened. Since that moment, however, I'm not sure if all the agreed measures have been enacted. What did we do about that?

Sometimes a lesson in negotiations with the powerful is to consider; how do we enforce an agreement when our leverage (in that case the boycott) is no longer available?

FFA thought they won checkmate after they stalled to prevent the ban appeal process coming in, along with all their other agreements. They stalled and stalled and finally got their "family friendly" atmosphere at Victory and WSW games after both clubs went in to try and kill off the active groups.

What good did it do? The A-League has lost 2600 people per game from the average regular season crowd season 2013/14 the year after WSW joined the league.

The TV ratings tanked so badly Fox is looking to ditch the league or at the very least pay a much lower amount for the rights.

How Gallop still has a job is beyond me.

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1 hour ago, btron3000 said:

Why, in all these instances we have on record of issues between security and cops, are the fans the ones that are expected to be polite?

It’s the narrative & ingrained culture that associates the football fan with hooligans, violence & other things they’ve witnessed in either green street hooligans or reports of hooligans the world over. The mentality that we are guilty until proven innocent & we are expected to maintain a healthy respect of officials whilst doing nothing to earn it.

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12 minutes ago, mack said:

FFA thought they won checkmate after they stalled to prevent the ban appeal process coming in, along with all their other agreements. They stalled and stalled and finally got their "family friendly" atmosphere at Victory and WSW games after both clubs went in to try and kill off the active groups.

What good did it do? The A-League has lost 2600 people per game from the average regular season crowd season 2013/14 the year after WSW joined the league.

The TV ratings tanked so badly Fox is looking to ditch the league or at the very least pay a much lower amount for the rights.

How Gallop still has a job is beyond me.

I don’t believe the our club killed active support. SOP, FFA and police killed active support, the club was unable to stop them doing it, although arguably they could have tried harder.

I’ll get flamed here but elements within our support don’t help either 

Edited by StringerBellend
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39 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

I don’t believe the our club killed active support. SOP, FFA and police killed active support, the club was unable to stop them doing it, although arguably they could have tried harder.

I’ll get flamed here but elements within our support don’t help either 

At their best they are an amazing element of the matchday experience, and the majority work hard to be just that. On occasions there are some who lose sight of that, and the FFA use any excuse they can to clamp down on something they don't control. If they always be their best, the FFA would have no comeback.

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1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

I don’t believe the our club killed active support. SOP, FFA and police killed active support, the club was unable to stop them doing it, although arguably they could have tried harder.

I’ll get flamed here but elements within our support don’t help either 

I think you missed the major driver of limiting active support and that was/is the coordinated effort by governments to control antisocial behaviour.  After agreeing in a COAG resolution that it was needed governments across Australia enacted or toughened legislation including legislation that covered attendance at stadiums.  Hirers and owners of stadiums have no choice but to abide by the legislation and security and police have to enforce it.  It means that some preferred active support activities are not and will not be permitted.

Having said that the manner in which the various authorities have dealt with active support is decidedly lacking in understanding.

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1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

I don’t believe the our club killed active support. SOP, FFA and police killed active support, the club was unable to stop them doing it, although arguably they could have tried harder.

I’ll get flamed here but elements within our support don’t help either 

Nantes FC: Supporters message (Banner) to the French FA last season game at home against Lille. Would be appropriate and not out of place in the A League, especially Wanderers.

" We bring the stands to life; You shut them".

" We support our Club; You exploit them".

"We create displays; you ban them".

Do you not have, simply put, a problem with football? 

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25 minutes ago, MistahCampoy said:

I really miss our big tifos!

Gallop thinks his the godfather of the FFA and no one can touch him

Gallop has one approach - punish an entire supporter base for the supposed misdeeds of one or two. Kind of a 1930s approach ...

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2 hours ago, marron said:

It's depressing how the AFL is able to turn their problems into a message of " we are family friendly".

Or “these are once off incidents that rarely occur on a regular basis”. Amazing what happens when you control the narrative.

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5 hours ago, marron said:

It's depressing how the AFL is able to turn their problems into a message of " we are family friendly".

They back themselves and the boss man doesn’t give a **** what the outsiders think. There’s been calls all season for the AFL to segregate fans and they’ve flat out said: no chance. If that was the FFA in the same position, they wouldn’t just segregate the fans - they’d probably just ban away fans from attending games altogether in an attempt to seek approval from the masses...

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-12/afl-denies-crack-down-on-crowd-behaviour/11198746?pfmredir=sm

TLDR - AFL fans complaining about football-like treatment of fans in the stands.

I actually don’t mind if people are ejected for abusing the officials (even if those comments seem a little soft), but barracking loudly? I guess the powers that be are extending the football treatment to other sports, not relaxing the unnecessarily tight standards at A-League games.

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Not even the pinnacle of bogan culture that is the AFL is spared from the wrath of the PC movement these days...

I don’t agree with what they are doing but is it weird to anyone else that it wasn’t the countless brawls in the opening rounds, but simple name calling that bought this action upon fans?

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8 minutes ago, mack said:

It's because of the Goodes documentary. The AFL have been shamed into action because of the exposure of their inaction that time.

Exactly.

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I was switching channels on Fox and I briefly had in on the AFL and heard them have a whinge about the security. So funny how the treatment we got from security and Hatomoto is suddenly out of proportion and menacing. Talking about how the security guards going up and down the aisles when all the fans want to do is watch the game. Well Well Well, welcome to our world. Funny how things do a 180. 

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On 14/06/2019 at 4:05 PM, hughsey said:

I think the introduction of the AFLW has also softened them up

How so?

The AFL invented female sport and introduced male international sport involving foreign teams, into Asia. The organization is absolutely ground breaking in the field of new endeavors. 

Just ask Eddie and Kochie. They'll tell you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Victoria Police sent suspension letters last week to about 400 guards working across the security industry over allegations that “false, forged and/or fraudulently obtained documentation” was used to obtain their security licences.

https://www.theage.com.au/melbourne-news/hundreds-of-security-guards-banned-over-alleged-accreditation-fraud-20190626-p521k8.html

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