Off Topic Thread 4

[wendybr]

6 minutes ago, mack said:

The question specifically about the poem was "explain how the poet conveys the delights of discovery".

No wonder they were pissed at having to deal with such a stupid question. Most of the articles are about "abuse" on private facebook pages that have nothing to do with the author. And much of what was directed on twitter seemed less "abuse" and more "explain this mango poem".

As for failing everyone. How ridiculous. Imagine failing a kid in the last exam after 12 years of formal education because they posted a meme on a facebook page about a mango poem. That won't **** their life up at all.

LOL- I've seen kids have to deal with worse in the HSC tbh.

I like the poem, but can certainly understand how kids wouldn't get much from it. And how they would struggle to address the question as it relates to discovery (their Area of Study)

At our school, students were also frustrated that (I think for the 2nd year in a row) their years of practising how to analyse visual material was not asked for, and instead, they had to deal with a text like that.

Of course, the notion of failing anyone is ridiculous. I just posted that one since it was the most detailed I found - and will spark conversation in what it had to say.

I don't think anything at all will result from it. 

[Edinburgh]

And it's not even a poem! Let alone discovery of anything.

[Smoggy]

3 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

And it's not even a poem! Let alone discovery of anything.

I would consider it one, but it is no Betjeman - who I had to study for GCSE English.

[wendybr]

2 hours ago, Edinburgh said:

And it's not even a poem! Let alone discovery of anything.

Of course it's a poem.

A free verse poem.

What is it, if not a poem? 

Hehehehe....I sense an English lesson on the horizon!  

[Smoggy]

2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Of course it's a poem.

A free verse poem.

What is it if not a poem? 

Hehehehe....I sense an English lesson on the horizon!  

Best opening lines to a poem ever, Betjeman's Slough -

Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!
It isn't fit for humans now, 

 Did that for my exam.

Edited October 17, 2017 by WSWBoro

[wendybr]

Well done Boro!

Top of the class for you!

After all those years!!

Mind you, I could still quote bits of poetry and lines from King Lear I had to study for the HSC......all those millennia ago!!  

It leaves an indelible mark....doesn't it?

[Smoggy]

Yayyyy gold star for me.....in your fooking face Edinburgh 

[wendybr]

I'm still waiting for him to tell me what the mango poem is ...if it isn't a poem. 

[Edinburgh]

46 minutes ago, wendybr said:

I'm still waiting for him to tell me what the mango poem is ...if it isn't a poem. 

Meaningless text.

[wendybr]

It doesn't capture a childish experience in your mind?

Can't resist...

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-poems.html

[Edinburgh]

17 minutes ago, wendybr said:

It doesn't capture a childish experience in your mind?

Can't resist...

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-free-verse-poems.html

Not at all - it's meaningless to me.

[wendybr]

53 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Meaningless text.

Actually  

You're a numbers man.

What would you know about poetry?

PS FWIW - I'm hopeless with numbers - so that makes us even! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only joking! 

About you and poetry....not about me and numbers! 

[wendybr]

57 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Meaningless text.

Actually - that's nonsense....what you said.

I could ask you 10 questions on what's happening in the poem, and you'd easily be able to answer them.

The poem tells of the  experiences of a group of 8 years olds. There are sights, sounds, and images of touch.

It's not meaningless at all.

[sonar]

I prefer my free verse poems set to music.........although they tend to call them songs....lol

[wendybr]

No problem about that!  

[Edinburgh]

My only memories of high school english are being asked what was the author thinking when he wrote whatever. How the hell would I know? And I couldn't ask him - he was dead (and I expect he still is). The only reason I passed the english exams was getting enough marks in the grammar questions? With one exception in year 5. The Shakespeare text was Julius Caesar and I topped the class in the mid year exam. Better teaching? I tried harder? Nope. The text book had notes at the bottom of each page explaining what was said/meant by the words. So I actually understood the damn thing.

I hope teaching of literature has improved for those of us less blessed with reading dead people's minds but I have serious doubts. More recently when my eldest son was at high school attempting the higher level of english I went to the teacher parent interviews. My son was frustrated that his best efforts and honest answers were apparently not good enough. I asked the teacher why, when he was asked for and gave his opinion on the meaning of something, he was marked wrong? Obviously the answer wasn't what was wanted but he was given no assistance at all to learn/understand what he was supposed to think. And the teacher didn't answer my question.

The good news is my son changed to a lower level of english and killed it. Which went a long way to getting the HSC points he needed for his chosen uni course.

The bad news is I have a continuing healthy disrespect for the "finer points" of literature.

[sonar]

The raising of children the rearing of young
Used to be simple but look what it's become
The choice of career the proper vocation
Out of your hands all for the needs of the nation
No inhibitions with the modern child
Wasted lessons or pleasure or pain
Easy to follow your natural instinct
Easy to follow, much too hard to learn
Useless expressions and sporting aggression
Don't waste my time, I can't wait for the end of the session
What opportunity, the modern child
Waste passion and wasted mind

Anyone guess the writer.....?

[Edinburgh]

Well, it wasn't me!

But I like it and it is a poem.

[sonar]

8 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Well it wasn't me!

Nor me...! lol

(I actually prefer to read books than poems. I  surprised myself when I did my final school exams by acing an essay on the book "Animal Farm. "}

Edited October 17, 2017 by sonar

[Edinburgh]

27 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Actually - that's nonsense....what you said.

I could ask you 10 questions on what's happening in the poem, and you'd easily be able to answer them.

The poem tells of the  experiences of a group of 8 years olds. There are sights, sounds, and images of touch.

It's not meaningless at all.

Well it was effectively meaningless to me. I had no idea what it was about. I'm at a loss how anyone could tell it's what you say it is.

[Smoggy]

1 minute ago, Edinburgh said:

Well it was effectively meaningless to me. I had no idea what it was about. I'm at a loss how anyone could tell it's what you say it is.

I think I hear the sound of Wendy hitting the bottle  and 

[wendybr]

7 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

My only memories of high school english are being asked what was the author thinking when he wrote whatever. How the hell would I know? And I couldn't ask him - he was dead (and I expect he still is). The only reason I passed the english exams was getting enough marks in the grammar questions? With one exception in year 5. The Shakespeare text was Julius Caesar and I topped the class in the mid year exam. Better teaching? I tried harder? Nope. The text book had notes at the bottom of each page explaining what was said/meant by the words. So I actually understood the damn thing.

I hope teaching of literature has improved for those of us less blessed with reading dead people's minds but I have serious doubts. More recently when my eldest son was at high school attempting the higher level of english I went to the teacher parent interviews. My son was frustrated that his best efforts and honest answers were apparently not good enough. I asked the teacher why, when he was asked for and gave his opinion on the meaning of something, he was marked wrong? Obviously the answer wasn't what was wanted but he was given no assistance at all to learn/understand what he was supposed to think. And the teacher didn't answer my question.

The good news is my son changed to a lower level of english and killed it. Which went a long way to getting the HSC points he needed for his chosen uni course.

The bad news is I have a continuing healthy disrespect for the "finer points" of literature.

Good post Ed. All perfectly understandable.

You'll encounter the talented and the not so good teacher along the way, I guess.

I believe the standard is improving.... from what I see of my colleagues, and the comparisons I could make over the years. 

I can easily live with myself in terms of making what I have to deliver to kids as meaningful as possible - and I think/hope that most get something from it (but please please don't ask Carns about that! )

As the only compulsory subject, there will always be a proportion of kids who will resent being made to study English.

And ultimately, it's each to his/her own.

[Edinburgh]

1 minute ago, wendybr said:

Good post Ed. All perfectly understandable.

You'll encounter the talented and the not so good teacher along the way, I guess.

I believe the standard is improving.... from what I see of my colleagues, and the comparisons I could make over the years. 

I can easily live with myself in terms of making what I have to deliver to kids as meaningful as possible - and I think/hope that most get something from it (but please please don't ask Carns about that! )

As the only compulsory subject, there will always be a proportion of kids who will resent being made to study English.

And ultimately, it's each to his/her own.

Neither me or my son had any resentment to studying english. I just though I wasn't good enough. I didn't realise till after school that the teaching needed to be different for someone like me. I didn't become angry about it until my son's experience.

[Smoggy]

I hated the grammar and had terrible trouble with spelling, so the important stuff that gets you somewhere lol. But I enjoyed the creative side  and could list a whole host of poets I recall studying and much else besides, but I was never marked well due to really poor grammar and appalling handwriting, ah well.

I think creativity wise I was one of the best there, but i couldn't follow the basic rules and that is what drove my teachers mad and resulted in my low marks. Which is fair enough I guess as grammar is at the base level and the foundation of it all, so yeah. 

[wendybr]

7 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Well it was effectively meaningless to me. I had no idea what it was about. I'm at a loss how anyone could tell it's what you say it is.

Pffffft!

Poetry is meant to be/is best read out loud.

Read it out loud.

Then you answer (to yourself...)

Who is involved with the persona (speaker) on an outing?

What do they see along the way?

Where do they end up?

What do they see there?

What do they do there?

Why would the persona be pleased at the end?

Why would the persona remember this occasion?

Yes...there's one weird line there..."Listen to the taste" Why?

Dunno- maybe to suggest all their senses are alive and merged??

To me it's clunky and maybe pretentious. The poet just looks like a kid.

But seriously there's a little story there. Compressed.

 The heart of poetry isn't the rhymes and the rhythms - it's the essence of something captured succinctly.

It's the compression of an idea or experience that differentiates poetry from other types of texts.

And free verse poetry does that better than rhymed poetry.

 

[sonar]

These days anything over 140 characters is an essay...!

[wendybr]

5 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Neither me or my son had any resentment to studying english. I just though I wasn't good enough. I didn't realise till after school that the teaching needed to be different for someone like me. I didn't become angry about it until my son's experience.

You know what - I actually typed that you were not given the confidence to offer your ideas/insights...or it wasn't nurtured in you....and that's a shame.

Then I deleted it,  as I could have been off the mark.

But yes....you developed the idea that you were't good enough - and that's terrible!

As a teacher, that's where I start everything...over and over - developing confidence.

Maybe that was why I didn't like Maths...I didn't ever feel good enough.

PLUS with a Maths brain- you probably liked the idea of ONE correct answer.

With English, yes, it IS possible to "not get it"....but you have the freedom to give your own ideas....and maybe that was stifled in you and your son.... by not -so-good- teachers.

[wendybr]

4 minutes ago, sonar said:

These days anything over 140 characters is an essay...!

Hahahaha....nah!

There are still essays! 

Just ask the 70,000 kids who did their English papers today and yesterday. 

[sonar]

16 minutes ago, wendybr said:

 

Yes...there's one weird line there..."Listen to the taste" Why?

Dunno- maybe to suggest all their senses are alive and merged??

 

Nah, It's not wierd.

Picture the sight and SOUND of kids eating mangoes...."some have never had one.......listen to the taste.....the squeeze of cheeks...dripping chins..." sums it up beautifully. My great nephews are 5 and this is them eating a mango for the first time.

 

[Edinburgh]

7 minutes ago, wendybr said:

You know what - I actually typed that you were not given the confidence to offer your ideas/insights...or it wasn't nurtured in you....and that's a shame.

Then I deleted it,  as I could have been off the mark.

But yes....you developed the idea that you were't good enough - and that's terrible!

As a teacher, that's where I start everything...over and over - developing confidence.

Maybe that was why I didn't like Maths...I didn't ever feel good enough.

PLUS with a Maths brain- you probably liked the idea of ONE correct answer.

With English, yes, it IS possible to "not get it"....but you have the freedom to give your own ideas....and maybe that was stifled in you and your son.... by not -so-good- teachers.

By not good enough I mean I just didn't comprehend. I didn't feel inadequate. No one ever spoke to me one on one with any suggestions on how to look at things a different way, or what or why I was supposed to see or find. Question asked, answer given, marked wrong, end of story. I can analyse things but to this day I have no idea how to analyse a poem. Questions like why did the author say this or that (errm, he said the dog is black because it was a black dog?), or what was being inferred leave me at a loss because I know what l see isn't what is wanted.

I'm calling it a night now. Maybe I'll try to answer your poem questions tomorrow. No use trying now, too much resentment!