WSW 18/19 & 19/20 Club Thread

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

9 hours ago, Carns said:

How do we pay for the increased squad sizes with clubs losing money hand over fist? How do we afford better quality players to raise the standard?

pay everyone less

[Carns]

9 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

pay everyone less

I'm sure the PFA will be on board

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

1 minute ago, Carns said:

I'm sure the PFA will be on board

pay the PFA more then. 

[StringerBellend]

16 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

pay everyone less

ScoMo is that you? 

[StringerBellend]

2 hours ago, FCB said:

I hear ya.

Pumping up the squad with HAL grade players is not the answer. Popa is able to squeeze the last drop of performance out of mediocre players with a focus on training intensity, fitness, and discipline. But S5 everyone (including the man himself) realized that this approach only gets you this far with players like Borda, Bruno, Melling, Dimas, Jumpei, Lustica, Bulut, Clisby.

Short term: increase the number of imports. The "good" Aussies that are hanging around in the HAL are seen as quality players and are paid reasonably well because of that, and because there's only few of them. But Brilliante, O'Neill, Davidson etc - they aren't THAT good. You can get a better football import professional for the same money. It would improve the quality of the squad immediately, and local players would have to work harder to make the match day squad.

Mid to long term: increase the squad size with more competent youth players, and that means a focus on youth development. MB and his coaching group lifted the capabilities of our youth players significantly as the season progressed, and we are going to see more of that. If one young wanderer per season makes the jump to Europe, it will be motivation for the other ambitious youngsters.

 

 

Bit harsh on Dimas he was decent footballer, excellent in his first season with us hard to know what happened next season 

[Prydzopolis]

2 hours ago, FCB said:

Mid to long term: increase the squad size with more competent youth players, and that means a focus on youth development

The reason for the leaps & bounds improvement in our youth was the amount of games they played. If we want to win, those youngsters won’t get the opportunity for the amount of game time. Can’t afford them to make mistakes & drop points if we want to be serious about being the best next year, they won’t play. 

[Zelinsky]

2 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

The reason for the leaps & bounds improvement in our youth was the amount of games they played. If we want to win, those youngsters won’t get the opportunity for the amount of game time. Can’t afford them to make mistakes & drop points if we want to be serious about being the best next year, they won’t play. 

We will remember the costly mistakes and misses of Janjetovic, Llorente, Hamill, Riera, Nizic, not those of Baccus, Tate, Tass, Suman. It was the senior players who stuffed up, not the young ones.

You don't win titles if you are playing with too many youngsters. Yet when we had many young guys on the pitch in the home games against Glory and VIC, they did alright. When we played the Jets with the senior squad we didn't look that crash hot.

The kids had to improve first before they were picked, and that improvement comes during the week. When you train with (or against) good players you have to lift your game. The coaching group cranked up the volume in training, and especially the young guys benefited from it, while senior players couldn't keep up. Most of them are not at the club any longer.

[LeeMarvin]

21 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

ScoMo is that you? 

Yes. Also, foreign players will have to play a couple of seasons in Nauru or PNG before being eligible for the A-League.  If they get suspended they will be deported to country of origin. 

However there will be exemptions for white South Africans and French W-League players.

[Prydzopolis]

44 minutes ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

pay everyone less

 

34 minutes ago, Carns said:

I'm sure the PFA will be on board

The PFA is a powerful organization in Australian football. On one hand the players deserved to be paid a fair wage, especially for squad players who need to be full time. The last bargaining agreement saw a significant increase in wages & a large portion of the TV deal.

On the other hand the the large increase in wages is going to the same players & the squad size remains the same. The minimum salary inflates the value these players & the overall cap. All this whilst the FFA have had to make significant cuts to programs & services in order to make a deal between the states & clubs on the best way to share the broadcast revenues. With the value of the A-League tv deal severely over inflated, the next deal looking at being significantly lower & the league struggling which can’t be good for the clubs. Will be interesting to see where it all goes from here.

It’s a fine balance, between what’s fair/right & the commercial reality of the situation.

[Prydzopolis]

16 minutes ago, FCB said:

You don't win titles if you are playing with too many youngsters. Yet when we had many young guys on the pitch in the home games against Glory and VIC, they did alright. When we played the Jets with the senior squad we didn't look that crash hot.

A fine balance, if top 6 is the goal then we have more leeway. If we want to be challenging for the title then okay isn’t good enough. So many times it was only small margins (one error or two) between coming 3-6 to first or coming 8 or finishing in the 6.

[Stokz]

In an open market, with no salary cap, majority of A-league players would prob earn less.

There is no way most of them would earn what they earning in the AL as compared to Europe.

That's why so many are coming back to Aus.

For example in Europe they'll earn 150K for a long ass season, whereas it Australia they might command 300K and play 6mths.

[Erebus]

No transfer fees is a massive amount of income some clubs (and NPL clubs) can earn. Teams like CCM can focus on development with their COE and gain income from selling off their players to other HAL teams.

 

But 10 teams is too small. We need 2 tiers of 16 minimum so there are more places and opportunities to play and sell/buy from. Most of the recycled HAL players will end up in A2 (as you see overseas) where the A1 start buying better players to remain in A1 and fight for the prize money of winning and the broadcast money of A1 (and ACL).

Increasing salary cap isnt the sole answer. It just means the PFA will argue for a new CBA and everyone that is currently a mediocre HAL player just gets paid more.

 

But because there is no real competition or consequence, it means the same recycled players "with A-League experience" and lack of real intensity in training.

[Hughesy]

4 hours ago, Carns said:

I'm sure the PFA will be on board

In all seriousness, I think the PFA need to take a lot of the blame. It’s their work that makes this league so comfortable and protective which is great for the individual but not for the league. The minute the going gets tough they pipe up and we start having issues. For me they are too involved - they’re doing everything they can to make professional football a stable profession in which a person can find longevity and security. Professional sport isn’t and shouldn’t be like that if you want to maximise performance and results.

[Bellby]

7 hours ago, FCB said:

I hear ya.

Pumping up the squad with HAL grade players is not the answer. Popa is able to squeeze the last drop of performance out of mediocre players with a focus on training intensity, fitness, and discipline. But S5 everyone (including the man himself) realized that this approach only gets you this far with players like Borda, Bruno, Melling, Dimas, Jumpei, Lustica, Bulut, Clisby.

Short term: increase the number of imports. The "good" Aussies that are hanging around in the HAL are seen as quality players and are paid reasonably well because of that, and because there's only few of them. But Brilliante, O'Neill, Davidson etc - they aren't THAT good. You can get a better football import professional for the same money. It would improve the quality of the squad immediately, and local players would have to work harder to make the match day squad.

Mid to long term: increase the squad size with more competent youth players, and that means a focus on youth development. MB and his coaching group lifted the capabilities of our youth players significantly as the season progressed, and we are going to see more of that. If one young wanderer per season makes the jump to Europe, it will be motivation for the other ambitious youngsters.

 

 

For every good foreigner you get 4 or 5 that are bang average & could easily be replaced by an Australian A League player. Brilliante, O'Neill, Davidson are easily superior to 80% of foreigners that come over in their position regardless of what they're getting paid. 

Maybe I'm being too proud, but I just don't agree that upping the foreigners will make a positive difference to the league, I think it'll only hamper the development of Australian players coming through & we'll be swamped by 32 year old Spainish plodders that have played for 14 clubs.  

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

if Brillante and O'Niell played for any other club they'd be Kearyn Baccus and Anthony Caceras. 

[wswnick]

[mack]

 

[WSWJACK]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 6:13 PM, wswnick said:

We'll see if he has the right mentality or still on holiday :-)

[Davo]

Same mentality as the season just gone it seems.

 

[Zelinsky]

On 23/05/2019 at 1:16 PM, Bellby said:

For every good foreigner you get 4 or 5 that are bang average & could easily be replaced by an Australian A League player. Brilliante, O'Neill, Davidson are easily superior to 80% of foreigners that come over in their position regardless of what they're getting paid. 

Maybe I'm being too proud, but I just don't agree that upping the foreigners will make a positive difference to the league, I think it'll only hamper the development of Australian players coming through & we'll be swamped by 32 year old Spainish plodders that have played for 14 clubs.  

Australian players are only developing if there actually is a focus on youth development. Unless I am mistaken, the only clubs who really have their eyes on the ball in that regard are City and WSW. All others, including PFA and FFA, are overseeing mediocrity.

Spend 500k on an Aussie and an import, and you end up with a player of different quality. Because much of the cap money has to be spent on the few above average Aussies, not much is left for imports, and you are more likely to end up with plodders. Llorente was probably on half the money that Davidson is one.

No more Mulveys coaching in the HAL. Phase out HAL no hopers. Exclude the imports from the cap and allow the owners to spend as much on them as they please. Up the limit from five to seven imports for a couple of years, have youth players compete with them for the spots - and watch them develop.

[Erebus]

One of the things I don't agree on that many pundits are saying, is increasing the number of Visa players. We should be following the AFC and other leagues with their 3+1 - that is, if AFC have no intentions of changing that.

Makes no sense to have 7 Visas, qualify for the ACL and having to cull (up to) over half of them for a stronger competition.  

[Taurus]

Depends if FFA what to qualify for Olympics & World Cups or they want the ALeague to appeal to a wider audience such as theatre goers & eurosnobs. 

The developmental side of my brain says 3 visa players + 1 Asian player is the right way to go, particularly if you're hoping to maximise the exposure our youth will get to top tier football. 

The other side is hearing that the more Llorentes, Piovacarris & Sabas we can bring to the club the better & the crowds will surely flock to Wanderland V2 to watch these superior footballing talents strutt their stuff, whilst the likes of Baccus, Tass & Grozos watch on from the stands

 

 

[Prydzopolis]

I’m all for that Taurus but can understand in a salary cap situation why you’d want to sign more visa players. The best Australian players will come at a premium as there are very few quality Australian players (think goal keepers), as a result you end up paying overs in order attract them to your club. Yes, increasing the visa players will result in more Adeleke’s & Piñatares but cost wise you’d be better able to have a better balanced team.

If you want a better focus on youth, much better these younger players are getting 20-30 games a season in div 2 rather the pressure of getting a few games in a top team or games in an underperforming side (like ours last year)

[mack]

The foreign cap is pretty irrelevant compared to the lack of incentive to develop youth in a system with no transfer fees & no second division.

[Taurus]

Salary cap or not we have a distinct advantage over most clubs, it that our academy has a continuous stream of talented lads coming through the pipeline.

We should be arguing for a reduction in the number of visa players, not just on parochial lines, but to maximise the value of our talent when an independent league becomes a reality.

 

 

[Erebus]

mack and taurus points go hand in hand. Our academy won't bear the fruit we hope financially if we can't transfer within clubs in Aus. If they come good at WSW, then go to another club for free then get sold overseas, we see no $$.

We need transfers between clubs.

[billybob]

I like the idea of reducing it to 3+1, but keep all 4 outside the cap. This way clubs can bring in players that they need. They can be worth 500k or 15million. Adjust the cap accordingly.

I would also like the 4 marquees to be able to be used for Australians, although if you do, you cannot replace that Australian player inside the cap with another foreigner. This way clubs can bring back Aussies that are still in their prime and not only at the end of their career.

i would like to see transfers in Australia, including paying NPL clubs if that is where the player comes from. I guess it would be hard to start though. Maybe start it with a cap for the first 3 or so years and then cap transfers paid to a % of transfers received in the past year to two.

[Zelinsky]

 

On 23/05/2019 at 2:25 PM, hughsey said:

In all seriousness, I think the PFA need to take a lot of the blame. It’s their work that makes this league so comfortable and protective which is great for the individual but not for the league. The minute the going gets tough they pipe up and we start having issues. For me they are too involved - they’re doing everything they can to make professional football a stable profession in which a person can find longevity and security. Professional sport isn’t and shouldn’t be like that if you want to maximise performance and results.

This takes us back to an MB interview from August 2018.

"I’ve seen Australian footballers go to Europe before they are ready far too often, only to leave after just one or two seasons. As coach of the Wanderers, it’s something I want to change. I want to prepare young players for that next step because over there it’s not enough to just be good technically or tactically. You have to be mentally ready. You need to be strong and fit. You must be courageous going into challenges. These are areas where I think many young Australians need to improve.

There are so many good footballers in Europe that, if you’re not constantly at a high level, one of them will take your place. And you need to be ready for that challenge before you arrive. Young footballers should have to fight for their place in a team. In Australia, it’s not tough enough. I’ve looked across the A-League and seen some 23-year-olds who have played for five clubs … in a 10-team competition?! That is not normal. It means there is no real motivation for young players because in the back of their minds they know they can fail many times and still have another chance."

 

On 27/05/2019 at 11:48 AM, Erebus said:

One of the things I don't agree on that many pundits are saying, is increasing the number of Visa players. We should be following the AFC and other leagues with their 3+1 - that is, if AFC have no intentions of changing that.

Makes no sense to have 7 Visas, qualify for the ACL and having to cull (up to) over half of them for a stronger competition.  

 

It does, as it will force Aussie players to compete with nominally stronger/better football players for their spots every day. It would address the issues MB raised, and improve the quality of the league in the process.  Those who quality for the ACL would have no problem resting half their imports while the other half does midweek shifts somewhere in Asia.

13 players have moved on from WSW, with another three to follow, and none of them is seen as a loss. Same with Roar who tossed out 15 so far. No doubt many of the local players will re-emerge at other HAL clubs, and so recycling of not good enough players continuous. It is a cancerous tumor that needs to be cut out. More imports are the short term fix, and a strong focus on youth development the mid to long term solution.

 

[Sithslayer1991]

I have no issue with A-league increasing visa spots. But the rule with the Champions league by AFC is annoying because it makes us less competitive then we already are at Champions league level

[Robvad10]

does anyone know if anthony crea is potentially joing WSW?