International Current Affairs (#BidenIn)

[Smoggy]

6 hours ago, FCB said:

In August 1990 the world watched as Iraq invaded Kuwait. I watched Peter Arnott reporting from Baghdad in January 1991. The guns haven’t been silent in that part of the world ever since. 

And now Afghanistan has fallen. The executions will start soon, and the rapes. It will be like Srebrenica on steroids. Heartbreaking stuff. It’s a pity that Rumsfeld died two months ago. At least Bush, Cheney and Howard get to witness the end of the mess they created. 

Yes, Iraq invaded a sovereign country, which is a rare thing post WWII. Booted out quickly of course and they chased the best of the Iraq army back up the highway, and then stopped, and negotiated. Some would say they should have kept on going to Baghdad then, some would be of the other extreme perhaps and think that Kuwait should have been left to its fait. Either way Bush said with the liberation of Kuwait the job was done, but it never is though is it. They would be back 10 years later based on the context of WMD, which we now know didn’t exist, well not to threaten our luxury lifestyles, but Iraq did gas it’s own people, the marsh arabs and the Kurds of course.

The guns have never been silent in the Middle East, and before that the swords.The British Mandate for Palestine ending, creation of Israel, Suez crisis and then right back to Saladin lol You could write a book on unrest in Middle East for every century.

All in an argument about who has the best imaginary friend or how someone interprets a book compared to the other person….

****, I’m off to watch Life of Brian.

”Are you the Judean people’s front?”

”**** off, we’re the People’s front of Judea!”

“What happened to the Popular front of Judea?”

”He’s sat over there” (man on his own)

”Splitter!”

 

That is the Middle East right there.

 

[Smoggy]

8 hours ago, sonar said:

You mean like this other old geezer....?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-afghanistan-war-withdrawal/

Mr. Trump said in a statement he believes the U.S. should leave Afghanistan earlier than when Mr. Biden has called for, and took credit for laying the groundwork for American troops to leave the country before September 11, the 20th anniversary of the terrorist attacks that launched the U.S. into its longest war.

"I made early withdraw possible by already pulling much of our billions of dollars and equipment out and, more importantly, reducing our military presence to less than 2,000 troops from the 16,000 level that was there," he said.

Trump made the plan, Biden executed it.

[Smoggy]

Heartbreaking scenes of people clinging to the outside of planes as they take off, and ultimately fall to their death.

What a almighty **** up.

[theseeker]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

Trump made the plan, Biden executed it.

On his first day in office Biden signed 15 executive orders reversing Trump policies. His arse is in the chair in the oval office for the last seven months or so. This is Biden's massive stuff up. The guy is in way over his head , everybody knows that.

[Smoggy]

33 minutes ago, theseeker said:

On his first day in office Biden signed 15 executive orders reversing Trump policies. His arse is in the chair in the oval office for the last seven months or so. This is Biden's massive stuff up. The guy is in way over his head , everybody knows that.

Reporters at the White House say that Kamala Harris was there but deliberately decided not to be photoed today as part of this situation. And Biden is apparently happy to take the heat alone, as per many of the photos of him sitting alone today.

A Vice President with an very careful image to maintain across the next 4 years, a President who ****ed up.

[Carns]

Afghanistan has been a **** up since the start. There is blood on the hands of four presidents and both political parties.

It was always an unwinnable war, against an enemy that would never surrender.

Trump was the one who instigated this withdrawal, he was the one who started negotiations with the Taliban (without the input of the Afghan government). He withdrew the majority of troops last year.

 

[sonar]

2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Trump made the plan, Biden executed it.

Blame should be equally apportioned imho.

 

[DinoPresinger]

12 hours ago, theseeker said:

Smokin' Joe Biden has stuffed this up badly and it's on him. Clueless on how to deal with the real world this old geezer.

I'm sorry, what the hell was he supposed to do? Occupy Afghanistan forever?

 

This would have happened under Trump too (if he had ever actually had the balls to pull out) because the reason that the Taliban already controls the whole country is that there is no Afghan army. If the preceding 4 administrations had succeeded in building an Afghan state and army then this wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, because of their failures this situation was inevitable.

 

Biden is the least culpable of the last 4 administrations. Bush is the person who created this whole mess.

[WSWJACK]

As my wife and I were watching this morning's news over breakfast, on the tv screen a Toyota land cruiser with many bearded men with RPGs and Kalashnikovs, i looked up at my wife who is generally not too political said with a tear in her eye "God help the women of that nation", I found that moment more poignant than any comment forthcoming from the reporter on screen, when i stop to reflect indeed "God help those women".

[Carns]

8 minutes ago, WSWJACK said:

As my wife and I were watching this morning's news over breakfast, on the tv screen a Toyota land cruiser with many bearded men with RPGs and Kalashnikovs, i looked up at my wife who is generally not too political said with a tear in her eye "God help the women of that nation", I found that moment more poignant than any comment forthcoming from the reporter on screen, when i stop to reflect indeed "God help those women".

Apparently the Taliban asked religious/community leaders for a list of all women aged between 15-45 that were either single or widowed so that they could be married off to Taliban fighters before they even took control of the entire country.

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, DinoPresinger said:

I'm sorry, what the hell was he supposed to do? Occupy Afghanistan forever?

 

This would have happened under Trump too (if he had ever actually had the balls to pull out) because the reason that the Taliban already controls the whole country is that there is no Afghan army. If the preceding 4 administrations had succeeded in building an Afghan state and army then this wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, because of their failures this situation was inevitable.

 

Biden is the least culpable of the last 4 administrations. Bush is the person who created this whole mess.

I may be wrong here. But with the help of America an Afghan gov backed army was developed that was supposed to put up a fight. I think west has been paying the salaries for these soldiers that melted away like a chocolate Santa in front of a fireplace.

I think America lost confidence in the army mind and move out much heavy weaponry so as not to fall in to Taliban hands. But apparently they should have been able to defend Kabul and the surrounding district.

The Afghan government has ****ed up also. But then the Taliban would have kept on coming.

Hard situation.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Smoggy

[Smoggy]

54 minutes ago, Carns said:

Apparently the Taliban asked religious/community leaders for a list of all women aged between 15-45 that were either single or widowed so that they could be married off to Taliban fighters before they even took control of the entire country.

Grim.

[Edinburgh]

1 hour ago, WSWJACK said:

As my wife and I were watching this morning's news over breakfast, on the tv screen a Toyota land cruiser with many bearded men with RPGs and Kalashnikovs, i looked up at my wife who is generally not too political said with a tear in her eye "God help the women of that nation", I found that moment more poignant than any comment forthcoming from the reporter on screen, when i stop to reflect indeed "God help those women".

I agree with the sentiment, but god won't help anyone.

The perpetrators supposedly believe in god, albeit they use a different name.

[Carns]

34 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

I may be wrong here. But with the help of America an Afghan gov backed army was developed that was supposed to put up a fight. I think west has been paying the salaries for these soldiers that melted away like a chocolate Santa in front of a fireplace.

I think America lost confidence in the army mind and move out much heavy weaponry so as not to fall in to Taliban hands. But apparently they should have been able to defend Kabul and the surrounding district.

The Afghan government has ****ed up also. But then the Taliban would have kept on coming.

Hard situation.

The Afghan army was trained and funded by the US/UN etc. and you are correct that the international community lost all faith in their effectiveness. The US leaving in the dead of night with all their equipment proved this. It seems as if Kabul was taken without a fight, which shows what was left of the Afghan army knew they were never going to win that battle.

[WSWJACK]

The young girls born and raised in the last 18 years have had a chance of living with an amount of liberty not enjoyed previously in that country and their normal lives are going to change drastically, no more everyday things they took for granted.

A few years back i read the book " I am Malala" i know it's Pakistan bordering Afghanistan but under a form of Taliban rule, it's an excellent read which I would encourage anyone to pick up, a brave girl who just wanted a basic right, an education.

[marron]

yeah I cant imagine what would be worse, knowing only a degree of freedom and having it taken away or remembering what it was like and therefore knowing what's coming. This time with reprisals for collaboration/ retrospective non approved activities.

 

 

[Carns]

 

[Carns]

8 hours ago, Carns said:

It seems as if Kabul was taken without a fight, which shows what was left of the Afghan army knew they were never going to win that battle.

Apparently the majority of the Afghan army hadn't been paid in months due to corruption in the Government. No wonder there was no resistance.

Just imagine what the citizens will be subjected to over the foreseeable future.

[Carns]

 

[wendybr]

 

[Cynth]

22 hours ago, Carns said:

 

Ugh, he enabled them. 

[Cynth]

8 hours ago, wendybr said:

 

The new government authorities of Afghanistan….

[wendybr]

1 hour ago, Cynth said:

The new government authorities of Afghanistan….

Just footsoldiers I imagine. If I recall correctly what was going on 20 years ago, these young men may well have been removed from their families as little kids, to be indoctrinated, and turned into killers.

Hard to imagine what sorts of lives they may have led.

Hopefully, Afghanistan has changed enough for it not to be possible for the horrors of their previous rule to return entirely.

Hopefully.

[Cynth]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Just footsoldiers I imagine. If I recall correctly what was going on 20 years ago, these young men may well have been removed from their families as little kids, to be indoctrinated, and turned into killers.

Hard to imagine what sorts of lives they may have led.

Hopefully, Afghanistan has changed enough for it not to be possible for the horrors of their previous rule to return entirely.

Hopefully.

I like your optimism Wendy.  I guess I’m not as optimistic. Perhaps this might be interesting to you. 
 

 

[wendybr]

^^^ I'll watch tomorrow.

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, at all.

But I've heard from 3 commentators who should have some insight, that there are different factors at play than there were in the late 90s/2000, so we can only hope.

[theseeker]

6 hours ago, wendybr said:

^^^ I'll watch tomorrow.

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic, at all.

But I've heard from 3 commentators who should have some insight, that there are different factors at play than there were in the late 90s/2000, so we can only hope.

No chance.

Taliban regard sharia law as divine and immutable...….here we go , roll back to the the 7th century for Afghanistan.

 

[Smoggy]

Reports that the Afghan president fled with a wealth estimated to be at $190 million US Dollars. And in his words was 'forced to flee'. I wonder how much of that fortune was siphoned from the Afghan army.

Comes across as a corrupt coward to me.

Captain goes down with the ship and with dignity. He was the first in the life boat  and cut the boat free with him the only one in it leaving others behind. That's a good way to look at his actions in my opinion.

He should have been at the international airport to face his people and be the last out.

Coward.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Smoggy

[theseeker]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

Reports that the Afghan president fled with a wealth estimated to be at $190 million US Dollars. And in his words was 'forced to flee'. I wonder how much of that fortune was siphoned from the Afghan army.

Comes across as a corrupt coward to me.

Captain goes down with the ship and with dignity. He was the first in the life boat  and cut the boat free with him the only one in it leaving others behind. That's a good way to look at his actions in my opinion.

He should have been at the international airport to face his people and be the last out.

Coward.

There's a difference between being brave and stupid. Follow me people he says , turns around and there's no-one there !

Would have been captured and tortured to death and his grisly body displayed as some sort of triumphant war propaganda trophy. As for  the $190 millions bucks , well probably better to get it out of the joint so the Taliban don't get it.

Maybe he was a coward , maybe not. Easy when you are sitting safe behind a keyboard though.

 

[Unlimited]

Keep in mind the last time the Taliban captured Kabul, the previous leader of the country was hung from a lamp post after being tortured 

Fleeing was a good idea 

[Smoggy]

24 minutes ago, Unlimited said:

Keep in mind the last time the Taliban captured Kabul, the previous leader of the country was hung from a lamp post after being tortured 

Fleeing was a good idea 

See the BBC article on  this. The USA and the Afghan gov knew the Taliban were coming, it is just it happened in a few weeks rather than the 6 months they were prob expecting.

The president was supposed to remain to carry on negotiations that have already been happening regarding an inclusive government.....

Talk..freak out...run with your money.

Although the Taliban are back, there are differences to 20 years ago. But I am very sceptical that the Taliban have changed somehow.

At some point they are going to have to try talking to them again...

Edited August 19, 2021 by Smoggy