International Current Affairs (#BidenIn)

[wendybr]

4 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Irritated 

It’s the car door argument above 

im off to find a car door 

You must be easily irritated. 

[Smoggy]

Yeah these kids all out on the streets is great isn't it, always good to see them getting in to important issues of the day and every generation seems to have their moment, since the 1950's at least.

I have seen in to the future and these kids will have soul destroying jobs (those that haven't been automated), massive mortgages hanging around their necks, Greta Thunburg will be in rehab and they will be just as ground down and cynical about life as the rest of us older folk are today, ok maybe not quite a cynical as me. Nothing will have changed and their protests will have come to nothing. There will be nostalgic looking back documentaries about these protests with the kids as adults answering questions like 'why has nothing changed 30 / 40 years on'. Just like the 60's protesters who were after a better future look back in disappointment now. 

Carry on kids 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Erimus

[Edinburgh]

Watching ABC news. There's a story about the large and growing aged population and the need for more aged care etc and the cost. Apparently it's a result of the former one child poicy! How the hell did the restricted birth rate result in more old people geting older? They were already alive when the poicy was introduced. The only difference would be less younger people! Idiots!

[wendybr]

You didn't say China...but I assume that's what you're referring to?

Would it relate to having only one child to look after the elderly parents? 

Maybe the first one child generation isn't that old tho??

[Cynth]

I don’t admire many people, but this woman is one...

 

[Unlimited]

13 hours ago, Taurus said:

Unless we take in information from both sides of the discussion, our thought process lacks balance.

https://www.sott.net/article/420049-NASA-admits-climate-change-occurs-because-of-changes-in-Earths-solar-orbit-not-because-of-SUVs-and-fossil-fuels 

 

"Quote of the Day"

The establishment irritates you - they pull your beard, they flick your face - to make you fight, because once they've got you violent they know how to handle you. The only thing they don't know how to handle is non-violence and humour.

- John Lennon

Yeah... that news source is dodgy as

If you click into it and follow it until it actually gets to the NASA pages, you'll see that this orbit eccentricity (ovalness) is a process that takes thousands of years

Even the link where they explain it has the graph:

What's the horizontal axis? Literally thousands of years. Our timescale here is in the hundreds of years.

Like yes, the Milankovitch cycles explain things like the ice ages but not the current state of global warming/climate change which would be like 4 pixels long in that chart

[JackDoff]

Lennon talking about non violence? Didn’t he smack around his wives? Peaceful guy....

[wendybr]

19 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Yeah... that news source is dodgy as

If you click into it and follow it until it actually gets to the NASA pages, you'll see that this orbit eccentricity (ovalness) is a process that takes thousands of years

Even the link where they explain it has the graph:

What's the horizontal axis? Literally thousands of years. Our timescale here is in the hundreds of years.

Like yes, the Milankovitch cycles explain things like the ice ages but not the current state of global warming/climate change which would be like 4 pixels long in that chart

Well done Unlimited! 

Honestly, it isn't as though people actually WANT Climate Change to be true....

It's that initially people thought, "Well, we trust scientists..... there is probably something to this."

And now....it seems that from all over the world, predictions made over the past almost 50 years, seem to be happening, and are being documented. Also, people are experiencing exactly what was predicted.

 

[Edinburgh]

11 hours ago, wendybr said:

You didn't say China...but I assume that's what you're referring to?

Would it relate to having only one child to look after the elderly parents? 

Maybe the first one child generation isn't that old tho??

Yes, China. Story didn't mention the children doing the looking after.

[StringerBellend]

Here are @wendybr 

From the great billy bragg

I had a frustrating exchange with a guy named Eric Weinstein on social media this week. He’s a mathematician and managing director of Thiel Capital, an investment firm owned by Peter Thiel, co- founder of PayPal. Weinstein is also a leading light in the Intellectual Dark Web, a group of prominent individuals who use social media platforms to rail against what they see as the encroachment on free speech by accountability movements such as #MeToo, Black Lives Matter and the struggle for LGBTQI rights.

Their name is based on their assertion that they are excluded from the mainstream media by a culture that has been taken over by political correctness. Given that their members -Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin among them - regularly draw millions of viewers to their YouTube channels and fill theatres across the globe, suggests that they are not as marginalised as they would have us believe. 

When their movement was launched with a huge feature - complete with a soft focus photo shoot - in the New York Times in 2018, some activists remarked that they wished they were as ‘marginalised’ as the IDW. It’s a loose grouping, from people who claim to be of the left as well as the obvious right wingers. High on their list of complaints is the rise of safe space rules on university campuses. Several IDW members are academics who have found their views no longer get the respect they feel is their due. Students setting the terms of debate are a threat to liberty they believe, arguing that no subjects should be off limits. 

In a YouTube clip entitled ‘What Is The Intellectual Dark Web’, member Dave Rubin declared “we have committed ourselves to fighting for our ideas honestly and passionately, but, more importantly than that, we’ve committed to the open exchange of ideas and not silencing our opponents, no matter how many times they refuse to extend that same courtesy to us”.

The IDW believe that they are fighting authoritarianism - Rubin says as much in the clip - but when asked to explain their thinking, it becomes clear they are fighting something else. Rubin says he believes the old division of right vs left no longer applies, that the political divide now is between those who believe in the freedom of the individual and those who believe that government has a role in shaping society (yeah, I know). When he complains about authoritarianism, Rubin is actually targeting regulation. He fails to grasp that authoritarianism arises when there are so few regulations that the powerful are able to act with impunity.

My new polemic, The Three Dimensions of Freedom, argues that, to counter the current wave of impunity, stretching from the White House to Downing Street, we need to ensure that equality and accountability are given equal prominence to free speech in law, the economy and our social discourse. While researching it, I came across the IDW and in particular Eric Weinstein. I found an interview he gave to the Rebel Wisdom YouTube channel, entitled ‘Inside the Intellectual Dark Web’ in which he set out the thinking behind the group. 

Most of it was a standard rant against political correctness. However I was struck by this declaration: “It’s very important to me that not only do (the IDW) not spend time debating people who are not serious in their intel­lectualism, but that we realise that it is important to the diversity of mature and important ideas that we not spend undue effort engaging ideas that are functioning very differently from regular conversation.”

This seemed to me to be an odd defence of free speech, not only running contrary to Dave Rubin’s definition of the IDW ethos, but also to the principle attributed to Voltaire that, while I disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it. I used the Weinstein quote in the book as an example of the new breed of free speech warriors who demand that they get to express their views, but bridle when challenged. It’s not free speech these people want, it’s free rein - the right to say whatever they want without any comeback. 

On Wednesday, I did a live phone interview with the Majority Report podcast, during which the host, Sam Seder, asked me about the Weinstein quote. I expressed the views in the above paragraph and thought no more of it. A few hours later, I became aware that Eric Weinstein had taken to Twitter in response, challenging me to debate the issue with him on his podcast, the Portal, and suggesting we might play a song together. I’m always up for debate as there’s a chance to hear a different perspective and learn something about my own views, so I accepted, posting a thread that set out my position on his IDW comment. 

Then everything went quiet for 36 hours. I wasn’t sure if Eric was busy or maybe reading my book. When he reappeared in my timeline, it was to demand that he be allowed to come up on stage during one of my gigs to debate free speech with me. I’m pretty sure I know how my audience would respond to me halting a gig so the director of an investment fund could come onstage and debate whether my depiction of him was a straw man argument. I feel they’d rather hear me play ‘There is Power in a Union’. More importantly, there is a strain among the new breed of free speech warriors who see debate as a gladiatorial confrontation, to be conducted in front of a baying crowd who’ve come to see them ‘own the libs’. I’m not really interested in that kind of macho posturing. If that’s what Eric wants, he should buy some trunks and go join the WWF.

I’m happy to debate, I told him, but not interrupt a gig in order to do so. He flounced off when I explained this, leaving bemused tweeters in his wake. One complained bitterly that Justin Bieber wouldn’t let him up onstage to debate whether it is indeed too late to say sorry. Another lamented that, having offered to open for Metallica with a power point presentation, he had yet to hear from the band. 

That was the end of our exchange. He wouldn’t debate me unless it was on his terms.

The irony here is that the safe space movement is dedicated to controlling the terms of the debate. Although reactionary provocateurs claim safe spaces are a plot to stifle free speech, their actual purpose is to ensure that everyone’s voice is heard and that those taking part in the debate show due respect to their opponents. Equality is a key component, as is accountability. The purpose of the safe space is to control the tone of the debate, not the subject matter. 

Eric Weinstein has every right to lay down his terms for debating, as do the proponents of safe spaces. What he can’t do is complain that students set conditions for debates held on their campuses, when he makes debate conditional himself.

For most of history, old white men have decided who gets to write the rules and who gets to break them. Their growing desperation to maintain that power is a sure sign that they feel their privileges are under threat by a new generation determined to hold them to account.

[marron]

12 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Yeah... that news source is dodgy as

If you click into it and follow it until it actually gets to the NASA pages, you'll see that this orbit eccentricity (ovalness) is a process that takes thousands of years

Even the link where they explain it has the graph:

What's the horizontal axis? Literally thousands of years. Our timescale here is in the hundreds of years. decades

Like yes, the Milankovitch cycles explain things like the ice ages but not the current state of global warming/climate change which would be like 4 pixels long in that chart

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by marron

[Davo]

Also is the unit for climate precession degrees Celsius, because that's talking about a range of plus or minus 0.6 degrees when the current projections are five times that.

[wendybr]

There are a few things that confuse me about Billy Bragg's statement you quote...and others that I disagree with - but I'm glad you've come back to keep the conversation going!

And here are a few observations...

Quote

Their name is based on their assertion that they are excluded from the mainstream media by a culture that has been taken over by political correctness. Given that their members -Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin among them - regularly draw millions of viewers to their YouTube channels and fill theatres across the globe, suggests that they are not as marginalised as they would have us believe. 

Yes - they have huge followings - and deservedly so, in my opinion.

Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin, from what I've seen of them, are decent, intelligent people, who often attract interesting guests. They have often quite fascinating interviews, from my observations.

 But they do NOT get mainstream media coverage - they are a threat to mainstream media that way.

 

10 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

The irony here is that the safe space movement is dedicated to controlling the terms of the debate. Although reactionary provocateurs claim safe spaces are a plot to stifle free speech, their actual purpose is to ensure that everyone’s voice is heard and that those taking part in the debate show due respect to their opponents. Equality is a key component, as is accountability. The purpose of the safe space is to control the tone of the debate, not the subject matter.  he purpose of the safe space is to control the tone of the debate, not the subject matter. 

I didn't get the references to safe spaces. I think he means to criticise the people who call out the safe spaces? And the purpose of the "safe space" is not to control the tone of the debate - it's to afford people (usually minorities) a place to hang out where they will feel……….safe.

10 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Most of it was a standard rant against political correctness. However I was struck by this declaration: “It’s very important to me that not only do (the IDW) not spend time debating people who are not serious in their intel­lectualism, but that we realise that it is important to the diversity of mature and important ideas that we not spend undue effort engaging ideas that are functioning very differently from regular conversation.”

 

Even ordinary, not very politically aware people have had enough of PC. It's gone too far.

I figure that the part I bolded might be a reference to their (Rogan's and Rubin's) long form interview style - broadcast as an interview, which is broadcast in it's entirety, and can take 2-3 hours - like a conversation. There is no editing, the way a mainstream media interview might be edited down - a half hour interview edited to a few minutes, in a way the  interviewee has no control over.

So I think Rubin is saying that they want to debate people at an intellectual level (that's great!) and they want to engage in a leisurely, conversational discussion?? I do not think he's trying to silence debate.

These guys HAVE BEEN silenced - certain sectors of the media plainly do that - and THAT'S what they're rebelling against.

10 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Eric Weinstein has every right to lay down his terms for debating, as do the proponents of safe spaces. What he can’t do is complain that students set conditions for debates held on their campuses, when he makes debate conditional himself. .

OK I have no idea who this Eric Weinstein is - but he sounds like an idiot. 

I'm off to watch DR's YouTube clip!

The Dark Web sounds very scary - and I'd totally steer clear of it....even it I knew where to look for it.  

The IDW....has made me curious.

Thanks for putting up something to get my brain ticking over!  

I want more!! 

[wendybr]

10 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Weinstein is also a leading light in the Intellectual Dark Web, a group of prominent individuals who use social media platforms to rail against what they see as the encroachment on free speech by accountability movements such as #MeToo, Black Lives Matter and the struggle for LGBTQI rights.

PS  That's a nonsense too tbh.

Dave Rubin is gay - and has a husband, I'm pretty sure.

As nonsensical as labelling Milo Y as a racist and a homophobe (along with the other things he's called - some of which ARE deserved)  - when he has a black male partner.

 

"...a group of prominent individuals who rail against the struggle for LGBTQI rights"?  LOL!! Yeah right.

Here are some images of Dave Rubin...with his husband.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=dave+rubin+partner&qpvt=dave+Rubin+partner&FORM=IGRE

 

Your mate, Billy, should do a bit of research! 

[mack]

"I'm x so you can't criticise me" is the exact type of "anti-free speech identity politics" those people supposedly hate.

Just because someone is in a group doesn't mean they might show more loyalty to other groups that are more important to them. Just look at the "Log Cabin Republicans" (along with your mates Dave & Milo) who are LGBT people that care more about cutting taxes, gutting public services & defending racism than defending less privileged members of their own LGBT movement. They unquestionably support & vote for a drastically anti-LGBT group (Republicans) filled with people like Mike Pence.

[StringerBellend]

"Even ordinary, not very politically aware people have had enough of PC. It's gone too far. "

Has it really? the whole Miranda Devine, Jeremy Clarkson PC gone mad narrative will tell you that it has but, most examples of "PC" gone mad are either incorrect i.e. Muslims banning Christmas, Cadburys not having easter.. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cadbury-banned-easter/

or confuse Health and Safety with Political Correctness ..  

How has it gone to far exactly? 

Miranda Devine writes for a major news paper, we have a Government that keeps little kids in detention, Pauline Hanson is in the senate.....

People are still being discriminated against for the colour of their skin or sexual preference? 

I really don't see how it has gone too far. PC is just an attempt to not be an arsehole to people. 

Joe Rogan doesn't get media coverage? Jordan Peterson? really?

" But they do NOT get mainstream media coverage - they are a threat to mainstream media that way. "

I'm sorry that's total rubbish every one of these right wing loons gets plenty of media coverage, Fox News is full of it, Peterson was on Q and A the other month, they have their own TV shows. They are a threat to the mainstream media way, the mainstream media love them it generates clicks and traffic.. 

 

 

[StringerBellend]

29 minutes ago, wendybr said:

PS  That's a nonsense too tbh.

Dave Rubin is gay - and has a husband, I'm pretty sure.

As nonsensical as labelling Milo Y as a racist and a homophobe (along with the other things he's called - some of which ARE deserved)  - when he has a black male partner.

They must be alright then

 

 

besides he is referring the group not the individual 

Edited September 23, 2019 by StringerBellend

[wendybr]

1 minute ago, mack said:

"I'm x so you can't criticise me" is the exact type of "anti-free speech identity politics" those people supposedly hate.

Just because someone is in a group doesn't mean they might show more loyalty to other groups that are more important to them. Just look at the "Log Cabin Republicans" (along with your mates Dave & Milo) who are LGBT people that care more about cutting taxes, gutting public services & defending racism than defending less privileged members of their own LGBT movement. They unquestionably support & vote for a drastically anti-LGBT group (Republicans) filled with people like Mike Pence.

I lolled at "your mates Dave and Milo".

Milo is a smart guy - but is very misguided on quite a few scores. And I don't like what I've heard of him....

I did try to listen to a bit of one of the speaking tours things he did here. I turned it off quite early into the presentation, when he started in on indigenous Australians - because it was pathetic, distasteful and ignorant. 

He's a showman, and a provocateur...and a has-been from what was published a few weeks ago here. No sympathy from me. 

 

[StringerBellend]

2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

I lolled at "your mates Dave and Milo".

Milo is a smart guy - but is very misguided on quite a few scores. And I don't like what I've heard of him....

I did try to listen to a bit of one of the speaking tours things he did here. I turned it off quite early into the presentation, when he started in on indigenous Australians - because it was pathetic, distasteful and ignorant. 

He's a showman, and a provocateur...and a has-been from what was published a few weeks ago here. No sympathy from me. 

 

A smart guy that is misguided 

I give up

now where is that car door?

Edited September 23, 2019 by StringerBellend

[wendybr]

6 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

 

I'm sorry that's total rubbish every one of these right wing loons gets plenty of media coverage, Fox News is full of it, Peterson was on Q and A the other month, they have their own TV shows. They are a threat to the mainstream media way, the mainstream media love them it generates clicks and traffic.. 

 

How many Joe Rogan podcasts and Dave Rubin Reports have you actually watched Stringer?

[StringerBellend]

.

Edited September 23, 2019 by StringerBellend

[StringerBellend]

5 minutes ago, wendybr said:

How many Joe Rogan podcasts and Dave Rubin Reports have you actually watched Stringer?

Which one do you recommend shall I start with Lauren Southern appearance or go straight to the Tommy Robinson one, which brand of racism is the funniest?

[wendybr]

How many??

[wendybr]

11 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

A smart guy that is misguided 

I give up

now where is that car door?

Smart people can't be misguided...on the wrong track?

[wendybr]

23 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

"Even ordinary, not very politically aware people have had enough of PC. It's gone too far. "

Has it really? the whole Miranda Devine, Jeremy Clarkson PC gone mad narrative will tell you that it has but, most examples of "PC" gone mad are either incorrect i.e. Muslims banning Christmas, Cadburys not having easter.. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cadbury-banned-easter/

or confuse Health and Safety with Political Correctness ..  

How has it gone to far exactly? 

Miranda Devine writes for a major news paper, we have a Government that keeps little kids in detention, Pauline Hanson is in the senate.....

People are still being discriminated against for the colour of their skin or sexual preference? 

I really don't see how it has gone too far. PC is just an attempt to not be an arsehole to people. 

Joe Rogan doesn't get media coverage? Jordan Peterson? really?

" But they do NOT get mainstream media coverage - they are a threat to mainstream media that way. "

I'm sorry that's total rubbish every one of these right wing loons gets plenty of media coverage, Fox News is full of it, Peterson was on Q and A the other month, they have their own TV shows. They are a threat to the mainstream media way, the mainstream media love them it generates clicks and traffic.. 

 

 

After you've recovered from the damage you've done to yourself with that car door - this is quite good.

A mainstream media Lefty...meets one of your "right wing loons" and they get on like a house on fire.

You only have to watch the first half - they address your questions - and it's worth thinking about....what they say about PC, and "safe space" culture.

 

[StringerBellend]

I’ll give it a miss

It honestly isn’t good for me, I genuinely find it depressing 

Edited September 23, 2019 by StringerBellend

[wendybr]

OK my friend... thanks for giving me a little intellectual challenge with the start of tonight's debate. 

[mack]

Bill Maher isn't a lefty any more. He's centre-right Corporate Democrat. Trump getting elected broke his brain.

[wendybr]

5 minutes ago, mack said:

Bill Maher isn't a lefty any more. He's centre-right Corporate Democrat. Trump getting elected broke his brain.

He should've listened to more Dave Rubin and Joe Rogan, and would have seen it coming! 

[StringerBellend]

As they always say go out on a song