Climate Change & Alternative Energy

[Midfielder]

TWAS in a coffee shop in Eastwood on the weekend & got into a heated discussion about Renewable energy systems climate change in general.

What made me so godsmacked was how seemingly smart people have turned science and financial costings into a political and ignore the evidence before them.

Anywho put up your views on climate change & renewable's 

Let me give you a small example of the conversation, 

Middy : Solar cost less to produce than coal is F....g obvious.

Others: BS total and absolute BS, coal is much cheaper to run you are F....g up yourself.

Middy: OK OK I bet you a cheese cake slice I can prove it.

THUS THE GREAT CHEESE CAKE DEBATE STARTED

Others : You go first.

Middy: OK OK OK to run a coal plant you need coal.

To get coal you need to do the following

Pay someone to find a mine

Pay and engineer firm to design the mine

Get plant and equipment to the site to build the mine

Build the mine

Pay people to work in the mine

Put equipment in the mine to get the coal out

When you get the coal out you need to put it in a pile

Build trains to carry the coal to the plant

Build and maintain railway lines

Take the coal from the pile to the train

Take the train to either the power plant or a port

Unload the coal and put it in a new pile at the ship yard

get equipment to load into a ship

sail the ship across the wotld unload the ship into a new pile at the new country,

From that pile into a train

Then take to to the power plant

At the power plant unload the coal into a new pile

Then take the coal from this pile to the furnace

Maintain the furnace.

NOW FOR SOLAR COST

Pay someone every few months to clean a glass panel

 

How can I argued coal be cheaper... they still argued .

 

 

 

 

 

[Wobblies]

16 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

Others: BS total and absolute BS, coal is much cheaper to run you are F....g up yourself.

That sounds like the Minister for Energy Angus Taylor you were talking to.

[wendybr]

29 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

TWAS in a coffee shop in Eastwood on the weekend & got into a heated discussion about Renewable energy systems climate change in general.

What made me so godsmacked was how seemingly smart people have turned science and financial costings into a political and ignore the evidence before them.

Anywho put up your views on climate change & renewable's 

Let me give you a small example of the conversation, 

Middy : Solar cost less to produce than coal is F....g obvious.

Others: BS total and absolute BS, coal is much cheaper to run you are F....g up yourself.

Middy: OK OK I bet you a cheese cake slice I can prove it.

THUS THE GREAT CHEESE CAKE DEBATE STARTED

Others : You go first.

Middy: OK OK OK to run a coal plant you need coal.

To get coal you need to do the following

Pay someone to find a mine

Pay and engineer firm to design the mine

Get plant and equipment to the site to build the mine

Build the mine

Pay people to work in the mine

Put equipment in the mine to get the coal out

When you get the coal out you need to put it in a pile

Build trains to carry the coal to the plant

Build and maintain railway lines

Take the coal from the pile to the train

Take the train to either the power plant or a port

Unload the coal and put it in a new pile at the ship yard

get equipment to load into a ship

sail the ship across the wotld unload the ship into a new pile at the new country,

From that pile into a train

Then take to to the power plant

At the power plant unload the coal into a new pile

Then take the coal from this pile to the furnace

Maintain the furnace.

NOW FOR SOLAR COST

Pay someone every few months to clean a glass panel

 

How can I argued coal be cheaper... they still argued .

 

 

 

 

 

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

dam i'm a big fan of renewable energy, sun

[Carns]

To me, renewables was always a no brainer. Not only is it cleaner, it will eventually be the cheap alternative and it is sustainable.

Once again, politicians and the lobbyists who wine and dine them have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

The worst part is that Australia could've been a world leader in developing new technology (having the perfect climate to test many of the methods), could've created new industries and sold the tech to the rest of the world. Now we're playing catch up with everyone else.

The fact the environment minister came out today and completely dismissed a report stating we had to end coal by 2050 shows you where their bread is buttered.

[Midfielder]

7 minutes ago, Carns said:

To me, renewables was always a no brainer. Not only is it cleaner, it will eventually be the cheap alternative and it is sustainable.

Once again, politicians and the lobbyists who wine and dine them have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

The worst part is that Australia could've been a world leader in developing new technology (having the perfect climate to test many of the methods), could've created new industries and sold the tech to the rest of the world. Now we're playing catch up with everyone else.

The fact the environment minister came out today and completely dismissed a report stating we had to end coal by 2050 shows you where their bread is buttered.

Its now cheaper look at my coal example above.

Batteries are falling in price by the date and solar is a technology, predictions are within 10 years panels will be between by a factor between of 1.5 to 2.5 more powerful. 

This is worth watching its roughly 12 months old.... and its from a hard right investment bank on Wall Street.

...

[Midfielder]

From the Economist another right publication..... We are so f.....g stupid as all the smart money is going to renewable's 

 

 

 

[hawks2767]

How about these Middy, no more ugly panels on your roof

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/solarroof

 

 

[spectacular291]

You people obviously don't read the news mkkay https://www.betootaadvocate.com/entertainment/environment-minister-who-used-to-work-in-mining-sector-bit-skeptical-of-91-different-scientists/

 

Coal = love

Renewable Energy = bad mmkayy

[wendybr]

34 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

From the Economist another right publication..... We are so f.....g stupid as all the smart money is going to renewable's 

 

 

 

How good is that floating wind farm!!

[Posthoc]

IPCC Report released yesterday, brace yourself for more off the chart ignorance from people who's family trees don't fork explaining how all the world climate scientist are in on a con to score some grant money 

[Midfielder]

1 hour ago, hawks2767 said:

How about these Middy, no more ugly panels on your roof

https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/solarroof

 

 

Yer saw those when they first announced them... Musk is a genius and has almost single handled kick the electric car into main stream and reports I have read say by 2030 or not long after most car companies are heading to electric cars... essentially you won't be able to buy a new petrol engine car..

Yet News find a way two to three times a week to attack him ...

I despair at times how our media just give so little attention to whats happening across the world with things like electric cars and renewable's.

 

 

 

 

[Midfielder]

My fav online channel and BTW the biggest and tis has more views than most American TV companies... equally applies to Australia.

 

 

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

48 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

Yer saw those when they first announced them... Musk is a genius and has almost single handled kick the electric car into main stream and reports I have read say by 2030 or not long after most car companies are heading to electric cars... essentially you won't be able to buy a new petrol engine car..

Yet News find a way two to three times a week to attack him ...

I despair at times how our media just give so little attention to whats happening across the world with things like electric cars and renewable's.

 

 

 

 

Musk is not a genius. He employs geniuses. Anyone could do what he's done if they had the same access to the blood money he has inherited. 

[Midfielder]

1 hour ago, theguyyouwishyouwere said:

Musk is not a genius. He employs geniuses. Anyone could do what he's done if they had the same access to the blood money he has inherited. 

Mate you are totally wrong .... he inherited almost nothing... he work with SpaceX is huge...

In the future he will be talked about as one of the great people of his age... 

I have no idea how you arrived at your conclusion... especially about he inherited money and he only employs geniuses ...

BTW have you ever heard him talk he has a **** reputation in Australia but in most of the world his intellect is respected for how smart he is. 

[Midfielder]

Just on Musk.

This is a talk he gave to the governors of the the states in the US... listen to the introduction especially the first minute and still see if you think he is not a genius.

Its makes absolutely no sense to attack a person trying to save the plant and who has arguably done more than anyone else or has been the most successful.

As I said not many people command the respect he has in most of the world for his intelligence. Remember these are very powerful people, I can add things in the middle east if you like when their leaders came to hear him speak.

 

[Burgerman]

If every building in straya had solar panels there would be no need for coal and the barons who controls political parties. 

Lol Musk may spread environmental issues but he is a profiteering man building his own wealth. 

[Legionista]

🌝

[Paul01]

Before solar panels were introduced into NSW, we were supposed to get a new coal fired power generator in 2020 which was stated in 2010. It is now estimated to be 2050 with a million households with solar panels on their roofs.

Since then, we have power generators have their capacity reduced with the biggest generation happening at 10pm every night when the off peak heating starts for hot water systems.

The coal industry has both parties by their short & curled and that's why they dropped the rebate for solar feed in tariffs.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Paul01
Added info

[luisenrique]

9 hours ago, Carns said:

To me, renewables was always a no brainer. Not only is it cleaner, it will eventually be the cheap alternative and it is sustainable.

Once again, politicians and the lobbyists who wine and dine them have vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

The worst part is that Australia could've been a world leader in developing new technology (having the perfect climate to test many of the methods), could've created new industries and sold the tech to the rest of the world. Now we're playing catch up with everyone else.

The fact the environment minister came out today and completely dismissed a report stating we had to end coal by 2050 shows you where their bread is buttered.

Which, by his own admission, he hadn't read.

Considering we have a PM who literally bought a lump of coal into parliament, it's not a surprise.

[wendybr]

13 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

Before solar panels were introduced into NSW, we were supposed to get a new coal fired power generator in 2020 which was stated in 2010. It is now estimated to be 2050 with a million households with solar panels on their roofs.

Since then, we have power generators have their capacity reduced with the biggest generation happening at 10pm every night when the off peak heating starts for hot water systems.

The coal industry has both parties by their short & curled and that's why they dropped the rebate for solar feed in tariffs.

And that has had a huge impact, on people like me - who bought into the solar uptake in...I guess around 2009 -10.

Cost $11,000 (but a friend the year before had paid $24,000 for pretty much the same system). It was wonderful while the rebates were in place. We basically fed in more to the grid than we used - and virtually paid nothing for power.

With the rebates gone, we have had recent power bills of $800!!

It's a lot to get used to....and really, people just seem to have accepted it.

The only way to do it these days is to get the battery storage. It really isn't worth it (financially) without that.

[Paul01]

7 hours ago, wendybr said:

And that has had a huge impact, on people like me - who bought into the solar uptake in...I guess around 2009 -10.

Cost $11,000 (but a friend the year before had paid $24,000 for pretty much the same system). It was wonderful while the rebates were in place. We basically fed in more to the grid than we used - and virtually paid nothing for power.

With the rebates gone, we have had recent power bills of $800!!

It's a lot to get used to....and really, people just seem to have accepted it.

The only way to do it these days is to get the battery storage. It really isn't worth it (financially) without that.

You can also see the impact of NSW Treasury on electricity prices. They got their political masters (tail wagging the dog) to argue AGAINST THE RECOMMENDED 20% REDUCTION IN POWER prices last year RECOMMENDED by the Federal Energy Regulator in Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

The ironic twist was that Sydney Trains contract with Origin Energy expired this year and Sydney Trains had their electricity prices rise by 40% in the new contract. 

If theoretically, I became Premier sometime in the next 6 months (never going to happen), I would sack the entire senior management of the NSW Treasury immediately and bring in people who would work for the NSW People instead of themselves.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Rant over.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Paul01
Correction

[hawks2767]

I'm a huge fan of nuclear power, if we could get some reactors happening that'd be awesome.

We don't have to worry about tsunami's or earthquakes that cause tsunami's here - we supply most of the world's uranium so how about we just keep some for ourselves.

 

 

[sonar]

16 minutes ago, hawks2767 said:

I'm a huge fan of nuclear power, if we could get some reactors happening that'd be awesome.

We don't have to worry about tsunami's or earthquakes that cause tsunami's here - we supply most of the world's uranium so how about we just keep some for ourselves.

 

 

The down side is the cost for the safe keeping of the radioactive byproducts....hundreds or even thousands of years to decay to a safe level for and billions in storage and security costs.......economically not viable when compared to other renewables.

http://www.greenworldinvestor.com/2011/04/13/what-is-nuclear-waste-types-of-nuclear-waste-highlowuranium-tailingsnormspent-fuel-rods-and-generation/

[Paul01]

19 minutes ago, sonar said:

The down side is the cost for the safe keeping of the radioactive byproducts....hundreds or even thousands of years to decay to a safe level for and billions in storage and security costs.......economically not viable when compared to other renewables.

http://www.greenworldinvestor.com/2011/04/13/what-is-nuclear-waste-types-of-nuclear-waste-highlowuranium-tailingsnormspent-fuel-rods-and-generation/

I'd only recommend nuclear if it was thorium. 

No meltdowns, 70 year half life and Australia has 20% of the world's known thorium ores.

And the generation has to be reasonably local meaning multiple facilities with multiple jobs replicate across the country. So something the various treasuries would hate.

[sonar]

5 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

I'd only recommend nuclear if it was thorium. 

No meltdowns, 70 year half life and Australia has 20% of the world's known thorium ores.

And the generation has to be reasonably local meaning multiple facilities with multiple jobs replicate across the country. So something the various treasuries would hate.

I don't think we need it at all............

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nuclear-energy-is-still-a-stupid-idea-for-australia-20170316-guzb68.html

Then again, the amount of viable uranium on the planet to fuel the world's nuclear reactors is currently estimated to be exhausted in 80 years, assuming that demand isn't increased by building more than the current 440 reactors around the world. So there's that.

Also you have the cost of decommissioning.......

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nuclear-provision-explaining-the-cost-of-cleaning-up-britains-nuclear-legacy/nuclear-provision-explaining-the-cost-of-cleaning-up-britains-nuclear-legacy

 

 

[hawks2767]

I literally stopped reading that article after the part about offshore detention policy came up, completely irrelevant except it shows where the author is at.

The loony left have been allowed to dictate our policy on nuclear power for decades now.

Let's get it happening.

[GunnerWanderer]

Geothermal is allegedly the Mac daddy I watched some doco about it once 

 

[mack]

Queensland had a unicameral Liberal Govt with 78 seats to 9 at the same time as the Federal Government was held by the Liberals. They had 3 years to plan and start building Nuclear power if they felt like it. The Liberal Party have held NSW since 2011. Victoria was Liberal from 2010 to 2014. WA 2013 to 2017. Tasmania from 2014. There's been a Federal Lib/Nat govt since 2013.

Surely at some point, in one of these states held by Liberals, during a timeframe where the Federal Govt is also a Liberal Govt, if Nuclear power was a viable solution one of these states would have built it.

[sonar]

20 minutes ago, hawks2767 said:

I literally stopped reading that article after the part about offshore detention policy came up, completely irrelevant except it shows where the author is at.

The loony left have been allowed to dictate our policy on nuclear power for decades now.

Let's get it happening.

Nuclear will never happen in Aus. Absolute vote loser on so many levels...not so sure about the loony left bit though...lol...it's more of the economic rationalist type of debate, Why spend up to $14b and then another $33bn to store the waste.....economic stupidity.on a grand scale.

Edited October 10, 2018 by sonar