Midfielder Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, theseeker said: So the article states that Australia is responsible for 1.3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. 1.3% so the other 98.7% is outside Scott Morrison's control but he 100% gets the blame by you and your other 3 or 4 acolytes on this forum. Just goes to show what a bunch wankers you are who just hate Morrison because he won the last election and use this bushfire tragedy as a hook to vent your frustration. 1.3%. He also opposed changes to new targets and measurement systems the world wanted and sided with USA, Brazil & Saudi Arabia.... He totally fails to understand the commercial money that would come from renewable's .... the 1.3% is rubbish as China , India , Europe, Japan in fact most of the world is investing in new forms of energy.... as I said with China & India in a race to be the best ... Its not about left V right.... thats what gets me so offside.... people who defend or attack based on a political party.... its about maths, science ... FFS we have demonstrations outside our embassy's ... The last election was lost on economic polices by a poorly run ALP.... The Libs will come to rue the day they attached their wagon to the coal & oil industries... it simply needs a smart leader in the ALP... I hope one day you join the rest of the world and come to believe in maths, science, rather than radio talk back jocks, along with Fox and Sky after dark... EmMac, StringerBellend and Wobblies 3 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 THIS LOOKS TO BE AN AMAZING MOVIE opening in April..... watch the trailer... Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, theseeker said: So the article states that Australia is responsible for 1.3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. 1.3% so the other 98.7% is outside Scott Morrison's control but he 100% gets the blame by you and your other 3 or 4 acolytes on this forum. Just goes to show what a bunch wankers you are who just hate Morrison because he won the last election and use this bushfire tragedy as a hook to vent your frustration. 1.3%. Take Morrison out of it for a moment lets just deal with should we act our Emissions per person are amongst the highest in the world as present we are no position to ask anyone else to slow their emissions - If Australia is going to lead in any way on Carbon Reduction and climate change (which given the effect it is having and is likely to have here) we should, then we need to be acting. We can’t meaningfully be lecturing India, China and others to do something if we aren’t willing to do it ourself - By acting now the technology we develop will be our new export industry to those countries as they transition too, solar etc rather than we keep digging coal out of the ground as demand drops and prices fall, so economically it makes sense in the longer term - Apart from our high emissions per person, we export coal around the world which is burnt and creates more emissions our impact is high, added the we buy loads of stuff from China which during production there was a bunch of carbon produced - we are a first world nation we have the capacity and duty to lead the way - it’s eventually going to happen, and I’d rather be at the front than the back when it does Besides, I didn’t think you believed in climate change? If climate change isn’t real then why would Australia act? MartinTyler, marron, EmMac and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Not totally a CC vid.... its an AD actually made by Bernie Sanders supporters .... its powerful and he is a well know as CC champion.... anywho in the opening parts of this ad they use our fires and animals .... I through how far and how the world is watching and judging us... even if you only watch the first say 40 seconds watch this.. wendybr and Wobblies 2 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, StringerBellend said: Take Morrison out of it for a moment lets just deal with should we act our Emissions per person are amongst the highest in the world as present we are no position to ask anyone else to slow their emissions - If Australia is going to lead in any way on Carbon Reduction and climate change (which given the effect it is having and is likely to have here) we should, then we need to be acting. We can’t meaningfully be lecturing India, China and others to do something if we aren’t willing to do it ourself - By acting now the technology we develop will be our new export industry to those countries as they transition too, solar etc rather than we keep digging coal out of the ground as demand drops and prices fall, so economically it makes sense in the longer term - Apart from our high emissions per person, we export coal around the world which is burnt and creates more emissions our impact is high, added the we buy loads of stuff from China which during production there was a bunch of carbon produced - we are a first world nation we have the capacity and duty to lead the way - it’s eventually going to happen, and I’d rather be at the front than the back when it does Besides, I didn’t think you believed in climate change? If climate change isn’t real then why would Australia act? yep spot on... especially take out left and right its about facts and maths and science. sonar, Wobblies, EmMac and 1 other 4 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Midfielder said: He also opposed changes to new targets and measurement systems the world wanted and sided with USA, Brazil & Saudi Arabia.... He totally fails to understand the commercial money that would come from renewable's .... the 1.3% is rubbish as China , India , Europe, Japan in fact most of the world is investing in new forms of energy.... as I said with China & India in a race to be the best ... Its not about left V right.... thats what gets me so offside.... people who defend or attack based on a political party.... its about maths, science ... FFS we have demonstrations outside our embassy's ... The last election was lost on economic polices by a poorly run ALP.... The Libs will come to rue the day they attached their wagon to the coal & oil industries... it simply needs a smart leader in the ALP... I hope one day you join the rest of the world and come to believe in maths, science, rather than radio talk back jocks, along with Fox and Sky after dark... Exactly it’s sad that climate change has become a left v right thing particularly in Australia it shouldn’t be, CC is real, and we need to deal with it. But in Australia we are still arguing if it is or not, and then the above pathetic arguement, we are so small we shouldn’t bother doing anything Left and right may have different ways to deal with it economically and that I’m fine with, but at the moment we have a Lib Nats that have toppled their own leader over this. The idea of a price on carbon with a market, you would think would be the Libs policy being the “free market” supporters instead they have “direct action” of giving money to polluters to not pollute (which actually feels very central government) wendybr, sonar and MartinTyler 3 Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Midfielder said: yep spot on... especially take out left and right its about facts and maths and science. Sadly tho, the Right doesn't think like this...or so far hasn't. Link to comment
sonar Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Morrison is part of deniers...........he can't be left out of it. We had a price on carbon....we had a policy that was working. We now have a govt who are basing in part their emission reduction predictions on what that carbon policy did. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/fake-number-labor-says-morrison-is-fudging-emissions-figures-20200113-p53r3v.html StringerBellend, Wobblies and EmMac 3 Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, theseeker said: So the article states that Australia is responsible for 1.3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. 1.3% so the other 98.7% is outside Scott Morrison's control but he 100% gets the blame by you and your other 3 or 4 acolytes on this forum. Just goes to show what a bunch wankers you are who just hate Morrison because he won the last election and use this bushfire tragedy as a hook to vent your frustration. Acolytes? Well that's a new one. Lol. If you say so. I didn't hate Morrison. I was frustrated at the election loss.... sure, but could see where the ALP had frightened away people. I had no idea of the damage that election result could have brought. Morrison had seemed sort of benign... compared Abbott, and I had been massively relieved that Dutton didn't claw his way to the top when he ousted Turnbull. That had seemed the best outcome. I have NOT said I blame Morrison for climate change. That would be utterly absurd. I DO blame him, and anyone who may have supported him, in refusing to even meet the fire chiefs, and for sitting on his hands for 4 MONTHS, while the fires ravaged the country, and the states efforts were obviously inadequate. Starting 9 months ago, he made an atrocious blunder. 3-4 months ago, he compounded it by not offering support, and grinning his way through expressing his reluctance to offer support...."It's not a Commonealth issue" <grins and shrugs> When he finally decided he had to act, in response to howls of criticism here and internationally, he backed that up with a self promoting bullshit advertisement, simultaneously fund raising for the Liberal party. How anyone who loves this country, whether left or right leaning, can not be disgusted and outraged by his performance, is beyond me. Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 37 minutes ago, wendybr said: Sadly tho, the Right doesn't think like this...or so far hasn't. Actually only partly correct.... and thats the issue with making CC about left and right... I hope this does not come across the wrong way.... but most of the people who deny CC are uneducated followers .... they are also very loud and very aggressive ... they hang on the words of Alan Jones , Andrew Bolt .... and the corruption of our political system by the fossil industry is huge as is their advertising dollars ... Many of the CC Deniers live in traditional labour areas .... Its beyond obvious the Libs are caught by CC deniers ... they have them by the balls... The ALP hopefully will introduce CC polices .... but to win government is the issue... Despite being more right than left I am a swinging voter and lost my first election at the last election as I voted for the ALP and on CC alone.... but seats lost to the Libs especially in Queensalnd but also the lack of pick up in Victoria reflected a poorly run campaign ... Its no longer an issue of education, the more evidence you give most CC Deniers the more they say is all BS... somehow between talk back, Sky after dark, News major papers we have created a large group of people who no matter what you say and do simply refuse to accept the evidence. Meaning we need a party who will implement CC policies... but that party needs to win government ... so the issue is the ALP need to win government .... meaning no more Bill Shorten's wendybr 1 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 acolytes I hope you don't mean me? Wendy can be my acolyte if she likes, but that means that means applying to join the Inner West Hipster (Wanker) clique, which would require a full denouement of Jordan Peterson and purchase of fixed gear bicycle Oh and I do hate Morrison, he loony hard right, hillsonger, who worked in advertising of course I hate him, all right minded people should 53 minutes ago, wendybr said: Sadly tho, the Right doesn't think like this...or so far hasn't. Far from me to be the defender of the right. The issue is that the mainstream right wing parties in three countries have been taken over and become beholden to a bunch of far right wingnuts, who won't believe in anything that doesn't support their ideology. There is no reason why somebody who is economically and socially conservative can't believe in and lead meaningful action in climate change. I just can't see it from either the Trump lead republicans, Boris and his mates, or Liberal party lead by pentagostal and contains the likes of Craig Kelly I'm generally suspicious of the religious rights, ability to believe in climate change, as if you base your values off "faith" than that isn't a good start to be able to look at science @theseeker I hope is the The Seeker of a reaction EmMac, Wobblies and sonar 3 Link to comment
Wobblies Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) The IMF (that Marxist body) estimates that Australia subsidies the fossil fuel industry to the tune of $29 billion (yes billion) annually. That's approx $1,200 per person. Edited January 19, 2020 by Ossified wendybr, StringerBellend, sonar and 1 other 4 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Midfielder said: Actually only partly correct.... and thats the issue with making CC about left and right... I hope this does not come across the wrong way.... but most of the people who deny CC are uneducated followers .... they are also very loud and very aggressive ... they hang on the words of Alan Jones , Andrew Bolt .... and the corruption of our political system by the fossil industry is huge as is their advertising dollars ... Many of the CC Deniers live in traditional labour areas .... Its beyond obvious the Libs are caught by CC deniers ... they have them by the balls... The ALP hopefully will introduce CC polices .... but to win government is the issue... Despite being more right than left I am a swinging voter and lost my first election at the last election as I voted for the ALP and on CC alone.... but seats lost to the Libs especially in Queensalnd but also the lack of pick up in Victoria reflected a poorly run campaign ... Its no longer an issue of education, the more evidence you give most CC Deniers the more they say is all BS... somehow between talk back, Sky after dark, News major papers we have created a large group of people who no matter what you say and do simply refuse to accept the evidence. Meaning we need a party who will implement CC policies... but that party needs to win government ... so the issue is the ALP need to win government .... meaning no more Bill Shorten's The challenge for the ALP to win government is you are swimming against a tide of "talk back, Sky after dark, News major papers we have created a large group of people who no matter what you say and do simply refuse to accept the evidence." It's near impossible for Labor to win, you have to go back to Kevin 07 to find a labor leader that took government from the Libs and Hawke prior to that (others retained a Labor government). You need to be an exceptional leader to do it. For all Rudds faults (and there where many) he was/is a great communicator. I'm a big Gillard fan but while she won an election it was still returning a labor government. St Albo, patron saint of craft brewing vinyl issues of Radio Birdman, will struggle against the sheer tide of reality denying bullshit New Ltd, Tele, Australia, 7, 9, Talk Back Radio, right wing nut jobs on twitter …. EmMac, sonar, Wobblies and 1 other 4 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 anyhow debating if we should do something or how we do it, is a waste of time with a person who doesn't believe in the problem in the first place sonar 1 Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Midfielder said: Its no longer an issue of education, the more evidence you give most CC Deniers the more they say is all BS... somehow between talk back, Sky after dark, News major papers we have created a large group of people who no matter what you say and do simply refuse to accept the evidence. Also, in addition to the factors you mention, the influence on younger people who are deniers comes from the internet. It's interesting...CC denial has the power of a religious cult, even though deniers will accuse climate change activists as treating the issue like religion. sonar and Wobblies 2 Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ossified said: The IMF (that Marxist body) estimates that Australia subsidies the fossil fuel industry to the tune of $29 billion (yes billion) annually. That's approx $1,200 per person. Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, StringerBellend said: anyhow debating if we should do something or how we do it, is a waste of time with a person who doesn't believe in the problem in the first place Engaging with other people who think differently is never a waste of time Stringer. But that is an issue we strongly disagree on. Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, StringerBellend said: acolytes I hope you don't mean me? Wendy can be my acolyte if she likes... @theseeker LOL...no way! I almost made a comment about you being a very bad acolyte of mine! We lefties are a broad church.. Oh... wait a minute. StringerBellend and Wobblies 2 Link to comment
Wobblies Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, wendybr said: Engaging with other people who think differently is never a waste of time Stringer. But that is an issue we strongly disagree on. True to a degree, however, arguing with an idiot is generally pointless as they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, StringerBellend said: acolytes I hope you don't mean me? Wendy can be my acolyte if she likes, but that means that means applying to join the Inner West Hipster (Wanker) clique, which would require a full denouement of Jordan Peterson and purchase of fixed gear bicycle Oh and I do hate Morrison, he loony hard right, hillsonger, who worked in advertising of course I hate him, all right minded people should @theseeker Sorry I have to multi -post in response to one of yours Stringer...can't do it any other way on my phone. PS I do despise him now. I cannot watch him. He makes my skin crawl. He disgusts me. And that takes a lot from someone like me....honestly. But that's different from what @theseeker suggested..sour grapes about an election loss. Just to be clear. StringerBellend and EmMac 2 Link to comment
marron Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, wendybr said: Engaging with other people who think differently is never a waste of time Stringer. But that is an issue we strongly disagree on. The key is engaging. Like many a troll/red piller/deep webber before them, our mate here will claim to engage without feels and with objectivity and then spout a few mistruths, maybe reel off some rhetorical rebuttals and then disappear. Although our mate doesn't seem to be even at that level yet, it's just the mistruth and disappear stage. In short, no engagement. sonar, EmMac, Wobblies and 1 other 4 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, wendybr said: Engaging with other people who think differently is never a waste of time Stringer. But that is an issue we strongly disagree on. My point wasn't about debating people with a different opinion, I'm all for it and totally get that we need to do that (more on that later) My point was that there are multiple points here 1) Do you believe Climate Change is real and impact by mans actions? i.e. a) Is the climate changing? b) Has man had an impact on this? 2) Therefore, should we do something about it? 3) What should we do?, and How should we do it? Our seeking friend here is throwing up arguments about 2) (very dull ones), but like most deniers he is just throwing rocks hoping one hits. There is no point in debating 2) unless you agree on 1). If climate change isn't real then of course we shouldn't act. If our seeking friend and his mates don't believe in 1) then debating 2) with them is pointless as it is irrelevant. -- Ok on my position on if you debate with people who have different opinion, my default position is to debate, you of all people should see that! However I have often said that "I'd rather slam my privates in debate, climate change with a denier" and that comes to I can give them every fact, figure, peer group reviewed paper and they won't believe it but instead they will - refer to me some youtube clip, blogger, or a scientist with questionable qualifications in the field - go down the usual list of arguments (like we only contribute < X%, or the climate has always changed) and one by one I'll waste my life, watching or reading their evidence, and putting a reasoned argument together, and they will just come back with another even more boring argument... This goes on forever, not to say I shouldn't debate I should, but I'd still rather jam my cock in a car door than do it. In short I agree that we should, I just don't like doing it with deniers. sonar and wendybr 1 1 Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ossified said: True to a degree, however, arguing with an idiot is generally pointless as they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. You see, I don't like name calling either, Ossi. It shuts down debate more quickly than anything else. I have come to see there are many reasons why people think as they do...and it interests me. Do I have one iota of expectation that I can influence someone on that side? Nope. I know from experience. But I once COULD NOT understand deniers, COULD NOT! And now I sort of do understand a range of their beliefs. Wobblies 1 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I'd be interested if there are stats to back up my believe, but on where young people get their climate change denial from. Most of them don't, generally (not all) young people do believe in climate change.. it's the older people that are the problem on this one. Here's the optimist in me. I believe that children are our future Teach them well.... Show them the beauty ... wendybr and sonar 2 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, StringerBellend said: The challenge for the ALP to win government is you are swimming against a tide of "talk back, Sky after dark, News major papers we have created a large group of people who no matter what you say and do simply refuse to accept the evidence." It's near impossible for Labor to win, you have to go back to Kevin 07 to find a labor leader that took government from the Libs and Hawke prior to that (others retained a Labor government). You need to be an exceptional leader to do it. For all Rudds faults (and there where many) he was/is a great communicator. I'm a big Gillard fan but while she won an election it was still returning a labor government. St Albo, patron saint of craft brewing vinyl issues of Radio Birdman, will struggle against the sheer tide of reality denying bullshit New Ltd, Tele, Australia, 7, 9, Talk Back Radio, right wing nut jobs on twitter …. Nail head... However, Ch 10, the ABC, Fairfax, SBS & Ch 9 support CC... The skill needed is use the media organisations that support CC and then win the debate . An example I keep using is early in the election Bill Shorten loss the debate to the Libs over Electric Vehicles... the Libs SCREAMED the Labour man telling tradies they can't use their utes... This was a no brainier slam dunk for the ALP they could nay should have torn the Libs and talk back to shreds on EV and set the tone for the election... what it showed the screamed CC but new little as anyone half involved understand EV will be the most common car made from late 2020 and early 2030. These are facts pertaining to EV's China by 2040 all vehicles, ie trucks, buses cars etc all EV... they are 30% of the worlds new car sales. Europe ... between 2039 & 2042 all countries to EV's 18% of the new car market India ... different regions but between 2045 & 2048 all EV Japan... all EV by 2041 In essence close to 70% of the new car markets are moving to EV by early 20240, given car last for say 10 years... from 2028 to 2032 car manufactures will only make EV.. or mostly EV's Wobblies, StringerBellend and wendybr 3 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, wendybr said: You see, I don't like name calling either, Ossi. It shuts down debate more quickly than anything else. I have come to see there are many reasons why people think as they do...and it interests me. Do I have one iota of expectation that I can influence someone on that side? Nope. I know from experience. But I once COULD NOT understand deniers, COULD NOT! And now I sort of do understand a range of their beliefs. yes but he is an idiot Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, marron said: The key is engaging. Like many a troll/red piller/deep webber before them, our mate here will claim to engage without feels and with objectivity and then spout a few mistruths, maybe reel off some rhetorical rebuttals and then disappear. Although our mate doesn't seem to be even at that level yet, it's just the mistruth and disappear stage. In short, no engagement. We'll see. The "logic, and without feels" claim fascinates me. I was going to ask our sparring partners how they feel about one billion incinerated animals (although that figure was around a week ago, and heaps more has burnt since). And how they feel about millions of other creatures now potentially starving to death. Does that thought...or do images of that...make them feel anything? At all? Link to comment
Midfielder Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, wendybr said: Also, in addition to the factors you mention, the influence on younger people who are deniers comes from the internet. It's interesting...CC denial has the power of a religious cult, even though deniers will accuse climate change activists as treating the issue like religion. Very true... Link to comment
wendybr Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, StringerBellend said: yes but he is an idiot Oh do shut up. StringerBellend 1 Link to comment
StringerBellend Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Midfielder said: Nail head... However, Ch 10, the ABC, Fairfax, SBS & Ch 9 support CC... The skill needed is use the media organisations that support CC and then win the debate . An example I keep using is early in the election Bill Shorten loss the debate to the Libs over Electric Vehicles... the Libs SCREAMED the Labour man telling tradies they can't use their utes... This was a no brainier slam dunk for the ALP they could nay should have torn the Libs and talk back to shreds on EV and set the tone for the election... what it showed the screamed CC but new little as anyone half involved understand EV will be the most common car made from late 2020 and early 2030. These are facts pertaining to EV's China by 2040 all vehicles, ie trucks, buses cars etc all EV... they are 30% of the worlds new car sales. Europe ... between 2039 & 2042 all countries to EV's 18% of the new car market India ... different regions but between 2045 & 2048 all EV Japan... all EV by 2041 In essence close to 70% of the new car markets are moving to EV by early 20240, given car last for say 10 years... from 2028 to 2032 car manufactures will only make EV.. or mostly EV's Fairfax is gone.. 9 may believe in CC but it is always going to back a Liberal government unless Labor agree to drop all media ownership laws.. wendybr, EmMac and Wobblies 3 Link to comment
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