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18 minutes ago, Flytox said:

You do know that Albo is dropping the 45% emissions reduction policy?

What is the new target...and was it announced before or after the fires, Flytox?

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It's effing hilarious when I hear people saying that a party that introduced a carbon policy that was working, got defeated at the ballot box because of it, should now have to be the ones to step up to do the dirty work on emission reductions again....while those that tore it down and are commited to do nothing get a free pass......ie the current govt.........what an effing farce.......:rofl:

Edited by sonar

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6 minutes ago, wendybr said:

What is the new target...and was it announced before or after the fires, Flytox?

He hasn't announced the new time frame and only announced it today (or yesterday).

He's being a typical politician. No detail about anything until they think it might get them re-elected. Both sides are as bad as each other really.

It sickens me.

Oh, for the days of another Hawke or Keating. Even Howard to a lesser extent, despite his policies.

 

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Hard for him to commit to a target when he isn’t in power and what be for the next three years. Can’t commit to achieve something by 2025 when you won’t be in power until 2022-23, if the Libs don’t reduce emissions at all then labor are left with 2 years to do the lot. 

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20 hours ago, wendybr said:

Acolytes? Well that's  a new one.

Lol. If you say so.

I didn't hate Morrison.

I was frustrated at the election loss.... sure, but could see where the ALP had frightened away people.

I had no idea of the damage that election result could have brought.

Morrison had seemed sort of benign... compared Abbott, and I had been massively relieved that Dutton didn't claw his way to the top when he ousted Turnbull. That had seemed the best outcome.

I have NOT said I blame Morrison for climate change. That would be utterly absurd.

I DO blame him, and anyone who may have supported him, in refusing to even meet the fire chiefs,  and for sitting on his hands for 4 MONTHS, while the fires ravaged the country, and the states efforts were obviously inadequate.

Starting 9 months ago, he made an atrocious blunder. 3-4 months ago, he compounded it by not offering support,  and grinning his way through expressing his reluctance to offer support...."It's  not a Commonealth issue" <grins and shrugs>

When he finally decided he had to act, in response to howls of criticism here and internationally, he backed that up with a self promoting bullshit advertisement, simultaneously fund raising for the Liberal party.

How anyone who loves this country, whether left or right leaning, can not be disgusted and outraged by his performance, is beyond me.

:hi:

See you don't get it.

Under the Australian Constitution there is a division of rights and responsibilities between the Commonwealth and the States and the various State empires and fiefdoms get their knickers in a big knot  when they feel there is Commonwealth intrusion on those rights and responsibilities.

It is well established that bushfires are a States responsibility. So Morrison had to initially tread carefully.

Notwithstanding that , he has intruded and money and assistance has flowed. Interestingly when some retired Fire chief named Mullins criticized  the Commonwealth NSW RFS Chief told the Sunrise program " We've had tremendous support from the Commonwealth and we got everything we asked "

Wendy , get over this unhealthy , irrational criticism of Morrison it's no good for you. Reminds me of Beer's unhealthy obsession  with FCB and Manfred.

As an aside why is the Midfielder with the Mariners logo posting on a Wanderers website ? Don't the Mariners have a website ?

 

 

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18 minutes ago, theseeker said:

See you don't get it.

Under the Australian Constitution there is a division of rights and responsibilities between the Commonwealth and the States and the various State empires and fiefdoms get their knickers in a big knot  when they feel there is Commonwealth intrusion on those rights and responsibilities.

It is well established that bushfires are a States responsibility. So Morrison had to initially tread carefully.

Notwithstanding that , he has intruded and money and assistance has flowed. Interestingly when some retired Fire chief named Mullins criticized  the Commonwealth NSW RFS Chief told the Sunrise program " We've had tremendous support from the Commonwealth and we got everything we asked "

Wendy , get over this unhealthy , irrational criticism of Morrison it's no good for you. Reminds me of Beer's unhealthy obsession  with FCB and Manfred.

As an aside why is the Midfielder with the Mariners logo posting on a Wanderers website ? Don't the Mariners have a website ?

 

 

So your happy with Morrison’s handling of the disaster? and his inaction on climate change? 
 

That is your expectation of a leader?

So Climate Change, do you believe in it?

do you think it is something that we should act on?

 

Edited by StringerBellend

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36 minutes ago, theseeker said:

See you don't get it.

Under the Australian Constitution there is a division of rights and responsibilities between the Commonwealth and the States and the various State empires and fiefdoms get their knickers in a big knot  when they feel there is Commonwealth intrusion on those rights and responsibilities.

It is well established that bushfires are a States responsibility. So Morrison had to initially tread carefully.

Notwithstanding that , he has intruded and money and assistance has flowed. Interestingly when some retired Fire chief named Mullins criticized  the Commonwealth NSW RFS Chief told the Sunrise program " We've had tremendous support from the Commonwealth and we got everything we asked "

Wendy , get over this unhealthy , irrational criticism of Morrison it's no good for you. Reminds me of Beer's unhealthy obsession  with FCB and Manfred.

As an aside why is the Midfielder with the Mariners logo posting on a Wanderers website ? Don't the Mariners have a website ?

 

 

I think its a bit cute to first say, "it's not my responsibility" and to now jump in and offer all this assistance. Does Morrison not know his role? Either Morrison does not believe it is his responsibility and is acting contrary to his view on the separation of powers or he does believe that the Federal Government has some role to play and did not offer this up on the first place. 

When the going gets tough, Morrison has gone to Hawaii. I think that's what people will remember of him during a national emergency.

Edited by Burztur

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28 minutes ago, theseeker said:

Notwithstanding that , he has intruded and money and assistance has flowed. Interestingly when some retired Fire chief named Mullins criticized  the Commonwealth NSW RFS Chief told the Sunrise program " We've had tremendous support from the Commonwealth and we got everything we asked "

Then tell me why is the RFS ringing me and other people I know to ask for assistance? 1 call last week and 1 the week before. When I told the caller that the public has been told by several Fire commissioners and Morrison that they had everything his answer was that those Firies on the ground were telling a different story.

 

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14 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Also on whoever said that Australia only contributes like 1.3% of global warming and hence shouldn't do anything... wtf

By the time I get to shower at night, I'm only using like... maybe 2% of the water that day, but if my girlfriend hops in the shower after me and we're out of hot water, I'm gonna be single again lol

I think you should have a longer shower regardless if you want to keep that girlfriend :)

But to your point, we export a large amount of coal. If we didn't, it's likely to be sourced in other countries. Coal isn't the future and we should be investing in other energy sources like Hydrogen. It annoys me the most that we aren't looking into alternative energy sources to grow more jobs in this country. We're a passenger.

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12 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So your happy with Morrison’s handling of the disaster? and his inaction on climate change? 
 

That is your expectation of a leader?

So Climate Change, do you believe in it?

do you think it is something that we should act on?

 

Happy with his handling of the disaster overall , and so is the NSW RFS chief, and within the constraints of the Constitution  , what inaction  ? We are meeting our agreed targets and we have 1.3% of global emissions.

Climate Change has been around for I believe for 4.5 billion years. For example at least five ice ages  when humans didn't even exist. 

Already being acted upon , but again our emissions are 1.3% of the global total. Don't even touch the sides.

Any , why am I answering your questions , I'm not here for your benefit old son .

 

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8 minutes ago, Ossified said:

Then tell me why is the RFS ringing me and other people I know to ask for assistance? 1 call last week and 1 the week before. When I told the caller that the public has been told by several Fire commissioners and Morrison that they had everything his answer was that those Firies on the ground were telling a different story.

 

Well they should be telling their RFS  boss  shouldn't they not you. What are you going to do ? 

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7 minutes ago, theseeker said:

Well they should be telling their RFS  boss  shouldn't they not you. What are you going to do ? 

 

54 minutes ago, theseeker said:

As an aside why is the Midfielder with the Mariners logo posting on a Wanderers website ? Don't the Mariners have a website ?

He's much more welcome on here than you are. At least he's not a Sydney fc SUPPORTER.

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6 minutes ago, theseeker said:

Happy with his handling of the disaster overall , and so is the NSW RFS chief, and within the constraints of the Constitution  , what inaction  ? We are meeting our agreed targets and we have 1.3% of global emissions.

Climate Change has been around for I believe for 4.5 billion years. For example at least five ice ages  when humans didn't even exist. 

Already being acted upon , but again our emissions are 1.3% of the global total. Don't even touch the sides.

Any , why am I answering your questions , I'm not here for your benefit old son .

 

Give. you don’t believe that climate change is real.

It is a waste of time talking 1.3% figure? As any real action is too much, for you. We could be 90% or 0.013% it’s not relevant If you don’t accept the science that there is a problem in the first place.

You don’t have to answer my questions it’s fine. But the interest of reaching across the divide and for @wendybr view that it we should always try and reason (when I’d rather jam my cock in a car door than go through the process of having to research each of your statements)

The core is Why is it that you doubt IPCC, NASA, CSIRO and every reputable university, evidence of climate change and mans impact. We can go backward and forward with % targets and debate if Morrison is a tosser or not.

But the key here is the evidence is clear that it’s real, regardless of left or right. Yet you won’t accept it, so geniuely interested in what it is or was that caused you to abandon science.

Because we both know the climate has always been changing theory has already been dealt with by scientists. 

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3 minutes ago, Ossified said:

 

He's much more welcome on here than you are. At least he's not a Sydney fc SUPPORTER.

Might explain why he's a few fries short of a happy meal.

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17 minutes ago, Ossified said:

 

He's much more welcome on here than you are. At least he's not a Sydney fc SUPPORTER.

Ossified meaning means " turn to bone".That would be you BONEHEAD. !

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Are you a happy clapper seeker? How much does it cost to save your soul these days?

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On the 1.3% thing, I read recently that if you add up all of the countries with carbon emissions equal to or less than ours it makes up roughly 40% of total emissions, which as a group is bigger than any of the individual big emitters.

Even if the US, China, India etc decided to reduce carbon emissions it wouldn't be enough if that 40% decided that they "don't even touch the sides".

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The thing I find annoying about those who say CC is not happening is the hypocrisy. Take for instance Tony " CC is crap Abbott" or Pauline " CC is rubbish " Hanson or the conservatives  Craig " spot the brain cell " Kelly " .....etc 

So they don't believe in CC.....fair enough, but they are then quite prepared to waste taxpayer $'s on reduction schemes that they say are not required, and they do nothing about insurance companies hiking up premiums for their constituents when those same companies say the rises are due to increased exposure to CC. Yet again are doing nothing when those premiums flow through the economy in increased prices.......for everything. They are quite happy for the people to pay for something that isn't real to them.

Hypocrisy writ large. 

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13 hours ago, wendybr said:

What is the new target...and was it announced before or after the fires, Flytox?

He mentioned yesterday that the 45% target was an election mistake and it would be reviewed.

 

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6 hours ago, theseeker said:

Happy with his handling of the disaster overall , and so is the NSW RFS chief, and within the constraints of the Constitution  , what inaction  ? We are meeting our agreed targets and we have 1.3% of global emissions.

Climate Change has been around for I believe for 4.5 billion years. For example at least five ice ages  when humans didn't even exist. 

Already being acted upon , but again our emissions are 1.3% of the global total. Don't even touch the sides.

So as someone who,  no doubt, doesn't want the government reaching into your wallet, does it worry you that IF the govt had ordered those 5 firefighting aircraft at a cost of 20 million, before fire services got totally overwhelmed, the gov't now wouldnt be having to spend many times that amount mopping up the mess?

Ad campaigns to lure international tourists back (30-40% cancellation rate I think I heard yesterday, and potential loss to the nation of 4.5 billion dollars for 2020)....as just one of the costs to the gov't as a result of negligence?

 

PS Don't worry about me developing any unhealthy obsessions here. I need somewhere to vent my grief for a billion incinerated animals, and millions more still suffering.

People all over the world are grieving over that.

 

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Indeed it must. :rolleyes:

It's all about priorities, isnt it?

And we know where theirs are....and are not. ;)

 

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41 minutes ago, wendybr said:

So as someone who,  no doubt, doesn't want the government reaching into your wallet, does it worry you that IF the govt had ordered those 5 firefighting aircraft at a cost of 20 million, before fire services got totally overwhelmed, the gov't now wouldnt be having to spend many times that amount mopping up the mess?

Ad campaigns to lure international tourists back (30-40% cancellation rate I think I heard yesterday, and potential loss to the nation of 4.5 billion dollars for 2020)....as just one of the costs to the gov't as a result of negligence?

 

PS Don't worry about me developing any unhealthy obsessions here. I need somewhere to vent my grief for a billion incinerated animals, and millions more still suffering.

People all over the world are grieving over that.

 

The planes would not have stopped the big fires Wendy.  They may have protected more property on the lower fire rated days but would have made no difference on the high and extreme weather days.  As far as I know they aren't usable for night fire fighting either.  Special helicopters in Victoria were used for the first time for night fire fighting but even they have limitations.  Fires in eucalyptus forests are always going to happen. in fact they are essential.

The animals would still have been killed and hurt even if we adopted better climate change policy a decade ago.  The warming factors that affect our climate and produce our weather respond to global emissions.

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5 minutes ago, Flytox said:

The planes would not have stopped the big fires Wendy.  They may have protected more property on the lower fire rated days but would have made no difference on the high and extreme weather days.  As far as I know they aren't usable for night fire fighting either.  Special helicopters in Victoria were used for the first time for night fire fighting but even they have limitations.  Fires in eucalyptus forests are always going to happen. in fact they are essential.

The animals would still have been killed and hurt even if we adopted better climate change policy a decade ago.  The warming factors that affect our climate and produce our weather respond to global emissions.

Hi Flytox

I know they wouldn't have stopped the fires, but we'll never know what difference they COULD  have made.

They could have made SOME difference....if they'd been here for the past 4 months, instead of just arriving now.

:):)

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5 hours ago, sonar said:

  Craig " spot the brain cell " Kelly " .....etc 

 

An interesting point on """Kelly""" the liberal party hhhmmm not sure of the name I think its called the local branch but each seat has a group of people belonging to a party that select the member they want to represent them.

At times the ""'party""' may want someone and the locals someone else... 

It beyond unusual for a sitting member to be voted out by the local party branch almost unheard of in Australian politics from all parties where the local branch members want to kick out their own elected member.

Kelly was voted out by his branch by a big margin.... and "Scott the marketing guy" overruled the local branch and appointed Kelly over a local member. chosen by members of Kelly's local branch.. guess what the member the local branch had chosen.... was a strong believer in CC...   but ""Scott the marketing guy""" used some power PM's have and reappointed Kelly ...

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14 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

An interesting point on """Kelly""" the liberal party hhhmmm not sure of the name I think its called the local branch but each seat has a group of people belonging to a party that select the member they want to represent them.

At times the ""'party""' may want someone and the locals someone else... 

It beyond unusual for a sitting member to be voted out by the local party branch almost unheard of in Australian politics from all parties where the local branch members want to kick out their own elected member.

Kelly was voted out by his branch by a big margin.... and "Scott the marketing guy" overruled the local branch and appointed Kelly over a local member. chosen by members of Kelly's local branch.. guess what the member the local branch had chosen.... was a strong believer in CC...   but ""Scott the marketing guy""" used some power PM's have and reappointed Kelly ...

My point has nothing to do with the party but more to do with their hypocrisy on CC. If they fervently believe it isn't real they shouldn't be be prepared to shaft their constituents by voting for and allowing:

a) govt funds to be used for emission reduction instead of for hospitals,schools etc,

b) Insurance companies to hike premiums due to exposure to a supposed non existent CC. That flows through to all sectors of the economy as they are factured in to the prices of products and services.

 

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13 minutes ago, sonar said:

My point has nothing to do with the party but more to do with their hypocrisy on CC. If they fervently believe it isn't real they shouldn't be be prepared to shaft their constituents by voting for and allowing:

a) govt funds to be used for emission reduction instead of for hospitals,schools etc,

b) Insurance companies to hike premiums due to exposure to a supposed non existent CC. That flows through to all sectors of the economy as they are factured in to the prices of products and services.

I really think most on that side now DO believe that the climate is changing.

Lived experience is telling us that.

Barbaby Joyce says so, Morrison has said so, his govt thinks so (apparently), The Australian (apparently) says so.

But a lot, as TheSeeker did,  would say it's natural, rather than in influenced by human CO2 emissions.

So the Coalition will baulk at anything to do with emissions reductions, but may concede that insurance costs are skyrocketing, and therefore it is justifiable to have insurance companies increase their premiums.

I think it's like kids crossing their fingers behind their backs as they tell a lie...or a half truth (well that used to be a thing ;)).

"Yes yes climate change is real!" you might get from them....but that doesn't mean they think we can or should do anything about it except get ready to adapt to it.

Bit less to worry about that way. 

Sad lol.

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See...nothing has changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/20/scott-morrison-nsw-minister-matt-kean-federal-climate

 

Except that in the case of Matt Kean, he is one Liberal  Environment Minister who actually appears to care about the environment.

Good on him!

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4 hours ago, sonar said:

My point has nothing to do with the party but more to do with their hypocrisy on CC. If they fervently believe it isn't real they shouldn't be be prepared to shaft their constituents by voting for and allowing:

a) govt funds to be used for emission reduction instead of for hospitals,schools etc,

b) Insurance companies to hike premiums due to exposure to a supposed non existent CC. That flows through to all sectors of the economy as they are factured in to the prices of products and services.

 

My guess is somewhere between 75 & 85 % of the population agree with you...and that is growing...

I have no idea why the hard right conservatives are terrified of talk back radio, sky after dark and News tabloid papers... its not as if the other side is going to jump into their place..

Me thinks and this is sad ... that power for powers sake is the game, not whats best for the country... 

This is hurting the CC debate hhhmmm debate is the wrong word its how to introduce CC polices and for that it means winning government ...

I hope Albo is up to the job... early days yet ... so I am undecided but not overly impressed to date.... 

 

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23 hours ago, wendybr said:

Your minimal amount of tax dollars won't fix it, of course it wont.

But we all need to make a contribution.... globally

I totally agree.

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