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Honda Runs Over Wanderers

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We were kicked around from the get go last night. Both ABJ and Riera (especially). Once the tone was set, no one responded. Toivonen, Antonis, Barbs or Honda, not one of them got a kicking until the 2nd half. Babbel was right about them being boys against men. The soft early yellow on Elrich didn't help but Hamill went missing and the two scrawny kids at number 6 couldn't do caca. 

The squad problems were seriously exposed last night, as was the lack of experience, toughness and composure. 

Not sure how much lands at Babbel's feet. Are there players in the squad not selected who could have done better? How could we set up differently? As soon as ABJ and Riera are marked (or kicked) out of the game we have nothing in transition. 

Gombau and club leadership left the squad totally unbalanced, too many wide players with little goal scoring and a shallow defensive unit. Unfilled Marquee spot. Add to that injuries in all the wrong places ( Zeigler, Roly, Tongyik, Bridge) and no fire power off the bench when Riera can't score. 

I don't know if we made them look good but Victory in that form would have put any team in the bottom half of the league to the sword last night. 

Scraping the 6 is possible but this squad won't hang with top 4 or 5, regardless of coaching. 

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Gombau's gone.....Babbel is the man in charge and he takes the ultimate responsibility for the way the teams trains,presents and performs.

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3 minutes ago, sonar said:

Gombau's gone.....Babbel is the man in charge and he takes the ultimate responsibility for the way the teams trains,presents and performs.

Legit question, do you think a different coach would yield different outcomes?

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**** these Jewish owners  Gay league and new stadium.  It's all fake

Support a NPL team

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31 minutes ago, Redwog said:

Legit question, do you think a different coach would yield different outcomes?

No. Babbel, IMO is a good coach. We don't want to be known for having a merry-go-round of coaches.We have seen glimpses of some beautiful play.We need more than glimpses though. I got howled down last season for saying it was the players who bore the major responsibilty for poor performances on the field,not Gumby.

We all can see that our players and squad are not up to a sufficient standard to succeed for 90 min, week in week out. When you have a marquee striker who has gone missing what can you expect. I'm wondering whether his body is here in Aus and his brain is in Spain and the reported offers. I think they were saying on TV during the game  he has had 27 shots on target and got three.

 

Edited by sonar

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lack of real firepower and scoring options - the new stadium will fix that

experienced and gifted mid fielders to help the young guns - the new stadium will fix that

defensive unit thats cohesive and can stand the heat - the new stadium will fix that

etc etc

well thats what it feels like to me, right now

still if we loose 6 nil in our first home game next year i wont care - assuming all the members turn up and we get Parra mark 2 atmosphere - i mean the new stadium will fix that, right

Still in all the doom and gloom you have to give credit to Victory, they looked like a proper football team last night ,.. if only their coach wasn't such a dush bag.

Oh and no love for Shinji in the fox commentators marquee players discussion last night - i mean the hint was right in front of them they just spoke about some Italian dude.

 

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it is pretty obvious that our squad is nowhere near competitive with the top teams. there are a number of reasons for that.

but FMD.....

knowing that and if babbel doesn't by now surely JP can tell him, why the **** did we set up like we are a 'big' team trying to impose ourselves and our style when we clearly just need to set up to make ourselves hard to beat and break down. if deng and ansell want to pass the ball to themselves for 90 minutes - let them. i have no idea why we were pressing like that well into their half leaving huge gaps for them to exploit and running our two potentially dangerous players (riera and baumjohann) into the ground chasing lost causes for 90 minutes. we needed two banks of four defensively with baumjohann and riera putting pressure on the ball once they move ten metres into our half. hold our shape, limit the space for honda, antonis etc to work in. its football 101. only euro giants with unlimited $ can 'impose' their style away from home against top 2 teams. what we tried to do last night was ******* madness

its the same thing that drove me mad with gumby.......

'i play a very high line, its my philosophy'

'but sir, your centrebacks are cornthwaite and thwaite'

'i said...... PHILOSOPHY!!!!!!!'

26 minutes ago, Torcida said:

Support a NPL team

tbf that is the level of most of our squad

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Maybe just my gut feeling, but from what I saw of last nights game, and previous games, this season has probably been written off as experimental. We're seeing a lot of squad rotation and we've not really locked in a starting first. Fundamentally, this shifts every game to be training under Babbel whom may have negotiated this to understand the league given he's 3 year contract. MB and JP are smiling when the camera pans to them, which suggests to me there's something we're not aware of. Thoughts?

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41 minutes ago, sonar said:

No. Babbel, IMO is a good coach. We don't want to be known for having a merry-go-round of coaches.We have seen glimpses of some beautiful play.We need more than glimpses though. I got howled down last season for saying it was the players who bore the major responsibilty for poor performances on the field,not Gumby.

We all can see that our players and squad are not up to a sufficient standard to succeed for 90 min, week in week out. When you have a marquee striker who has gone missing what can you expect. I'm wondering whether his body is here in Aus and his brain is in Spain and the reported offers. I think they were saying on TV during the game  he has had 27 shots on target and got three.

 

Fair enough. I think Gumby lost the dressing room and by the time he showed up experimenting in a derby, the fans also. 

Riera is a tough one to figure out. Something is going on mentally. Maybe too much self-imposed pressure. Maybe not enough of the service he likes (we still don't cross to him very much).

Last night he worked hard, took some nasty knocks, and kept throwing himself back into the fray. So can't be suggested he is not giving it his all, but yeah, maybe he is homesick. 

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Prydz junior screamed through the 90 minutes, I’m guessing it was speed & Harper, your ears must have hurt just as much as mine :lol: 

In all seriousness, from the bits that I managed to take in, was a shambles. I’d say that we made took some steps forward in Perth before a step backwards in the derby. Then steps forward in Wellington & Mudgee before some steps backwards at Spotless. It looks like now we have gone into a tailspin.

Babbel is a straight talking guy, hope is takes a no bullshit approach to explaining this performance. It was this exact sort of rubbish that cost Gumby his job.

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the issue i have with this is we are terrible under gombau........blame gombau........we are terrible under babbel, blame the higher ups, either way we have been terrible for years

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8 minutes ago, Redwog said:

Fair enough. I think Gumby lost the dressing room and by the time he showed up experimenting in a derby, the fans also. 

Riera is a tough one to figure out. Something is going on mentally. Maybe too much self-imposed pressure. Maybe not enough of the service he likes (we still don't cross to him very much).

Last night he worked hard, took some nasty knocks, and kept throwing himself back into the fray. So can't be suggested he is not giving it his all, but yeah, maybe he is homesick. 

I have no qualms about Gumby being shown the door.The results were not there to justify his staying.

It will most probably not happen but I would be happy to see us get a few 0-0 draws....get some defensive structure in place......keep a few clean sheets.....and then go the hard press. We are leaking goals big time........in the trials and now in the league.

I want Babbel and more importantly the club,  to succeed.....everyone does. 

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3 minutes ago, Swarth said:

the issue i have with this is we are terrible under gombau........blame gombau........we are terrible under babbel, blame the higher ups, either way we have been terrible for years

After the GF loss to Adelaide Popa gutted the squad......we have been terrible since. I'm not blaming Popa here, though I still cannot fathom why a GF team was gutted to the extent it was. Salary cap....?

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23 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Prydz junior screamed through the 90 minutes, I’m guessing it was speed & Harper, your ears must have hurt just as much as mine :lol: 

 

I screamed throughout the 90mins also........I fed myself a bottle of wine....

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4 hours ago, westofcentre said:

I find it interesting to observe that this far into Gombao's tenure people were calling for his head.

The issue with Gumby was that he was very far down the pecking order of choices, it was why at the end of the season we let him go.

4 hours ago, westofcentre said:

With the new make up of the FFA board and things going to sh*t on so many metrics across the league maybe it is time for the fans to stand up and get the 51% community owned model going. 

I pushed for a community ownership model (closer to 10%) but it didn’t appear to be much appetite for community ownership.

2 hours ago, Jukes01 said:

The first mistake from the club was not securing any succession planning or contingency for the day when Popa would leave.

 In hindsight we would have been better off having Foxe in charge for at least one year.

Of course Lederer and those in charge wanted to make a big statement and signed Gombau

there were some bright spots in some of the games we were playing and you could see that towards the end of his tenure.

 how long it takes to implement his style but didn't have the patience to see it through.

the club backed the players instead of the coach. That sends a wrong message in my opinion. 

The next big mistake was allowing Gombau to sign a bunch of players for the following season while contemplating getting rid of him. 

A few things, nobody could have predicted that Popa was going to leave at that point. He spent a whole preseason with the squad, convinced the owners to invest in two marquees he wanted. The club were bewildered & furious that they were given zero notice & a few days before Popa left. Burnt bridges.

Future planning works but only to a point, you can plan all you want but if your preferences aren’t available then what are you supposed to do? I agree with Foxe but not many people had faith in his ability to be a manager, yet.

Gumby was not first, second or third choice manager. When they went with him, they initially backed him for the long term based on what he promised the club.

There was nothing bright under Gumby, we started playing okay when the pressure was off & there was nothing to achieve. When he was first appointed it was very different to the end of the season. The change of attitude & the change of message caused the club to make a decision. Look at where he ends up this season, seems to have found his level.

When the club made the decision on Gumby it was at the end of the season. Do you blame the club for planning for next season? Had we waited, we’d be signing Mahazi type players rather than the players the coach wanted. The end result is slightly better than waiting & exactly is the issue you were unhappy with in regards to future planning.

This is a general comment, I find it interesting that for people that are in the know, they seem to be quite far off the truth in regards to what actually happened. Speak to the club, go into the club headquarters at Rooty Hill, have a chat with the management team if you are not convinced.

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15 minutes ago, sonar said:

After the GF loss to Adelaide Popa gutted the squad......we have been terrible since. I'm not blaming Popa here, though I still cannot fathom why a GF team was gutted to the extent it was. Salary cap....?

You're right about when it started going bad, but what really hurt us was our coach dumping us on the eve of the season (when the club had committed the resources to delivering him most of the pieces he'd been looking for) and gutted the coaching squad for good measure. 

Gumby inherited a squad that Foxy had barely held together. We dump him and bring in another who inherits a squad that a scrambling Gumby had tried to cobble together. 

All compounding the crap that started with Popa's ill-fated move abroad. Which I believe was just his way of breaking contract with us to return to the A league with an outfit that could give him a winning squad. 

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1 hour ago, sonar said:

No. Babbel, IMO is a good coach. We don't want to be known for having a merry-go-round of coaches.We have seen glimpses of some beautiful play.We need more than glimpses though.

He has the pedigree, he has coached & played at a very high level. He knows what is required & has shown what he can deliver. The club has put there money where there mouth is, spent the money on the best candidate. It is now up to him to prove it.

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1 minute ago, Redwog said:

You're right about when it started going bad, but what really hurt us was our coach dumping us on the eve of the season (when the club had committed the resources to delivering him most of the pieces he'd been looking for) and gutted the coaching squad for good measure. 

Gumby inherited a squad that Foxy had barely held together. We dump him and bring in another who inherits a squad that a scrambling Gumby had tried to cobble together. 

All compounding the crap that started with Popa's ill-fated move abroad. Which I believe was just his way of breaking contract with us to return to the A league with an outfit that could give him a winning squad. 

I may be wrong here but I was under the assumption that Popa had the final say on who played and who was signed.

I geuinely believe he wanted to coach in Europe but going to Turkey was a mistake. Perhaps he got an offer too good to refuse from Perth. He has a championship contending squad this season.

On the other hand our recruitment has been so so. A few contracts are up this season but I do not have faith in the management spending the dollars to get a Honda type for us. For all the talk from management about a winning culture we sure are going about it in a losing fashion.

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1 hour ago, ZachMercer said:

Maybe just my gut feeling, but from what I saw of last nights game, and previous games, this season has probably been written off as experimental. We're seeing a lot of squad rotation and we've not really locked in a starting first. Fundamentally, this shifts every game to be training under Babbel whom may have negotiated this to understand the league given he's 3 year contract. MB and JP are smiling when the camera pans to them, which suggests to me there's something we're not aware of. Thoughts?

I think you may be right

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hit or miss i guess we never hit huh

you got a coach i bet he never coaches ya

 

.........i am going to jump off a cliff now

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20 minutes ago, sonar said:

I may be wrong here but I was under the assumption that Popa had the final say on who played and who was signed.

I geuinely believe he wanted to coach in Europe but going to Turkey was a mistake. Perhaps he got an offer too good to refuse from Perth. He has a championship contending squad this season.

On the other hand our recruitment has been so so. A few contracts are up this season but I do not have faith in the management spending the dollars to get a Honda type for us. For all the talk from management about a winning culture we sure are going about it in a losing fashion.

Even if Honda was playing for us - would whats around him make having him on the park in the red & black be worthwhile??

Maybe I'm wrong, Shinji was such a force but did he inspire a weaker team around him - or was the team good enough to allow Shinji to shine. Honda was excellent last night but chuck him in our midfield and what we have we been like? He said himself last night that Victory have to realise that it wasn't that they were so good - but that we were also bad.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take Honda in a second but then what...its like Riera right now who's probably our best ever striker...whats the point of having the best player in the A-league if he's surrounded by muppets?

 

On the game, never a pen - Chris Beath shouldn't be running a whistle for an under 6's game...he's a ****wit...but at least 3 is where we are right now

Edited by Horus

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1 hour ago, Redwog said:

Fair enough. I think Gumby lost the dressing room and by the time he showed up experimenting in a derby, the fans also. 

Riera is a tough one to figure out. Something is going on mentally. Maybe too much self-imposed pressure. Maybe not enough of the service he likes (we still don't cross to him very much).

Last night he worked hard, took some nasty knocks, and kept throwing himself back into the fray. So can't be suggested he is not giving it his all, but yeah, maybe he is homesick. 

As the game drifted away to it's obvious conclusion, found myself watching biscuit for most of the time, okay he had a few tame attempts at goal but how he reacted to being kicked about by the vics showed me he has some passion, tape up his ankle and shove him back out there.

He put himself about with some vigor after that, should have gone for violent play when he dropped toivenen and ploughed into the crosses even with Thomas flying out with his fists, perhaps he should have dropped into the DM position for 10 mins and showed Baccus and Doherty how to plough in, nobody got in Honda's face there was far too much respect and space afforded to him, he is far too good a player to be left unattended, in truth begrudgingly you could see how that one man was head and shoulders above every other player on the pitch out there last night.

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yea we were flogged, yea we were poor but Victory were red hot, once you go behind against them you push forward and they counter attack better than any team in the comp.  As for the wrist slitting and people not turning up, no problem with it, go your hardest, just don't bother turning up when things turn around either.  We will be top 5 at seasons end.

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No fight, no balls, no pride in the Red & Black.

Nothing more to say, too depressed.

 

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