Honda Runs Over Wanderers

[lloydy136]

At the moment we are like a couple whose marriage is failing horribly but we think moving to a flash new house will fix everything.

SPOILER: it won't.

[StringerBellend]

11 hours ago, wendybr said:

I've never liked them. 

Always been too aggro for me...too nerve-wracking and intense.

Just saying.

You’re not supposed to enjoy them, that’s not what they are for

 

 

see this morning case in point Everton taking “Everton-ness” to new levels 

[hawks2767]

It won't fix everything but it sure will help.

We all remember the entire stadium singing '**** the Victory' after we went 1-0 up against them thanks to Bridge's goal, they were filthy because you could hear it perfectly through the TV.

As long as we don't all walk into this new stadium with the same team we saw Saturday night we'll be fine.

 

[StringerBellend]

Player ratings here are pretty spot on

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/melbourne-victory-4-western-sydney-wanderers-0-player-ratings-516369/page0

 

 

[beatsurrender]

14 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

He’s the standard wsw whinger really 

fixed

[Sithslayer1991]

first 2 mins and the first thing I thought "uh-oh". Tarek got ripped to shreds, JOD and Baccus got killed by Antonis and Honda. Most scary thing i though was there was no way to compete against that type of quality with the team we have. I am not sure if we can even beat the Mariners at this stage if we continue like this, Roly, Ziegler and Bridge we need them back quickly especially Roly we are missing him in the team at the moment.

[GD07]

Our starting 11: 2 who have played internationals.

MV starting 11: 8 who have played internationals.

[Erebus]

Only a win away from Finals Football 

[mack]

We're also a loss and a Mariners win away from the wooden spoon. 

If we lose 2-0 on Friday we'll be in last. 

[Harv]

6 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Player ratings here are pretty spot on

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/melbourne-victory-4-western-sydney-wanderers-0-player-ratings-516369/page0

 

 

A worry here for all teams.  At the post-match interview Honda interview indicated that he was not happy with the performances - more that we played poorly.  He's looking for improvement in the whole MV team.

[beatsurrender]

4 minutes ago, mack said:

We're also a loss and a Mariners win away from the wooden spoon. 

If we lose 2-0 on Friday we'll be in last. 

We won't lose. We'll beat the Mariners and so begins the false dawn again. We'll be upbeat with a victory, with the Mariners making us look good and then we'll tank against the next quality side. Unfortunately Marcus can't make a silk purse etc etc. You can't compete in this league without your imports in good shape. Our striker is woefully out of form and 2 others are injured.

Our club is also determined to ensure it is run to a balance sheet. If this continues then we'l never compete with the Smurfs (who have never broke even in their history yet are happy to spend big) and Victory. Ultimately this is Lederer's decision, he is the majority owner and he can run the club how he see fit but most people who get into football do so because it is their passion and they are happy to lose money on it. Like all of us spend money on what we enjoy, not looking to 'break even'. Equivalent in the EPL is Mike Ashley at Newcastle. Runs the club tight like a business and as long as he does just enough to maintain Premier League status he isn't going to go into the red. If this mentality doesn't change then neither will our hope to compete as a genuine 'big club'. If the salary cap ever goes then we will definitely have to choose between being a constant challenger and an elite Australian club or one who occasionally gives the big boys a bloody nose. A few more thousand every week through the turnstiles ins't going to make that much difference either.

[TheSweeper]

5 hours ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

first 2 mins and the first thing I thought "uh-oh". Tarek got ripped to shreds, JOD and Baccus got killed by Antonis and Honda. Most scary thing i though was there was no way to compete against that type of quality with the team we have. I am not sure if we can even beat the Mariners at this stage if we continue like this, Roly, Ziegler and Bridge we need them back quickly especially Roly we are missing him in the team at the moment.

Agree we are totally ****ed . What we need  to finish 4th or 5th is a good centreback , a solid centre mid and a winger that can scores occasionally . Ziegler may  be the CB but an aging Bridge coming back from injury is unlikely to have much impact until mid jan . Roly is ok as your second best winger or second best mid but way too inconsistent to rely on .

Sad to say but without any January reinforcements  we will be 6th-10th .  

 

[Harv]

1 hour ago, TheSweeper said:

Agree we are totally ****ed . What we need  to finish 4th or 5th is a good centreback , a solid centre mid and a winger that can scores occasionally . Ziegler may  be the CB but an aging Bridge coming back from injury is unlikely to have much impact until mid jan . Roly is ok as your second best winger or second best mid but way too inconsistent to rely on .

Sad to say but without any January reinforcements  we will be 6th-10th .  

 

In total agreement with your comments regarding both the CB role and Roly.  This is where I have some sympathy with Elrich.  It was my understanding that he was bought as a cover for Lorente and/or Risdon, yet here he is every week as a starting CB.  Are Ziegler and Hamill our only central defenders, or is someone else also injured?

Edited December 3, 2018 by Harv

[StringerBellend]

4 minutes ago, Harv said:

In total agrfeement with your comments regarding both the CB role and Roly.  This is where I have some sympathy with Elrich.  It was my understanding that he was bought as a cover for Lorente and/or Risdon, yet here he is every week as a starting CB.  Are Ziegler and Hamill our only central defenders, or is someone else also injured?

Tongyik is injured, and looked ok in the derby 

hammil was forth choice at the start of last year and is now captain 

Edited December 3, 2018 by StringerBellend

[StringerBellend]

Covic in the smh

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/covic-accuses-wanderers-of-lacking-hunger-and-leadership-20181203-p50jxe.html

[Smoggy]

11 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Covic in the smh

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/covic-accuses-wanderers-of-lacking-hunger-and-leadership-20181203-p50jxe.html

Can't really disagree with any of that like.

 

[TheSweeper]

3 hours ago, Harv said:

In total agreement with your comments regarding both the CB role and Roly.  This is where I have some sympathy with Elrich.  It was my understanding that he was bought as a cover for Lorente and/or Risdon, yet here he is every week as a starting CB.  Are Ziegler and Hamill our only central defenders, or is someone else also injured?

Risdon could miss up to 9 games for Asian cup so Tarek will get a real crack at right back . He is a good player but you know a 32 y.o coming back from an ACL is not going to be the answer to any of our problems . 

[GunnerWanderer]

We haven’t had proper leadership since topor left time will tell if Hamill can lead from the front 

[Smoggy]

6 minutes ago, GunnerWanderer said:

We haven’t had proper leadership since topor left time will tell if Hamill can lead from the front 

The fact we are talking about Hamill stepping up to lead from the front says everything about recruitment from the last year or so. I like Hamill, he puts in a shift and is a decent guy, you can see he has worked hard on his game and has cut out some mistakes, but he remains a half decent squad player in the nicest possible way.....

[TheSweeper]

12 minutes ago, GunnerWanderer said:

We haven’t had proper leadership since topor left time will tell if Hamill can lead from the front 

Total failure at our club .The people in charge have no F idea about recruiting these characters . 

Its pretty simple ( to me anyway ) 

Quality older but not too old  player in a key CB or CM position that is looking to return back or move to Oz .

Don’t skimp offer decent money and 3 year contract with coaching role for the 4th year if they wane .

Smurfs did it with Wilko and the  Vic with Valeri . Topor has it , Larocca had it as well and Cornthwaite 1-2 years earlier would have been good I loved his passion.  Surely there’s some of these players out there  .Should be getting the spine right instead  of focusing on a no 10 or striker who usually let us down .

You can’t get leadership with  ridiculous player turnover , youngsters ocupying all the key roles and a constant caravan of average visa players coming in for 1-2 years .  

 

[Smoggy]

8 minutes ago, TheSweeper said:

Total failure at our club .The people in charge have no F idea about recruiting these characters . 

Its pretty simple ( to me anyway ) 

Quality older but not too old  player in a key CB or CM position that is looking to return back or move to Oz .

Don’t skimp offer decent money and 3 year contract with coaching role for the 4th year if they wane .

Smurfs did it with Wilko and the  Vic with Valeri . Topor has it , Larocca had it as well and Cornthwaite 1-2 years earlier would have been good I loved his passion.  Surely there’s some of these players out there  .Should be getting the spine right instead  of focusing on a no 10 or striker who usually let us down .

You can’t get leadership with  ridiculous player turnover , youngsters ocupying all the key roles and a constant caravan of average visa players coming in for 1-2 years .  

 

Makes you wonder what Babbel was sold and promised by Lederer and co and what he thinks now.

Anyway, we should beat CCM on Friday, but if we **** it up its gonna turn nasty, you can feel it...

[TheSweeper]

[btron3000]

53 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Covic in the smh

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/covic-accuses-wanderers-of-lacking-hunger-and-leadership-20181203-p50jxe.html

Hmmm the passion thing again.  Did Covic lose the passion in year 3 when he, and we, were utter shite?

I'm not saying there is not a mentality issue, there clearly is. As Hughsey points out, all the smurf staff think they are the bees knees.  But it's a chicken and egg thing. We started thinking we were great after we won stuff, as did they in the Arnie era. We need a catalyst moment to kick-start it again. Everyone is just hoping the new stadium is that thing I guess. In the meantime, all they can do is work hard.

The other thing is, outside of this ambiguous thing called attitude (or MENTALITY), there are two other problems - technical and tactical deficiency.

The players aren't good enough, and they aren't organised enough. For Victory's first goal, we had 6 players in the box, and they had two (just). Then a third came in with Majok kind of tracking him. That's 7 defenders and only 3 attackers. That is an organisation issue, not attitude. I get it that good communication can come with better attitude, and perhaps having Ziggy out there etc. can help, but it's also on the coaching staff. There is no use going to the press conference and talking about how we looked like rabbits when you can't organise them properly and they are getting sliced open.

[mack]

 

5 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

Hmmm the passion thing again.  Did Covic lose the passion in year 3 when he, and we, were utter shite?

I'm not saying there is not a mentality issue, there clearly is. As Hughsey points out, all the smurf staff think they are the bees knees.  But it's a chicken and egg thing. We started thinking we were great after we won stuff, as did they in the Arnie era. We need a catalyst moment to kick-start it again. Everyone is just hoping the new stadium is that thing I guess. In the meantime, all they can do is work hard.

The other thing is, outside of this ambiguous thing called attitude (or MENTALITY), there are two other problems - technical and tactical deficiency.

The players aren't good enough, and they aren't organised enough. For Victory's first goal, we had 6 players in the box, and they had two (just). Then a third came in with Majok kind of tracking him. That's 7 defenders and only 3 attackers. That is an organisation issue, not attitude. I get it that good communication can come with better attitude, and perhaps having Ziggy out there etc. can help, but it's also on the coaching staff. There is no use going to the press conference and talking about how we looked like rabbits when you can't organise them properly and they are getting sliced open.

Yup.

Even if Llorente had the most passion of anyone in world football, it wouldn't do anything when he stands around ball watching on the penalty spot instead of tracking runs to the back post which is his job.

[sonar]

The WSW experts say it's not the players...lol      

I'm being sarcastic but the terrible recruiting has to stop or we will end up with as many members as the Nix. I sometimes feel like the management & board take the passion of the fans for WSW for granted in that they assume people will turn up regardless.

Regardless of how shitty Spotless is, there is a core of of 10K or so of us supporters that go regardless. Does the club think that these fans won't get jack of having to pay to watch at times mediocre performances.? 

Why can't we recruit a Honda type or an Adrian...?  Management don't want to spend the dollars.? Something about the club behind the scenes that players know but we don't.?

We have an experienced fist tier level coach, with playing experience at the highest level but at the moment his experiences,tactics and coaching aren't translating to the players performing consistantly at a high level on the pitch.

A lot of people are saying that we need decent imports. Is the standard of our players ( A League and football in Aus in general ) so poor that it takes an import to make a difference.? What sort of footballers are we producing? Are the training methods employed in Aus so far behind anywhere else..?

Edited December 3, 2018 by sonar

[btron3000]

27 minutes ago, mack said:

 

Yup.

Even if Llorente had the most passion of anyone in world football, it wouldn't do anything when he stands around ball watching on the penalty spot instead of tracking runs to the back post which is his job.

He was horrendous on Saturday and just standing there in the in the middle of the penalty box achieving absolutely nothing was maybe not even the worst of it.

[mack]

You need foreigners because the entire world is available in those 5 spots, compared to a few hundred (at a stretch) Australian players that would even make A-League squad player quality.

You really need at the absolute minimum, 4 of your foreigners to be firing to have a realistic chance to the title. You might be able to scrape with 3 and a decent 4th off the bench, but you really want 4 or 5 going hard.

I'll go off the Grand Finals because it's easier, Victory won last year with George, Berisha, Kosta in the starting lineup and Sanchez off the bench. I think they might have been the weakest team to win the Grand Final in a long time. SFC won with Buijs, Ninkovic, Bobo & Holosko with Dimitrejevic being a decent 5th place.

We lost to Adelaide who had Carrusca, Sanchez, Cirio & La Rocca, with Sanchez off the bench scoring the sealer. Victory in 14/15 with Delpieerre, Finkler, FBK, Kosta & Berisha, over SFC with Petkovic, Faty, Dimitrejevic, Tavares and Janko.

Roar beat us with the unfortunately Topor injury, their squad had Liam MIller, Broich, Berisha, with Henrique off the bench and Solorzano as a sub when Berisha wasn't needed, and had a similar squad in 2011/12 when Berisha dived to beat Perth (Adnan, Henrique, Broich, Berisha) and the year before in the 2-2 comeback penalty win.

Even the final days of the Mariners dynasty, they had Zwaanswijk (who turned out to be one of the best central defenders the league had seen), McGlinchey as their foreigners. There won't be another cut-price squad like the Mariners winning the Grand Final again. That was the last perfect storm where a team made up of a high majority of Australian players could win. They filled out their squad with promising youth talent from Western Sydney state league clubs (Matt Ryan, Bernie Ibini, Fitzgerald, Mitch Duke) and picked up a number of seasoned Australian veterans (Rose, Bojic, McBreen, Sterjovski). If they had to use Zac Anderson and Anthony Caceres instead of their 2 foreigners they wouldn't have won it. And we had two of our foreigners suspended.

In the first 5 or so years of the A-League teams didn't have a huge amount of foreigners (I think there was only one on the park for both sides for the Mariners/Jets grand final 07/08) and those they did have weren't particularly brilliant (Carlos Hernandez being the biggest star in those early years, subsequently taken over by Broich & Berisha).

No club can get away with poor recruitment. You can't get away with mediocre foreigners. This season we didn't bother using one of the foreign spots, we didn't bother using one of the marquee spots (which we had from when we released Jumpei a year ago), and the three foreigners we stuck with (Riera, Roly & Llorente) have either been hurt or sub-standard in the A-League, Ziggler has been crocked and Baumjohann looks okay until we need a final ball.

[StringerBellend]

Foriegin players are key but You also need (and more so in the last few seasons) strong Australian players victory now have Triosi, Antonis, Deng all fringe Socceroos. Sydney have Zullo, Grant, O’Neil brilannte, Perth..:

Over the last couple of seasons The top teams have used their marquee spots well and then squeeze every $ out of the cap. Were in 2 of the last three seasons we haven’t even bothered with a second marquee. 

Staying the obvious but if this season is going to turn around we’ll need a lot to go right 

Ziegler to be for soon

roly to come back and continue scoring

riera to hit form 

abj to be a star..:

That and a couple of big signings in Jan. 

Fornaroli as a marquee and Bratten In too and we’d look very different 

[Wobblies]

Can someone please explain why (arguably) our 2 best players in the past 2 years Antonis and Ikonimides were not re-recruited when they left Europe?

As has already been mentioned our recruitment when compared to Victory, Smurfs etc has been very poor. 

[btron3000]

6 hours ago, mack said:

You need foreigners because the entire world is available in those 5 spots, compared to a few hundred (at a stretch) Australian players that would even make A-League squad player quality.

You really need at the absolute minimum, 4 of your foreigners to be firing to have a realistic chance to the title. You might be able to scrape with 3 and a decent 4th off the bench, but you really want 4 or 5 going hard.

I'll go off the Grand Finals because it's easier, Victory won last year with George, Berisha, Kosta in the starting lineup and Sanchez off the bench. I think they might have been the weakest team to win the Grand Final in a long time. SFC won with Buijs, Ninkovic, Bobo & Holosko with Dimitrejevic being a decent 5th place.

We lost to Adelaide who had Carrusca, Sanchez, Cirio & La Rocca, with Sanchez off the bench scoring the sealer. Victory in 14/15 with Delpieerre, Finkler, FBK, Kosta & Berisha, over SFC with Petkovic, Faty, Dimitrejevic, Tavares and Janko.

Roar beat us with the unfortunately Topor injury, their squad had Liam MIller, Broich, Berisha, with Henrique off the bench and Solorzano as a sub when Berisha wasn't needed, and had a similar squad in 2011/12 when Berisha dived to beat Perth (Adnan, Henrique, Broich, Berisha) and the year before in the 2-2 comeback penalty win.

Even the final days of the Mariners dynasty, they had Zwaanswijk (who turned out to be one of the best central defenders the league had seen), McGlinchey as their foreigners. There won't be another cut-price squad like the Mariners winning the Grand Final again. That was the last perfect storm where a team made up of a high majority of Australian players could win. They filled out their squad with promising youth talent from Western Sydney state league clubs (Matt Ryan, Bernie Ibini, Fitzgerald, Mitch Duke) and picked up a number of seasoned Australian veterans (Rose, Bojic, McBreen, Sterjovski). If they had to use Zac Anderson and Anthony Caceres instead of their 2 foreigners they wouldn't have won it. And we had two of our foreigners suspended.

In the first 5 or so years of the A-League teams didn't have a huge amount of foreigners (I think there was only one on the park for both sides for the Mariners/Jets grand final 07/08) and those they did have weren't particularly brilliant (Carlos Hernandez being the biggest star in those early years, subsequently taken over by Broich & Berisha).

No club can get away with poor recruitment. You can't get away with mediocre foreigners. This season we didn't bother using one of the foreign spots, we didn't bother using one of the marquee spots (which we had from when we released Jumpei a year ago), and the three foreigners we stuck with (Riera, Roly & Llorente) have either been hurt or sub-standard in the A-League, Ziggler has been crocked and Baumjohann looks okay until we need a final ball.

Agree with all except I'd say ABJ has been let down by poor finishing from his final ball. My main criticism of him is he gets a bit lazy sometimes, but then again he is a classy #10 with some injury issues in his background, you're not going to get a Dino.