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Babbel out?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. In your opinion:

    • Does Babbel deserve another season to clear out some players, rebuild the squad and impart his "mentality"?
      112
    • Do we cut out losses (either at the end of the season or asap) and start the search again?
      6


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1 hour ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

So Wendy, you are saying that the team is crap, aren't good players, are hopeless and a lost cause this year??!  Isn't that pretty negative?  Or is it the truth?  Shouldn't we follow a different example of responding to the players than MB is accused of?

He calls it as it is.  He talks to the team through the week - numerous times, according to hi Presser.  He explains why he says what he does.  He sets a level of professionalism and expectation that is higher than most HAL players have been used to.  Some will not like it and others will lift.  Quite frankly, people on this forum do not want sub-standard players turning.  We want WS ethics in our team - players who work their guts out on and off the field, who play with grit and and tough. 

I understand your comments re: encouragement and being positive...  But I also feel the frustration that professional footballers need to be treated with kid gloves.  When MB quoted the press and 'experts' early in the season it was to ridicule them, not his team.  He also made some very real assessments of HAL that just about every person on this forum has agreed with or stated at some time.  HAL has too many restraints and keeps things average but that doesn't mean we can't raise the bar and set higher standards for ourselves.  Popa tried, with mixed results across his 5 years.  Gombau was sacked for a whole range of stuff he did in the background, in the dressing room - not in public. It was less about results and more about crap, abusive team management.  Take Roly.  Gumby told him he wouldn't play.  Roly asks what he needs to do to improve and play Gumby's style...  Gumby says 'Nothing - its personal!'   MB says ROly is a good player but is is loose and so I have put him on the wing to cover that.  Roly has been very good these past weeks - playing in the centre.  He has largely given what we hoped and expected - after MB challenged him.  That is the response a mature player (or one who wants to learn and improve) will give.  No player, so far has come out and stated that MB is terrible, abusive, lacking...  They seem to respect him - unlike Gumby.

Sorry - enough rant.  Continue normal programming.

Your picking me up for my negativity...and potential hypocrisy, at the start of your post is fair enough.  :good:

My smart arse answer to the rest of your post could have been.......maybe I've listened to too much of our manager's negativity to have much hope of improvement, or of salvaging anything of the season (given the teams we still have to play - and the gap in quality between our team and those at the top). After all, in his German interview, Babbel said he recognised how bad the team was  in the pre-season, and decided we would be OK by NEXT SEASON. He actually thought this and SAID this!

You see how his negativity ripples out...and even though I don't like it, it doesn't mean I haven't been affected by it.  

A less smart arsey answer would be … yes Roly did lift, so it worked there (and I wouldn't defend Gombau's approach with him - Roly was unrecognisable last season).

And I hope no player WILL come out and suggest that Babbel is terrible, abusive etc. I certainly haven't said that - and I've not heard anyone else say that either...despite the fact the we are contenders for the wooden spoon.

And his honest comments about the HAL, the poor quality of referees etc I did cheer for! They should be celebrated. Those comments were totally different to his comments that I have been discussing.

But IF the psychology behind repeatedly announcing to the world (eg via that German interview) that "we are not very good", IF announcing to anyone who watched his interview last week that his players didn't care that they had lost in a humiliating defeat, don't listen to his instructions etc  is perfectly sound, we might have a more competitive team by now. :pardon:

IF he really had nailed how to bring out THE BEST in the players he has, we mightn't be at the bottom of the table.

I can't see evidence that his approach has worked (apart from with Roly)  - it's as simple as that.

Anyway...

 

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16 minutes ago, sonar said:

Agree with this...... but the results on the field are saying something else.

During the commentary of last nights game Simon Hill gave out a stat that was extraordinary..........I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong but .......we have been in front and then have gone on to lose or draw 16 times this season. That's an amazing amount of games to be leading and then capitulate..........

And to me THAT is all about self belief.

And that, more than anything else is what our team has lacked.

And of course it's a chicken and egg argument.... but confidence underpins success in most things.

And that's the case at even the top levels of all professional sport - let alone at A League level.

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6 minutes ago, wendybr said:

And to me THAT is all about self belief.

And that, more than anything else is what our team has lacked.

And of course it's a chicken and egg argument.... but confidence underpins success in most things.

 And that's the case at even the top levels of all professional sport - let alone at A League level.

It’s not self belief we lack

it’s experienced quality CBs and DM and a number 10 that isn’t made of balsa wood

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1 minute ago, StringerBellend said:

It’s not self belief we lack

it’s experienced quality CBs and DM and a number 10 that isn’t made of balsa wood

OK -  that AND self-belief! :lol:

Sure - no one, including our coach, says we have a complete team.

But Popa built a winning team out of cast off players (plus Shinji) and determination and self belief.

Yes skill and experience and balance and success all come into it hugely....and contribute to self belief.

But, amongst his other responsibilities, it's one of the main jobs of a manager to develop a team's self belief and determination.

Maybe the "sitting down and talking " the manager and the team did last week will have been a turning point.

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2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

OK -  that AND self-belief! :lol:

Sure - no one, including our coach, says we have a complete team.

But Popa built a winning team out of cast off players (plus Shinji) and determination and self belief.

Yes skill and experience and balance and success all come into it hugely....and contribute to self belief.

But, amongst his other responsibilities, it's one of the main jobs of a manager to develop a team's self belief and determination.

Maybe the "sitting down and talking " the manager and the team did last week will have been a turning point.

Hopefully we can improve from here. A win against Adelaide would do wonders.

Unfortunately, Baccus Snr spat the dummy just before the season started and we replaced him with Mahazi. The difference in quality is chalk and cheese. He also inherited some lazy Gombau signings. Kamau starting to look better now. 

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8 minutes ago, wendybr said:

OK -  that AND self-belief! :lol:

Sure - no one, including our coach, says we have a complete team.

But Popa built a winning team out of cast off players (plus Shinji) and determination and self belief.

Yes skill and experience and balance and success all come into it hugely....and contribute to self belief.

But, amongst his other responsibilities, it's one of the main jobs of a manager to develop a team's self belief and determination.

Maybe the "sitting down and talking " the manager and the team did last week will have been a turning point.

I agree with the managers role to develop self belief etc and to get the team to buy into a vision. Be greater than the sum of their parts. Popa clearly did that, Gombau clearly didn’t.

Its not as clear with Babbel our results would suggest he hasn’t but I still think the main thing this team lacks is experienced spine of players. Any level you get your GK,CB and Centre Mid right and build from there. We just don’t have the players (especially with Ziegler injured)

popa might have built team with cast offs but he had Covic, beachamp, NTS, poljak and la rocca, that was a solid base 

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13 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

I agree with the managers role to develop self belief etc and to get the team to buy into a vision. Be greater than the sum of their parts. Popa clearly did that, Gombau clearly didn’t.

Its not as clear with Babbel our results would suggest he hasn’t but I still think the main thing this team lacks is experienced spine of players. Any level you get your GK,CB and Centre Mid right and build from there. We just don’t have the players (especially with Ziegler injured)

popa might have built team with cast offs but he had Covic, beachamp, NTS, poljak and la rocca, that was a solid base 

Yes to all that - and THANK YOU  - this is exactly what I've been struggling to express … building a team that's "greater than the sum of its parts".

That's what the negativity so far seems to have totally ruled out.

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1 hour ago, sonar said:

Agree with this...... but the results on the field are saying something else.

During the commentary of last nights game Simon Hill gave out a stat that was extraordinary..........I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong but .......we have been in front and then have gone on to lose or draw 16 times this season. That's an amazing amount of games to be leading and then capitulate..........

I read somewhere today that we have dropped 16 points after leading this season.

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2 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

So Wendy, you are saying that the team is crap, aren't good players, are hopeless and a lost cause this year??!  Isn't that pretty negative?  Or is it the truth?  Shouldn't we follow a different example of responding to the players than MB is accused of?

He calls it as it is.  He talks to the team through the week - numerous times, according to hi Presser.  He explains why he says what he does.  He sets a level of professionalism and expectation that is higher than most HAL players have been used to.  Some will not like it and others will lift.  Quite frankly, people on this forum do not want sub-standard players turning.  We want WS ethics in our team - players who work their guts out on and off the field, who play with grit and and tough. 

I understand your comments re: encouragement and being positive...  But I also feel the frustration that professional footballers need to be treated with kid gloves.  When MB quoted the press and 'experts' early in the season it was to ridicule them, not his team.  He also made some very real assessments of HAL that just about every person on this forum has agreed with or stated at some time.  HAL has too many restraints and keeps things average but that doesn't mean we can't raise the bar and set higher standards for ourselves.  Popa tried, with mixed results across his 5 years.  Gombau was sacked for a whole range of stuff he did in the background, in the dressing room - not in public. It was less about results and more about crap, abusive team management.  Take Roly.  Gumby told him he wouldn't play.  Roly asks what he needs to do to improve and play Gumby's style...  Gumby says 'Nothing - its personal!'   MB says ROly is a good player but is is loose and so I have put him on the wing to cover that.  Roly has been very good these past weeks - playing in the centre.  He has largely given what we hoped and expected - after MB challenged him.  That is the response a mature player (or one who wants to learn and improve) will give.  No player, so far has come out and stated that MB is terrible, abusive, lacking...  They seem to respect him - unlike Gumby.

Sorry - enough rant.  Continue normal programming.

I reckon the 2 first team players who currently being made to train away from the squad to force them out the door & free up cap space would strongly disagree with this opinion.

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31 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

I read somewhere today that we have dropped 16 points after leading this season.

Thanks.....My bad,thought it was something extraordinary.16 points puts us in the finals.....(5th)

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29 minutes ago, Bellby said:

I reckon the 2 first team players who currently being made to train away from the squad to force them out the door & free up cap space would strongly disagree with this opinion.

Which 2?

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2 hours ago, wendybr said:

OK -  that AND self-belief! :lol:

Sure - no one, including our coach, says we have a complete team.

But Popa built a winning team out of cast off players (plus Shinji) and determination and self belief.

Yes skill and experience and balance and success all come into it hugely....and contribute to self belief.

But, amongst his other responsibilities, it's one of the main jobs of a manager to develop a team's self belief and determination.

Maybe the "sitting down and talking " the manager and the team did last week will have been a turning point.

'Self-Belief' - thatwas Popa's mantra - we/I have belief.  Gumby's was philosophy and MB's is mentality.

I confess I had enough of Popa's weekly 'belief' even when we looked like a very ordinary outfit going nowhere (eg his last season).

As for the sum of the parts being greater than the individual bits - sure and we have had that several times but the greater than the whole performance only lasts for 70=80 minutes because injuries, inexperience and a thrown-together side can't sustain the pressure that a team of seasoned pro's and hard players seems able to do.  Listen to what the players say of Babbel - Tate Russel for example gives a resoundingly positive response.  All we are hearing is one bit of honesty in a 6-7 minute presser, taking a few comments out of it (that commentators and most everyone else either agrees with or is saying) and making that Babbel's only means of working.  DO the players even listen to a Presser?  Do they care what he says outside the training ground?  How does he work with them day in, day out? 

For mine, we have as has been expressed endlessly a less than competitive squad.  Everyone has said this from day 1.  Added to that are injuries to the most experienced players and the need to field some very young and inexperienced players and squaddies who aren't starting quality.  Baccus Senior had a crap attitude and junior has shown his own ill-discipline.  Baccus Junior has played at National Team level for junior teams and signed a senior contract in 2017.  He should have more discipline and if he doesn't show it very soon he will be like his brother and become a solid squaddie but nothing more.  Babbel's job has become sorting out the mess and trying to find a group of players who have some character (his word, mentality) and put them to work next season with a decent spine with some experience and guts.

I actually don't find his words 'negativity'.  Nor do I interpret your words as 'negativity'.  Nor do I think my response is negativity.  There is a difference between social media whinging about everything and a forum where we are trying to have an honest conversation about what we are seeing and experiencing.  Like a few others I really find Babbel's honesty refreshing because we all think it and see it and wonder if the club recognises it.  I never listening to Popa's Pressers because he never said anything except 'we have belief' and I sometimes wondered what he believed in. Gumby's were worse - largely because of his English and repetitive use of philosophy...

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion and suspect we will see things from different perspectives, which is fine and Babbel will do what Babbel does because, as he says, 'it is what it is'.

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^^^ I pretty much said what you've said at the end there over on the post match thread.

And the rest of what you say makes perfect sense.

Hahaha - I'd actually forgotten that Popa's mantra was about self belief! I must've listened well to him!  :lol:

Although it's ingrained in me from being a teacher.

Yes...different perspectives, as you say.

:):)

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1 hour ago, mack said:

I'd guess Scott and Nizic.

I’m aware of Nizic & Fitzgerald. Could be more tbh. 

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6 hours ago, wendybr said:

................................Huh???

"...about to set in"???? :unknw:

……………………..Huh?

"............seems down the plug hole...something can be salvaged"??

Really?

Huh??????

Is that how other teams could possibly view us this season???

After losing games narrowly and/or late we got hammered by the Jets. MB felt that morale might be dropping dangerously, and he decided to shake the players group up, in an attempt to force a reaction. One can argue that his intervention was successful.

Before the game MB reminded the team that there were 30 points up for grabs. BL2 is a tight, crazy competition, and late recoveries and collapses are not unusual. He hasn't given up hope that they can start winning games - if you want a miracle then you have to believe in it. We all know that this deep into the season, considering how far we are behind Nix and City, this is a stretch, but throwing the rest of the season is not an option. We need to show up in every game, and show a performance.

The stats: Imagine the Smurfs with Brosque out all season, van der Linden, Zullo, Grant being out for most of the season, Brilliante forcing a transfer before the season starts,  Retre and O'Neill from five years ago running their midfield, Redders scoring a few own goals, le Fondre scoring 2 goals not a dozen, Ninkovic being injured midseason, de Jong playing out of position, the two midseason recruits being unfit and injury prone, and the Smurfs being forced to fill the gaps with squaddies and youth players. The results will be accordingly. That's what we have been experiencing this season, and that's what the stats aren't saying. 

 

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Good point FCB but it could be argued that much of what you point out as 'misfortune' could be put down to mismanagement and hence we are where we deserve to be. 

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I don't get why it needs to be an either/or situation with the managers approach. The managers job is to get the best out of his players, for some that's a kick up the arse and a public dressing down in the media when they don't perform, for others it's an arm around the shoulder and some constructive encouragement while publicly defending them or deflecting attention away from them. Surely a good manager can identify which players fall into which category and manage them accordingly.

Considering how small the player pool is in the A-League and the limitations with players locked in to a portion of your salary cap I can't see it being a viable long term strategy to turn away players because they don't respond well to public criticism.

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5 minutes ago, Davo said:

I don't get why it needs to be an either/or situation with the managers approach. The managers job is to get the best out of his players, for some that's a kick up the arse and a public dressing down in the media when they don't perform, for others it's an arm around the shoulder and some constructive encouragement while publicly defending them or deflecting attention away from them. Surely a good manager can identify which players fall into which category and manage them accordingly.

Considering how small the player pool is in the A-League and the limitations with players locked in to a portion of your salary cap I can't see it being a viable long term strategy to turn away players because they don't respond well to public criticism.

exactly. people love to make things black and white and over-simplified just to push their argument/agenda. 

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22 hours ago, wendybr said:

I fully agree with the sentiment....but I was also delighted to hear the term "load of tripe" used there. :lol:

Does anyone under ...say under 50?? actually know what tripe is?? 

Mmmm tripe!  Always order it at my local Chinese restaurant.  Could be likened to the Jaushua Sotirio of cuisine in my view - not too pretty, often maligned, but provides a solid good value meal. 

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3 hours ago, matty said:

Good point FCB but it could be argued that much of what you point out as 'misfortune' could be put down to mismanagement and hence we are where we deserve to be. 

Indeed!

  • There was a wave of injuries starting during season prep, and that appears to have had something to do with the AFL fitness coach which has since been replaced. This has hampered our season.
  • It appears that Ziegler is out for the season, and one has to wonder how a straightforward meniscus operation can go so wrong. It usually takes six weeks, not six months.
  • That no injury replacement was signed for Bridgey was a major issue, that's were the club should have stepped up, in my view. Besides, that he trained the way he did just about qualifies as self mutilation.
  • One can also argue that the Baccus Snr issue should not have allowed to linger, but I think it was a case of the player saying one thing and doing something else. When he finally left, the farewell notice was very close to telling him to "**** off". The club was clearly very much pissed off with him.
  • That Roly re-discovers his mojo while Oriol and Raul lose it is a mystery to me.

Something clearly went wrong, and yes, one could call it mismanagement. If and how all of this could have been foreseen and mitigated, that's a different conversation.

 

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13 minutes ago, hawks2767 said:

So between now and Saturday night after a win, 2 people have voted him out ?

Did you see what he was wearing on Saturday?

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1 hour ago, Davo said:

Did you see what he was wearing on Saturday?

Yep, club logo embossed clothing & the result changed accordingly 

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37 minutes ago, Taurus said:

Yep, club logo embossed clothing & the result changed accordingly 

Did it though? 2-0 win at Spotless against the Mariners is exactly the same result as last time, when he was dressed like a Joe Black mannequin.

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On 10/02/2019 at 1:43 PM, wendybr said:

He's a relative youngster, isn't he? :lol:

Definitely under 50...from what I gathered when he was one of the most vocal people here ??

So ...I must be mistaken about only people over 50 knowing about tripe? 

I am well under 50 and unfortunately know all about tripe....now theres a comment i never imagined making in this thread!

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23 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I’m not 50 yet but have experienced tripe, probably a northern England thing 

Yep...tripe, liver, kidneys, brawn....had that stuff most weeks..remember the old man opening the bag with tripe in and it spilling out all over the counter like a big white octopus....

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