Babbel Out?

[sonar]

32 minutes ago, Erebus said:

 

The real question is, and its getting asked more and more now, is what has he done to address those deficiencies? Highlighting them is one thing. Fixing them is another. Saying "the players are crap I need new ones" is only half the answer because you have a whole season to do something and a whole preseason for that matter.

Everything listed above is fixable via preseason and training.

Agree also with the amount of points we've thrown away. But if the above list was fixed or addressed, they wouldn't have been thrown away.

.

Yep......This is where the frustrations of the fans are at I think. I not in the #BabbelOut camp either but that doesn't mean you don't/can't question his tactics,methods  (or lack of ). Defensively my nephews u7;s would score against us

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by sonar

[Zelinsky]

45 minutes ago, Erebus said:

I agree with what you're saying and Babbel obviously has identified issues early on.

The real question is, and its getting asked more and more now, is what has he done to address those deficiencies? Highlighting them is one thing. Fixing them is another. Saying "the players are crap I need new ones" is only half the answer because you have a whole season to do something and a whole preseason for that matter.

Everything listed above is fixable via preseason and training.

Agree also with the amount of points we've thrown away. But if the above list was fixed or addressed, they wouldn't have been thrown away.

I'm not Babbel Out btw. I've gone on record (latest was on this week's ATB) that I want to see him recruit a backline because his recruits HAVE been good (injuries aside). But he has until rounds 6-8 to be top 3 next season.

Its the #NoExcusesForRealThisTime season.

He is actually saying that the current players are "his team", that he enjoys working with them, and that the group of players has collectively improved big time. It seems though that it is the young players who do the bulk of the improving, while the senior players are piling up the errors. For me the matter of debate is if Babbel is unnecessary exposing the weaknesses of some of the players. From what I've seen so far this season, I'd say that Riera is not worth the marquee money any longer, Snake not worth the long term contract, Raul not an import spot, and Elrich and Hamill not a starting player spots. But that's were we are.

Hamill is only finding himself in the soup because Ziegler got injured. Same with Elrich who picks up the pieces that Raul and Risdon leave behind. There are not enough pre seasons for these two error prone players getting to the point where they can steady the ship. We have two kids running midfield, and they are asked to grow up very fast. You can't do that in training, it takes time that we/they don't have. The biggest disappointment for me this season has been Treejack. So far we have only seen a fraction of what he can do.

Next season we have to have very different conversations. No more BS. No more sub standard crap.

 

[mack]

We've seen ~20 games of this squad, and the weaknesses are glaring obvious.

Vedran's confidence is shot, his inability to accurate estimate when to come out of his penalty area to sweep have cost us repeatedly. For whatever reason, we let Tongyik go, and this has caused us to have to rely on Tarek playing central defence with Hamill, as Tass & Ziegler have been hurt for much of the season. Llorente's positioning is woeful.

These issues alone would be hard to overcome for Guardiola or Jose, in a league like ours where replacing players who are contracted to the club is difficulty.

What can you do with such a weak defence? Our midfield hasn't been great either, our main central midfielders are getting bossed, and whoever our attacking midfielder is (Roly, Baumjohann) hasn't been good enough to help the other two midfielders be able to concentrate mostly on their defensive duties.

The "solution" for defensive weakness would be packing the defence, playing a super deep defensive line, 5 at the back with the fullbacks told not to roam too far forward. But most Australian players have never played in a 3 at the back, and when we tried it against Adelaide no-one knew what they were doing. And if you persist with a super deep 5-4-1, you're basically gifting the midfield to the opposition, and limiting your opportunities going forward. And would the fans enjoy watching us park the bus for 90 minutes? Assuming that would even work with Llorente, Tarek and Hamill involved in that backline?

[StringerBellend]

3 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Do yourself a favour..skip the Jets highlights...

Watch the highlights if you have a spare 30 seconds 

under no circumstances watch the rest of the game 

[mack]

[GunnerWanderer]

I reckon Goat made that graph cause he left our Popa 😛

[StringerBellend]

15 hours ago, mack said:

2.4 goals conceded per game

Hardly suprising we are 9th

[wendybr]

On ‎8‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 10:56 AM, Erebus said:

Babbel only ever said we were the worst team after the Fox round table and all the "experts" stated that we would be fighting at the bottom. So he said "sure, we're the worst team of the league, thats what you all said anyway"

Unfortunately I hoped it would galvanise the squad to prove the "experts" wrong. Unfortunately they are right lol.

That's absolutely unbelievable to me!

Sure.... if an opposition coach said it to a team, it could well galvanise the team to play better. Not if you hear it from your own coach.

On ‎8‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 11:32 AM, FCB said:

He did say in an interview that, once he had seen the team in training: "mama mia, if that's the best players we have, I wouldn't want to see the worst ones". Words to that effect. 

  That leaves me speechless!

 

Welcome back FCB! 

I agreed with the rest of the post which the above quote came from...but I cannot reconcile your acceptance of Babble's self defeating public comments with what I know of you! With your background in psychology, how is it part of a manager's repertoire of management skills to belittle his own team …...over and over again?

At our last meeting, you mentioned that he had got into trouble for saying what he thought too openly. Well, if I remember correctly, that was what you said of his departures from his previous clubs (and I really don't remember anything about his previous stints as a manager). But I think you said something like "He always spoke his mind, and they didn't like it!"

Am I remembering correctly....and if so...is he not in danger of making the same mistake here?

Hope you don't mind me asking.

[Paul01]

Was having breakfast out this morning and saw an article by Smithies. I gleaned from it that Baumjohann agrees with Babbel

expecting Treejack to start with balls over the top to Yeboah and Duke.

Karacan to get a red as well as Aiden O'Neill to pick up 2 yellows and Mulvey to lose it and get sent off with a spray at the 4th official.

[mack]

If the players who have failed this season, failed last season and failed in the year before that are disillusioned or upset by being told they are failures and would rather complain, sook, try to replace the manager or stop putting in effort, they don't deserve to play for the club. They can go join the Mariners where results don't matter, or they can move to Asia or Europe where that level of effort will see them have their pay stopped and replaced in 3 months.

If Vedran pulled the **** he has on the pitch and against the fans in the last couple months, in the lower leagues of Italy, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Malaysia or Thailand, he'd be locked out of the training facility, he wouldn't be getting paid and within a few weeks he'd be asking the PFA for help getting his missed pay after returning back to Australia with his tail between his legs.

Babbel doesn't seem like the type of manager who will accept mediocre effort, ignoring what he's telling the side and the players to do and just re-sign players because he can't be bothered finding new players.

[Cynth]

Wow how far the negativity has come.

I have attended pretty much every home match this year and over the season I have witnessed that the more negative the coach got, the more negative the spectators got. Around me at the last few games have been people calling out “idiot”, or worse to players, and shouting at players about how bad they are. The last two games we have booed our own team off the pitch. 

When you have a hostile crowd and a coach who doesn’t take any responsibity, just criticises, who does the team have to play for?? Their morale must be rock bottom. 

These players aren’t the best but they, for now, are Wanderers. Surely we need to support them rather than denigrate them. We are not entitled to wins and it’s clear there are much better quality teams in the A-League this year. 

I am no fan of Babbel’s decision making, I must say, and I am no fan of his criticisms of players but I would support another season where he had the chance to bring in quality players (if the club let him) and show us what he can achieve. I hope he can because I would dearly love a good season on our return to Wanderland. 

 

[Zelinsky]

On 08/02/2019 at 1:51 PM, Edinburgh said:

Goat = Swarth = neverbloom

Ahhh!

It gets confusing when people start changing names here. Last time it didn't take long form them disappear into a right wing/culture war forum. Oh, the good old days...

[Cynth]

12 minutes ago, FCB said:

Ahhh!

It gets confusing when people start changing names here. Last time it didn't take long form them disappear into a right wing/culture war forum. Oh, the good old days...

Lol. 

[Zelinsky]

52 minutes ago, wendybr said:

That's absolutely unbelievable to me!

Sure.... if an opposition coach said it to a team, it could well galvanise the team to play better. Not if you hear it from your own coach.

  That leaves me speechless!

 

Welcome back FCB! 

I agreed with the rest of the post which the above quote came from...but I cannot reconcile your acceptance of Babble's self defeating public comments with what I know of you! With your background in psychology, how is it part of a manager's repertoire of management skills to belittle his own team …...over and over again?

At our last meeting, you mentioned that he had got into trouble for saying what he thought too openly. Well, if I remember correctly, that was what you said of his departures from his previous clubs (and I really don't remember anything about his previous stints as a manager). But I think you said something like "He always spoke his mind, and they didn't like it!"

Am I remembering correctly....and if so...is he not in danger of making the same mistake here?

Hope you don't mind me asking.

Who has a background in psychology?? I certainly don't! :-)

It is a matter of debate if they feel belittled, mismanaged etc. He certainly is doing something very right with the younger players, and I dare say that the players in general feel far more supported by him and the playing group than by the public, or by the previous coaching group, for that matter (and I know that for a fact). One would have to ask them.

I mentioned further up, he's asking the players to be football pros, not HAL pros (my words, not his), and the bar for the players most certainly has been raised. I am looking forward to a BL2 level side in the HAL, where the team rocks up in every game for 90 minutes without playing goofball. I wish they'd all hurry up!

Babbel is straight down the line, and that kind of honesty/openness does not sit well with club officials in self proclaimed big clubs. He doesn't put up with BS of club officials, that's what happened in Berlin and Luzern. Hoffenheim was a different story.

 

[wendybr]

Quote

Who has a background in psychology?? I certainly don't! :-)

Oh well...it's in THAT neck of the woods that you work...even if you don't call it psychology!

Most of us could do with a bit of counselling after the traumas of the last few seasons!  (sorry I shouldn't be flippant about that)

Quote

It is a matter of debate if they feel belittled, mismanaged etc. He certainly is doing something very right with the younger players, and I dare say that the players in general feel far more supported by him and the playing group than by the public, or by the previous coaching group, for that matter (and I know that for a fact). One would have to ask them.

Well I hope you're right...

 

Quote

I mentioned further up, he's asking the players to be football pros, not HAL pros (my words, not his), and the bar for the players most certainly has been raised. I am looking forward to a BL2 level side in the HAL, where the team rocks up in every game for 90 minutes without playing goofball. I wish they'd all hurry up!

The first part of that made me raise my eyebrows...and then the last part made me smile! 

Quote

Babbel is straight down the line, and that kind of honesty/openness does not sit well with club officials in self proclaimed big clubs. He doesn't put up with BS of club officials, that's what happened in Berlin and Luzern. Hoffenheim was a different story.

Lol...it doesn't sit well with me either - but I don't think that counts!  

 

Thanks for the reply - and I'll try to hold on to some of your optimism!  

[Generator]

As rubbish as the results have been, I’d like to see Babbel remain for another season. The younger players and those that try (who aren’t defenders!) seem to be playing to a plan and I like what they are trying to achieve. A little steel and a little more ability in a few key positions, and I can see the team jumping up the table next year. 

That and I’m also generally keen to give coaches in the A-League time to assemble and guide a team of their choosing in the coaches’ preferred tactical formation and style of play. If the coaches can bring through a youth player or two each year, trade them for a profit and build a warchest for half decent international marquees, that would be great, too.

[Zelinsky]

14 hours ago, wendybr said:

Lol...it doesn't sit well with me either - but I don't think that counts!  

Thanks for the reply - and I'll try to hold on to some of your optimism!  

MB comes from an environment where non-performing players are out of a job very quickly. If you do the same thing here in Australia then you just go to a different club. There is something fundamentally wrong with this, and MB is trying to sweep it out of the door. He felt that the rot was about to set in after the Jets game, and that had to remind the players that they are professionals who play for three points every weekend - that's quite telling.

I maintain my optimism, even thought this season seems down the plug hole. Not once did we field our best 11, and yet we could/should have had results against all other teams in the comp. Throwing a season is not an option for MB and the coaching group, and they haven't entirely written it off. Maybe something can be salvaged once Treejack, Ziegler, and Bridgey return. But if we finish the season as the team no one wants to play then that will have to do.

 

 

 

 

[Bellby]

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with it, happens in every salary capped sport in Australia. We’re an isolated country with a small pool to pick from. The whole notion that players try less before of it is a load of tripe. No player wants to go from club to club, the majority have families who want to feel secure & stable in one place.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Bellby

[wendybr]

23 minutes ago, Bellby said:

 The whole notion that players try less before of it is a load of tripe. 

I fully agree with the sentiment....but I was also delighted to hear the term "load of tripe" used there. 

Does anyone under ...say under 50?? actually know what tripe is?? 

[wendybr]

3 hours ago, FCB said:

MB comes from an environment where non-performing players are out of a job very quickly. If you do the same thing here in Australia then you just go to a different club. There is something fundamentally wrong with this, and MB is trying to sweep it out of the door.
He felt that the rot was about to set in after the Jets game, 

................................Huh???

"...about to set in"???? 

Quote

I maintain my optimism, even thought this season seems down the plug hole.... Maybe something can be salvaged once Treejack, Ziegler, and Bridgey return.

……………………..Huh?

"............seems down the plug hole...something can be salvaged"??

Really?

Quote

But if we finish the season as the team no one wants to play then that will have to do.

Huh??????

Is that how other teams could possibly view us this season???

[Benched]

17 minutes ago, wendybr said:

I fully agree with the sentiment....but I was also delighted to hear the term "load of tripe" used there. 

Does anyone under ...say under 50?? actually know what tripe is?? 

Yep, my Mum used to feed me that with white sauce. Cows stomach lining. There's nothing tasty about it except the sauce!

[wendybr]

5 minutes ago, Benched said:

Yep, my Mum used to feed me that with white sauce. Cows stomach lining. There's nothing tasty about it except the sauce!

Ugh! Yes.

PS Nice to see you back for your bi-annual visit Benched!  

 

[Taurus]

27 minutes ago, Benched said:

Yep, my Mum used to feed me that with white sauce. Cows stomach lining. There's nothing tasty about it except the sauce!

Teach said under 50 

[wendybr]

33 minutes ago, Taurus said:

Teach said under 50 

He's a relative youngster, isn't he? 

Definitely under 50...from what I gathered when he was one of the most vocal people here ??

So ...I must be mistaken about only people over 50 knowing about tripe? 

[marron]

If I told you i didn't know what tripe was, it would be a load of bollocks.

[Benched]

1 hour ago, Taurus said:

Teach said under 50 

Geez mate, ease up, still have a few years to go.

[BoyFromTheWest]

3 hours ago, wendybr said:

................................Huh???

"...about to set in"???? 

……………………..Huh?

"............seems down the plug hole...something can be salvaged"??

Really?

Huh??????

Is that how other teams could possibly view us this season???

So Wendy, you are saying that the team is crap, aren't good players, are hopeless and a lost cause this year??!  Isn't that pretty negative?  Or is it the truth?  Shouldn't we follow a different example of responding to the players than MB is accused of?

He calls it as it is.  He talks to the team through the week - numerous times, according to hi Presser.  He explains why he says what he does.  He sets a level of professionalism and expectation that is higher than most HAL players have been used to.  Some will not like it and others will lift.  Quite frankly, people on this forum do not want sub-standard players turning.  We want WS ethics in our team - players who work their guts out on and off the field, who play with grit and and tough. 

I understand your comments re: encouragement and being positive...  But I also feel the frustration that professional footballers need to be treated with kid gloves.  When MB quoted the press and 'experts' early in the season it was to ridicule them, not his team.  He also made some very real assessments of HAL that just about every person on this forum has agreed with or stated at some time.  HAL has too many restraints and keeps things average but that doesn't mean we can't raise the bar and set higher standards for ourselves.  Popa tried, with mixed results across his 5 years.  Gombau was sacked for a whole range of stuff he did in the background, in the dressing room - not in public. It was less about results and more about crap, abusive team management.  Take Roly.  Gumby told him he wouldn't play.  Roly asks what he needs to do to improve and play Gumby's style...  Gumby says 'Nothing - its personal!'   MB says ROly is a good player but is is loose and so I have put him on the wing to cover that.  Roly has been very good these past weeks - playing in the centre.  He has largely given what we hoped and expected - after MB challenged him.  That is the response a mature player (or one who wants to learn and improve) will give.  No player, so far has come out and stated that MB is terrible, abusive, lacking...  They seem to respect him - unlike Gumby.

Sorry - enough rant.  Continue normal programming.

[StringerBellend]

I’m not 50 yet but have experienced tripe, probably a northern England thing 

[sonar]

28 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

So Wendy, you are saying that the team is crap, aren't good players, are hopeless and a lost cause this year??!  Isn't that pretty negative?  Or is it the truth?  Shouldn't we follow a different example of responding to the players than MB is accused of?

He calls it as it is.  He talks to the team through the week - numerous times, according to hi Presser.  He explains why he says what he does.  He sets a level of professionalism and expectation that is higher than most HAL players have been used to.  Some will not like it and others will lift.  Quite frankly, people on this forum do not want sub-standard players turning.  We want WS ethics in our team - players who work their guts out on and off the field, who play with grit and and tough. 

I understand your comments re: encouragement and being positive...  But I also feel the frustration that professional footballers need to be treated with kid gloves.  When MB quoted the press and 'experts' early in the season it was to ridicule them, not his team.  He also made some very real assessments of HAL that just about every person on this forum has agreed with or stated at some time.  HAL has too many restraints and keeps things average but that doesn't mean we can't raise the bar and set higher standards for ourselves.  Popa tried, with mixed results across his 5 years.  Gombau was sacked for a whole range of stuff he did in the background, in the dressing room - not in public. It was less about results and more about crap, abusive team management.  Take Roly.  Gumby told him he wouldn't play.  Roly asks what he needs to do to improve and play Gumby's style...  Gumby says 'Nothing - its personal!'   MB says ROly is a good player but is is loose and so I have put him on the wing to cover that.  Roly has been very good these past weeks - playing in the centre.  He has largely given what we hoped and expected - after MB challenged him.  That is the response a mature player (or one who wants to learn and improve) will give.  No player, so far has come out and stated that MB is terrible, abusive, lacking...  They seem to respect him - unlike Gumby.

Sorry - enough rant.  Continue normal programming.

Agree with this...... but the results on the field are saying something else.

During the commentary of last nights game Simon Hill gave out a stat that was extraordinary..........I'm happy to be corrected if I have this wrong but .......we have been in front and then have gone on to lose or draw 16 times this season. That's an amazing amount of games to be leading and then capitulate..........

[Wanderboy]

Great post Boy From the West.

If players today cannot handle a few home truths, they are not worthy of playing at the highest level.

I fully support Babbel's approach. None of his criticism of the players has been false or un-true. We'd all see through that if it was.

I'm sick of entitled players of this generation. Some will react well to criticism and take it on board and work hard to improve their game. Others will not react well, and will have a bitch about it. It is the former of those two groups that I want playing for our club. Roly is a perfect example. He probably copped the worst, almost embarrassing for him, criticism from Babbel publicly. What has he done? Clearly, he has worked harder to improve his game, and he has.

Personally, I think it's amazingly refreshing to actually hear a coach tell it how it is, and then, go on and deal with the problems behind the dressing room door. Sure, we haven't progressed as much as we would have liked this season, but I only see positive vibes moving forward with Babbel in charge. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Wanderboy