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ManfredSchaefer

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2 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

 

Different meetings gents? Maybe the annual Members Forum has minutes which are on the website somewhere. I agree with Manny, there was no indication of any minutes on Tuesday night. And even if there were, I doubt they would be published the same way.

I don;t think some of the things that were said by the suits would be publishable lol. Comments about the cops, Soulless, the FFA and the Campbelltown Ghosts if they got out could cause quite the furore .

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4 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

I don;t think some of the things that were said by the suits would be publishable lol. Comments about the cops, Soulless, the FFA and the Campbelltown Ghosts if they got out could cause quite the furore .

I was trying not to be quite so blunt!

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12 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Different meetings gents? Maybe the annual Members Forum has minutes which are on the website somewhere

He said it at the members forum but he was talking about the members committee at the time. Now that I’m the only one that recounts it, perhaps I imagined it.

8 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

I don;t think some of the things that were said by the suits would be publishable lol. Comments about the cops, Soulless, the FFA and the Campbelltown Ghosts if they got out could cause quite the furore .

You’ll find that minutes of meetings can generally be just point form with minimal detail (a few sentences giving context maybe). Never meant to be a detailed account of the meeting but a good way summarrise things especially when it comes to action points.

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On 26/02/2019 at 11:30 PM, ManfredSchaefer said:

The Members Committee is a group of Members who meet with the suits to discuss with them what is going on with the club. It was first suggested during the members forum at Marconi back in 2017 (I think). There has been a committee in place beforehand, however it may have had only limited meetings in previous incarnations. There was an email circulated a few weeks back asking for nominees for the 2019 edition...

Have to say that the actual 'mission' of the committee is very hazy. I don't believe the club sees it as an advocacy group for members, helping the suits develop policies and protocols. Also I don't believe many of us (if any) want to be that. Perhaps its more akin to a focus group for marketing purposes.

That's my take anyways.

I imagine that they get drips & drabs from emails or informal conversations but it is a great way for members to have input, provide feedback on issues & club to sound out the fans on certain ideas across a mix of membership groups.

I think you’ve pretty much covered it, the members are always going to have limited input. Not to say that the club won’t listen but more in regards to implementing fan recommendations. This won’t change until some sort of fan ownership can be established but we as a collective don’t appear to have the appetite for it.

On 27/02/2019 at 12:13 AM, ManfredSchaefer said:

I'm not 100% sure that is the reading I'd take from what I heard (and perhaps I misunderstood or misrepresented what was said & meant). The way I suspect the decision to go with the two new franchises is seen by our suits was they used big dollars waved at the FFA at the last minute to outbid their rivals. Throw in the influence of Foxtel & the 'must go to Sydney/Melbourne' agenda and I believe that WSW management consider both new ventures dodgy cash grabs with $$$ offers being thrown at the FFA.

It was always going to be about money for the FFA (1) the FFA coffers are empty, they are in desperate need of money to fund the game (2) Most of the license fee went to cover the salary cap for the years remaining of the tv deal (3) The clubs wanting some left over cash for the centralized costs of running the league.

The clubs have already stated publicly they were unhappy with the way that the FFA ran the expansion process. They plan on running the expansion process in the future in a way that identifies areas of need rather than who pays the most.

20 hours ago, FCB said:

No, it wasn't just that. It turned into an Earth quake that shook the WSW community at large, and certainly rocked the club. By smuggling the banner into the ground, the RBB lost the trust of club officials. That you don't seem to appreciate just how much trouble the banner caused behind the scenes is part of the problem.

It may be the case that many WSW supporters didn’t understand understand why offense occurred but it was the public fall out that caused the most damage. The league was hammered, the FFA was hammered & the negative press/pr for the club all took its toll.

19 hours ago, stavup said:

The price gouging is vile...

Have prices been released I haven’t seen anything?

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In regards to minutes & agenda of members committee meetings, I’ve found a link that has them plus a brief explanation & charter.

https://www.wanderland.com.au/members-committee/

Can you guys chase up for the 2018-2019 season?

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16 hours ago, Wanderboy said:

Yes. We are just merely tenants. We have to play by the landlords rules.

In saying that, we should never hesitate to kick up a stink if warranted.

This is another issue I’d like raised at the meeting. Stadium management will be run by the same mob as ANZ stadium. I personally had a horribly average experience at ANZ stadium but I know many that have had a horrible time.

A few issues to raise: The stadium management were unaware of how negative our stadium experience at ANZ has been over the last 3 years. Did the club ever raise this with stadium management?

Stadium’s use & employment of security guards. I think it’s imperative that they get this right, much in the same way with police I think it’s important to have continuity over the season (not chop & change) & to weed out overzealous power tripping security that seem more interested in making there mark rather than using a bit of common sense.

In the same way, stewards using common sense too. Things like: not allowing people to move under cover (in non corporate scenario) when there are empty seats, asking someone to move a bag over and sit in there seat when there are 80,000 empty seats: an employee of stadium management personally attacking a member for a genuine grievance raised online. Others could probably give other scenarios but these types of issues only added to a really negative experience at the stadium. I just hope this won’t continue under the same management at the new Parramatta stadium.

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28 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

In regards to minutes & agenda of members committee meetings, I’ve found a link that has them plus a brief explanation & charter.

https://www.wanderland.com.au/members-committee/

Can you guys chase up for the 2018-2019 season?

Thanks for this mate

One thing that I didn't raise in my first post in this thread was the size of the committee...there were about 15+ members including some that were on the previous committee. To my mind the group was too large with no opportunity for us to meet before hand, talk about what we were doing, learn from each other etc. That's why I said it feels more like a marketing focus group than a body aimed at substantively acting on the members' behalf to give them a voice in club policies and procedures.

I may be of beam here but I am concerned that we are in essence an echo chamber for the suits. They will tell us what they want us to hear, we will respond and perhaps disseminate what we hear, but when we give them feedback either it'll be fragmentary, highly subjective and probably not integrated into the operations of the club.

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8 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

I may be of beam here but I am concerned that we are in essence an echo chamber for the suits. They will tell us what they want us to hear, we will respond and perhaps disseminate what we hear, but when we give them feedback either it'll be fragmentary, highly subjective and probably not integrated into the operations of the club.

My sentiments exactly but just like the poll asking us where we’d like to wander for 3 seasons, at least it appears like they are trying.

48 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Not to say that the club won’t listen but more in regards to implementing fan recommendations. This won’t change until some sort of fan ownership can be established but we as a collective don’t appear to have the appetite for it.

The other issue with these types of settings is that it can easily get hijacked & sidetracked often by topics & questions that are for all intents & purposes useless. It reminded of two examples (1) One of the first member forums where we got all sorts of random stuff like “why does this club only sign Croatian players”. It only takes a few of these questions before 5 minutes turns into 30. (2) A focus group run by WSU where they wanted to talk about Spotless stadium & our thoughts before the move. We spent half the time talking about how 1 guy was unhappy that the field was going to be moved as close to the RBB as possible because it would ruin his view on the other end of the stadium. This was brought up a handful of times & carried on and on and on...

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11 hours ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

The problems with managing relationships with seccos and coppers go beyond venue management and ownership. First off, as I said in my previous post about how the LAC & Police Farce operate, they are going to do what they want based on a combination of the political agenda set down by the government and their own internal political attitudes, career drives and personal biases. We could own the Australian equivalent of Wembley or the Bernabeu and employ every single secco in the entire Australian security industry yet if the police said 'We're going to send in the riot squad and 100 mounted police' under the current political structures there'd be no comeback whatsoever. Remember the fight we had over what the Parra LAC wanted to do re active support with Dastyari and Leyonhjelm grilling the cops in committee meetings? The only way we got the result we wanted was because a couple of pollies backed us and more importantly the media was on our side (miracles do happen).

I don;t want to sound like an apologist for the club and the suits, and I've had my moments pissed off with things they have said and done. However there are far too many dumb pricks in our supporter base who think that whatever happens the club can and will defend us. Ferchristsake we come from one of if not THE most maligned region of Australia, with a major component of our supporter base being non-Anglo, supporting a club playing a sport that has the most hated history in this country. No one is going to make it easy for the Wanderers as a business and sporting entity to win over the politicians, the community, the police, other businesses, the media etc. Sure, there are times that the suits make some serious errors (I am not 100% sure what we have paid financially and otherwise to help get a new stadium hasn't been too expensive in both the short and long term). However it's no wonder we have a chairman with no hair...some of the dumbshit that happens in the supporter base, or the way the FFA handle things, and of course the bilious vitriol thrown at the Wanderers by the media and security industry...it must be like walking a tightrope. How can the club have a hope in hell in appeasing everyone's expectations re security and the police when they are just one step up higher in the dunny bowl than us?

Sorry if this sounds like an OTT rant, but if there is one thing the last 7 years have taught me it's that we don't exist in a black and white world when it comes to the Wanderers as a club and as a community One of the constant and most problematic myths many in our supporter base has is that the club must do all it can to support us. Aside from the fact that they have extremely limited capabilities which never gets enough serious consideration it also gives dickheads the excuse to act like prats and then bitch about 'the suits don't care'.

Argh...I need a beer. :xmad:

Yeah but m8 Lederer is a tight arse so you're wrong and the club sucks and should allow it's fans to do whatever they want and tell the police where to go. Get with the trend! You're not a true football fan hanging out with those suits, Judas! Against modern football!!!!!

In all seriousness, that is the most perfect summation of this club and its fans. WSW is becoming infamous for its whining fans. My new favourite complaint is the mass outcry over membership increases despite moving into the best football stadium in the country lol

JT cops alot of flack for the state of things right now but are there even enough hours in the day for him to do any work on progressing the club once he puts out all these fires?

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24 minutes ago, hughsey said:

Yeah but m8 Lederer is a tight arse so you're wrong and the club sucks and should allow it's fans to do whatever they want and tell the police where to go. Get with the trend! You're not a true football fan hanging out with those suits, Judas! Against modern football!!!!!

In all seriousness, that is the most perfect summation of this club and its fans. WSW is becoming infamous for its whining fans. My new favourite complaint is the mass outcry over membership increases despite moving into the best football stadium in the country lol

JT cops alot of flack for the state of things right now but are there even enough hours in the day for him to do any work on progressing the club once he puts out all these fires?

I saw a post on the RBF Facebook page that 'the club needs to engage with the RBB'. FFS they have had meeting after meeting with whoever fronts up and claims some kind of leadership role of that segment of our active support. had them come to fan forums at Marconi, phone calls, eials etc etc etc. There were at least 3 people in the members' committee with RBB experience current or past.

Just like the problematic, diverse and fractured context within which the club operates, so too does it go with active support. That's why I have no sympathy with those who look at any part of the Wanderers' community who believe the RBB and/or club is always right, or always wrong. The Wanderers as an entity is far more complex than any binary construct where chants are taken as eternal truths and emails from the club are infallible edicts, or the RBB are wog hooligans and the suits backstabbing money grubbers. Taking as a case in point, the increased membership costs are going to sting and will be a burden, and there is already plenty of resistance to the subordination of the entire western stand at Wanderland 2.0 to non-WSW faithful. However with more information and less prejudice the situation becomes more understandable. Perhaps not totally accepted, but with far less grief than if people sit in their trenches throwing ideological bombs over the parapet and claiming they are 'defending what it means to be a REAL Wanderer, that the oppo are all flogs'.

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2 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

My sentiments exactly but just like the poll asking us where we’d like to wander for 3 seasons, at least it appears like they are trying.

The other issue with these types of settings is that it can easily get hijacked & sidetracked often by topics & questions that are for all intents & purposes useless. It reminded of two examples (1) One of the first member forums where we got all sorts of random stuff like “why does this club only sign Croatian players”. It only takes a few of these questions before 5 minutes turns into 30. (2) A focus group run by WSU where they wanted to talk about Spotless stadium & our thoughts before the move. We spent half the time talking about how 1 guy was unhappy that the field was going to be moved as close to the RBB as possible because it would ruin his view on the other end of the stadium. This was brought up a handful of times & carried on and on and on...

Not even a hint of that sort of problem occurring on Tuesday. 

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2 hours ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

Thanks for this mate

One thing that I didn't raise in my first post in this thread was the size of the committee...there were about 15+ members including some that were on the previous committee. To my mind the group was too large with no opportunity for us to meet before hand, talk about what we were doing, learn from each other etc. That's why I said it feels more like a marketing focus group than a body aimed at substantively acting on the members' behalf to give them a voice in club policies and procedures.

I may be of beam here but I am concerned that we are in essence an echo chamber for the suits. They will tell us what they want us to hear, we will respond and perhaps disseminate what we hear, but when we give them feedback either it'll be fragmentary, highly subjective and probably not integrated into the operations of the club.

There are 21 committee members listed on the agenda for Tuesday plus 2 absentees plus the club reps. 

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6 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

There are 21 committee members listed on the agenda for Tuesday plus 2 absentees plus the club reps. 

Should've referred t the agenda sitting in front of me on my desk as I type this :smurfnono:

 

Way too many IMO.

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50 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

I saw a post on the RBF Facebook page that 'the club needs to engage with the RBB'. FFS they have had meeting after meeting with whoever fronts up and claims some kind of leadership role of that segment of our active support. had them come to fan forums at Marconi, phone calls, eials etc etc etc. There were at least 3 people in the members' committee with RBB experience current or past.

Just like the problematic, diverse and fractured context within which the club operates, so too does it go with active support. That's why I have no sympathy with those who look at any part of the Wanderers' community who believe the RBB and/or club is always right, or always wrong. The Wanderers as an entity is far more complex than any binary construct where chants are taken as eternal truths and emails from the club are infallible edicts, or the RBB are wog hooligans and the suits backstabbing money grubbers. Taking as a case in point, the increased membership costs are going to sting and will be a burden, and there is already plenty of resistance to the subordination of the entire western stand at Wanderland 2.0 to non-WSW faithful. However with more information and less prejudice the situation becomes more understandable. Perhaps not totally accepted, but with far less grief than if people sit in their trenches throwing ideological bombs over the parapet and claiming they are 'defending what it means to be a REAL Wanderer, that the oppo are all flogs'.

Lol RBF have no contacts within the RBB leadership group and their hot takes on their FB page/articles are always cringe worthy with no substance or research behind them at all.

re: new membership prices. Everything I've seen on Twitter has been positive. People expected a massive hike in prices and there were rather reasonable considering the new stadium. I always had faith that our memberships wouldn't go up too much because the club would be shooting themselves in the foot.

eg RBB Foundation membership next year is $300. 13 home games means $23 per game. That's cheaper than going to any away game.

The GA Black and White is even cheaper than that. Those hating on the Western Stand need to take their anger elsewhere because the club didn't design nor fund this stadium. It sucks you're not on the Western Stand, but have YOU SEEN THE PICS of the inside of WSS? Every seat will be amazing.

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3 minutes ago, Erebus said:

Lol RBF have no contacts within the RBB leadership group and their hot takes on their FB page/articles are always cringe worthy with no substance or research behind them at all.

re: new membership prices. Everything I've seen on Twitter has been positive. People expected a massive hike in prices and there were rather reasonable considering the new stadium. I always had faith that our memberships wouldn't go up too much because the club would be shooting themselves in the foot.

eg RBB Foundation membership next year is $300. 13 home games means $23 per game. That's cheaper than going to any away game.

The GA Black and White is even cheaper than that. Those hating on the Western Stand need to take their anger elsewhere because the club didn't design nor fund this stadium. It sucks you're not on the Western Stand, but have YOU SEEN THE PICS of the inside of WSS? Every seat will be amazing.

496732373_1280x720.jpg

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12 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

We did go overtime thanks to some old fat bald prick irritating JT...:rofl:

To be fair - you didn't irritate him - you just asked questions about things that are the bane of his life and get his dander up!

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1 minute ago, Edinburgh said:

To be fair - you didn't irritate him - you just asked questions about things that are the bane of his life and get his dander up!

Mate I wasn't there for a love-in. Though I did enjoy the feed...

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On 26 February 2019 at 11:30 PM, ManfredSchaefer said:

The Members Committee is a group of Members who meet with the suits to discuss with them what is going on with the club. It was first suggested during the members forum at Marconi back in 2017 (I think). There has been a committee in place beforehand, however it may have had only limited meetings in previous incarnations. There was an email circulated a few weeks back asking for nominees for the 2019 edition...

Have to say that the actual 'mission' of the committee is very hazy. I don't believe the club sees it as an advocacy group for members, helping the suits develop policies and protocols. Also I don't believe many of us (if any) want to be that. Perhaps its more akin to a focus group for marketing purposes.

That's my take anyways.

My understanding: the purpose of the original group was to capture the input of the various member flavours in a face-to-face environment. The club hoped to keep the finger on the pulse with that initiative.

The main subject last year was the developments around the new ground, and the club kept the group informed. 

The minutes were informal, no minutes were taken. Those present would at times be privy to a good dose of unfiltered information from the club. It was never clarified if the content of these conversations was confidential or not. But with Manfred at the table that question appears to have been answered - beware the keyboard warrior...

Many don't like this or that about the club, and this or that club official for this or that reason. Once you sat in that room you understand that the club says in public what they can say. When you talk to these guys they are very transparent, but naturally won't give any transfer details away. 

 

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2 hours ago, Erebus said:

Lol RBF have no contacts within the RBB leadership group and their hot takes on their FB page/articles are always cringe worthy with no substance or research behind them at all.

re: new membership prices. Everything I've seen on Twitter has been positive. People expected a massive hike in prices and there were rather reasonable considering the new stadium. I always had faith that our memberships wouldn't go up too much because the club would be shooting themselves in the foot.

eg RBB Foundation membership next year is $300. 13 home games means $23 per game. That's cheaper than going to any away game.

The GA Black and White is even cheaper than that. Those hating on the Western Stand need to take their anger elsewhere because the club didn't design nor fund this stadium. It sucks you're not on the Western Stand, but have YOU SEEN THE PICS of the inside of WSS? Every seat will be amazing.

Don’t go near Facebook then hahaha

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1 hour ago, FCB said:

My understanding: the purpose of the original group was to capture the input of the various member flavours in a face-to-face environment. The club hoped to keep the finger on the pulse with that initiative.

The main subject last year was the developments around the new ground, and the club kept the group informed. 

The minutes were informal, no minutes were taken. Those present would at times be privy to a good dose of unfiltered information from the club. It was never clarified if the content of these conversations was confidential or not. But with Manfred at the table that question appears to have been answered - beware the keyboard warrior...

Many don't like this or that about the club, and this or that club official for this or that reason. Once you sat in that room you understand that the club says in public what they can say. When you talk to these guys they are very transparent, but naturally won't give any transfer details away. 

 

As far as I’m concerned (and happy to be proven wrong or even be told to leave the committee if it’s a prob) there is no binding confidentiality agreement in place. If the club wants to use the committee as an echo chamber then they need to stipulate that we aren’t to talk about what we see or hear.

Going by what we’ve all seen and heard the biggest problem the suits have is how they communicate with the membership, and how the membership is ignorant (either wilfully or not) of the challenges the club faces. If they want to deliver on what they continually say both formally and informally about the members and the community, they can’t just ask a bunch of cherry-picked people what they think and then consign the discussion to a semi-hidden link on the web site. 

After three years in the wilderness with membership more disengaged than ever before it’s crucial the suits do more than just play marketing games. This is a golden opportunity to do just that.

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21 minutes ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

As far as I’m concerned (and happy to be proven wrong or even be told to leave the committee if it’s a prob) there is no binding confidentiality agreement in place. If the club wants to use the committee as an echo chamber then they need to stipulate that we aren’t to talk about what we see or hear.

 

Looking forward to the live coverage of the handcuffs clicking, you being walked off the premises, and your membership card being torn up...

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5 minutes ago, FCB said:

Looking forward to the live coverage of the handcuffs clicking, you being walked off the premises, and your membership card being torn up...

Well at least I’ll have done more in bridging the gaping chasm between the suits & the membership than those who were there last year and have communicated nothing about what has been going on.

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Perhaps you should contact the club Manfred to confirm but much of this information you can glean from WSW management via informal discussions. You throw some crumbs around FCB, so do the ATB boys on the podcast which is very similar to what has been discussed on this thread. Nothing has been said publicly via the main stream or even football media but the information does come out in one form or the other via unofficial channels like this forum & other means.

I have to 100% agree with you Manfred, much of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes the club doesn’t & can’t say publicly but they should be communicating it with the WSW member base. The members committee & threads like are a great channel to facilitate the passing of this information to the wider membership base.

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1 hour ago, ManfredSchaefer said:

Well at least I’ll have done more in bridging the gaping chasm between the suits & the membership than those who were there last year and have communicated nothing about what has been going on.

Well, they did, but in disguise. In fact, the disguise was so good that the information provided was not believed. Scandalous! 

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13 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

This is another issue I’d like raised at the meeting. Stadium management will be run by the same mob as ANZ stadium. I personally had a horribly average experience at ANZ stadium but I know many that have had a horrible time.

A few issues to raise: The stadium management were unaware of how negative our stadium experience at ANZ has been over the last 3 years. Did the club ever raise this with stadium management?

Stadium’s use & employment of security guards. I think it’s imperative that they get this right, much in the same way with police I think it’s important to have continuity over the season (not chop & change) & to weed out overzealous power tripping security that seem more interested in making there mark rather than using a bit of common sense.

In the same way, stewards using common sense too. Things like: not allowing people to move under cover (in non corporate scenario) when there are empty seats, asking someone to move a bag over and sit in there seat when there are 80,000 empty seats: an employee of stadium management personally attacking a member for a genuine grievance raised online. Others could probably give other scenarios but these types of issues only added to a really negative experience at the stadium. I just hope this won’t continue under the same management at the new Parramatta stadium.

The club are well aware of how strict security and event staff were at ANZ. My understanding is that it was a club directive to strictly police to encourage people to upgrade their memberships for the new stadium. 

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When it comes to terrible communication it's not just the club but Australian football in general.

I remember a while ago the Fox Football podcast had Greg O'Rourke on and asked him a whole lot of questions about things that the fanbase were accusing the FFA of. He claimed that most of it was incorrect and tried to set the record straight, painting a completely different picture of what's going on. Surely he knows what the prevailing sentiment is among the fans for most issues (they usually get told without asking in the replies to most social media posts) yet they never seem to go far enough to communicate their side of the story.

It seems to be the same with WSW. The fans are furious about certain issues and it isn't until we hear from other fans who attended these members meetings that the response turns to "oh, well fair enough then".

You're always going to have knobs on facebook and twitter who want to whinge regardless, however if even people on this forum (who are generally well informed) are finding out new information then how is the general fanbase expected to know the facts?

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also a huge help when people actually relay the information received in these forum/meeting thingys to other members and mediums rather than just acting coy about it and like what you heard is for your ears only. 

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