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Australian Current Affairs Thread (not a Politics Thread) lol

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10 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

HHHHmmmmm don't agree, we need some reform, and we need to charge more tax ... but those franking credits were crazy policy.

 

It effected many many many in fact ten's if not hundreds of thousands people not that well off.....they should have put some kind of weighting as is in income tax i.e your pay no tax on the first 18, 001 and get tax credits for the next little bit so you can effectively earn in the low 20's with little to no tax, higher income is taxed higher. Meaning they could have picked a figure under which people still kept their franking credits and a sliding scale after that.

 

Sadly the ALP thought they had it won and did little campaigning.

 

I wanted a change in government based on Climate Change and  the Libs almost total disregard for it... however the ALP ran IMO a very flawed campaign, I struggle to remember anything exciting they said or planned. They failed to attack the Libs often when they had the chance and had them against the wall but failed to do so... a good example was when they said 50% of cars sold in Australia should be electric and the Libs attacked them and mocked them and said things like the socialist mod will force you to give up your ute etc... 

 

There reply if their was one was weak as piss..... when they could have blown the libs out of the water, as IMO by 2030 close to 100% of cars made in the world will have electric motors .

 

I am mad at the ALP because they really stuffed up big time, they should have walked that election in...

 

Another was their inability to tell Queensland they where not going to shut down the coal industry, and create thousands of new jobs with gas pipelines and thousand more with alternative energy systems. I don't want to sit and say if they had not done X or done Y ... The ALP were unbelievably dumb and IMO there leadership team should be flogged and retired...

Agree with most of that. The last bit is a bit harsh. Their platform didn't have any Labor supporters expressing toooo much doubt, from what I can recall.

The Libs are pragmatic, and lie/scare  their way in, over and over and over again.

And Labor are too idealistic/naive.

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Dunno if I ever mentioned it but my grandfather (the Dundee fan) whilst living in Greenacre was pretty well known amongst Labor people in the 60's and 70's, he even got a young ambitious PJ Keating into the Party.

They returned the favour by naming a street there after him, that's not important it's just a bragging point lol

Thing is the Labor party have strayed so far from the party they were back then that they lost their spine. People deserted them when they started pandering to The Greens.

Next 2 years you'll see a return to those values they stood for back then, mark my words.

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29 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Agree with most of that. The last bit is a bit harsh. Their platform didn't have any Labor supporters expressing toooo much doubt, from what I can recall.

The Libs are pragmatic, and lie their way in, over and over and over again.

And Labor are too idealistic/naive.

The ALP is torn with say the union Blinky Bill and the Rudd pragmatic... the ALP IMO has no idea who it is are they inner city green or outer suburb fight for the poor...

This is the same issue that torn the libs apart the hard right TA mob and the MT moderates .... 

The ALP lacked a vision and failed to lead the conversation in bring the two together and as for coal, they where to timid to say coal had to be done away with.... but over time ... this inability meant the inner city mod where plased but not happy and Queensland was between not happy and angry...  

The ALP needs work out what it stands for and explain it in great detail and argue their case ... 

 

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11 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Elections are no longer about presenting a vision and seeking to lead a nation - well. It is about winning and when you win, life returns to business as usual and little happens until next time you both come out to fight each other to 'win the election.'  Howard raised this to an art form.  He was good at winning elections through generating fear and division.  Beasley was a decent bloke who could never win against a much fiercer competitor who left nothing on the field.  Abbott had the same determination to win - he couldn't lead a nation for love or money, but that wasn't what it was about to Abbott.  When he lost the leadership it was still about winning - this time his fury turned on his own party.  When he and Gillard went head to head and it was effectively a draw, he courted the independents (Oakshot...) and his pitch was that he wanted to win and be PM and he would give them whatever they wanted.  That's why they sided with Gillard because she wanted to do something for Australia, not herself (well probably less for herself and more for Australia than Abbott).

I find it an insult that people like Palmer can actually participate when they are nothing criminals - if you or I did what he did, we wouldn't be free to run around spending money and courting stupid politicians to support our outrageous desires.  He has now come out seeking approval to build a bigger mine on the back of Adani. His $60 Million investment in this election was really about keeping Labor out of government so he could get approval to mine the crap out of Queensland - and they are too stupid too see this.  He ripped off his former employees, the stupid government bailed him out, backed him in the election and now will be expected to give him approval so he can make billions, rip off workers, abuse the land and shaft everyone but himself!  Enough rant.

I used to believe that most people went into politics for the betterment of society and the public, at least at the outset. Having now spent too many years on the inside of the process, I am convinced that that has not been the case since Howard's ascension. I've met people who have entered political life purely for what they can get out of it personally, so my earlier view of "altruism corrupted" has been replaced by one of "greedy corruption".

It says a lot for the type of people who are in the game and for whom the winning is the most important thing, be that with lies or outright deceit - corflutes designed to deceive, HTVs purportedly representing other parties and directing preferences in the opposite direction. Quite a sick system inhabited in a not-insubstantial degree by unprincipled people. It's about egos and pockets, and scaring voters into thinking their pockets are going to be picked by the other side.

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6 hours ago, wendybr said:

He opened Christmas Island when it was uneeded, spent millions and millions and now talks about the urgency to close it and of course with it the Medevac bill. But of course the lack of principles and fiscal irresponsibility of that is completely irrelevant to right wing voters. As long as they keep their franking credits. 

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8 hours ago, Midfielder said:

HHHHmmmmm don't agree, we need some reform, and we need to charge more tax ... but those franking credits were crazy policy.

 

It effected many many many in fact ten's if not hundreds of thousands people not that well off.....they should have put some kind of weighting as is in income tax i.e your pay no tax on the first 18, 001 and get tax credits for the next little bit so you can effectively earn in the low 20's with little to no tax, higher income is taxed higher. Meaning they could have picked a figure under which people still kept their franking credits and a sliding scale after that.

 

Sadly the ALP thought they had it won and did little campaigning.

 

I wanted a change in government based on Climate Change and  the Libs almost total disregard for it... however the ALP ran IMO a very flawed campaign, I struggle to remember anything exciting they said or planned. They failed to attack the Libs often when they had the chance and had them against the wall but failed to do so... a good example was when they said 50% of cars sold in Australia should be electric and the Libs attacked them and mocked them and said things like the socialist mod will force you to give up your ute etc... 

 

There reply if their was one was weak as piss..... when they could have blown the libs out of the water, as IMO by 2030 close to 100% of cars made in the world will have electric motors .

 

I am mad at the ALP because they really stuffed up big time, they should have walked that election in...

 

Another was their inability to tell Queensland they where not going to shut down the coal industry, and create thousands of new jobs with gas pipelines and thousand more with alternative energy systems. I don't want to sit and say if they had not done X or done Y ... The ALP were unbelievably dumb and IMO there leadership team should be flogged and retired...

So you're mad at tha ALP but not Clive Palmer or the Coalition for their dishonest tax tax tax and Death tax campaign. ?  

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Just now, sonar said:

So you're mad at tha ALP but not Clive Palmer or the Coalition for their dishonest tax tax tax and Death tax campaign. ?  

Thats not what I said, 

You can bury your head in the sand if you think their is ever going to be an election where one side does not lie and paint things that are not true... The ALP in the last election said the Libs plan to sell medicare and ran a huge scare thingy...

Like it or not the ALP ran IMO the worst campaign at a federal election in my living memory...  

 

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5 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

Thats not what I said, 

You can bury your head in the sand if you think their is ever going to be an election where one side does not lie and paint things that are not true... The ALP in the last election said the Libs plan to sell medicare and ran a huge scare thingy...

Like it or not the ALP ran IMO the worst campaign at a federal election in my living memory...  

 

As a traditionally just left-of-centre voter I have to agree with you here  - given the disastrous disunity in the coalition ranks only a few months back, it is astonishing that Labor managed to lose this one - definite shades of 1993 and Keating v Hewson, albeit without the birthday cake. Combination of too may policies and too little campaigning.

Where I disagree with you is that Labor didn't have sufficient policy agenda - given their recent history of tending to pander to the soft left and identity-politik base in the inner suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne, I was quietly pleased that the announced policies did genuinely seem to be aimed more at the lower and lower-middle class voter (focused tax cuts to low/middle income earners, health and education spending aimed more at need/the bottom 20% and cutting some of the fat given by Howard to the upper middle class (of which, based on income I am one), such as reducing superannuation concessions for those of us who are wealthier, taxing family trusts, cutting CGT and negative gearing and of course, the franking credit fiasco (another Howard sop). While I understand that the franking credit reduction/removal was going to cause some problems for a number of people based on their retirement planning etc, it could have been managed in such a way as to minimise this by not grandfathering the legislation and better information - mind you I do struggle a bit with the whole notion that changes in policy might not have a negative impact on individuals - it happens all the time - ask the genuine unemployed or those struggling on the disability support pension how they are faring after the last 10 years of negative policy!!! There's also the issue of inter-generational conflict as most of those retirees had access to free University education, full employment and cheaper housing, compared to the current younger generation.

I am what would be described as a classic Liberal/Conservative fish just waiting to be caught - small business owner, Christian, white, middle-upper middle class, heterosexual and male - yet I despair at the apparent worship of "my kind" by the soft right of Oz politics! I don't need extra help from the government - and it's not because I am some super hard-working bloke who made his own luck - I have been fortunate to work in a growing industry (healthcare), had parents who valued education, got an excellent public school education, was helped a little with house purchasing by parents back in the day and get to live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.....in short, I have been quite blessed/lucky and I want to give back and be part of a community and society - not be locked in some gated community with other entitled, self made individuals who drive Audi Q9s and Posche Cayennes who think they should be rewarded by the government for their own good fortune - and I know I'm not alone because I have chatted many times with friends and patient and clients who feel the same way - we want a fairer Australia with less income inequality, not more and it's so frustrating that the Labor party has forgotten the working class man/woman (a la the Democrats in the U.S.) in favour of whichever particular noisy lobbying group from the identity-politics band-wagon has grabbed control of their agenda this week - the way they are going, they will win the Inner west of Sydney (until the Greens in NSW reorganise themselves) and bits of Melbourne but lose the rest of the country for good.

Rant over....sorry - geez last weekend was a shocker in so many ways:blush:   

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1 hour ago, Midfielder said:

Thats not what I said, 

You can bury your head in the sand if you think their is ever going to be an election where one side does not lie and paint things that are not true... The ALP in the last election said the Libs plan to sell medicare and ran a huge scare thingy...

Like it or not the ALP ran IMO the worst campaign at a federal election in my living memory...  

 

Stop effing insinuating I have no clue or I am burying my head in the sand. If people are effing stupid enough to vote for ****wits  who who have done **** all for the enviorment or climate change over the last six years that's their problem. I didn't vote for the coalition. Now eff off and go complain to the people who did.

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17 minutes ago, Potkorok said:

There's also the issue of inter-generational conflict as most of those retirees had access to free University education, full employment and cheaper housing, compared to the current younger generation.

 

Full employment which is considered to be around 4% unemployed and there has only been one period of 3 years with unemployment less than currently in the last 45 years and that period did not get below 4%.

When considering the cost of housing most retirees had to deal with tight availability of funds, periods of 12% interest rates and 17% inflation, all tied together with wages not keeping up with CPI and bracket creep so they haven't had it easy.

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5 minutes ago, Flytox said:

Full employment which is considered to be around 4% unemployed and there has only been one period of 3 years with unemployment less than currently in the last 45 years and that period did not get below 4%.

When considering the cost of housing most retirees had to deal with tight availability of funds, periods of 12% interest rates and 17% inflation, all tied together with wages not keeping up with CPI and bracket creep so they haven't had it easy.

Happy to agree with that Flytox, however I didn't even mention the issues of climate change, congestion and environmental degradation, governments using high immigration to provide economic growth, rather than productivity increases and business investment, negligible wages growth, the 'gig' economy, casualisation and the opening up of the economy to international competition ( a two-edged sword that one as depends on other countries having genuinely open markets etc ). Also the only reason interest rates are so low is minimal real economic growth, lack of wages growth and very low inflation.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I think the taxation system as it stands benefits us older voters moreso than the younger and that is likely to cause resentment and inequality. And that is only one area - poorer older Australians don't benefit much from the system either.

 

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1 hour ago, Midfielder said:

Thats not what I said, 

You can bury your head in the sand if you think their is ever going to be an election where one side does not lie and paint things that are not true... The ALP in the last election said the Libs plan to sell medicare and ran a huge scare thingy...

Like it or not the ALP ran IMO the worst campaign at a federal election in my living memory...  

 

The libs paid  a firm $5m to make a report called" Privatising Medicare" It wasn't a scare campaign it was based on FACT.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2016/02/09/coalition-want-medicare-privatisation/

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6 minutes ago, sonar said:

The libs paid  a firm $5m to make a report called" Privatising Medicare" It wasn't a scare campaign it was based on FACT.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2016/02/09/coalition-want-medicare-privatisation/

If I want a hospital  I’ll go off and get one myself self governments should keep out of it 

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50 minutes ago, Potkorok said:

As a traditionally just left-of-centre voter I have to agree with you here  - given the disastrous disunity in the coalition ranks only a few months back, it is astonishing that Labor managed to lose this one - definite shades of 1993 and Keating v Hewson, albeit without the birthday cake. Combination of too may policies and too little campaigning.

Where I disagree with you is that Labor didn't have sufficient policy agenda - given their recent history of tending to pander to the soft left and identity-politik base in the inner suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne, I was quietly pleased that the announced policies did genuinely seem to be aimed more at the lower and lower-middle class voter (focused tax cuts to low/middle income earners, health and education spending aimed more at need/the bottom 20% and cutting some of the fat given by Howard to the upper middle class (of which, based on income I am one), such as reducing superannuation concessions for those of us who are wealthier, taxing family trusts, cutting CGT and negative gearing and of course, the franking credit fiasco (another Howard sop). While I understand that the franking credit reduction/removal was going to cause some problems for a number of people based on their retirement planning etc, it could have been managed in such a way as to minimise this by not grandfathering the legislation and better information - mind you I do struggle a bit with the whole notion that changes in policy might not have a negative impact on individuals - it happens all the time - ask the genuine unemployed or those struggling on the disability support pension how they are faring after the last 10 years of negative policy!!! There's also the issue of inter-generational conflict as most of those retirees had access to free University education, full employment and cheaper housing, compared to the current younger generation.

I am what would be described as a classic Liberal/Conservative fish just waiting to be caught - small business owner, Christian, white, middle-upper middle class, heterosexual and male - yet I despair at the apparent worship of "my kind" by the soft right of Oz politics! I don't need extra help from the government - and it's not because I am some super hard-working bloke who made his own luck - I have been fortunate to work in a growing industry (healthcare), had parents who valued education, got an excellent public school education, was helped a little with house purchasing by parents back in the day and get to live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.....in short, I have been quite blessed/lucky and I want to give back and be part of a community and society - not be locked in some gated community with other entitled, self made individuals who drive Audi Q9s and Posche Cayennes who think they should be rewarded by the government for their own good fortune - and I know I'm not alone because I have chatted many times with friends and patient and clients who feel the same way - we want a fairer Australia with less income inequality, not more and it's so frustrating that the Labor party has forgotten the working class man/woman (a la the Democrats in the U.S.) in favour of whichever particular noisy lobbying group from the identity-politics band-wagon has grabbed control of their agenda this week - the way they are going, they will win the Inner west of Sydney (until the Greens in NSW reorganise themselves) and bits of Melbourne but lose the rest of the country for good.

Rant over....sorry - geez last weekend was a shocker in so many ways:blush:   

 

Mate, read what I say and remember I voted for the ALP.

I posted some of their polices where crap and secondly they ran a crap campaign .... thats the key reason they lost, what the others did hurt and its mad to say had no effect ... but the principal reason they lost was to the broader community they did not excite and did not react often to many chances they had to tear the Libs apart...

Clinton lost to Trump because she ran IMO the worst campaign in the history of the world and to date many of her supporters are blaming Sanders, Fox etc...  lets not make the same mistake... 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, sonar said:

Stop effing insinuating I have no clue or I am burying my head in the sand. If people are effing stupid enough to vote for ****wits  who who have done **** all for the enviorment or climate change over the last six years that's their problem. I didn't vote for the coalition. Now eff off and go complain to the people who did.

Take a deep breath squire.

Middy presents a moderate argument you don't agree with and you go on a personal attack.

While I rarely agree with your political perspective, you're better than that. 

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5 minutes ago, Potkorok said:

Happy to agree with that Flytox, however I didn't even mention the issues of climate change, congestion and environmental degradation, governments using high immigration to provide economic growth, rather than productivity increases and business investment, negligible wages growth, the 'gig' economy, casualisation and the opening up of the economy to international competition ( a two-edged sword that one as depends on other countries having genuinely open markets etc ). Also the only reason interest rates are so low is minimal real economic growth, lack of wages growth and very low inflation.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I think the taxation system as it stands benefits us older voters moreso than the younger and that is likely to cause resentment and inequality. And that is only one area - poorer older Australians don't benefit much from the system either.

 

Correcting the facts I quoted, 12% was the unemployment rate not the interest rate.  In addition wages were not tied to CPI and bracket creep increased taxation for most Australians.

I'm from the period of paying fees for university ie pre the Whitlam change in 1974.

The emphasis on cutting costs rather than increasing productivity is one I shake my head at.  It's why I think the ALP got it wrong tactically this election.  Going with a message to increase productivity and from that harvest extra revenue to do the things it wanted to prioritise would have been quite palatable to the electorate.

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Just now, Edinburgh said:

Take a deep breath squire.

Middy presents a moderate argument you don't agree with and you go on a personal attack.

While I rarely agree with your political perspective, you're better than that. 

Ed, sorry, but I didn't attack Midi personally. I just saiid eff off and don't complain to me.. If people want to have a sook about inaction on climate change then go to the people who are in control......The Coalition. THEY ARE THE GOVT....not the ALP. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sonar said:

Ed, sorry, but I didn't attack Midi personally. I just saiid eff off and don't complain to me.. If people want to have a sook about inaction on climate change then go to the people who are in control......The Coalition. THEY ARE THE GOVT....not the ALP. 

Ed, I will also add that who you vote for is up to you. That's your perogative and right. You are right in that we most probably wouldn't agree politically but I would never say to you that you have your head buried in the sand or are misinformed just because I don't agree with you. If people have a problem with govt policy they need to voice that complaint......to the govt.Not to people who didn't vote for them......lol

Edited by sonar

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2 hours ago, sonar said:

Ed, sorry, but I didn't attack Midi personally. I just saiid eff off and don't complain to me.. If people want to have a sook about inaction on climate change then go to the people who are in control......The Coalition. THEY ARE THE GOVT....not the ALP. 

 

47 minutes ago, sonar said:

Ed, I will also add that who you vote for is up to you. That's your perogative and right. You are right in that we most probably wouldn't agree politically but I would never say to you that you have your head buried in the sand or are misinformed just because I don't agree with you. If people have a problem with govt policy they need to voice that complaint......to the govt.Not to people who didn't vote for them......lol

No worries.

I think you're misunderstanding what Middy is saying. I read his comments as a critique of how Labor campaigned rather than complaining about any policies on climate change or anything else, on either side of politics.

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It’s just so laughable to claim Labour ran a poor campaign. It’s just not true. They ran a full policy platform compared to the Liberal party who did not run on any policy platform whatsoever. And the Labour Party explained that policy platform. They released it early, they worked hard to inform people 

We have to face facts.

The Australian people knew they were voting for a party skeptical of climate change and that they were not going to act to address it.

The Australian people knew they were voting for wealthy self funded retirees to keep their government given gift of franking credits and they also knew they were voting for people with multiple investment properties to keep their tax advantages.

The Australian people knew they were voting for indefinite detention and for reductions in refugee intakes. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to keep welfare payments below the poverty line and they knew they were voting to take away penalty rates from young people. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to have their own personal tax cut at the cost of no action to save or improve public education or public health.

They knew. They didn’t care. That’s who we, as a nation, has become. May as well face facts.

People aren’t dumb. And an affluent nation such as this one fears losing even one cent. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Cynth said:

It’s just so laughable to claim Labour ran a poor campaign. It’s just not true. They ran a full policy platform compared to the Liberal party who did not run on any policy platform whatsoever. And the Labour Party explained that policy platform. They released it early, they worked hard to inform people 

We have to face facts.

The Australian people knew they were voting for a party skeptical of climate change and that they were not going to act to address it.

The Australian people knew they were voting for wealthy self funded retirees to keep their government given gift of franking credits and they also knew they were voting for people with multiple investment properties to keep their tax advantages.

The Australian people knew they were voting for indefinite detention and for reductions in refugee intakes. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to keep welfare payments below the poverty line and they knew they were voting to take away penalty rates from young people. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to have their own personal tax cut at the cost of no action to save or improve public education or public health.

They knew. They didn’t care. That’s who we, as a nation, has become. May as well face facts.

People aren’t dumb. And an affluent nation such as this one fears losing even one cent. 

 

Exactly. 

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3 minutes ago, Cynth said:

It’s just so laughable to claim Labour ran a poor campaign. It’s just not true. They ran a full policy platform compared to the Liberal party who did not run on any policy platform whatsoever. And the Labour Party explained that policy platform. They released it early, they worked hard to inform people 

We have to face facts.

The Australian people knew they were voting for a party skeptical of climate change and that they were not going to act to address it.

The Australian people knew they were voting for wealthy self funded retirees to keep their government given gift of franking credits and they also knew they were voting for people with multiple investment properties to keep their tax advantages.

The Australian people knew they were voting for indefinite detention and for reductions in refugee intakes. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to keep welfare payments below the poverty line and they knew they were voting to take away penalty rates from young people. 

The Australian people knew they were voting to have their own personal tax cut at the cost of no action to save or improve public education or public health.

They knew. They didn’t care. That’s who we, as a nation, has become. May as well face facts.

People aren’t dumb. And an affluent nation such as this one fears losing even one cent. 

 

I voted Liberal.

I knew what I was doing. Little, if any, of your list affected my vote.

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2 hours ago, Midfielder said:

 

Mate, read what I say and remember I voted for the ALP.

I posted some of their polices where crap and secondly they ran a crap campaign .... thats the key reason they lost, what the others did hurt and its mad to say had no effect ... but the principal reason they lost was to the broader community they did not excite and did not react often to many chances they had to tear the Libs apart...

Clinton lost to Trump because she ran IMO the worst campaign in the history of the world and to date many of her supporters are blaming Sanders, Fox etc...  lets not make the same mistake... 

 

 

Yeah I think I was broadly agreeing with that but felt that the policies were not so much to blame as poor selling of the merits of the policies ( and perhaps just too many for one election campaign)

Agree with the Clinton assessment - but also so many disenfranchised white workers turned to Trump because they felt Democrats had abandoned them in the years leading up to the campaign - even a sizeable number of poorer black voters voted for him and these people used to be the Democrats bread and butter supporters - my fear is the Labor party here has been doing the same.

Cheers

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11 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

I voted Liberal.

I knew what I was doing. Little, if any, of your list affected my vote.

I like your honesty Ed. 

I, myself will always vote for a fairer, healthier community. 

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2 hours ago, sonar said:

Ed, sorry, but I didn't attack Midi personally. I just saiid eff off and don't complain to me.. If people want to have a sook about inaction on climate change then go to the people who are in control......The Coalition. THEY ARE THE GOVT....not the ALP. 

Sorry Sonar but you have it all wrong, It's all Labours fault, it always has been and it always will be. You need to listen carefully to the Liar from the Shire. 

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3 minutes ago, Cynth said:

I like your honesty Ed. 

I, myself will always vote for a fairer, healthier community. 

That's what I did on Saturday. 

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17 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Lol. 

I wasn't joking.

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