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Julian Assange arrested by UK police

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2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Hey Maaaaack!

Is it really necessary to maintain the prohibition on the r.ape word?

Can't recall why it happened - but whatever it was....is it still necessary?

Pretty sure it is an automated thing from the company that host the server, not something mack can change. But I may be wrong.

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6 minutes ago, wendybr said:

But to what end?

The repressions of these governments is clear - they don't pretend to be the upholders of democracy, fairness "truth, justice and the American way" blah blah blah...etc.

Nothing would change by exposing the repressive brutality in some of those countries.

In the West, exposing the injustice perpetrated by our governments...things may change. Our governments are accountable to the people....well sort of (so the story goes).

Exposure of anything dodgy in NK, China and Russia - how would it help??

So do nothing hey.......Gee I'm glad Nelson Mandela or Ghandi when faced with oppressive regimes thought differently.

How about the guy who stood in front of the tanks in Tianamin Square with flowers.....sorry, but you try and reach these folks any way you can.

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1 minute ago, sonar said:

Your missing the point.

I NEVER PRAISED NORTH KOREA.....what i wrote was.........

There are people from repressive regimes who get information about what is happening inside those regimes to unaware citizens........North Korea is one example.....where information from defectors in the south broadcast back.

.....thereby wendys point about there being no reason to hack those govt moot. The same can be done with Russia and China. Try and keep up.

I understood your post ... what I said why do you have to link NK with wiki leaks... 

As I said there are 1,000's of articles saying how bad NK is ... equally thousand if not million saying how good the US is .... 

When a journalist and media company expose the leaders they don't like it and throughout history we have praised and awarded those journalist who did so... this time those in power have written the script to destroy the message and send a strong message to every journalist everywhere in the world ... publish and be jailed. 

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The Watergate scandal was a major political scandal that occurred in the United States during the early 1970s, following a break-in by five men at the Democratic National Committee(DNC) headquarters at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C. on June 17, 1972, and President Richard Nixon's administration's subsequent attempt to cover up his involvement. After the five burglars were caught and the conspiracy was discovered—chiefly through the work of a few journalists, Congressional staffers and an election-finance watchdog official[1]—Watergate was investigated by the United States Congress. Meanwhile, Nixon's administration resisted its probes, which led to a constitutional crisis.[2]

The term Watergate, by metonymy, has come to encompass an array of clandestine and often illegal activities undertaken by members of the Nixon administration. Those activities included such dirty tricks as bugging the offices of political opponents and people of whom Nixon or his officials were suspicious. Nixon and his close aides also ordered investigations of activist groups and political figures, using the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as political weapons.[3]

The scandal led to the discovery of multiple abuses of power by members of the Nixon administration, the commencement of an impeachment process against the president,[4] and Nixon's resignation. The scandal also resulted in the indictment of 69 people, with trials or pleas resulting in 48 being found guilty, many of whom were top Nixon officials.[5]

The affair began with the arrest of five men for breaking into the DNC headquarters at the Watergate complex on Saturday, June 17, 1972. The FBI investigated and discovered a connection between cash found on the burglars and a slush fund used by the Committee for the Re-Election of the President (CRP), the official organization of Nixon's campaign.[6][7] In July 1973, evidence mounted against the president's staff, including testimony provided by former staff members in an investigation conducted by the Senate Watergate Committee. The investigation revealed that Nixon had a tape-recording system in his offices and that he had recorded many conversations.[8][9]

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3 minutes ago, sonar said:

Your missing the point.

I NEVER PRAISED NORTH KOREA.....what i wrote was.........

There are people from repressive regimes who get information about what is happening inside those regimes to unaware citizens........North Korea is one example.....where information from defectors in the south broadcast back.

.....thereby wendys point about there being no reason to hack those govt moot. The same can be done with Russia and China. Try and keep up.

where information from defectors in the south broadcast back."

So that people in the South can sign their names to a Change.org petition and have the NK government hang its head in shame, and rectify it's bad conduct??

 

 Seriously -  what is the point? The world knows what these govts do. How would a WikiLeaks probe help?

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6 minutes ago, Carns said:

Pretty sure it is an automated thing from the company that host the server, not something mack can change. But I may be wrong.

Oh maybe.....but I don't think it was always here.

I think I remember when it started....and sort of why (altho I don't recall the specifics)

To block that word doesn't make sense......and it's annoying in the context of this debate to have it blocked.

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1 minute ago, sonar said:

So do nothing hey.......Gee I'm glad Nelson Mandela or Ghandi when faced with oppressive regimes thought differently.

How about the guy who stood in front of the tanks in Tianamin Square with flowers.....sorry, but you try and reach these folks any way you can.

Whats your point... in China they jail journalist who talk about Tianamin Square because they don't want to be embarrassed ... do you want the same power in the US as well.

What has Mandela & Ghandi have to do with it... in both cases it was the free press that got their messages out if anything they support a free press and wiki leaks has done.

 

 

 

 

 

uS 

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2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Oh maybe.....but I don't think it was always here.

I think I remember when it started....and sort of why (altho I don't recall the specifics)

To block that word doesn't make sense......and it's annoying in the context of this debate to have it blocked.

It's been blocked for as long as I can remember.

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2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

where information from defectors in the south broadcast back."

So that people in the South can sign their names to a Change.org petition and have the NK government hang its head in shame, and rectify it's bad conduct??

 

 Seriously -  what is the point? The world knows what these govts do. How would a WikiLeaks probe help?

wendy.....I never said anything about a wikileak probe but asked the question why they have not hacked repressive regimes....?

It's a legitimate question to ask. I used Nth Korea as an example where people from that regime have broadcast back to their own people telling them what is really going on and not have to rely on state media which is regime run. So there are wys to get info into those countries....it's not a forlorn hope.

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4 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

Whats your point... in China they jail journalist who talk about Tianamin Square because they don't want to be embarrassed ... do you want the same power in the US as well.

What has Mandela & Ghandi have to do with it... in both cases it was the free press that got their messages out if anything they support a free press and wiki leaks has done.

 

 

 

 

 

uS 

When the point of view is offered that hacking these repressive govts because everyone knows how bad they are and it will do no good anyway.........there are always people in those countries ready to fight the good fight against repression....or is that a bad thing because it's not the US..?

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13 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

The Watergate scandal was a major political scandal that occurred in the United States during the early 1970s, following a break-in by five men at the Democratic National Committee(DNC) headquarters at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C. on June 17, 1972, and President Richard Nixon's administration's subsequent attempt to cover up his involvement. After the five burglars were caught and the conspiracy was discovered—chiefly through the work of a few journalists, Congressional staffers and an election-finance watchdog official[1]—Watergate was investigated by the United States Congress. Meanwhile, Nixon's administration resisted its probes, which led to a constitutional crisis.[2]

The term Watergate, by metonymy, has come to encompass an array of clandestine and often illegal activities undertaken by members of the Nixon administration. Those activities included such dirty tricks as bugging the offices of political opponents and people of whom Nixon or his officials were suspicious. Nixon and his close aides also ordered investigations of activist groups and political figures, using the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as political weapons.[3]

The scandal led to the discovery of multiple abuses of power by members of the Nixon administration, the commencement of an impeachment process against the president,[4] and Nixon's resignation. The scandal also resulted in the indictment of 69 people, with trials or pleas resulting in 48 being found guilty, many of whom were top Nixon officials.[5]

The affair began with the arrest of five men for breaking into the DNC headquarters at the Watergate complex on Saturday, June 17, 1972. The FBI investigated and discovered a connection between cash found on the burglars and a slush fund used by the Committee for the Re-Election of the President (CRP), the official organization of Nixon's campaign.[6][7] In July 1973, evidence mounted against the president's staff, including testimony provided by former staff members in an investigation conducted by the Senate Watergate Committee. The investigation revealed that Nixon had a tape-recording system in his offices and that he had recorded many conversations.[8][9]

Midi.....I have the movie on DVD......lol

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18 minutes ago, sonar said:

So do nothing hey.......Gee I'm glad Nelson Mandela or Ghandi when faced with oppressive regimes thought differently.

How about the guy who stood in front of the tanks in Tianamin Square with flowers.....sorry, but you try and reach these folks any way you can.

That's a nice sentiment Sonar - and I can see your point, but the three countries in question have one party, dictatorial regimes in power that have the ability to totally stifle debate. They are brutal.

I teach a book called "The China Coin" to my year 12 kids for the HSC. Set in 1989 against a background leading up to Tiananmen Square.

"Take it home over the holidays and read it," I naively said last year.

"Miss - they wouldn't let it into the country if they found it in our luggage!!" a couple of kids said.

My point is - we know what they do. It isn't a secret. What Wikileaks exposed wasn't known  (altho based on past history, it wasn't a surprise) and the word did get out.

In a democracy, with freedom of the press, you are supposed to get misuse of power out into the open. There IS a point to it.

 

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9 minutes ago, Carns said:

It's been blocked for as long as I can remember.

Maybe...but I think not.

Mack will tell us...I'm sure. :D

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Just now, wendybr said:

That's a nice sentiment Sonar - and I can see your point, but the three countries in question have one party, dictatorial regimes in power that have the ability to totally stifle debate. They are brutal.

I teach a book called "The China Coin" to my year 12 kids for the HSC. Set in 1089 against a background leading up to Tiananmen Square.

"Take it home over the holidays and read it," I said last year.

"Miss - they wouldn't let it into the country if they found it in our luggage!!" a couple of kids said.

My point is - we know what they do. It isn't a secret. What Wikileaks exposed wasn't known  (altho based on past history, it wasn't a surprise) and the word did get out.

In a democracy, with freedom of the press, you are supposed to get misuse of power out into the open. There IS a point to it.

 

Did you offer to sit and read it to them.? I would have.

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9 minutes ago, sonar said:

Did you offer to sit and read it to them.? I would have.

Believe me....we went through it chapter by chapter! We had to.

I love introducing them to Tiananmen Square...most have not been taught about it....even tho some of their grandparents had lived through it!! And the Cultural Revolution!!

The book had some of them go home and ask about it....and get told about it by their families.

But Middy made the point -  THAT is what you're asking for if you want whistle blowers against govt abuses of power (and those who assist them) to get their stories out shut down.

And that's what Wikileaks has done...enabled the uncovering of nasty truths.

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1 minute ago, wendybr said:

Believe me....we went through it chapter by chapter! We had to.

I love introducing them to Tiananmen Square...most have not been taught about it....even tho some of their grandparents had lived through it!! And the Cultural Revolution!!

The book had some of them go home and ask about it....and get told about it by their families.

But Middy made the point -  THAT is what you're asking for if you want whistle blowers against govt abuses of power (and those who assist them) to get their stories out shut down.

And that's what Wikileaks has done.

...and while I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying I do not get why they target only western govts. That is MY point. 

We have a submariner as one of our forumites and fans. I would hate it if anything that WikLeaks disclosed ever put his life on the line for no other reason than a free press . 

If WikiLeaks is going to expose the US military than it would win more friends if it hacked the Russian and Chinese military and all the other countries military establishment as well. That is MY point as well.

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20 minutes ago, sonar said:

wendy.....I never said anything about a wikileak probe but asked the question why they have not hacked repressive regimes....?

It's a legitimate question to ask. I used Nth Korea as an example where people from that regime have broadcast back to their own people telling them what is really going on and not have to rely on state media which is regime run. So there are wys to get info into those countries....it's not a forlorn hope.

But what is the point you're trying to make?

If people from those regimes broadcast back to their own people.... good on them! I don't think many of them are unaware of the repressions of their govt. My Chinese kids know. My Iranian kids know. They know they can't criticise their governments. They know the powers their govts have. 

Are you condemning Wikileaks for only going after Western targets?

How would the average Wikileaks hacker even know what they were looking at, hacking into a govt target within China or NK?

They might say, what business is it of ours?

 

To me it's a bit like Right Wingers condemning feminists for not tackling the issue of the repression of women in Saudi Arabia or Iran etc. Change movements have to come from within, generally speaking. 

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5 minutes ago, sonar said:

...and while I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying I do not get why they target only western govts. That is MY point. 

We have a submariner as one of our forumites and fans. I would hate it if anything that WikLeaks disclosed ever put his life on the line for no other reason than a free press . 

If WikiLeaks is going to expose the US military than it would win more friends if it hacked the Russian and Chinese military and all the other countries military establishment as well. That is MY point as well.

Ahhhh... that's what I was figuring - before I saw your last post.

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1 minute ago, wendybr said:

But what is the point you're trying to make?

If people from those regimes broadcast back to their own people.... good on them! I don't think many of them are unaware of the repressions of their govt. My Chinese kids know. My Iranian kids know. They know they can't criticise their governments. They know the powers their govts have. 

Are you condemning Wikileaks for only going after Western targets?

How would the average Wikileaks hacker even know what they were looking at, hacking into a govt target within China or NK?

They might say, what business is it of ours?

 

To me it's a bit like Right Wingers condemning feminists for not tackling the issue of the repression of women in Saudi Arabia or Iran etc. Change movements have to come from within, generally speaking. 

I am being criticised because I apparently do not believe in a free press because I think Assange is a twat and should face court for **** and WikiLeaks is biased. WikiLeaks IS biased and Assange should face court for ****. As for WikiLeaks. It is hypocritical of them to target one regime and not all. Why pick and choose. ?

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19 minutes ago, sonar said:

I am being criticised because I apparently do not believe in a free press because I think Assange is a twat and should face court for **** and WikiLeaks is biased. WikiLeaks IS biased and Assange should face court for ****. As for WikiLeaks. It is hypocritical of them to target one regime and not all. Why pick and choose. ?

I'm not criticising you, Sonar......I'm just enjoying a bit of intellectual exercise, via a debate!   :grouphug:

 

:D:D

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1 minute ago, wendybr said:

I'm not criticising you, Sonar......I'm just enjoying a bit of intellectual exercise, via a debate!   :grouphug:

 

:D:D

It's all good wendy.....:D....I don't mind the exchanges either. :good:

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22 minutes ago, sonar said:

I am being criticised because I apparently do not believe in a free press because I think Assange is a twat and should face court for **** and WikiLeaks is biased. WikiLeaks IS biased and Assange should face court for ****. As for WikiLeaks. It is hypocritical of them to target one regime and not all. Why pick and choose. ?

PS He probably is a twat, should face **** charges....if they reinstate them (but I'm not sure why they dropped them tbh...if a crime was committed, and there is a case to argue).

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, wendybr said:

PS He probably is a twat, should face **** charges....if they reinstate them (but I'm not sure why they dropped them tbh...if a crime was committed, and there is a case to argue).

The statute of limitations for his **** case is next year I think.

Three of the allegations relating to Miss A have already expired due to the statute of limitations, but a **** allegation made by Miss W does not expire until 2020.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-14/julian-assange-sweden-****-extradition-uk-politicians-letter/11001640

Edited by sonar

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2 hours ago, sonar said:

wendy.....I never said anything about a wikileak probe but asked the question why they have not hacked repressive regimes....?

It's a legitimate question to ask. I used Nth Korea as an example where people from that regime have broadcast back to their own people telling them what is really going on and not have to rely on state media which is regime run. So there are wys to get info into those countries....it's not a forlorn hope.

They have not hacked people come to them with information... and what would it matter anyway.... please understand he never hacked the US and not Russia... an insider from the US approached him ...

BUT please understand two things.

1] An insider came to Wiki Leaks, and if correct and the allegation is Wiki leaks helped them with getting a password ... THEN jail even journalist in history everyone helps their source, get information. 

2} Hacking is not in the charge presented to the Grand Jury in the US ... it was a line that its hacking ... BUT BUT BUT those that have seen it say the grand jury doc does not mention hacking ..

 

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Wen

 

Tad over the top at times but this is quite good.

 

 

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Just watched this - John Pilger beside himself over the arrest.

Predictably.

Amongst other things, he mentions WikiLeaks releasing 1000s of documents from the Russian govt/Kremlin….and from the Chinese....but doesn't elaborate.

 

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very funny

 

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5 hours ago, sonar said:

I am being criticised because I apparently do not believe in a free press because I think Assange is a twat and should face court for **** and WikiLeaks is biased. WikiLeaks IS biased and Assange should face court for ****. As for WikiLeaks. It is hypocritical of them to target one regime and not all. Why pick and choose. ?

Why pick and choose?

Why not?

Assange has no responsibility to target Russia or China just because he exposed the US. He doesn’t have to ensure equal exposure for everyone. He’s perfectly entitled to choose whichever targets he likes.

The issue regarding Assange’s exposure is not whether he’s a twat, whether he only targeted the west, whether he raped someone, or whether he’s a narcissist. It’s whether what he did was in the interest of the public good.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

Why pick and choose?

Why not?

Assange has no responsibility to target Russia or China just because he exposed the US. He doesn’t have to ensure equal exposure for everyone. He’s perfectly entitled to choose whichever targets he likes.

The issue regarding Assange’s exposure is not whether he’s a twat, whether he only targeted the west, whether he raped someone, or whether he’s a narcissist. It’s whether what he did was in the interest of the public good.

Sorry mate where I disagree with you is that I can't go past his not wanting to face the **** allegations...says more about his character than anything else.  Anyway me debating it here will have diddly squat on what happens. So I'll leave it at that.

Edited by sonar

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