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Midfielder

Julian Assange arrested by UK police

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, sonar said:

Sorry mate where I disagree with you is that I can't go past his not wanting to face the **** allegations...says more about his character than anything else.  Anyway me debating it here will have diddly squat on what happens. So I'll leave it at that.

So your entire argument is he did not go after enough countries... and he hacked the information himself or Wikileaks did.. also if he is an arsehole as you believe why should that be a reason to stop a free press.

OK OK OK ... maybe if I type this slowly you will read it slowly and understand at least this part.

Wikileaks... DID NOT HACK....

PEOPLE CAME to Wikileaks with info ... 

Your argument seems to revolve around Wikileaks only hacked western countries.

Wikileaks did not hack he was given the information.

Secondly he has released information on released stuff on India and many South Amercian countries ... but from information given to him.

Also the US court case is NOT repeat NOT please understand is NOT about hacking its a clever ruse by putting in a press release 

This is worth watching in time he explains what is in teh US court docs.... and its NOT hacking ... and he explains what Wikileaks is i.e. a publisher.

 

Edited by Midfielder

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6 hours ago, sonar said:

Sorry mate where I disagree with you is that I can't go past his not wanting to face the **** allegations...says more about his character than anything else.  Anyway me debating it here will have diddly squat on what happens. So I'll leave it at that.

I'm not arguing "for" his character, and I'm not defending (or attacking) the **** allegations. His character is not the issue when it comes to wikileaks. He can't be prosecuted for his character. 

That Honest Gov ad above says it all - are we (as a people) being sidelined into focusing on his character instead of whether he actually committed a crime? 

I'm also not arguing about whether or not he should stand trial/be found guilty for wikileaks. My natural inclination is to be anti-authority and to be glad he was exposing the government/system, but I know that I don't know enough about the particulars to comment.

What I do know is that the issue is very subjective. It's not like proving murder with forensic evidence. It's a debate about how far people should be allowed to go to expose the government versus the right for a government to have confidential information and the trust we have in them to do the right thing with that information. Everyone is going to have different values regarding this. That's why his fate is such a political issue.

Regarding trusting the US government, I'd ask "what have they done to earn that trust"? Here is a regime that refuses to let us know what happened to their own President (Kennedy) 50 something years ago, and have a history of entering conflicts for dubious reasons, and behaving dubiously when in those conflicts, why would we trust them to tell the truth about other things? 

Here's an interesting perspective which also questions our own government's shady dealings:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/assange-arrest-warning-history/5674239?

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13 hours ago, Midfielder said:

They have not hacked people come to them with information... and what would it matter anyway.... please understand he never hacked the US and not Russia... an insider from the US approached him ...

This.

Wikileaks is /was a Postbox so to speak for "whistleblowers" to lodge info on dodgy Government practices. From what I understand is that Assange did not know who the specific individuals who lodged were / are.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Midfielder said:

So your entire argument is he did not go after enough countries... and he hacked the information himself or Wikileaks did.. also if he is an arsehole as you believe why should that be a reason to stop a free press.

OK OK OK ... maybe if I type this slowly you will read it slowly and understand at least this part.

Wikileaks... DID NOT HACK....

PEOPLE CAME to Wikileaks with info ... 

Your argument seems to revolve around Wikileaks only hacked western countries.

Wikileaks did not hack he was given the information.

Secondly he has released information on released stuff on India and many South Amercian countries ... but from information given to him.

Also the US court case is NOT repeat NOT please understand is NOT about hacking its a clever ruse by putting in a press release 

This is worth watching in time he explains what is in teh US court docs.... and its NOT hacking ... and he explains what Wikileaks is i.e. a publisher.

Firstly......calm down.....have a cup of whatever.......and relax........

I've criticised Assange and WikiLeaks but never a free press and there is a big difference in the two.

Secondly ........I have never said anything about limiting the free press....never ever. I will gladly wait while you bring up posts where I have specifically called for that...........because Midi , I can assure you I never have.

Have I called for WikiLeaks to be shut down ? Have I called for any press to be shut down........NO I havent.  I only criticised them .

Thirdly ....I have read the indicment.......Here's a copy for you........and please note item No.9....."The portion of the password Manning gave Assang to crack"............so he doesn;t hack....?........lol

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5816934-Assange-Indictment.html

Edited by sonar

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Zip and Micki from the past....yes...they generated plenty of tension.

Midi and Sonar? Well...I never would have predicted it!

Mack will be on the prowl if you too get too  :xmad: :pappoiya: :xmad:

 

:D:D

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Zip and Micki from the past....yes...they generated plenty of tension.

Midi and Sonar? Well...I never would have predicted it!

Mack will be on the prowl if you too get too  :xmad: :pappoiya: :xmad:

 

:D:D

wendy it's all good as far as I am concerned...:D

.I have an opinion and Midi has his......I'm not a fan of Assange but that does not mean I am against freedom of the press. There is a difference. .....:D

I think the same about Assange as I do about Piers Ackerman....terrible human beings but I have never asked that he or News limited be shutdown

 

Edited by sonar

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1 hour ago, sonar said:

Firstly......calm down.....have a cup of whatever.......and relax........

I've criticised Assange and WikiLeaks but never a free press and there is a big difference in the two.

Secondly ........I have never said anything about limiting the free press....never ever. I will gladly wait while you bring up posts where I have specifically called for that...........because Midi , I can assure you I never have.

Have I called for WikiLeaks to be shut down ? Have I called for any press to be shut down........NO I havent.  I only criticised them .

Thirdly ....I have read the indicment.......Here's a copy for you........and please note item No.9....."The portion of the password Manning gave Assang to crack"............so he doesn;t hack....?........lol

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5816934-Assange-Indictment.html

sonar

I am not mad at you but I am mad at the process that has you thinking the way you do.... its the same media types who have convinced half of Australia to not believe in what scientists say, who belittle any academic statement that does not suit them.

You said

"" I have never said anything about limiting the free press....never ever."" what effect other than having a huge effect on a free press is jailing Julian.

""Have I called for WikiLeaks to be shut down ? Have I called for any press to be shut down........NO I havent.  I only criticised them .""" I accept that however your criticism has been about hacking and not hacking other countries, what I have tried to explain is they don't hack, people come to them and they have released heaps about other countries as well... it just not get the same coverage in the main stream press as has the US dumps.

"The portion of the password Manning gave Assang to crack"... Barvo this actually makes me so so so so so so so so so so sad in the ways its been framed by those who want to punish nay silence him. I doubt in the history of a free press with insiders providing information to journalist that the journalist does not try and help the provider if they can. How do I use a fax, how do I use drop box, my guess is world wide every minute of every day a journalist helps their source. Finally on this aspect i.e. they broke a law in getting the information then close down the New York Times and Washington Post because in "The Pentagon Papers" & Watergate they broke the law.... yet we protected both the journalist involved and the institutions they work for.   

The framing of this by those in power is to convince people this charge is not about a free press and is about computer hacking is impressive and in overdrive.... anyone who believes that has been taken for a ride.

 

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1 minute ago, Midfielder said:

sonar

I am not mad at you but I am mad at the process that has you thinking the way you do.... its the same media types who have convinced half of Australia to not believe in what scientists say, who belittle any academic statement that does not suit them.

You said

"" I have never said anything about limiting the free press....never ever."" what effect other than having a huge effect on a free press is jailing Julian.

""Have I called for WikiLeaks to be shut down ? Have I called for any press to be shut down........NO I havent.  I only criticised them .""" I accept that however your criticism has been about hacking and not hacking other countries, what I have tried to explain is they don't hack, people come to them and they have released heaps about other countries as well... it just not get the same coverage in the main stream press as has the US dumps.

"The portion of the password Manning gave Assang to crack"... Barvo this actually makes me so so so so so so so so so so sad in the ways its been framed by those who want to punish nay silence him. I doubt in the history of a free press with insiders providing information to journalist that the journalist does not try and help the provider if they can. How do I use a fax, how do I use drop box, my guess is world wide every minute of every day a journalist helps their source. Finally on this aspect i.e. they broke a law in getting the information then close down the New York Times and Washington Post because in "The Pentagon Papers" & Watergate they broke the law.... yet we protected both the journalist involved and the institutions they work for.   

The framing of this by those in power is to convince people this charge is not about a free press and is about computer hacking is impressive and in overdrive.... anyone who believes that has been taken for a ride.

 

Midi....I am old enough and smart enough ( I think  lol ) to be able disceminate information. I haven't drunk the "Kool Aid" of the media but arrived at my opinion on my own.

I don't think he or WikiLeaks are the be all and end all of investigative journalism. So please, stop equating my criticisms of Assange or WikiLeaks with wanting a media muzzled as that is blantantly not true or implying I can't see through the bullshit and have been conned. It is not correct. This thread is about Julian Assange.  

In my opinion Assange has his own political agenda and like many other organisations he runs with it. As Cyth pointed out in her post other journos have ratted on govts and not gone to jail.

I could go on a rant about Murdoch,his organisation and his stable of reporters or news outlets.... How about News of the World and phone hacking.....? ." How about the rantings of Bolt.....Devine.....Ackerman....etc and who they report on and the methods they use and the people they target and the messaging they give out....? I am NOT a fan of his media but that would only be criticisms and not a call to shut them down. How about Murdoch himself. ? As head of News Ltd he should of been held responsible for the phone hacking in the UK. WhY.? Because the only thing of public interest in those stories was him and how much money he could make through an illegal operation. 

Can we get into an argument about Kochie and Sunrise about all the free advertising they give Hanson and the opportunities given for her to sprout the racist crap she does...? I can criticise Sunrise and it's presenters but I would never call for them to be shutdown......I'm old enough to remember the ABC doing their investigation of the Qld police corruption which bought down the Bijelkie-Peterson govt. 

If you want Assange as your pin up for the free press then that is your perogative and I have no problem with that but I don't see him in that light and that is where we differ. 

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Sonar

Nay this thread is about the jailing of Julian Assange... and he is not my poster boy .

This is about a media company that has embarrassed both side of politics in the US and they want to shut him down. and sent a message to everyone in the world .

IMO this is the biggest attack on freedom of the press in my lifetime and it has nothing to do with Assange's character, its about press freedoms.

 

 

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"The British public know there is something wrong here when the whistleblower is in jail while the perpetrators are on TV" says former MP George Galloway who talks to In Question's Manila Chan as many in mainstream media stay mum on press freedom in Julian Assange case.

Jeremy Corbyn opposes Julian Assange extradition to the US ... good stuff..

 

 

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There Is a lot of talk that Julian Assange didn’t hack anything but just had information, hacked by others, given to him. I find this hard to believe since he was an expert hacker himself when he was younger. Also I think the current US charge indicates they think he “conspired” to hack with Chelsea Manning. 

Also, from what I read, the 1 US charge that exists for JA is just to get him extradited. The plan is to hit him with many other charges once he is in the US. 

 

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