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Western Sydney Wanderers vs Brisbane Roar 1/1/2020 7:30PM

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To be a top AL team you need minimum 4 foreign players that are performing at a high level. And if you don't have a 5th the local players need to be stepping up.

So far Lopar is the only import at that required level. Schwegler and Ziggy are defensive but our defence & midfield has been poor. Muller has been average but improving (may reach the high level despite playing out of position) and Meier is an utter flop.

Our local players can't really make up for that, and haven't.

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2 minutes ago, sonar said:

As I said interesting.

In a football perspective would the "electical impulses" defence stand up to a match review/judicary panel after a send off.? :D

Rhyan Grant comes to mind......."it wasn't me but my electric impulses that made me go in studs up. I'm innocent"......

I doubt Rhyan Grant's brain has evolved past teenage years. hahaha

But I think it was the Athletic article I linked, that said more and more people are using it as a defence. It's not too long a bow to draw to say that it could lead to people not being punished in the traditional sense, but all major crimes like murder etc. seeing the person being "diagnosed" and having brain therapy. There's some recent NFL players who claim that their violent or suicidal thoughts - a major symptom of the CTE brain trauma that they get - have dimished since having brain therapy.

We could come full circle and have been people being "fixed" for their anti-social behaviour, like the shock treatment of the past!

So yeah, Rhyan Grant could use it as an excuse, but that doesn't get him off, he has to sit out three games while his brain therapy fixes his stupid thoughts, and until his brain convinces him that his haircut is dreadful.

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1 minute ago, mack said:

To be a top AL team you need minimum 4 foreign players that are performing at a high level. And if you don't have a 5th the local players need to be stepping up.

So far Lopar is the only import at that required level. Schwegler and Ziggy are defensive but our defence & midfield has been poor. Muller has been average but improving (may reach the high level despite playing out of position) and Meier is an utter flop.

Our local players can't really make up for that, and haven't.

I agree that 4 of them need to step up. And I don't think the quality of recruitment is an issue, as it was when, say, Popa brought in the gang that included Aritz ******* Borda etc.

Perhaps it is a combo of the positions, and the coaching, plus a few injury/timing issues.

Lopar - great.

Ziggy - injured but improving

Schweggsy - great.

But that is three defensive visa players. I think that's too many. Although maybe if we had a decent visa striker it would seem ok.

Then Muller came in late due to the injury to the Polish dude, but he is starting to find his feet.

And Meier should have retired or played in the lower leagues of cold Europe. He can't cut it.

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1 hour ago, wendybr said:

What is that... seriously?

Over and over and over again it's happened, with Aaron Mooy being one of the first examples, and now look at him!

Throughout the A League, we would have players that are playing well enough to still be ours.

It's been said before, but it is the worst feature of this club (and it's a bad feature).

Already we are talking about a player clean out next year, with anew manager.

Can't it be that we have passionate players who play for the shirt and for the people of the area - Daniel G, Tarek and  Mitch D  come to mind - and they should form the spine of the team going forward.

Rather than finding a foreign coach who gets to turf out players he doesnt want, bring in a mob of his compatriots (,Gombau and Babbel both did it) and somehow, despite their collective skills, not build a competitive, cohesive squad, who work together.

I know what's wrong in that area...but don't know if it happens elsewhere (I think not, in the effective teams), or how to fix it.

PS would it be a problem to have a proprtion of the team Aussies, and then a significant proprtion of the team say German speaking (ours)  Spaniards (Gombau) Fowler with his pommie imports?

Not sure that makes sense...thinking aloud ( so to speak) and would love insights into how to build team loyalty and continuity.

 

Not just Gombau and Babbel - it was already in the DNA with Popa.  He turned over every squad we had.  After the 1st 2 seasons we haven't had a consistent squad.  It's been change every season. Popa seems to have learned for the moment at Perth but we will see how it goes next season with him.  It isn't about a foreign or Aussie coach.  It  is about building a culture and having a manager that will do that.  Gombau was not the one and actually I'm not sure Popa was either.  He went a big part of the way early on but wasn't able to push on and build a cohesive team and culture.  Heffernan and Beauchamp seem to be getting something going with the women and doing a good job.  They are creating a team with belief and guts.  I thought that was what Babbel wanted but it isn't happening.  Gombau and his philosophy were crap but Babbel doesn't seem to be able to move beyond rhetoric either.

I don't think the problem is the quality of the players but they way they are being moulded and developed.  Perhaps in Europe there is a pre-existent culture and structure around managers (who come and go). Perhaps in Europe the manager can expect players to fit into things when they come in and get on with it.  WSW need someone who can build the team, the culture and create a future.  Popa laid a solid foundation initially and then messed around with it and shot through.  Gombau played games and didn't get Western Sydney.  Babbel sounded like he got it but I still think he's a long way off really understanding WSW and what we need.

I don't think we need another Popa style coach who brings a few quick wins (as much as I'd take any wins right now!).  We need someone who understands the culture of Western Sydney, instills that hard-working culture, the fight against the odds, the grind it out underdog, fight the cap out of everything and win in any way we can because that's what Western Sydney is made of - never give up and punch above our weight.  We loved that with Popa early on but they lost it somewhere and we haven't recovered.  Maybe if Babel got in touch with his our inner struggles - a debilitating illness that cost him a lot at Liverpool; having to work hard to make it and prove himself... Maybe if he threw off the entitled, classy image and got down and desperate, he might inspire something in players who need someone to lead them and need to start believing in themselves and the need to fight for everythign because that's what Westies are made of!!

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1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

Getting the foreign imports right is key in the A League, our foreign recruitment of late has been patchy at best and disastrous in a few seasons 

Sure, of course...they are a key feature of successful teams.

But if they come into a closeknit, cohesive existing group, and are integrated within that existing group...rather than ALL  of them paddling around starting from scratch, surely that would help.

Plus look at the successful A League teams' imports.

Think the Roar under Ange and SFC and MV over the years.

They have actually had diversity amongst their imports.

We had a German, a Japanese, 2 Croats, an Italian  and a German in our first and most successful squad.

I'd say that those other teams were similar...a melting pot.

Contrast that with teams like ours, under Gombau and Babbel...where there MAY BE a different approach.

IDK...obviously it comes down to a whole lot of factors, but maaaybe its better to mix it up re the imports.

PS Im sick...and bored....and my brain needs something to distract it. :lol:

 

EDITED FOR ACCURACY - forgot our 2 Croats. :cheeky:

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4 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Not just Gombau and Babbel - it was already in the DNA with Popa.  He turned over every squad we had.  After the 1st 2 seasons we haven't had a consistent squad.  It's been change every season. Popa seems to have learned for the moment at Perth but we will see how it goes next season with him.  It isn't about a foreign or Aussie coach.  It  is about building a culture and having a manager that will do that.  Gombau was not the one and actually I'm not sure Popa was either.  He went a big part of the way early on but wasn't able to push on and build a cohesive team and culture.  Heffernan and Beauchamp seem to be getting something going with the women and doing a good job.  They are creating a team with belief and guts.  I thought that was what Babbel wanted but it isn't happening.  Gombau and his philosophy were crap but Babbel doesn't seem to be able to move beyond rhetoric either.

I don't think the problem is the quality of the players but they way they are being moulded and developed.  Perhaps in Europe there is a pre-existent culture and structure around managers (who come and go). Perhaps in Europe the manager can expect players to fit into things when they come in and get on with it.  WSW need someone who can build the team, the culture and create a future.  Popa laid a solid foundation initially and then messed around with it and shot through.  Gombau played games and didn't get Western Sydney.  Babbel sounded like he got it but I still think he's a long way off really understanding WSW and what we need.

I don't think we need another Popa style coach who brings a few quick wins (as much as I'd take any wins right now!).  We need someone who understands the culture of Western Sydney, instills that hard-working culture, the fight against the odds, the grind it out underdog, fight the cap out of everything and win in any way we can because that's what Western Sydney is made of - never give up and punch above our weight.  We loved that with Popa early on but they lost it somewhere and we haven't recovered.  Maybe if Babel got in touch with his our inner struggles - a debilitating illness that cost him a lot at Liverpool; having to work hard to make it and prove himself... Maybe if he threw off the entitled, classy image and got down and desperate, he might inspire something in players who need someone to lead them and need to start believing in themselves and the need to fight for everythign because that's what Westies are made of!!

Into our team of sport psychologists you go BFTW!

Brilliant insights there!

:hi:

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what the ****...we've been done by var handball penalties twice but when it happens to us they don't even look at it? Im so ******* frustrated with thye favouritism in this ******* pissweak bitch league

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40 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Not just Gombau and Babbel - it was already in the DNA with Popa.  He turned over every squad we had.  After the 1st 2 seasons we haven't had a consistent squad.  It's been change every season. Popa seems to have learned for the moment at Perth but we will see how it goes next season with him.  It isn't about a foreign or Aussie coach.  It  is about building a culture and having a manager that will do that.  Gombau was not the one and actually I'm not sure Popa was either.  He went a big part of the way early on but wasn't able to push on and build a cohesive team and culture.  Heffernan and Beauchamp seem to be getting something going with the women and doing a good job.  They are creating a team with belief and guts.  I thought that was what Babbel wanted but it isn't happening.  Gombau and his philosophy were crap but Babbel doesn't seem to be able to move beyond rhetoric either.

I don't think the problem is the quality of the players but they way they are being moulded and developed.  Perhaps in Europe there is a pre-existent culture and structure around managers (who come and go). Perhaps in Europe the manager can expect players to fit into things when they come in and get on with it.  WSW need someone who can build the team, the culture and create a future.  Popa laid a solid foundation initially and then messed around with it and shot through.  Gombau played games and didn't get Western Sydney.  Babbel sounded like he got it but I still think he's a long way off really understanding WSW and what we need.

I don't think we need another Popa style coach who brings a few quick wins (as much as I'd take any wins right now!).  We need someone who understands the culture of Western Sydney, instills that hard-working culture, the fight against the odds, the grind it out underdog, fight the cap out of everything and win in any way we can because that's what Western Sydney is made of - never give up and punch above our weight.  We loved that with Popa early on but they lost it somewhere and we haven't recovered.  Maybe if Babel got in touch with his our inner struggles - a debilitating illness that cost him a lot at Liverpool; having to work hard to make it and prove himself... Maybe if he threw off the entitled, classy image and got down and desperate, he might inspire something in players who need someone to lead them and need to start believing in themselves and the need to fight for everythign because that's what Westies are made of!!

 

34 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Into our team of sport psychologists you go BFTW!

Brilliant insights there!

:hi:

I'm with Wendy fantastic post.

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All I have been reading lately (despite all our shite here) is re-signing after re-signing of EFSC players on extended contracts.

Players they want to keep there. Players that want to stay there.There was another today. Traore? Clearly there is a culture there (a winning one) where players are desperate to stay. 

Meanwhile, we turn over a new squad every ******* season. There is your problem.

This "lack of culture" comes from the top.

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The demolition of the season 4 team prior to moving to SoP for season 5 is the one that still annoys me. We were a decent striker away from winning league and instead of tweaking we binned half the team and brought in the worst set if imports 

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27 minutes ago, Jukes01 said:

Where has it all gone wrong? First of all I am not a Babbel out or Babbel In at the moment. I do believe that a coach should be given every chance to succeed before we start giving them the flick. Let's start of with the fact that this years A-league is very tight and extremely close. Any team can beat another on any night.

It also pains me to say this but the only club which seems to be on top of everyone else is Sydney FC. The coaches they have employed, their player and foreign recruitment, their player retention. Dare I say it, the culture within the club itself is the envy of the A-league. They have managed to maintain a solid core group of players who are playing for each other and are willing to sacrifice for each other in order to be successful. Many of their players have taken unders in order to achieve that. I am not saying we should be looking to paying unders for players but the fact that the players at Sydney FC have bought into the culture and are willing to do that says a lot about the club. Meanwhile our club wasn't ready to offer players a decent bonus during the club world championships and our player recruitment has been like a revolving door. Will it really matter if Babbel stays or goes.

Other points people have raised include the fact that not many foreign coaches have won the A-league, so why do clubs keep on hiring them, including us. We need to think long and hard if we go down the route of sacking yet another coach, another expensive payout, another expensive worldwide search, another expensive clean out and change in coaching direction. It can have a severe impact on the football club for years to come and is not always the ideal solution. There have been lots of sliding doors moments for this club least of all the bitter and even acrimonious loss of Popovic and how that occurred. The club in all honesty should have put its foot down and said no way. We would have eventually lost him, but we wouldnt have put the club in such a poor state and we would have done Popovic a favour. All 20/20 hindsight of course but our demise as a club can be pointed to that event and the ripples are still in effect. At least in my opinion it was that event.

If only we had the balls to keep Hayden Fox for at least one season, but the club went and signed a big foreign coach in Gombau instead of looking after one of our own. All these decisions matter whether you agree with me or not. So for everyone looking for Babbels head, just know it can get worse if you do that before it gets better.

All I know is that I get the sense something is wrong and I'm not sure its all on Babbel. Running a football club is difficult and you need different people and characters to all pull in the one direction. I just want us to go back to being that good honest football club that we all fell in love with back in 2012. Represent the West, play for one another, be accountable and shoot faarcken.

Another great post!

Nice to see you posting Jukes! :xnod:

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The last few hours on this thread have been the best exchange of views on the team I have read ever. With people exchanging points of views in knowledgable and respectful way.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

The demolition of the season 4 team prior to moving to SoP for season 5 is the one that still annoys me. We were a decent striker away from winning league and instead of tweaking we binned half the team and brought in the worst set if imports 

I couldn't agree more.

Further to my previous post, I remember Polenz being rejected a contract over an extra $20k. Popa refused.

I know this was under previous management, but did this set the tone for where we are now?

Do we need a rich Russian or Asian benefactor to keep this club steering in the right direction?

I know Lederer has poured money into the club this season, and truly, I had hope as well that this season would be successful, but geez, how could things go so wrong? I had faith in Babbel, and his imports. Is Babbel just not up to the task? I don't know.

 

Edited by Wanderboy

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3 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I reckon the lack of a viable alternative has more to do with his non sacking right now 

Yep. The only reason i reckon we still have MB is because muscat knocked us back for an o/s offer.

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Mack - you need to extend edit time!!

 

I was going to add the following to my previous post, but ran out of edit time...

 

"I was horrified when the new management came in and Lyle Gorman immediately left and was replaced by JT.

It's all been down hill since then. "

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50 minutes ago, WHACKO said:

The last few hours on this thread have been the best exchange of views on the team I have read ever. With people exchanging points of views in knowledgable and respectful way.

 

1 hour ago, Jimspade said:

Bring back Piovaccari! 

 

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Raddo has been improving. Any idea how far away he is ?

Possible to push meier out (sorry big guy) have müller as marky if raddo is anywhere near coming back.

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I thought Rado was gone for season could be wrong but sadly I don’t think one player will make a difference 

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2 hours ago, Jukes01 said:

Where has it all gone wrong? First of all I am not a Babbel out or Babbel In at the moment. I do believe that a coach should be given every chance to succeed before we start giving them the flick. Let's start of with the fact that this years A-league is very tight and extremely close. Any team can beat another on any night.

It also pains me to say this but the only club which seems to be on top of everyone else is Sydney FC. The coaches they have employed, their player and foreign recruitment, their player retention. Dare I say it, the culture within the club itself is the envy of the A-league. They have managed to maintain a solid core group of players who are playing for each other and are willing to sacrifice for each other in order to be successful. Many of their players have taken unders in order to achieve that. I am not saying we should be looking to paying unders for players but the fact that the players at Sydney FC have bought into the culture and are willing to do that says a lot about the club. Meanwhile our club wasn't ready to offer players a decent bonus during the club world championships and our player recruitment has been like a revolving door. Will it really matter if Babbel stays or goes.

Other points people have raised include the fact that not many foreign coaches have won the A-league, so why do clubs keep on hiring them, including us. We need to think long and hard if we go down the route of sacking yet another coach, another expensive payout, another expensive worldwide search, another expensive clean out and change in coaching direction. It can have a severe impact on the football club for years to come and is not always the ideal solution. There have been lots of sliding doors moments for this club least of all the bitter and even acrimonious loss of Popovic and how that occurred. The club in all honesty should have put its foot down and said no way. We would have eventually lost him, but we wouldnt have put the club in such a poor state and we would have done Popovic a favour. All 20/20 hindsight of course but our demise as a club can be pointed to that event and the ripples are still in effect. At least in my opinion it was that event.

If only we had the balls to keep Hayden Fox for at least one season, but the club went and signed a big foreign coach in Gombau instead of looking after one of our own. All these decisions matter whether you agree with me or not. So for everyone looking for Babbels head, just know it can get worse if you do that before it gets better.

All I know is that I get the sense something is wrong and I'm not sure its all on Babbel. Running a football club is difficult and you need different people and characters to all pull in the one direction. I just want us to go back to being that good honest football club that we all fell in love with back in 2012. Represent the West, play for one another, be accountable and shoot faarcken.

Love this analysis Jukes.

Unfortunately i think the rot is somewhere near the top. If its not Lederer its JT. It would at least explain why so many players with potential go on to better careers at other clubs.

Thats not to discount Babbels stuttering results so far. But there seeme to be a bigger picture to all this. 

It does make me think of Matt Jurman. He a took a chance coming here, he was certainly passionate in the first few games, but he seems flat and uncertain yesterday. Has he caught the malady?

 

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Why was Meier dragging his left leg the whole match, is he still injured? He looked like he was spaced out, especially when clashing with his own player when we were on an attack.

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9 hours ago, Bob said:

Why was Meier dragging his left leg the whole match, is he still injured? He looked like he was spaced out, especially when clashing with his own player when we were on an attack.

Its hard to tell if he was injured since he barely even reaches a jogging pace on the pitch.

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9 hours ago, Bob said:

Why was Meier dragging his left leg the whole match, is he still injured? He looked like he was spaced out, especially when clashing with his own player when we were on an attack.

 

16 minutes ago, Jewwfro said:

Its hard to tell if he was injured since he barely even reaches a jogging pace on the pitch.

I mentioned in a previous post that even watching him walk, let alone try to run or jump, was painful in that game.

I didn't notice him dragging a leg, but if he is injured, that might explain it.

He certainly looked well past playing at this level.

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I’m a bit torn in the Meirer thing, obviously it’s not working 1 goal from a marquee is nowhere near enough. But it also drives me mad that a large chunk of our crowd yelling or him to run more, call for yeboah to get on as he runs and then cheer as he runs around like a headless chicken. I’m not arsed if our striker runs he just needs to score 

Yeboah’s first contribution summed him up, takes the ball go past a man keeps going, runs to the by line, mis controls the  ball and they get a goal kick 

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On 01/01/2020 at 9:52 PM, sonar said:

If one of your players has to go off for an injury and that injury was because of foul play then the player given the yellow card goes off as well and doesn't come back on till the player he fouled has been treated and gets back on the field. Tonight the team commiting the foul got a extra man advantage. We got a free kick and reduced to 10 men.

Is that in the laws of the game is it?  Don't recall it ever happening.  I was thinking otherwise it would be good if the rules allowed a temporary sub to be made for the duration of a play being off in the blood bin.  Isn't that twice now this season we have been scored against with a man off in that situation (DG I think it was )?

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On 01/01/2020 at 10:48 PM, wswnick said:

We should have kept Riera

Agree, but don't think he wanted to be here anymore did he?

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On 02/01/2020 at 5:56 AM, StringerBellend said:

at least #nogrozosnoparty got a run

Yeah.  Thought he looked pretty positive.

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On 02/01/2020 at 7:20 AM, Unlimited said:

And then Bozza at half time

Yeah, what was up with Bozza?  I too thought that remark completely irrelevant. Carrying the effects of too much New Years Eve Cool Aid perhaps.

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