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mack

Markus Babbel Sacked

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5 hours ago, mack said:

Yeah, sooking in the change room and not putting in the rest of the season is a great example of mentality.

We have won 4 drew 2 lost 8. 

He's a nob but he has a point.

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I am lost in translation with this article but this is an interesting points Babbel has made by the current state of football in this country

It sounds like you don't regret the move afterwards.

MB: As a trainer and personality, the experience has brought me further: I was able to help with the planning of a new stadium and training area, had to adapt the training control to the enormous temperatures, learn to deal with the salary cap: we only had a certain budget, we were only allowed to have five foreign ones Have players. However, this also led to problems.

What do you mean?

The level of the league suffers from the regulation. Because the result is that there are 19, 20 Australians playing in each club who can choose their clubs. There are 22 year olds who are already playing at the fifth club. In general, the mentality surprised me a little.
Why?

In my time, the Australians I played with were real mentality monsters. Players like Mark Schwarzer ( ex-goalkeeper, including from Dresden, Lautern, Chelsea and Leicester; d. Red.) Or Mark Viduka (ex-striker from Leeds United, Middlesbrough, Newcastle; d. Red.). Today these characters play football or rugby in Australia. Football is a rich sport for the elite here. The annual fee is easily 2500 dollars, so the parents are already considering whether to invest it.

https://sportbild.bild.de/fussball/international/fussball-international/markus-babbel-australien-down-under-67615690.sport.html

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6 hours ago, SBW said:

Football is a rich sport for the elite here. The annual fee is easily 2500 dollars, so the parents are already considering whether to invest it.

https://sportbild.bild.de/fussball/international/fussball-international/markus-babbel-australien-down-under-67615690.sport.html

That's an unusual observation.

What do people here think about the idea that football is for 'the elite'.

I guess when I look around at games, and listen to what people talk about, it does feel like quite a middle class crowd.

 

Not that it matters.

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Poor kids have trouble getting past the cheapest levels of local park football into elite programs & higher tier clubs.

Rich kids can in many areas buy their way into elite programs & clubs or at least have the ability to go through with them if they are offered.

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3 minutes ago, mack said:

Poor kids have trouble getting past the cheapest levels of local park football into elite programs & higher tier clubs.

Most people will be looking at $600+ just to play seniors football, I’d say that is out of reach of most.

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5 minutes ago, mack said:

Poor kids have trouble getting past the cheapest levels of local park football into elite programs & higher tier clubs.

Rich kids can in many areas buy their way into elite programs & clubs or at least have the ability to go through with them if they are offered.

It's getting that way Mack. If you add up the costs of player rego, boots, travel, food, accommodation if you're "lucky" enough to draw teams in the central west, awards night dinners, etc. you're gonna be sitting at about 5k per season at Youth NPL2 level.

I remember having a meeting at Lambert Park once, where I was told if I could redesign the visual branding and build a new website for one said club my son would have a guaranteed spot in the side. And no, I didn't do it.

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1 hour ago, wendybr said:

That's an unusual observation.

What do people here think about the idea that football is for 'the elite'.

I guess when I look around at games, and listen to what people talk about, it does feel like quite a middle class crowd.

 

Not that it matters.

Wendy, I agree with this statement from SBW that football is for those with money.

I have put Wanderboy Jnr through academy football over the years, struggling to pay the exorbitant fees, paying $2500 season after season. He went to China for a Stoke City football camp which cost another $3500 for a week.

The average Joe just cannot afford this. I struggle as well to pay for it but I put aside money as much as possible to give him the opportunity. 

Unfortunately, it's the way it is. Those kids that have rich parents easily get further up the ladder more quickly than those who don't.

It's a pathetic model that is holding Australian jnr development back.

Edited by Wanderboy

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31 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

Most people will be looking at $600+ just to play seniors football, I’d say that is out of reach of most.

Then it's time to put in a call to Bridget Mc K.......problem solved, however, just one minor matter/question. What's your Postcode? 

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1 hour ago, wendybr said:

What do people here think about the idea that football is for 'the elite'.

Others have already responded, but costs to play the game are much higher than other sports. It's prohibitive. And it's been this way for decades. When I was a teen and my mates were playing decent level football it often seemed that if you had the cash, your child was more likely to be selected in certain clubs. The idea of "pay to play" was, and is, very real.

Part of the reason that the WSW academy (along with Roar and others) has no fees is to try and get the best talent, not only the ones who can afford it. Cost of playing the game in general is a major issue in Australia, and needs addressing if we're going to improve the quality of our players, clubs and national team.

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1 minute ago, Carns said:

Others have already responded, but costs to play the game are much higher than other sports. It's prohibitive. And it's been this way for decades. When I was a teen and my mates were playing decent level football it often seemed that if you had the cash, your child was more likely to be selected in certain clubs. The idea of "pay to play" was, and is, very real.

 

Exactly the way it still is.

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1 hour ago, wendybr said:

 

I guess when I look around at games, and listen to what people talk about, it does feel like quite a middle class crowd.

 

Not that it matters.

And people here used to smash the poms for being class obsessed. No different here...worse in Sydney actually.

 

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8 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

And people here used to smash the poms for being class obsessed. No different here...worse in Sydney actually.

 

For football, and I suppose, other things as well.

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Posted this the wrong thread yesterday. Some pretty dire reading, in terms of what our team has done on the field this season.

Summary: Our results early in the season didn’t reflect our performances on pitch. Our current position just reflects this performance & takes if right back to that FFA cup quarter final win over Sydney United.

The author made an interesting point (see twitter thread via link) that non-football factors drove his ability to last as long as he did, blinding us to how badly we were on field. Even now, we are discussing his comments on referees or standard of the league yet in this discussion we fail to equate his role in it.

In some aspects, I disagree, it’s the non-footballing aspect that plays an important role in growing the game in a country where football struggles. The drama, the charisma, being tv friendly & being a character probably helped him stay in the role probably longer than he deserved. 

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16 hours ago, Ossified said:

Then it's time to put in a call to Bridget Mc K.......problem solved, however, just one minor matter/question. What's your Postcode? 

You joke but Simon Hill was tweeting about something adjacent to that the other day.

When the Vic government gives $67 per participant to football and $1,444 per participant to AFL I bet I can guess which one is cheaper to play.

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It’s not just money that’s preventing kids from progressing in their football journey. Politics and ethnicity are a huge factor too, which seems to be ignored a fair bit. I have played with a number of guys over the years who fell victim to this in one way or another because they either were/weren’t someone’s son or relative, or were/weren’t a certain ethnicity.

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On the Babbel article the bloke is not wrong on a lot of points  about Australian football and its a lot of things that has been discussed repeatedly with no solution such as grass roots being expensive to pay for NPL players and players at age of 23 at A-league playing for their 5th club. This is all true. People are too precious when a foreigner criticizes the A-league #Pim Verbeek 10 years ago said the same thing and they smashed him for it too.

 

However we also need to remember under Babbel's management the team he assembled played poorly and led us into 50/50 situations that iare in the hands of average referees. But his not wrong about the league

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How dare anyone criticise the safe zone that is the A-League...

MB isn’t the first person to criticise Australian football so I don’t know why media outlets are acting all surprised. I suppose it’s easier to put our head in the sand and blame him as a deflection rather than actually consider what is being said.

I have long felt that MB was too technically advanced for the A-League and as such struggled to simplify things enough for the caliber of the average player here. I know that sounds silly at first but there’s a lot of crafts/skills in life where people can be brilliant in a complex environment but struggle in a simpler one. You could see he wanted to do things a certain way but I don’t think there was the personnel to action it.

My year 9 maths teacher was a professor with multiple degrees and published papers yet was flat out teaching us from the textbook. In many ways MB reminded me of this but in football terms.

Add on top of this the salary cap and the nature of conditions the A-League is played in, it really throws these foreign guys.

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2 hours ago, hughsey said:

I have long felt that MB was too technically advanced for the A-League and as such struggled to simplify things enough for the caliber of the average player here

You see, strongly disagree with him being too technical. If you break down his tactics out on the field, it was anything but technical. In fact, it was dumb, really basic something that you’d see 5-10 years ago that was the norm.

He reminds me of the managers in the mould of ‘arry, pards, wenger & Sherwood that sets a formation, sends the players out & expects them to perform. Light on the preparation & heavily dependent on the players individual skill.

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5 hours ago, Davo said:

You joke but Simon Hill was tweeting about something adjacent to that the other day.

When the Vic government gives $67 per participant to football and $1,444 per participant to AFL I bet I can guess which one is cheaper to play.

I'm curious to know more about this.

The highest grossing income sport in the country is Australian Football.

Why do they need $285 million of Govt funding? To me it just seems like pork barreling to corrupt Victorians.

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3 hours ago, hughsey said:

It’s not just money that’s preventing kids from progressing in their football journey. Politics and ethnicity are a huge factor too, which seems to be ignored a fair bit. I have played with a number of guys over the years who fell victim to this in one way or another because they either were/weren’t someone’s son or relative, or were/weren’t a certain ethnicity.

to a degree That’s all kids sports at a rep level.
 

Never been an issue for me as I’m more of a “encouragement award winner”.
 

But my bro was a very good fast bowler (and decent bat) he’d go the rep trials, never get in but always the same surnames in each grade year to year did, co-incidentally the same names happened to be the committee members.

I remember one year after not getting in a following trial (in which a kid who didn’t even trial got in) he took 5-5 in his next game 4 of the wickets where kids in the rep team. 

 

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On 30/01/2020 at 7:08 PM, wendybr said:

That's an unusual observation.

What do people here think about the idea that football is for 'the elite'.

I guess when I look around at games, and listen to what people talk about, it does feel like quite a middle class crowd.

 

Not that it matters.

Football remains a boutique sport at the elite level. It has yet to and probably will never grow roots deep into the working class. Active draws in some fringe border town elements and immigrant kids but the composition remains essentially middle class. The A League may nudge NRL at times but will never come close to the behemoth that is the AFL. Most from the lower classes that are Football passionate are so with ties to clubs overseas. Call them Euro snobs or discerning. It's because of the lack of technical ability that makes Active so important in offering something different against the other codes. They will never try as they might have that cultural code embedded in a sport. 

Edited by DamnedUnited
Spelling

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35 minutes ago, mack said:

Can you imagine Arnie ever getting the same level of media attacks that Babbel and Postecoglou got?

Would've been a lot more of this

 

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35 minutes ago, mack said:

Can you imagine Arnie ever getting the same level of media attacks that Babbel and Postecoglou got?

Arnies mates arent going to say **** if he implodes

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It's the same with Aloisi and Rudan, can't criticise their mates.

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27 minutes ago, mack said:

Can you imagine Arnie ever getting the same level of media attacks that Babbel and Postecoglou got?

I think if things hit the fan for Arnie like they did for Ange, then yes can see him getting stick. It’s not like he has been above reproach, things weren’t going well for him at Sydney FC.

Going on the Socceroo’s, I must admit that Arnie got an easy ride for the poor showing in the Asian cup. In saying that he must be given credit for what he achieved with our under 23’s, thought that gives him some runs on the board.

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18 minutes ago, DamnedUnited said:

 It has yet to and probably will never grow roots deep into the working class.  

Considering where I originate from this distresses me greatly. 

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16 minutes ago, Carns said:

It's the same with Aloisi and Rudan, can't criticise their mates.

I remember when Aloisi was several years into his stint with the Roar, and Babbel had just taken over us, Fox Sports had their pre-season show and all the talk was about Babbel being "under pressure" and absolutely nothing about Aloisi. And that followed Gombau coming in 6 weeks into the season and instantly having an "under pressure how long will he last' campaign started against him. Kenny Lowe got a massive free ride from the media as well in that time.

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On 31/01/2020 at 4:11 PM, hughsey said:

How dare anyone criticise the safe zone that is the A-League...

MB isn’t the first person to criticise Australian football so I don’t know why media outlets are acting all surprised. I suppose it’s easier to put our head in the sand and blame him as a deflection rather than actually consider what is being said.

I have long felt that MB was too technically advanced for the A-League and as such struggled to simplify things enough for the caliber of the average player here. I know that sounds silly at first but there’s a lot of crafts/skills in life where people can be brilliant in a complex environment but struggle in a simpler one. You could see he wanted to do things a certain way but I don’t think there was the personnel to action it.

My year 9 maths teacher was a professor with multiple degrees and published papers yet was flat out teaching us from the textbook. In many ways MB reminded me of this but in football terms.

Add on top of this the salary cap and the nature of conditions the A-League is played in, it really throws these foreign guys.

My points exactly - in other posts.  A League is technically low and anyone who argues this doesn't watch any other leagues, including SE Asia.  Japan and Korea are way above us, technically.  We play a more physical harder, grinding style.  HOw many times on these forums do we all shake our heads with wonder at the poor quality of passing...  Even SFC look seriously ordinary when taking on other teams in Asia.

I don't think Babbel could adjust to that - nor have several other players and coaches from more technical leagues.  Duke said as much in the Fox Podcast with Hill and Garb - when asked what went wrong he said he didn't really know but it seemed like Marcus couldn't explain to them waht he wanted and expected in a way they could grasp and enact.  It was what it looked like - a gap between coach and players in terms of strategy and tactics.

I don't think he came to grips with the other things you mention - nor the refereeing - it really is dire at points and VAR inexcusable.

Of course none of this excuses Babbel - his record didn't cut it for a whole lot of reasons.

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