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Armageddon Thread

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Just now, wendybr said:

As said at the time, 100 cases, and they acted.

They will be through it while we will be in who-knows-what state.

When this is all done the Liberals will quantify success on house price fall limitation rather than life lost.

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Just now, Wanderboy said:

To be honest Wendy, I'm not sure the clowns from Labor would have done any better.

Scovirus has been hopeless. You reckon Albanese would have been better? I don't.

Keating, Howard, Hawke, Whitlam, even Fraser, would have provided better leadership. They were leaders. Morrison is an ad man.

There's more heart/humanity in anyone on the Labor side - not always for the best, but in this case, would have prioritised the human/ health issue more highly than the $$$ side.

It's just a fundamental difference to the core values of each side, as I see it.

I don't disagree with what you say about the current leadership of Labor. I don't see inspirational statesman-type leadership there.

But  but.....

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12 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

To be honest Wendy, I'm not sure the clowns from Labor would have done any better.

Scovirus has been hopeless. You reckon Albanese would have been better? I don't.

Keating, Howard, Hawke, Whitlam, even Fraser, would have provided better leadership. They were leaders. Morrison is a follower.

I think so

A Labor stimulus package would've been closer to what Rudd did - payments to families, no questions asked. None of this, "OK we will let you claim back the PAYG instalment for income tax for your March GST return. Oh by the way, you get that money late April. You don't know if you can stay in business for that long? Too bad buddy, we've legislated it".

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16 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Gladys looks a year older every time i see her, she hasnt got it totally right but she cares..that does come across for me, it is not just about the $ for her.

ScoMo is a ******* filthy scum bag that can get ****ed to hell.

THe LIberal Party is a broad church in which there is robust debate and individuals can make their own decisions.

Gladys should have just done what she wanted to do.

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Albo would have not come across too well, I think the policy behind it would have been more effective than what we are getting though.

But you forget that it wouldn't have been Albo, it would have been Shorten. I actually think he would have nailed this kind of stuff - clear messaging, not marketing guff and empty platitudes. He struggled to be personable in the leader role, I reckon this would have made him.

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11 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Don't know how credible it is but a reliable friend told me on her reliable evidence that Gladys wanted to shut down a week and a half ago, but Morrison wouldn't hear of it.

She has looked distraught, every time I've seen her in front of a camera.

He is a sociopath. Well, that's how I see him.

The barber/hairdresser's  idiocy is unbelievable, and reckless.

What a time to have Liberals in charge of things. :(:(

Maybe Libs are more inclined to worry about the economy. Maybe. But I think this is is an individual thing, not a party thing.

All those past PMs that Wanderboy mentioned would have all done things differently. Hawke and Keating were both great Labor PMs but they’d have acted differently in this situation. 

We’re in isolation with nothing to do so let’s have a guess how they’d react.

Hawke was an optimistic soul so I reckon at first he’d have thought we’d be ok. But he also was a brilliant man and I think as soon as it looked bad he’d have gone lockdown.

Keating would be the man I’d want in charge when this hit. He was an economist and a bit of a chunt but he also had great empathy and he would have navigated through this with clear decisions, whether Joe Blow liked them or not. Unlike Morrison who seems to have one eye on the economy while trying to balance the health bits, Keating would have determined a course and stuck strongly to it. Keating always had his eye on Asia so I think he’d have decided early to go into total lockdown, so that we could come out more quickly and get the economy going again. He’s also the one that would know which things to keep going so that the economy didn’t tumble too far.

Of the other past PMs, I think I’d take probably take Howard next. I couldn’t stand the bloke, but I reckon he’d navigate the waters pretty well. And maybe Gillard. Rudd would probably **** himself at having to actually do something.

But this is all (fun) guesswork, you only see the real leadership come out in times of crisis, you can’t tell how our politicians will react when true leadership is needed. What we do know is that Morrison has failed miserably. And Gladys needed to stand up to him.

Jesus Christ did I just write all that hypothetical **** about past PMs?  This isolation thing is gonna send me round the bend yo 

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9 minutes ago, marron said:

Albo would have not come across too well, I think the policy behind it would have been more effective than what we are getting though.

But you forget that it wouldn't have been Albo, it would have been Shorten. I actually think he would have nailed this kind of stuff - clear messaging, not marketing guff and empty platitudes. He struggled to be personable in the leader role, I reckon this would have made him.

As in the Beaconsfield Mine collapse. He was impressive.

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5 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

Jesus Christ did I just write all that hypothetical **** about past PMs?  This isolation thing is gonna send me round the bend yo 

:) We'll be here - you won't really be in isolation!

 

PS How's @luisenrique? Is he still in Sth America?

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@btron3000 ...as much as Rudd was a control freak the response the GFC was the right one. The Pink Batts were a failure of OH&S, the policy was right. They're not given credit for the good policy from that time. It's ironic in a way that while my electorate voted for the Libs my booth hasn't since 2007 (in Lindsay )

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7 minutes ago, wendybr said:

:) We'll be here - you won't really be in isolation!

 

PS How's @luisenrique? Is he still in Sth America?

Probably digging in for a long haul and living off guinea pigs if he is stuck out there.

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51 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Don't know how credible it is but a reliable friend told me on her reliable evidence that Gladys wanted to shut down a week and a half ago, but Morrison wouldn't hear of it.

She has looked distraught, every time I've seen her in front of a camera.

He is a sociopath. Well, that's how I see him.

The barber/hairdresser's  idiocy is unbelievable, and reckless.

What a time to have Liberals in charge of things. :(:(

ABC were reporting Vic and NSW were going in to lockdown on Sunday arvo. They had the meeting with state and fed Govs that night and Scomo and co pulled it back. It was pretty much going to happen before that (as ABC were reporting as much after the meeting). All it has done is delayed things by a week. The feds would argue for the sake of the economy (and job losses all at once), the states would argue they should've done it for public health and safety.

Annabell Crabb wrote a good article about the differing responses (and priorities) of states and feds.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-mixed-messages-morrion-premiers/12089662

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2 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Probably digging in for a long haul and living off guinea pigs if he is stuck out there.

:(

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And this was worth reading - apologies if it was posted yesterday...I had a frantic few days, and might have missed some of these items.

Some simple, effective graphics presented here, which you might have already seen?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-covid-19-modelling-stay-home-chart/12084144

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2 minutes ago, wendybr said:

 

PS How's @luisenrique? Is he still in Sth America?

Dude. 

He’s in Ecuador at the moment, planning a daring escape. (Only a slight exaggeration).

While the government back here is talking about how they are doing all they can to help Aussies overseas, the reality is far from that.

Ecuador is in total lockdown, curfews and everything. You can go outside for food and medical only. Borders totally closed. The local authorities where he lives have said they aren’t reporting Covid cases anymore. There hasn’t been too many to date but that is scary.

He emailed the consulate and the response was “look for a commercial flight and try to stay safe”. No ****, they pretty much used those words.

So the Aussies over there (about 100 of them) all started to create WhatsApp groups just through knowing each other etc. At one point there was talk of a chartered plane to Santiago, then someone was in touch with the media trying to ramp up the pressure on the gov to bring them home. Still nothing.

Meanwhile, they all applied for and got given a “safe passage” document, which essentially allowed them to travel during curfew. So if the police or military pulled them over they could produce the papers to show they were allowed to be travelling.

Back home, someone from the office of immigration was on tv here saying how difficult it was to get people from certain countries, like Peru. Really? They (and the Ecuadorians) all had papers saying they could travel so all they needed was our government to pay for a Qantas flight (Qantas have a few staff with spare time, no?) and tell the Peruvian and Ecuadorian governments the time and they’d be out of there. Or even just organise it, most of the people were willing to pay stupid amounts.

So in the end the only (possible) way home is via the US. Yep, as one of our friends said, right through the belly of the beast.

He leaves Sat morning our time and is hopeful to be back here Monday. He’s gotta fly to somewhere, maybe Texas, then on to San Fran, then Sydney. The wait at San Fran is like 55 min so he’s assuming they’ll miss that. If **** goes sideways in the US, he will be with a handful of Aussies. So that’s reassuring.

So... yeah... we’ll see what happens.

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23 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Probably digging in for a long haul and living off guinea pigs if he is stuck out there.

Hahahah that’s Peru, he’s in Ecuador. I’ve had guinea pig in Peru, ******* horrible and we had to pretend it was ok.

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On the plus side, have taken the chance to jump into the stock market while prices have fallen

$500 minimum parcel for your first purchase of any security is a bit steep to the first timer but... if it’s worth doing, it’s worth overdoing!

Having the charts up on my screen at work and researching tips is surprisingly quite interesting

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Posted (edited)

It is interesting to see the many views expressed that lockdown would eliminate Covid - 19.  The general view of the experts that I have read is that this is not the case.  They simply don't know enough about the virus to be sure of much but the expectation based on previous pandemics is a 2nd wave in China  (and possible subsequent waves).  A common opinion is that no other country could have mobilised the response that China did so although we can learn from their experience and future episodes there we can't expect to replicate it. There is also conjecture that it might become a annual seasonal event like the flu. The list of opinions and questions goes on but the view of the researchers is that it needs to be studied intensely.

 

 

Edited by Flytox

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3 minutes ago, Flytox said:

.  A common opinion is that no other country could have mobilised the response that China did so although we can learn from their experience and future episodes there we can't expect to replicate it. 

That makes sense - but then with their mega cities, perhaps most other places wouldn't have the same population densities, so that a good outcome might come without the absolute intensity and rigour of their lockdowns?

Just thinking out loud.

It's funny - most of the experts I listen to (on ABC or SBS) favour the go hard and go early approach, from my observations.

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5 minutes ago, wendybr said:

That makes sense - but then with their mega cities, perhaps most other places wouldn't have the same population densities, so that a good outcome might come without the absolute intensity and rigour of their lockdowns?

Just thinking out loud.

It's funny - most of the experts I listen to (on ABC or SBS) favour the go hard and go early approach, from my observations.

I chatted to my nephew who is an anaesthetist and his preference was to go harder now but he understood the benefits of the current response.      

By the way the Emergency Response Plan that was produced to drive the response to Covid -19 was published on 18 Feb.

 

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/australian-health-sector-emergency-response-plan-for-novel-coronavirus-covid-19

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32 minutes ago, Unlimited said:

On the plus side, have taken the chance to jump into the stock market while prices have fallen

$500 minimum parcel for your first purchase of any security is a bit steep to the first timer but... if it’s worth doing, it’s worth overdoing!

Having the charts up on my screen at work and researching tips is surprisingly quite interesting

The forums very own Rene Rivkin in the making.......:ninja:........(google it... :D )

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18 minutes ago, Flytox said:

I chatted to my nephew who is an anaesthetist and his preference was to go harder now but he understood the benefits of the current response.      

By the way the Emergency Response Plan that was produced to drive the response to Covid -19 was published on 18 Feb.

 

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/australian-health-sector-emergency-response-plan-for-novel-coronavirus-covid-19

Had a quick browse - thanks Flytox.

An interesting comparative table on p11

Spanish flu out in front, although not enough is known about this one yet, I imagine.

 

 

 

 

 

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If Gladys had the balls to stand up to ScoMo and put us into lockdown on Sunday, I would have had much respect for her. I’m not a Libs fan by any means but I appreciate someone who backs their decisions and will make tough calls. 
 

It’s clear she got a talking to and backed down. Andrews with a Labour Government in VIC has been the only one to take a real stand because he doesn’t have to listen to word ScoMo says. Time will tell but I think they’ll be much better off for it. 
 

I think we have a lot of things in our favour - the weather, our population density, decent education levels and the fact we’re a bloody big island. The places really struggling right now have big populations that live on top of each other. We aren’t like China or Italy or even the US. We have a chance to really have a good go at reducing this thing.
 

I don’t think anyone suspects we will eradicate it, but if we can bring it down to minimal levels of new cases, that would be a huge win. We definitely need to do more testing though. More visibility and contact tracing are essential and we need police to start really enforcing quarantine.  

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4 minutes ago, CaptainJess said:

If Gladys had the balls to stand up to ScoMo and put us into lockdown on Sunday, I would have had much respect for her. I’m not a Libs fan by any means but I appreciate someone who backs their decisions and will make tough calls. 
 

It’s clear she got a talking to and backed down.

She's always been a more pragmatic, consensus decision maker. But I agree with you, in a scenario like this, decisiveness and sticking to your guns is important.

One of the biggest issues with the decision making in this so far (in Oz) is the wishy washy messaging and willingness to concede or backflip.

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Posted (edited)

On another note, I’m afraid I could potentially be stood down from my role soon. It doesn’t look like community sport is getting back underway anytime soon and the only way a lot of organisations will survive is by pairing back costs. Our biggest cost at the moment is staff. I think our boss will try and keep us on for as long as possible, but if we don’t have rego fees, we can’t operate. 

Netball NSW just stood down all bar a few of it’s staff. We have about a quarter of the employees they have but it’s still scary. I’ve done the numbers and I think I’ll be okay if it happens but it’s something I never considered.

I’m lucky to have a partner with a very stable job (actually essential) and good income and parents who could potentially step in if required for a short time. $1100 a fortnight would just cover my mortgage if I didn’t get a holiday from my bank. Then I’d have to cut my expenses right back and rely on Balks and my parents to assist with things like rates, strata etc. If I did get a holiday, it might be a bit easier. I’m lucky I barely have any debt either. About $500 on a credit card which I am now desperately trying to pay down. 

I have a good tenant with decent cashflow and savings but I wouldn’t feel right taking his money if I got a holiday. Even if I was in trouble myself. 

Edited by CaptainJess

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12 hours ago, SomeGuy1977 said:

People continue to go mental, so now Bunnings has buying restrictions on a number of products. Strangely, no mention of sausage sandwiches. 

Even on the Woolworths site they announced that BWS has restrictions:

Liquor limits per customer, per shop online and in store at BWS

  • Beer - 4 cases
  • Wine - 12 bottles
  • Cask wine - 3 bottles
  • Spirits - 4 bottles
  • Premix - 4 cases
  • Cider - 4 cases

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, btron3000 said:

Hahahah that’s Peru, he’s in Ecuador. I’ve had guinea pig in Peru, ******* horrible and we had to pretend it was ok.

On SMH that flights for Aussies is SA will start from Peru soon. If he can head that way...

 

Edited by Smoggy

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12 hours ago, Prydzopolis said:

The government has been very coy on what’s its end game is with c19. If we were aiming to eradicate the virus we would have gone into lock down weeks ago. If we did go into lockdown & eradicated the virus, we’d have to shut down the entire country from the rest of the world till a vaccine becomes available otherwise we’d be open to another pandemic & we do this all over again.

Are they aiming for herd immunity theory? Impossible to say no but there are so many unknowns that it would be reckless if that is their end goal. Perhaps the in between theory & short term goal of flattening the curve so our hospital system can handle the sick requiring ICU. Then just deal with things as they come?

This article articulates things better than I did

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-27/coronavirus-options-to-end-lockdown-explained/12090270?pfmredir=sm

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