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Armageddon Thread

marron

By marron
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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, wendybr said:

He lathers on the "I love you guys so much" muck too much - and is a celebrity Dr - rather than one who works in an ICU - that's for sure.

Certainly couldn't be a more charismatic, attractive advocate for getting the vaccines - even though he does throw in some of the hesitancy arguments.

He pounces every time anything negative about vaccines comes up - and it's a smooth presentation.

Give me good old John Campbell every time.

He is a libertarian. He’s very transparent about that. 

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Davo said:

But by that line of reasoning wouldn't that also mean removing people from the road toll if they die in a car crash while being past life expectancy and having comorbidities?

LOLOLOL!

If you say so Davo!  :rofl:

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

This is far more authoritative 

https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-02-09-2021

Thanks Paul

So...

"So far, the TGA has found that 9 reports of deaths were linked to immunisation from 495 reports received and reviewed. These deaths occurred after the first dose of the Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca) vaccine – 8 were TTS cases and 1 was a case of immune thrombocytopenia (ITP)."

 

It might be a small number, but it's a tragic irony that these people most likely had their jabs believing they were safe, and that they were protecting themselves, their loved ones and their community.

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

This is far more authoritative 

https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-02-09-2021

Table 1: Newly confirmed and probable TTS cases for the week of 27 August – 2 September 2021‡

New confirmed TTS

New probable TTS

Two new cases:

  • 23-year-old man from NSW

  • 59-year-old woman from Queensland

Seven new cases:

  • 51, 54 and 62-year-old men from NSW

  • 60 and 71-year-old women from NSW

  • 66-year-old man from Western Australia

  • 95-year-old woman from Victoria

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sonar

sonar

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Is this for real?

I guess we spoke too soon. :(

TGA reports two deaths linked to AstraZeneca vaccine (msn.com)

This is why I was in the AZ vaccine hesitant brigade and I won't deny saying so at times here but as I said in a previous post I'm in a position of if I didn't get the jab I could potentially kill a family member or if I got the jab possibly myself. I do understand people have a different perspective to me....I get it.

The discussion here by it's nature can be fierce and robust but there is no right or wrong in this and as adults we have to make a choice. I made a choice from the information I deemed to be reliable and you and others have one to make as well based on what information you believe to be the most useful to you.

Edited by sonar
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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted

More on that "can of worms"...mandating of a medical procedure...

Melbourne principal stands by 'courageous' decision to make COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for staff
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/xavier-college-melbourne-makes-covid-vaccine-mandatory-for-staff/100434630

 

and...

Can employers make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-13/can-employers-make-covid-vaccination-mandatory/100373416

 

The Coalition has a "philosophical objection to mandating medical procedures..."

For now.

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, sonar said:

This is why I was in the AZ vaccine hesitant brigade and I won't deny saying so at times here but as I said in a previous post I'm in a position of if I didn't get the jab I could potentially kill a family member or if I got the jab possibly myself. I do understand people have a different perspective to me....I get it.

I am still in AZ hesitant camp. 

Fatal side effects are rare in most approved medicines. The type of vaccine that Astra-Zeneca is is called an adenovirus vector as the delivery system. There have been attempts to use adenovirus vectors to deliver other medicines

Specifically, is a known side effect that blot clots for these adenovirus vectors. This fact was ignored by the TGA for some reason but was not ignored by the various medicines authorities like the FDA and Denmark. 

And the risk profile when there are low numbers of Covid-19 infections meant that it was more dangerous to have the adenovirus vaccine than get Covid-19. Therefore, the benefits are outweighed by the risk of taking the vaccine.

However, when the Covid-19 is running rampant, the risk of taking adenovirus vaccine is more that the risks of taking the vaccine are no longer outweighed by risk of side effects.

Haing said that, i will remain in the adenovirus vector hesitant camp as long as i live UNLESS A SCREENING TEST IS DEVELOPED.

I get my first mRNA (Pfizer) jab next Tuesday.

As i have said repeatedly here, the Scum (Scott Morrison) has gambled with the lives of Australians by not signing a contract with Pfizer in July 2020 for 20 million doses so Australia was AT THE END OF THE OECD QUEUE.

Morrison also gambled on onshore manufacturing, which to be fair would have given self-sufficiency, but he refused to acknowledge the risks of such a strategy.

I hold Morrison personally responsible for failing to:

1. Purchase the Pfizer at the appropriate time

2. ensure that on-shore workers working at the border (airports and seaports) were not vaccinated,

3. failing to acknowledge that SARS Covid-19 is transmitted by air which means that almost of quarantine breaches prior to the Delta strain were from hotel quarantine. (He was lining his mates in the hotel business)

Morrison, in my opinion is just as dangerous as Trump

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Carns

Carns

Posted
Posted

AZ is safe for the vast majority of people. The statistics in Australia, the UK and anywhere elss it has been used show this. I understand the hesitancy behind it and agree that if there were further screening that could be developed beforehand it would be worthy. But the fact is the vast majority of people will have no serious consequences from it.

Obviously you should consult your doctor beforehand and consider your options.

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lloydy136

lloydy136

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, theseeker said:

If I accept you 3rd world scenario , which I don't , what's your panacea solution to this problem.

Increase the 30 billion to 3 trillion ? Or as suggested in Mr. Midnight Oil's song , Beds are Burning -

" Let's give it back " 

headline: random man on internet football forum solves 230 years of failed reconciliation :shok:

I don't have the answers. I can tell you anecdotally what I have seen work on a micro level in the couple of places I have lived/worked and I can tell you what research and studies have shown has an impact and why say NZ which has a similar history to us has better outcomes but I don't have the solution.

But that is straying away from my original point. I was responding to Wendy saying that a vacc passport would create a caste system - I was arguing that we already have a very tiered society and the pandemic had shone a light on that. I gave the example of the covid impact in western nsw and how it has exposed the metro vs rural/remote divide. I don't think that is a controversial opinion. You don't need to have lived in a western town to know that higher levels of average underlying conditions, higher average number of people in a household, comically low vacc rates and much lower access to hospitals and health care was a disaster waiting to happen and so it has come to pass. You can quote me how much money has been thrown at the problem but it doesn't change the fact that the problem exists. It is convenient for people to do this - just as many politicians have done in the past and present - Barilaro & Gladys are 2 of the worst mind - but covid has exposed the problem and the people in charge in pretty stark fashion imo.

I have part of a solution for you though - not organising for vacc's that were meant for the regions to go to private school kids in sydney. but you know little things hey?

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, wendybr said:

I still wish more of the money had been poured  into treatments.

Early intervention treatments.

Hope this proves fruitful...

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/queensland-scientists-make-covid-drug-breakthrough/video/3ff42ceab2f3e3f991ae58c64b352ee3

Wendy 

You really need to stop following Sky News. They are a bunch of right wing nut jobs squarely out of the Trumpian MAGA crowd

 

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

I have part of a solution for you though - not organising for vacc's that were meant for the regions to go to private school kids in sydney. but you know little things hey?

And that was on the pretext that those private school has children of aboriginal origin.

It's always the well heeled that get priority from conservative governments

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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wendybr said:

I still wish more of the money had been poured  into treatments.

Early intervention treatments.

Hope this proves fruitful...

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/queensland-scientists-make-covid-drug-breakthrough/video/3ff42ceab2f3e3f991ae58c64b352ee3

What makes you think they aren’t happening? Treatment trials are happening everywhere and in addition to these I saw that Merck has a final trial on a treatment happening right now. 
https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-covid-19-therapy-trials

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Davo

Davo

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, wendybr said:
Table 1: Newly confirmed and probable TTS cases for the week of 27 August – 2 September 2021‡

New confirmed TTS

New probable TTS

Two new cases:

  • 23-year-old man from NSW

  • 59-year-old woman from Queensland

Seven new cases:

  • 51, 54 and 62-year-old men from NSW

  • 60 and 71-year-old women from NSW

  • 66-year-old man from Western Australia

  • 95-year-old woman from Victoria

It’s not necessarily a problem, but it’s certainly a characteristic of this kind of data that you get detailed and accurate information of the deaths caused or suspected to be caused by the vaccines, but less hard data on the number of people who would have died had they not taken the vaccine. That has to rely on modelling and estimates.

12.6 million people have received their first dose in Australia and 9 have had their deaths confirmed to be caused by the vaccine or suspected to be caused by it. That’s a death rate of 0.00007%. If you count each dose as an opportunity for an adverse reaction (and the data suggests that once you’ve safely had the first the odds of issues from subsequent ones are basically zero) then you need to count second doses, so it becomes 9 in 20.6 million or 0.00004%.

There have been 60,134 confirmed COVID cases in Australia and 1,036 deaths, or 1.7%.

Given those numbers and the fact that the vast majority of deaths and ICU admissions have been people who have not yet been vaccinated, it’s not a stretch to assume that the number of deaths prevented by the vaccine would be orders of magnitude more than those caused by it.

Given the theory you mentioned that we’ll never have full herd immunity because of breakthrough cases, and that this would mean we will all inevitably be exposed to the virus at some point, I can’t see how people choose to be unvaccinated. You’re choosing the 1.7% death rate over the 0.00001-0.0001% death rate, you’re hoping they’ve developed effective treatments by then and you’re hoping the people you’ve inevitably passed the virus on to will be ok.

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Paul01 said:

Wendy 

You really need to stop following Sky News. They are a bunch of right wing nut jobs squarely out of the Trumpian MAGA crowd

 

Just pops up on my feed...along with stuff from the Guardian, the ABC, overseas media outlets etc etc

Lots of Sky News comes up at night...not sure why.

But seriously, why isn't that a great story??

Especially if our hospitals get smashed, as has happened everywhere else?

What could possibly be objectionable to getting the virus (as is now likely everyone will) and having a simple treatment to reduce the likelihood of developing more severe symptoms?? :unknw:

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Just pops up on my feed...along with stuff from the Guardian, the ABC, overseas media outlets etc etc

Lots of Sky News comes up at night...not sure why.

But seriously, why isn't that a great story??

Especially if our hospitals get smashed, as has happened everywhere else?

What could possibly be objectionable to getting the virus (as is now likely everyone will) and having a simple treatment to reduce the likelihood of developing more severe symptoms?? :unknw:

I see their vile content (especially on Joe Biden) on YouTube, start their video and report them as either disinformation, vile or hateful or misleading. Hopefully, YouTube will ban them again

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted

Here's the auto-engineer making sense on what we will most likely see in the the next months

He aptly discusses the fact we are living in Afgladystan and other issues relating to Covid-19

And just for Wendy, he specifically addresses the anti-vaxxer movement (with a idea that there could be natural selection about to occur :xnod:)

 

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Errr...might pass on that one, thanks anyway, Paul.   :P

 

:D:D

You must be English teacher rather than a science/maths teacher. 

This time you need to side with us science/maths heads.

Please watch, at least till he gets to the end of the modelling.

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

I am waiting for your precis of John Cadogan's modelling before i watch Sky News

Fair enough - I did start...but he sounded like a mathematician, and so :tired:.

:D

It was late at night, so that wasn't surprising. I'll watch in a while, i promise.

Mean time, you can watch the other two!  :lol:

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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
Posted

How are we to reconcile these two?

Serious question...

From ABC Health

Item 1   

India may be reaching 'endemicity' after emerging from second COVID-19 wave (msn.com)

"Conspiracy theories about ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine

A conspiracy theory going around at the moment is that India began treating people en masse with hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin and that was responsible for the fall in cases and deaths.

AAP fact checked the claim and found it was baseless.

"There is no evidence that new guidance on the use of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine led to a reduction in COVID-19 cases in India," they found. 

"In fact, hydroxychloroquine was reported to be in widespread use well prior to the country's second-wave outbreak."

Experts — including the ivermectin's manufacturers — have repeatedly said there was no evidence the drugs were effective in treating COVID-19.

 

Item 2

Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low | Cities News,The Indian Express

And yes, I did check that The Indian Express is a real publication.

The Indian Express - Wikipedia

 

The Guardian, a few days ago called Ivermentin a "bovine medication".

Apart from anything else, Ivermectin won its inventors the Nobel Prize for medicine......and yet  these publications come up with those bits of "misinformation".

 

 

Why?

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Paul01

Paul01

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, wendybr said:

How are we to reconcile these two?

Serious question...

From ABC Health

Item 1   

India may be reaching 'endemicity' after emerging from second COVID-19 wave (msn.com)

"Conspiracy theories about ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine

A conspiracy theory going around at the moment is that India began treating people en masse with hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin and that was responsible for the fall in cases and deaths.

AAP fact checked the claim and found it was baseless.

"There is no evidence that new guidance on the use of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine led to a reduction in COVID-19 cases in India," they found. 

"In fact, hydroxychloroquine was reported to be in widespread use well prior to the country's second-wave outbreak."

Experts — including the ivermectin's manufacturers — have repeatedly said there was no evidence the drugs were effective in treating COVID-19.

 

Item 2

Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low | Cities News,The Indian Express

And yes, I did check that The Indian Express is a real publication.

The Indian Express - Wikipedia

 

The Guardian, a few days ago called Ivermentin a "bovine medication".

Apart from anything else, Ivermectin won its inventors the Nobel Prize for medicine......and yet  these publications come up with those bits of "misinformation".

 

 

Why?

On the Guardian, it is a complete lack of understanding as to uses of Ivermectin in humans and and animals. It takes quite a study to find out the uses of Ivermectin. That is, unless you have worked for the Company that invented Ivermectin.

My first introduction to Stromectol was seeing a statue of a doctor and African patient in the Headquarters of said multinational pharmaceutical company (which at the time had a big veterinary section based on Ivermectin). Merck at that time donated Stromectol to sub-saharan Africa for the treatment of river blindness. The veterinary arm sold Ivermectin in the form of pastes (for equine use, drenches for bovine and ovine use, and as a pour-ons for bovine and equine use. 

As to the treatment used in India and other countries, a cheap treatment for a large population is appealing for a developing or rapidly developing countries with large populations compared to supplying sterile vaccines which cost a bundle (plus Pfizer comes at a premium)

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