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Armageddon Thread


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Yeah...Pfizer's working on it...no doubt they all are.

It will be rolled out when everyone in the rich Western countries have been jabbed.

But probably no sooner.

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18 hours ago, sonar said:

 

Who had responsibility for hotel quarantine......Gladys.

 

 

Ok with this I have a bit of beef with. For me the states SHOULD NEVER be in charge of quarantine and is actually a federal responsibility because its o/s comming into the country. And again as much as I blame Gladys her rules were the last line in defence, Morrison was and is in control of quarantine and vaccines. Morrison has been very smart to shift blame to the states and take credit where he can as well. 

If there is one thing Gladys should have done I think is to improve the conditions of quarantine in hotels with air filters and air alarms to reduce risk like in Belgium. In hindsight yea she should of called lockdown early, I know I started WFH a week and half before she called it and Delta spread like crazy from there. It takes a lot of balls to make lockdown call and Gladys isn't that person, she tries to make everyone happy but never makes the tough calls.

Never forget Morrison is the reason we're really in this mess and we were warned multiple times and no action was made. Morrison is only reacting now when its too late in regards to vaccines (do we honestly think he would of bulked up Pfizer and Moderna if this outbreak didn't occur)  and he isn't bothered fixing quarantine. I'm all for solutions and of course patiently waiting for my jab (2 weeks now) but I blame Morrison far more than Gladys for the current situation. Because Scomo so many small business have gone under while his mates in Harvey Norman are happy recording record profits and holding onto $28 million (they paid $6 million back) in handouts from job keeper while slashing its workforce.

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12 minutes ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

Ok with this I have a bit of beef with. For me the states SHOULD NEVER be in charge of quarantine and is actually a federal responsibility

Totally agree and I've said from the get go that quarantine should of been in a dedicated facility....not hotels.

My point was and still is the failure of the current system to stop Delta and the political players who let it happen. At a state level AND at a  federal level.

 

Edited by sonar
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1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Yeah...Pfizer's working on it...no doubt they all are.

It will be rolled out when everyone in the rich Western countries have been jabbed.

But probably no sooner.

Oh, I meant with regards to our health system being at capacity, but yes, that too.

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Regarding the vaccine passport - i think you guys get my point 

- Pedophiles aren't denied entry at places like RSL/Clubs even though there are kids playgrounds there 

- Influenza isn't as political as Covid, that's why most don't care about it

 

 

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2 hours ago, sonar said:

Totally agree and I've said from the get go that quarantine should of been in a dedicated facility....not hotels.

My point was and still is the failure of the current system to stop Delta and the political players who let it happen. At a state level AND at a  federal level.

 

To be honest, I think we are kidding ourselves if you think you can stop Delta. 

You may get lucky a couple of times and we did (remember the bbq guy) but other times it will get out and fester.

And if we are honest, without this outbreak - what urgency would people have to get vaxxed?

Maybe 40-50% - would be, the rest wouldn't care, if everything was open and there was no virus. 

 

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It is definitely worth being aware of this.

So much is not being discussed here, and I suspect peoples' expectations of life "going back to normal" when we're 70-80% vaxxed is somewhat unrealistic...for the forseeable future at least.

Anyway, this needs to be known, so as to assess what self protective measures to maintain, even when restrictions are lifted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/31/mild-coronavirus-breakthrough-infections/

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3 hours ago, wendybr said:

Out of step with sentiments here...but the stats here do help keep things in perspective.

Yes yes...it's 2GB

https://fb.watch/7TfMj1Mj7O/

The focus of the global medical regulatory bodies, politicians and the media ( which is currently the promotional arm of the politicians) has always only been focused on vaccines, rather than exploring early treatments to prevent progression to the severe  stages of the disease...which occurs in 4-5% of people with the virus.

Vaccine policies alone seem not to prevent hospitalisation of the critically ill (see Israel until they started their perpetual 6 monthly booster strategy).

It's a shame that early treatment protocols, which may have prevented those hospitalisations, has never been any sort of priority...in Western countries at least.

Anyway...lots and lots if stats in the Ben Fordham item.

Presumably because it makes more sense to prioritise vaccinations over treatments.

Treatments don't help until after you're infected (and have likely infected others), while vaccinations help to prevent you from getting infected in the first place (over 80% from the evidence available), reduce the chance of breakthrough cases being passed on to others (between 40% and 60% reduction), and already act as a pretty effective way of reducing the severity of the illness if you do get it (over 70% of people in NSW have had at least one dose, yet 81% of people in NSW intensive care are unvaccinated).

They absolutely should be looking into treatments, and there appear to be a number of studies going on, but the priority should definitely be vaccines.

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8 minutes ago, Davo said:

Presumably because it makes more sense to prioritise vaccinations over treatments.

Treatments don't help until after you're infected (and have likely infected others), while vaccinations help to prevent you from getting infected in the first place (over 80% from the evidence available), reduce the chance of breakthrough cases being passed on to others (between 40% and 60% reduction), and already act as a pretty effective way of reducing the severity of the illness if you do get it (over 70% of people in NSW have had at least one dose, yet 81% of people in NSW intensive care are unvaccinated).

They absolutely should be looking into treatments, and there appear to be a number of studies going on, but the priority should definitely be vaccines.

Time will tell if the single focussed approach ie vaccines, was the best approach.

 

But.. from the UK  a few days ago....EVERYONE, vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, WILL get Covid. I imagine that's how it will be here too.

The narrative has changed...again.

So...worrying about who will pass it on to whom is maybe not such an issue, in the light of this latest pronouncement.

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16 minutes ago, Stokz said:

To be honest, I think we are kidding ourselves if you think you can stop Delta. 

You may get lucky a couple of times and we did (remember the bbq guy) but other times it will get out and fester.

And if we are honest, without this outbreak - what urgency would people have to get vaxxed?

Maybe 40-50% - would be, the rest wouldn't care, if everything was open and there was no virus. 

 

The reason it escaped was because of a) Fed govt letting infected people into the country, b) allowing an unmasked and unvaccinated worker ( who was complying with the then rules ) to transport infected people into hotel quarantine, c) not shutting down the east suburbs when it should of.

If that one person had been stopped we would be now be open and getting vaccinated wouldn't literally turn into a life and death race.

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2 minutes ago, sonar said:

The reason it escaped was because of a) Fed govt letting infected people into the country, b) allowing an unmasked and unvaccinated worker ( who was complying with the then rules ) to transport infected people into hotel quarantine, c) not shutting down the east suburbs when it should of.

If that one person had been stopped we would be now be open and getting vaccinated wouldn't literally turn into a life and death race.

a) People surely are allowed to return home ?

b) This was **** policy for sure, but no one knew how the BBQ guy got his infection....  there was always potential for leaks.

NZ had a breach out of quarantine. These things happen.

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Re my previous post...

Seriously, if you don't watch anything I post, this 14 min one would be worth watching.

The guy is pro...pro...pro vax...so you won't encounter anything you don’t like. His talks are always accompanied by his highly "legitimate" ie official sources linked in, so you you can always check those sources out.

People really should know this.

Anything we hear here is a few months out of date.

 

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Sure, I want people to be able to come home but there is the welfare of the many as opposed the welfare of the few. How many folks have or will die due to Delta.?

IF you had a dedicated quarantine facility then the escape from hotel quarantine doesn't happen. Simple as that.

The govt are quite prepared to pay $bn's to keep 1 family on Christmas Island when the smart thing to do is turn into a covid quarantine station. or as was suggested from the beginning build or re-open quarantine facilities on the mainland. They didn't and here we ******* are.

We never had to be in this situation. We were open, able to go out, socialise, partying, visit family,go on holidays. The govts were warned that that all it took was one breach. I resent that I have to be kept from family etc because the govt failed in it's duty of care. 

Edited by sonar
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Sonar - what other country(s) has built dedicated quarantine facilities?

Why has no one done it ?

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6 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Sonar - what other country(s) has built dedicated quarantine facilities?

Why has no one done it ?

We're not sheep. Just because other countries don't have one doesn't mean we can't.

We actually have had them before.

We've become complacent. 

https://www.qstation.com.au/our-story.html

We've closed many over the years.

Edited by sonar
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7 minutes ago, Stokz said:

I know we had them.

But at 70/80% vax why do you need them ?

We now have a rush to get vaccinated after the horse has bolted and delta is running amuck. WE should of had things in place from the start....we didn.t. 

We should also be planning ahead to when and not if the next variant of Delta arrives that will be resistant to our current vaccines. We should be proactive not reactive. 

Lessons to be learnt.

 

Edited by sonar
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9 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Time will tell if the single focussed approach ie vaccines, was the best approach.

 

But.. from the UK  a few days ago....EVERYONE, vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, WILL get Covid. I imagine that's how it will be here too.

The narrative has changed...again.

So...worrying about who will pass it on to whom is maybe not such an issue, in the light of this latest pronouncement.

It hasn't been vaccines only, there have been studies into treatments and more are ongoing now. My post was in response to your comment about prioritisation. Given the benefits of vaccines, both in reducing the spread of the disease and reducing the severity of the illness for those who still get it, I believe it was absolutely correct to dedicate a larger focus of limited research capacity to vaccines.

Going back to our car analogies, it's like how car companies are putting more focus on active safety devices, such as anti-lock brakes, cars the detect obstructions and stop on their own, self driving cars etc. That's all time and resources that could be spent on passive safety like crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts, etc. They're still spending money on those things but have found that preventing the accident in the first place results in a bigger improvement in safety, rather than making things more survivable after you've already smashed into something.

I can understand why people who don't want to get vaccinated would be pushing for more focus on treatment, but if the majority want to protect themselves with vaccines that's where the majority of focus will go. It makes it even more baffling why people would choose to not take the vaccine, particularly as it appears more inevitable the everyone will be exposed to it at some point.

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I can imagine that email chain.

"We'd be happy to chat as soon as possible."

"Just following up on the previous email. If you have any questions please let me know." *adds high importance flag*

"Can you please confirm you received the below email." *adds read receipt request*

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1 hour ago, Davo said:

It hasn't been vaccines only, there have been studies into treatments and more are ongoing now. My post was in response to your comment about prioritisation. Given the benefits of vaccines, both in reducing the spread of the disease and reducing the severity of the illness for those who still get it, I believe it was absolutely correct to dedicate a larger focus of limited research capacity to vaccines.

Going back to our car analogies, it's like how car companies are putting more focus on active safety devices, such as anti-lock brakes, cars the detect obstructions and stop on their own, self driving cars etc. That's all time and resources that could be spent on passive safety like crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts, etc. They're still spending money on those things but have found that preventing the accident in the first place results in a bigger improvement in safety, rather than making things more survivable after you've already smashed into something.

I can understand why people who don't want to get vaccinated would be pushing for more focus on treatment, but if the majority want to protect themselves with vaccines that's where the majority of focus will go. It makes it even more baffling why people would choose to not take the vaccine, particularly as it appears more inevitable the everyone will be exposed to it at some point.

When it has now been shown to be temporary protection only...of 6 months or so (even after 2 jabs), at what point will the billions of dollars spent become too much to sustain?

Will governments be covering that ongoing cost, or will it be turned over to individuals?

$44 a Pfizer jab per 70 -80% of the population every 6 months..indefinitely.

To stave off something that 10-20% of people don't even know they've got, that 80% of people experience as mild to moderate  symptoms, that 4-5% of infected people with significantly compromised health may require hospitalistion for, and 1% of the infected population will succumb to...if their health is already severely compromised.

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We're being encouraged to think that this will be over soon, and we'll be jetting off overseas etc in a few months.

But the vaccination roll out is a temporary measure...or a measure with temporary efficacy, and then what?

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Are we being encouraged?

 

As for then what; then we will have the results of treatments that can also be used. Then we can get shots for it like the flu.

The treatments are temporary too you know.

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Are we being encouraged??

Some are being encouraged ie "Let's get back to the pub"...while others are being threatened and browbeaten -  "No jab no job".

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56 minutes ago, marron said:

No, are we being encouraged to think that overseas holidays are just around the corner?

Pretty sure I heard that (overseas travel) thrown into Gladys' mix of rewards...a few days back.

Not sure what time frame that she was suggesting was feasible. 

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