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32 minutes ago, Legionista said:

Because that's the point.

The double standard.

We are told that we cannot break social distancing, no exceptions, but for the protestors an exception was made.

HOW could physical distancing have been enforced with 10-20,000 mainly young people crammed into a few city blocks?

And.... is it being respected/enforced in shopping centres, apart from at checkouts?

I haven't been to one in months (I dislike them at the best of times). But I've heard plenty of people complain that the physical distancing there is a joke, overall.

 

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34 minutes ago, Legionista said:

Because that's the point.

The double standard.

We are told that we cannot break social distancing, no exceptions, but for the protestors an exception was made.

I’m torn on the protesting now during Covid, probably for different reasons than you.

firstly the measures we have taken have averted a huge amount of death, and have likely minimised economic impacts, ie we can start to open again now while the UK and US it will drag on 

and I obviously believe in the BLM cause 

could it wait?

things are seldom simple

In the US the risk of COVID spread is still very very high (they didn’t lock down properly when the should have), but on the other side now really does seem to be the time, it’s not like you can easily plan this sort of thing 

in australia the risk of spread is now far lower (hence we are opening back stuff up), the gatherings are outdoor which helps, on the other side could the protests wait? 

 

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I agree that the risk is far lower here.

The questions is why.

Cause we didn't continue to do stupid things.

Like gather in large crowds.

I think in the US it's a slam dunk. Literally days before the protests begun mainstream media identities were attacking Trump and Republican lead states for easing restrictions.

They were as one TV anchor called it, Sacrificing the older population to Wall Street.

This was all forgotten within a 24-48 hour period.

A miraculous conversion.

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Just now, Legionista said:

I agree that the risk is far lower here.

The questions is why.

Cause we didn't continue to do stupid things.

Like gather in large crowds.

I think in the US it's a slam dunk. Literally days before the protests begun mainstream media identities were attacking Trump and Republican lead states for easing restrictions.

They were as one TV anchor called it, Sacrificing the older population to Wall Street.

This was all forgotten within a 24-48 hour period.

A miraculous conversion.

Alternatively you could look at a media, a president and countless internet warriors saying open the country, Covid is a myth now getting upset about gatherings 

also has it been forgotten? 

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No, it has been constantly talked about.

 

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Posted (edited)

There was a sizeable amount of people skeptical of the threat of covid-19 and the policy of lockdowns and economic hibernation.

Most bit their tongue recognising this was an important moment.

Small government doesn't mean no government, it means yes to government intervention if there is a need for it.

A 1 in 100 year pandemic meets that criteria.

At least the initial response does.

Edited by Legionista

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SB is pointing out an alternative set of double standards! ;)

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So what's the standard here?

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I imagine he might be thinking there are people who have been skeptical about the virus and the need for lockdowns, who are now complaining about the protests?

Bit most likely it's for quite different reasons that they object to the protests.

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Also pointing out that there are two competing (and somewhat opposed) priorities 

- Control COVID

- use this moment in history to effect meaningful change (BLM) and stand up against the murder of innocent people by police 

many protestors (or supporters of the protests) are conflicted, it’s not a double standard (but I’d you want to call It that fine) it’s geniune believe in too conflicting priorities (not everything is simple)

some of made a value judgement that the value of the protest (and effecting change)  out weighs the risk of further Covid spread (in Australia that risk is no low, in the US it is high but you could argue the need to protest now is also higher) 

some won’t have thought about it at all

and yes some 

I’m conflicted on it, I don’t think that’s a double standard, I’m genuinely concerned about both, and on balance given what is happening in the US more broadly, on balance thing their is a need to a stand up (I wish there wasn’t but There is). In australia I respect those that think that this is the right time, particularly the aboriginal communities as a middle aged white guy it isn’t really for me to say that now is not the time to protest it can wait, that’s for those that are being oppressed to stay

The double standard I see is those that don’t believe in the aims of the protests (and by extension think that there is no issue with racism or are dont care about Black people getting by police) and are also at best ambivalent about the Covid lock down, now suddenly becoming concerned about COVID lock down and feeling the need on various social media platforms to jump up and down. It’s almost as if they don’t really believe what they are saying but are merely trying to clock up points on a online twitter game 

it all comes back to core belief, I don’t think those now suddenly crying double standard on the Covid thing really believe it or care about it in of itself it’s just a way to score points and cheapen the very valid purpose of the protests


 

its the same as the oh look Greta used a light bulb double standard arguement 

 

17 minutes ago, wendybr said:

SB is pointing out an alternative set of double standards! ;)

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39 minutes ago, Legionista said:

There was a sizeable amount of people skeptical of the threat of covid-19 and the policy of lockdowns and economic hibernation.

Most bit their tongue recognising this was an important moment.

Small government doesn't mean no government, it means yes to government intervention if there is a need for it.

A 1 in 100 year pandemic meets that criteria.

At least the initial response does.

Would these Same skeptical people, be jumping up and down about a large gathering that they agreed with? Are they geniune in their concern for Covid spread? 

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38 minutes ago, wendybr said:

I imagine he might be thinking there are people who have been skeptical about the virus and the need for lockdowns, who are now complaining about the protests?

Bit most likely it's for quite different reasons that they object to the protests.

That and they are tits

 

You have been waiting for me to say it 

:) 

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5 hours ago, Legionista said:

It was the trigger.

I have to agree....if the Authorities has taken prompt action in the US against the police officers involved then I believe that the demonstrations both in the US and overseas would not have been of the same magnitude and perhaps negligible here. The lack of empathy from a certain person in the White House didn't help matters either. I accept that we still have issues here but we could have postponed any mass demonstrations until the health crisis was over.

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1 hour ago, Legionista said:

No, it has been constantly talked about.

 

Trump's not...he's more interested in the stock market and his re-election chances...

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9 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

That and they are tits

 

You have been waiting for me to say it 

:) 

Haha...no....it hadn't occurred to me at all!

:lol:

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12 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

I have to agree....if the Authorities has taken prompt action in the US against the police officers involved then I believe that the demonstrations both in the US and overseas would not have been of the same magnitude and perhaps negligible here. The lack of empathy from a certain person in the White House didn't help matters either. I accept that we still have issues here but we could have postponed any mass demonstrations until the health crisis was over.

I tend to agree we could Have  postponed it here, but I’m also (as middle aged white guy) uncomfortable to tell those suffering and have been for 200 years to wait 

now we wait to see if there is a spike given out very low rates of community spread

in regard to the US the risk is far higher but then need for change is also far more immediate given the RWNJ they have for a president 

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1 hour ago, Legionista said:

No, it has been constantly talked about.

 

So not forgotten about in 24-48 hours then?

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It was because a woke social justice issue was on the table. 

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17 minutes ago, Legionista said:

It was because a woke social justice issue was on the table. 

If Covid wasn't in the mix, would the protests be legit, and appropriate, Legia?

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31 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

I tend to agree we could Have  postponed it here, but I’m also (as middle aged white guy) uncomfortable to tell those suffering and have been for 200 years to wait 

now we wait to see if there is a spike given out very low rates of community spread

in regard to the US the risk is far higher but then need for change is also far more immediate given the RWNJ they have for a president 

Oh your uncomfortable. 
 

oh ok. 

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5 minutes ago, wendybr said:

If Covid wasn't in the mix, would the protests be legit, and appropriate, Legia?

Of course. 

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Posted (edited)

Of who we were maybe. 
 

 

Edited by Legionista

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33 minutes ago, Legionista said:

Of who we were maybe. 
 

Hopefully not.

33 minutes ago, Legionista said:

The right to protest is a fundamental pillar of who we are.

This still...I think.

PS Where can I protest The Germans episode of Fawlty Towers being removed from.... wherever it's been removed from?

:crazy:

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Posted (edited)

The problem I have with those who say the BLM protests are putiing lives at/in danger is the out and out hypocrisy at play...................

As for mass gatherings in protests, Morrison is — or was — relaxed. When far-right protesters gathered to oppose lockdown restrictions in early May — including US-imported QAnon conspiracy theorists, with whom Morrison has a personal link — he was sanguine, saying he understood their “anxieties and frustrations … it’s a free country, people will make their protest and make their voices heard.”

20200606001472641144-original-440x300.jpg

What matters to the local Black Lives Matter movement

Read more >

But when progressive protesters gather, it’s a different story. Black Lives Matter protesters should be arrested and charged, Morrison said yesterday, contrasting them with “you know, millions of quiet Australians who have done the right thing”.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/06/12/scott-morrisons-double-standards-on-protests-make-it-clear-whose-lives-matters-most/

 

 

Edited by sonar

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8 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Hopefully not.

This still...I think.

PS Where can I protest The Germans episode of Fawlty Towers being removed from.... wherever it's been removed from?

:crazy:

It's been reinstated....with a warning at the beginning.....a better outcome than an outright ban imho.

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I have to say that I am with Legia here. I condemned those who protested for their “freedom” and in the name of their conspiracy theories a few weeks ago, (some I personally know) because I thought it would cause a Covid spike.

And now when people are protesting the BLM stuff, I am similarly critical. The cause is important but I think there are more creative ways to protest that would be less dangerous to our new found opening of the community.

I am strongly for the cause and would be there with bells in for this if not for the pandemic but not at this moment in time. I’m sure they could jam phone lines, park their cars somewhere inconvenient, I don’t know, something else, and let NSW get in with managing the pandemic whilst still getting their point across. 
 

I might be slightly biased as I have a very sick mum and if she gets the virus she won’t be with us anymore. :(

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Legionista said:

Oh your uncomfortable. 
 

oh ok. 

Fair point, It’s a piss weak word, what I am trying to say is it’s not my place (as a somebody who isn’t being oppressed) to tell those that are being oppressed when and when they can’t protest, surely you would agree with that? 

Edited by StringerBellend

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I'd agree, Cynth. Except...

I've been forced, by the government, into closed quarters with lots of people for weeks now.

The rugby is back on and you can go - in the next couple of weeks you'll be able to go almost back to normal they reckon.

When the thing was at its height ScoMO is on record saying it was fine for people to protest the restrictions.

And I thought last week with the long weekend was a one off, I went down for a walk this morning and there was a literal traffic jam around the carparks, it was packed like I have never, ever seen before, no exaggeration. If we get more cases it will be easy to say "the protests", but I'm looking at a bunch of SUV driving city folk (last weekend, anyway)  who wouldn't have been anywhere near them and don't give a **** either.

Is it a risk? I believe so. But so are a hell of a lot of other activities which seem to be being encouraged/allowed.

Meanwhile, in the states, that ecouragement/allowance is even more pronounced. Whole states are now saying, yeah, there's a second wave coming, and we are not going to do anything about it. THat was happening WELL before the protests.

I have not been watching US media so can't comment on the commentary as it were. I don't doubt the level of hypocrisy, the flip that you describe Legia. I just don't see it as any different to the flip between "protest the restrictions, it's our right" to "don't protest BLM, you'll spread COVID" which has been very pronounced over there.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cynth said:

I have to say that I am with Legia here. I condemned those who protested for their “freedom” and in the name of their conspiracy theories a few weeks ago, (some I personally know) because I thought it would cause a Covid spike.

And now when people are protesting the BLM stuff, I am similarly critical. The cause is important but I think there are more creative ways to protest that would be less dangerous to our new found opening of the community.

I am strongly for the cause and would be there with bells in for this if not for the pandemic but not at this moment in time. I’m sure they could jam phone lines, park their cars somewhere inconvenient, I don’t know, something else, and let NSW get in with managing the pandemic whilst still getting their point across. 
 

I might be slightly biased as I have a very sick mum and if she gets the virus she won’t be with us anymore. :(

I don’t think it’s a simple thing, I’d (and legia can have a go at me for being weak here) rather the protests wait a bit longer until COVID risk is lower, but like I say I don’t think it’s my place to tell the communities that are impacted when they can protest (maybe I’m becoming a Libiterean on that front)

But bluntly I’m not with the internet warriors condemning the protests as I don’t believe their motives  

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