Midfielder Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Paul01 said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/20/the-spread-of-coronavirus-is-not-the-fault-of-individuals-but-a-result-of-neoliberalism?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Thats a decent article wendybr, Smoggy, Paul01 and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just on the broader closures ... WA, NT, SA, Tassie, QLD & ACT have had no cases for a long long long time and NT wants to close for 18 months, WA have said until there is a cure or vaxcine and Tassie has said until December at least but more than likely longer... Job Keeper, Joe Seeker & people using there super seem to be the models being used to keep cash flowing... none of these is paid by the states... An interesting set of stats the ATO puts out ... the key stat is around 60% of the employed population work for small business, i.e less than 100 people... medium business i.e. 100 to 500 accounts for another 15% of the workforce population, meaning government and big business employ around 25 % of the population... of which government employs about 16% and big business about 9%... The financial and mental health effects is not being measured ... I gotta say why can't WA, SA & NT travel between these states ... Tis interesting the Feds seem to have far less power in running the country than I think everyone assumed ... Were I live we don't get TV reception and because Australian went to digital TV some time ago and everyone is guaranteed a full service I have an Australian digitial certificate to download via a dish the TV channels...the only thing you don't get 7, 9, & 10 from NSW they must come from other states, so I get Melbourne 7, North Queensland 9 & NT 10... The NT must be having elections and the ads by the government in power are all based on their broader closures and how tough they are .. As I said between states with no community cases in over 100 days each .... the logic escapes me .... why are these states closed to each other.. https://covidlive.com.au/ Tassie 105 days of NCC. SA 127 days of NCC WA 132 days of NCC ACT 133 days of NCC NT has not had a CC. Paul01 and wendybr 2 Link to comment
Smoggy Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Midfielder said: Thats a decent article Agreed. Link to comment
marron Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 I fail to understand how the profit motive and competition have not created a situation where these businesses are providing for their customers in an acceptable manner. Clearly lefty bias. wendybr 1 Link to comment
MartinTyler Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Midfielder said: Just on the broader closures ... WA, NT, SA, Tassie, QLD & ACT have had no cases for a long long long time and NT wants to close for 18 months, WA have said until there is a cure or vaxcine and Tassie has said until December at least but more than likely longer... NT wants to close for 18 months? There goes my trip on the Ghan next year !! wendybr 1 Link to comment
wendybr Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 As coronavirus COVID-19 rages next door in the US, Canada hopes to avoid disaster by keeping its border closed http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-22/canada-and-usa-dramatically-different-coronavirus-experiences/12566598 Look out for the reference to how to get 50 Americans out of a swimming pool! Edinburgh 1 Link to comment
Smoggy Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 21/08/2020 at 12:41 PM, MartinTyler said: NT wants to close for 18 months? There goes my trip on the Ghan next year !! I am supposed to be in England this time next year for my parents 50th golden wedding bash..made all the more special by the old man's cancer struggles of the last year and a half... Will be gutted if I cannot go..but what can you do Lots in similar situations and worse. EmMac, sonar and wendybr 3 Link to comment
MartinTyler Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Smoggy said: I am supposed to be in England this time next year for my parents 50th golden wedding bash..made all the more special by the old man's cancer struggles of the last year and a half... Will be gutted if I cannot go..but what can you do Lots in similar situations and worse. We were supposed to be going back in June and tentatively thought about going postponing until late next year. Realistically it will be 2022 for us. Smoggy and wendybr 2 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 5 hours ago, MartinTyler said: We were supposed to be going back in June and tentatively thought about going postponing until late next year. Realistically it will be 2022 for us. That through is seriously scareie... personally I don't think those we stop people working and those in small business trying to save their homes will not go another 18 months ... Our leaders have become quite authoritarian... I keep talking about my next door neighbour he is 49, never been on the dole ... relatively high income his wife works... but he has had two yes two days work since the lock-down started ... the count is up to 8 people he has worked with who have taken their lives ... he is a sound teck guy... That WA, SA, NT, Tassie, ACT, who have well over 100 days community connections free and still are closed IMO is crazy and purely political ... try telling my neighbour with these states with most being four months free banning travel to each other... tell him he can't work and his mortgage needs to go up... because we want who knows what six months of no cases... in the fair dinkum department over four months free each state and travel bans exist... Those kept from working, will only accept the above for a little longer... anger is building ... Stokz and wendybr 2 Link to comment
mack Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 New Zealand recorded it's first new case after 102 days. With a family of 6 people, four of them got infected despite none of them having any contact with the isolation areas. Do we really want to go down the US path where people don't give a **** about lockdowns & testing where nearly 6 million people have infected and where 180,000 people have died, with millions more infections going untreated and thousands of people dying but their deaths being covered up for political reasons or missed. sonar and EmMac 2 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, mack said: New Zealand recorded it's first new case after 102 days. With a family of 6 people, four of them got infected despite none of them having any contact with the isolation areas. Do we really want to go down the US path where people don't give a **** about lockdowns & testing where nearly 6 million people have infected and where 180,000 people have died, with millions more infections going untreated and thousands of people dying but their deaths being covered up for political reasons or missed. Are you serious WA, SA, NT, Tassie have not had a case in over four months... why are they closed to each other... I am not suggesting Vic, or NSW or QLD can enter ... but each has over four months free ... actually its over four months free... FFS the US is the worst by light years ... and you compare four states with no cases as I said in over four months each being opened ONLY to each other like the crazy world of Trump... nay thats how Trump supporters react when people throw logic at how Trump reacts... wendybr 1 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, mack said: Why risk it? I am happy to be proved wrong but SA, WA, NT, Tassie four months without a community case.... and you still see risk and the risk you see is akin to the USA ... I see a brilliant response by the state leaders which should allow these states to operate with less restrictions, with trade and travel allowed... There is also a risk of depression, violence against women increasing, male especially suicide, economic damage to small business... When you have gone over four months each .... I struggle to see the risk level you see... but I do see other risks... Also I see an increasingly divided society i.e. people with government type positions safe in any decisions made and those effected by these decisions now out of work and in many cases desperate .. and getting angry ... Its not like we are saying open up to QLD, NSW or VIC ... I am blessed to live in a paradise, with a semi tropical national park less than 4 meters from my front door, and I back onto a private reserve littered with tropical palms many over 400 years old and this leads onto Brisbane Waters and they are so clean and between my house and my out of work now neighbour we share a small 1.5 meter waterfall that pours out of an underground creek running under his house... my street has only five houses of which I am the second and at the end of the street the semi tropical national park wraps around both the houses and our private reserve... I can walk for hours from my front door, go swimming, sailing, from my back door.. all 30 minutes drive to where the M1 ends at Hornsby.... Why do I mention this because even in the worst of the lockdowns my life was hardly changed in fact we all got to enjoy our location better... but I can see the anger growing in a very humble, very kind, quite man with a huge intellect, worldly travelled ,,, I make it a point now of popping over with a beer just to talk .... even in the paradise we as neighbours share in a 1000% squared to the power of 1000% with like minded environmental people... many in business for themselves there is anger growing in those locked out of work, when after four plus months of no cases ... travel and other bans exists.... My neighbour who has had two days paid work since the lock down had to sell one of his cars, he personally has worked with now 8 people who have committed suicide ... his wife's brother who lives in Western Sydney ... they were telling us of someone they know who was badly bashed by he husband to the extend this guy stepped in [he is huge BTW and a Truck Driver and can handle himself] ... Depression, anxiety, fears, financial mental stress - on marriage- people- business are also medical issues etc, .... I am not saying its a free for all ... what I am saying we need realistic rules... Stokz and wendybr 2 Link to comment
sonar Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, Midfielder said: I am happy to be proved wrong but SA, WA, NT, Tassie four months without a community case.... and you still see risk and the risk you see is akin to the USA ... SA ...Last reported case...... 6 days ago........ https://www.covid-19.sa.gov.au/home/dashboard Link to comment
wendybr Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 FWIW I agree with Middy....with the proviso that IF an outbreak occurs between the Covid free states, you have to take a hardline approach, as in what NZ has done...go hard, go early to stamp it out. IF outbreaks occur without any known source, as in NZ, well....the implication is that the virus has been circulating at a low level of seriousness for months, isn't it? And that opens a whole other can of worms I think. Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, sonar said: SA ...Last reported case...... 6 days ago........ https://www.covid-19.sa.gov.au/home/dashboard I think that case was someone from Melbourne.... it was not a community connected case as I recall... SA has gone 129 days without a community connection case. WA has gone 134 days ACT has gone 135 days and they have been open most of the time aside from VIC over the last few weeks. NT has never had a case Tassie 107 days... These are very impressive numbers... Seriously if these states can't open up to each other ... then the states will remain closed until the world has rid's itself of cov 19, which I think the WA premier said a few months back... wendybr 1 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, wendybr said: FWIW I agree with Middy....with the proviso that IF an outbreak occurs between the Covid free states, you have to take a hardline approach, as in what NZ has done...go hard, go early to stamp it out. IF outbreaks occur without any known source, as in NZ, well....the implication is that the virus has been circulating at a low level of seriousness for months, isn't it? And that opens a whole other can of worms I think. The recent thinking in NZ was the virus was brought in by flight crew ... from an overseas airline wendybr 1 Link to comment
sonar Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Midfielder said: I think that case was someone from Melbourne.... it was not a community connected case as I recall... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/sa-new-coronavirus-case-closes-thebarton-senior-college/12532200 SA Chief Public Health Officer Nicola Spurrier said a woman aged in her 20s had tested positive for COVID-19, and that contact tracing had identified about 70 close contacts. Second South Australian school closure sparks fears of community transmission https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/second-south-australian-school-closure-sparks-fears-of-community-transmission-c-1211622 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 8 hours ago, sonar said: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/sa-new-coronavirus-case-closes-thebarton-senior-college/12532200 SA Chief Public Health Officer Nicola Spurrier said a woman aged in her 20s had tested positive for COVID-19, and that contact tracing had identified about 70 close contacts. Second South Australian school closure sparks fears of community transmission https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/second-south-australian-school-closure-sparks-fears-of-community-transmission-c-1211622 OK then write to the Federal Health folk who report these things... they must not understand media reports .... as its their charts I am reading from... HHHHMMMMMM when a risk occurs massive testing and contact tracing occurs to keep everybody safe... Question does """"sparks fears""" mean that community transmission has taken place ... Or does it mean lets check to see if community transmission has happened... Quoting from the article you posted... "We have not got community transmission in South Australia in any way in a widespread form and this is why we're being absolutely over-cautious in this instance," she said. I have not gone back and looked but I think the SA case was a Melbourne returning person .. But lets be fair ... lets ban SA for say 3 months now ,,, My point is we either lock up the place until there are no more cases world wide or determine a level we can live with.. Question A or B. A] Keep everything closed until the world is free of the virus or at least everyone in Australia... interesting those who don't take a vaccine if found should they be allowed in. B] Determine polices to open. Edinburgh 1 Link to comment
sonar Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) So when they say ....""We have not got community transmission in South Australia in any way in a widespread form and this is why we're being absolutely over-cautious in this instance," she said."...... They are NOT saying there is no community transmission.........it's just not widespread. So your initial statement WAS incorrect. I am happy to be proved wrong but SA, WA, NT, Tassie four months without a community case. The articles I linked to prove my point. Edited August 23, 2020 by sonar Link to comment
wendybr Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Coronavirus Australia live news: New Victorian COVID-19 cases back above 200 as Brisbane cluster grows http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest-qld-vic-outbreak/12586344 Daniel Andrew is masterful in his language....and so empathetic. EmMac 1 Link to comment
wendybr Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Got links to the pandemic, so it suits well enough here, I guess. The pursuit of wellbeing (and why you can have it without happiness) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/coronavirus-stop-chasing-happiness-and-focus-on-wellbeing/12566340 Midfielder 1 Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 23/08/2020 at 11:11 AM, sonar said: So when they say ....""We have not got community transmission in South Australia in any way in a widespread form and this is why we're being absolutely over-cautious in this instance," she said."...... They are NOT saying there is no community transmission.........it's just not widespread. So your initial statement WAS incorrect. I am happy to be proved wrong but SA, WA, NT, Tassie four months without a community case. The articles I linked to prove my point. I gotta stop reading those official government reports them.. AS they support what I posted... so they must be wrong.... Link to comment
sonar Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Midfielder said: I gotta stop reading those official government reports them.. AS they support what I posted... so they must be wrong.... I can play semantics as well. The virus doesn't give a rats where someone contracted it. There were tests in SA and they have been positive...you said there were no cases for months. At the present there are clusters of over 1100 people being monitored in SA. You said you were happy to be proven wrong.....apparently not....... Link to comment
sonar Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, sonar said: I can play semantics as well. The virus doesn't give a rats where someone contracted it. There were tests in SA and they have been positive...you said there were no cases for months. At the present there are clusters of over 1100 people being monitored in SA. You said you were happy to be proven wrong.....apparently not....... I'll add this...... So.....as you can see there have been local transmission in SA......on the 23/08 Edited August 24, 2020 by sonar Link to comment
Midfielder Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Just on state rights. The ability of the state to close themselves off from the rest of Australia has surprised me no end.... The states control education aside from universities, hospitals, most police forces certainty in number, most transport systems... The Federal government fund most of these things but the states determine how they operate. If we go back to the 80's and prior, each state had its own companies act and each state looked at themselves first and the nation second. Under Bob Hawke, a more federalist model emerged and as economic international barriers started to break down the states adopted a more federalist model. Today, to me anyway the premiers seem to wanta play the pre 80's state games .... I am staggered TBH at the lack of any real power the federal government has .... Maybe its just I lacked knowledge but the power of each government to decide in what they see as their interest i.e. water as an example I am amazed by... It beggars belief if I have read things correctly that national supply chains can be effected ... The NT government said a few weeks ago they will remain closed for 18 months, and early on the WA government said until a cure is found we will remain closed not sure if this still applies or if its government policy but it indicates a state has the power to essentially cut itself off from the world and the federal government can do SFA. As I said I am amazed at how little power the Federal gov has .... wendybr, Stokz and Edinburgh 3 Link to comment
mack Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 The biggest powers not given to the Federal Government are health, education, unilateral construction and control of railways & policing/law (although it has some powers regarding the justice process and it controls Federal territories). It does have the power to make laws over quarantine, but how much power that gives them can only ever be tested in the high court because of the intersection that Covid has being a health issue (which is a state responsibility) and a national/quarantine issue. sonar and wendybr 2 Link to comment
sonar Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) I'd be happy to abolish the feds and let each state govern themselves......we don't need 3 layers of representation. local govt and a national govt would be enough....or at least **** off Qld...... https://factcheck.aap.com.au/claims/does-nsw-contribute-the-most-in-gst-and-income-tax Football internationals every weekend..... Edited August 26, 2020 by sonar EmMac 1 Link to comment
Burgerman Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Doing that will be like American states with ridiculous different laws and opens the gate for corruption were people like Gina rinehart can take advantage and more mining and gas fracking. Link to comment
sonar Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, Burgerman said: Doing that will be like American states with ridiculous different laws and opens the gate for corruption were people like Gina rinehart can take advantage and more mining and gas fracking. It was tongue in cheek...well, a little bit....lol....I would not be upset if NSW became an independent country.....and I meant it about Qld. I would vote for it tbh.....It's all moot as it ain't gonna happen. Link to comment
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