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Armageddon Thread


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1 minute ago, sonar said:

There seems to be doubt cast on the trials

They haven’t released the full data set of these stage 3 trials but thus far it all looks very promising. Nothing to suggest doubt you’ve suggested. They wouldn’t be pushing ahead with stockpiling unless they were confident in the data.

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31 minutes ago, sonar said:

There seems to be doubt cast on the trials.

While everyone is hoping and praying that the vaccine(s) work ( I certainly do) I hope for everyone's sake that in the rush to get it out they get it right and none of them turn out to be another Thalidomide.

I'm not an antivaxer,in fact I'll happily take the vaccines if their efficacy can be proven. I just think it's better to be safe than sorry.

Well...happy to let the oldies take the first vaccine round, see how they go..by the time they get to me I will be in the last group and any issues resolved probably......only kidding. I said that jokingly to my old an on skype a few weeks back...

Edited by Smoggy
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2 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Well...happy to let the oldies take the first vaccine round, see how they go..by the time they get to me I will be in the last group and any issues resolved probably......only kidding. I said that jokingly to my old an on skype a few weeks back...

My dad is 90....he's going to be first in line I think......if he starts growing horns or such  I'll know to give it a miss.   :P

:D

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13 minutes ago, sonar said:

My dad is 90....he's going to be first in line I think......if he starts growing horns or such  I'll know to give it a miss.   :P

:D

Based on Boro's posting history about his Dad, it's too late for that to be a useful indication.

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5 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Grrrrrr...

Canberra records a new COVID-19 case, just one day after ACT declared free of known coronavirus cases
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-27/canberra-records-new-covid-coronavirus-case/12929154

I would suspect COVID is still simmering at low levels in SW Sydney. Vaccine hopefully available by our late summer.

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Wonders aloud given over 30 days of no cases when Victoria will open to people returning from overseas again. 

Its interesting most states are not going out of their way to increase their intake and as usual lots of buck passing between the States & Feds ... please don't pick sides and say its all either the states or Feds at fault... 

One of my clients has a daughter and a son in law and their child in Europe .... they are not wealthy ... and getting back has been difficult according to my clients... 

But back to the Vic's ... they should be able to take 3 k a week if NSW can take 4K per week ... 

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Its a show I stopped watching some time ago as the AFL bias and Melbourne centre of the universe drove me away...

But in the heat on Sunday, I watched "Offsiders""".... much discussion on cricket ..

BUT BUT BUT a very interesting discussion about, travelling international sports players and or teams... i.e. Melbourne Tennis open, and various touring Cricket sides... plus their fans and management teams behind the playing teams..

AnyWho the discussion is outside NZ & Australia no one has actually got control over the virus as we have and have a western cultural population being so hhhhmmmmm just following on medical advise and compared to overseas almost no protest and sports teams treated no differently to other areas of the population... equally travelling fans....

It was one of those off the cuff discussion both interesting to watch and yer yer this is going to be fun to watch.... 

Edited by Midfielder
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1 hour ago, sonar said:

The Federal govt is in full control of our national borders and who can cannot enter the country.....full stop. This is true no matter who is in govt.

The states control the numbers right now... ..

Its the numbers that are also an issue ... 

Funding also comes into the equation...

It is possible for both sides to be right on different issues ... 

NSW has carried a huge part of people returning... Vic just announced they will be resuming as well...

All states could increase how many people they take ... 

A difficult part of the issues has been  if someone returned to say Sydney and spend two weeks locked away and then went to another state they would then have to spend another two weeks locked away...

My original post was whether Vic would open up again and that appears to be yes they will and that's good... 

As an aside the pandemic has highlighted to me anyway the power the state governments have... that the Federal government unless they have specif laws in place can only suggest not impose on states their polices in many areas... essentially broad agreement to accept issues rather than having to...

Me thinks long term this will change how Australia is governed in the future...  

 

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^^^^^^^^^^^^

Further to my post above, states control mining within their states.

The Fed gov has a policy on the number of Uranium mines Australia operates. 

I use this as only an example and don't think it will happen but highlight it ..

What happens if a State Government finds uranium and decides to open a mine and export it... 

The law of """unintended consequences """" is full of examples of polices applied that had unseen effects years latter...  IMO a perfect example was way way way back when I think Clinton was president the US passed a law that said that a net platform had no responsibility to what was published on their platforms unlike media companies ...25 years on that decision to free google, facebook and many others of any responsibility for whats on their platforms has huge effect on the way and manner news is shared around the world both good and bad... 

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1 hour ago, Midfielder said:

The states control the numbers right now... ..

Its the numbers that are also an issue ... 

Funding also comes into the equation...

It is possible for both sides to be right on different issues ... 

NSW has carried a huge part of people returning... Vic just announced they will be resuming as well...

All states could increase how many people they take ... 

A difficult part of the issues has been  if someone returned to say Sydney and spend two weeks locked away and then went to another state they would then have to spend another two weeks locked away...

My original post was whether Vic would open up again and that appears to be yes they will and that's good... 

As an aside the pandemic has highlighted to me anyway the power the state governments have... that the Federal government unless they have specif laws in place can only suggest not impose on states their polices in many areas... essentially broad agreement to accept issues rather than having to...

Me thinks long term this will change how Australia is governed in the future...  

 

 

3 hours ago, sonar said:

The Federal govt is in full control of our national borders and who can or cannot enter the country.....full stop. This is true no matter who is in govt.

 

Edited by sonar
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Sonar 

You can if you wish pass all responsibility onto the Feds.

But simply put 100 000 people could not be sent to any capital city next week.

No state government has the capacity to handle those numbers.

The practical outcome is each state has agree to a certain number. All those numbers could be increased if funding was available and the states declared areas they could go.

All the states other than NSW and even NSW to some degree have tried to keep number's down.

The states largely control the numbers and the Feds who can come .

Some states have also said they want extra funding to increase places..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

Sonar 

You can if you wish pass all responsibility onto the Feds.

But simply put 100 000 people could not be sent to any capital city next week.

No state government has the capacity to handle those numbers.

The practical outcome is each state has agree to a certain number. All those numbers could be increased if funding was available and the states declared areas they could go.

All the states other than NSW and even NSW to some degree have tried to keep number's down.

The states largely control the numbers and the Feds who can come .

Some states have also said they want extra funding to increase places..

The bottom line still remains that the Federal Govt have the nay or yay on who enters the country. Trying to blame the states is bullshit.

Now the Feds DO also have control of offshore detention ( and even onshore ) centres which can be used as a stop and check waypoint for returning citizens.

Morrison won't do it because : a) he won't spend the money and : b) if anyone returns to the mainland with a positive result and gets lose in the community HE would be held accountable....not the states>. c) He would use private contractors and we've all seen how that has panned out and he wants no part of anything that can be linked to his govt.

Edited by sonar
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Further to Midi's comments about Victoria's resumption of hotel quarantine...it sounds very rigorous.

Once bitten etc.

 Victoria's hotel quarantine system to resume under a new agency run by Corrections Commissioner Emma Cassar
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-30/hotel-quarantine-to-resume-in-victoria/12934082

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17 hours ago, sonar said:

The bottom line still remains that the Federal Govt have the nay or yay on who enters the country. Trying to blame the states is bullshit.

Now the Feds DO also have control of offshore detention ( and even onshore ) centres which can be used as a stop and check waypoint for returning citizens.

Morrison won't do it because : a) he won't spend the money and : b) if anyone returns to the mainland with a positive result and gets lose in the community HE would be held accountable....not the states>. c) He would use private contractors and we've all seen how that has panned out and he wants no part of anything that can be linked to his govt.

FFS mate..

Its Australian's returning and the Feds have little control other than criminal reasons for banning an Australian returning...

Further I never blamed the states as such... my original post was whether the Vics would do their share again for returning Australians... They now have which is excellent news...

But to suggest the states are powerless to increase their intake of returning Australian's is simply wrong...

This is a discussion on returning Australia's

Its come down to funding ... the states will only allow so many in at one time... often saying they need more money from the Feds to open up more and secondly claiming they don't have enough officials to be allocated to  oversee operations...

Blame the Feds if you like but it is a shared responsibility as I see it... and yes Feds funding is an important aspect within the discussion... 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Midfielder said:

FFS mate..

Its Australian's returning and the Feds have little control other than criminal reasons for banning an Australian returning...

Further I never blamed the states as such... my original post was whether the Vics would do their share again for returning Australians... They now have which is excellent news...

But to suggest the states are powerless to increase their intake of returning Australian's is simply wrong...

This is a discussion on returning Australia's

Its come down to funding ... the states will only allow so many in at one time... often saying they need more money from the Feds to open up more and secondly claiming they don't have enough officials to be allocated to  oversee operations...

Blame the Feds if you like but it is a shared responsibility as I see it... and yes Feds funding is an important aspect within the discussion... 

 

 

You don't get past customs and enter the country into Australia even if you are a citizen unless the Feds say so. The Feds are the ones that issues Visas,Passports....etc and are the ones who determine who stays or goes. FACT.....Irrespective of who is in power.

To say anything else is just a lie. It is not a state responsibility.

The simple fact is that the Feds do not want the responsibility. Don't want to spend the money and are brushing it off as a state thing....... and want to blame others if things go tits up. 

We have onshore and offshore facilities that can take these people so why aren't we using them. ? 

The fact is State Govts have to use tax payers dollars to pay for quarantine when it should be the feds doing it. The government is abdicating it's responsibilities to own citizens and blaming the states for inaction.

Edited by sonar
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The Federal Health Minister can impose conditions on incoming arrivals. He has failed to do so.

The National Cabinet agreed that the states would look after incoming returnees in hotel quarantine. The states should have asked the Federal Govt for the money to run them.

The other choice that should we should be using is to use Christmas Island as a quarantine station.

The issue we have here is demarcation. The Federal Govt wants all the credit WITHOUT PAYING. 

Imo, all the Premiers are giving Morrison and Co their version of a two fingered "salute".  And the Federal Govt gets one from me too. What a bunch of entitled f***wits. :tusk:

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6 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

The Federal Health Minister can impose conditions on incoming arrivals. He has failed to do so.

The National Cabinet agreed that the states would look after incoming returnees in hotel quarantine. The states should have asked the Federal Govt for the money to run them.

The other choice that should we should be using is to use Christmas Island as a quarantine station.

The issue we have here is demarcation. The Federal Govt wants all the credit WITHOUT PAYING. 

Imo, all the Premiers are giving Morrison and Co their version of a two fingered "salute".  And the Federal Govt gets one from me too. What a bunch of entitled f***wits. :tusk:

Yep.......and I would add they want no responsibility if the shyte hits the fan. Blame someone else.

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1 hour ago, sonar said:

Yep.......and I would add they want no responsibility if the shyte hits the fan. Blame someone else.

Yep like the conservatives always do.

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14 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

@Midfielder 

You're wasting your time squire.

Those objecting to your views are so blinded by their political allegiances they are as bad as the Trump supporters they (rightly) criticise.

 

:rofl:

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The Australian Border Force (ABF) as an operationally independent body is responsible for implementing Australia's border enforcement policies, managing frontline border law enforcement and customs activities to protect the integrity of Australia's borders.

Role and functions

The Department is responsible for centrally coordinated strategy and policy leadership in relation to immigration, citizenship and multicultural affairs, domestic and national security arrangements, law enforcement, emergency management, counter-terrorism, social cohesion, the protection of our sovereignty, the integrity of our border and the resilience of our national infrastructure.

https://www.transparency.gov.au/annual-reports/department-home-affairs/reporting-year/2018-2019-4#:~:text=The Australian Border Force (ABF,the integrity of Australia's borders.

 

I can find nothing that says the NSW govt is responsible......must be in the really really small fine print.

Edited by sonar
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1 hour ago, sonar said:

The Australian Border Force (ABF) as an operationally independent body is responsible for implementing Australia's border enforcement policies, managing frontline border law enforcement and customs activities to protect the integrity of Australia's borders.

Role and functions

The Department is responsible for centrally coordinated strategy and policy leadership in relation to immigration, citizenship and multicultural affairs, domestic and national security arrangements, law enforcement, emergency management, counter-terrorism, social cohesion, the protection of our sovereignty, the integrity of our border and the resilience of our national infrastructure.

https://www.transparency.gov.au/annual-reports/department-home-affairs/reporting-year/2018-2019-4#:~:text=The Australian Border Force (ABF,the integrity of Australia's borders.

 

I can find nothing that says the NSW govt is responsible......must be in the really really small fine print.

Let's look at this problem in a different way.

Say I want to go on a overseas holiday. Do I write to Gladys or any state authority?

Let's see what smartraveller.gov.au says (https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/COVID-19):

" There's a ban on overseas travel from Australia. You can’t leave Australia unless you get an exemption from the Department of Home Affairs. "

Oh, it's Federal.

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8 minutes ago, Unlimited said:

Let's look at this problem in a different way.

Say I want to go on a overseas holiday. Do I write to Gladys or any state authority?

Let's see what smartraveller.gov.au says (https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/COVID-19):

" There's a ban on overseas travel from Australia. You can’t leave Australia unless you get an exemption from the Department of Home Affairs. "

Oh, it's Federal.

This is my point. The Federal govt could bring 30K people home tomorrow....set up the quarantine and testing on Christmas or Manus or Naru for however long it takes and then release the folks to go to their respective homes. They won't do it.

 

(PS.....It really is a stretch to suggest anyone with this point of view is the same as Trumpies MAGA'S. . )

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