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1 minute ago, Davo said:

Technically the Therapeutic Goods Act allows it because it has provisions to allow the Health Minister to make certain therapeutic products exempt from registration in a public health emergency. They did it back in March to allow unregistered face masks into Australia to top up the national stockpile.

Within the Act, Face masks fall under Devices, not medicines. There are significant difference between devices and medicines in the regulatory area.

Also, Masks fall under the lowest risk category for a device.

a vaccine falls into a high risk medicinal area.

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10 hours ago, Paul01 said:

Within the Act, Face masks fall under Devices, not medicines. There are significant difference between devices and medicines in the regulatory area.

Also, Masks fall under the lowest risk category for a device.

a vaccine falls into a high risk medicinal area.

I work in devices so I may be wrong here as I don't have the experience with medicines, but my understanding is that the exemption because of emergency applies to "therapeutic goods" generally and doesn't specify only devices.

While the risks are significantly higher I believe it's still within the minister's power to exempt medicines in the event of a national emergency.

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2 hours ago, Davo said:

I work in devices so I may be wrong here as I don't have the experience with medicines, but my understanding is that the exemption because of emergency applies to "therapeutic goods" generally and doesn't specify only devices.

While the risks are significantly higher I believe it's still within the minister's power to exempt medicines in the event of a national emergency.

I have not looked at the TGA Act for a while. It was certainly the case about 5 years ago that there was no emergency power for the minister or the delegates for medicines. That may have been amended. 

I think the TGA are waiting for EMA approval of Oxford vaccine.

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33 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

I have not looked at the TGA Act for a while. It was certainly the case about 5 years ago that there was no emergency power for the minister or the delegates for medicines. That may have been amended. 

I think the TGA are waiting for EMA approval of Oxford vaccine.

For the record I actually agree with the current approach to go through the full approval process rather than rush it through. We have no Covid patients in ICU and have had only two deaths in the last few months. There's no need to take the risk of rushing it through and it looks like we're on track to be the first country to grant general approval for a Covid vaccine. Everyone else so far has used emergency exemptions.

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In population Australia comes in at 54

In Cases per million Australia comes in at 162

In total cases we come in at 100 and look like moving further down .

In deaths per million we come in at 132

Mobile testing and contract tracing is arguably the best in the world, the NSW team which most have copied 

The outbreaks in Australia have essentially been because our quarantine safeguards have been found  lacking in various ways and we have over time identified these and have taken action to ensure as best as possible these don't happen in the future.

By any measure Australian governments collectively and most oppositions have co-operated and taken expert advise resulting in according to recent polls a considerable increase in trust in our politicians . 

With all of the above taken into account, when a state has one case or a small number of cases ... the border closures concern me... being fair if a major outbreak occurs then fine... however I do wonder aloud if its not over reacting a mate told me of a mate of his who lives in Orange NSW and had travelled to Perth to see his brother and had been in Perth for 2 days prior to the last Norther Beaches outbreak and was contacted and sent to isolation.  QLD had one case and locked down for three days.

Everything is relative, and in many ways its popular across te broad spread of the community... but I wonder aloud if say a 3 day lock down occurs should public servants and people on pensions not get paid or get half pay for those days ... because that's what happens to the arts and tourism 

The economic consequences are almost zero for 70 % of the population... but 30 % of the population it varying degrees of  hardship...

My guess is if we said public servants will get half pay in lock downs then they would need a major outbreak to be set up... and as for the states shutting borders and each other out...

Its all in the telling I guess.... but for me if a state government is incapable of using contract tracing and other methods i.e. masks, social distance etc to handle say a hand full of cases then me thinks we should start to make everyone pay the same price ... and not just heap it all on the arts and tourism ... 

 

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This article tells me that the federal politicians are telling the scientists how to manage quarantine. Same as Trump failed to tell the U.S. people that Covid-19 is spread through aerosols generated by people.

We have a f***wit of a PM

Experts call on Federal Government to acknowledge possible airborne transmission of COVID-19 in hotel quarantine http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-16/hotel-quarantine-gap-prevent-airborne-spread-of-covid-19/13057644

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's actually brilliant that this thread had almost fallen off the first page? of threads, but I've resurrected it to post this article.

It contains some amazing and interesting graphics, as well as personal anecdotes.

 

Anatomy of our battle against COVID-19
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/covid-19-spread-through-australia-over-year/13078574

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5 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

I'm putting this here not EPL thread, get past the footy bit, its a great bit of writing

 

https://thisisnotfootball.co.uk/2021/01/25/everton-3-sheffield-wednesday-0/

In their wake are coming a younger generation, unfairly demonised but with enlightened attitudes about race, gender and the environment that put their parents to shame and with an innate grasp of communications and technology that will allow them to circumnavigate failing institutions, form their own alliances across borders and shape their own future.”

😬

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4 hours ago, Paul01 said:

And Scotty from Marketing will be unhappy with this one. Jacinda Adern beats him again.

New Zealand tops Lowy Institute list as country with best response to coronavirus, Australia sits eighth http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-28/new-zealand-tops-list-as-country-with-best-covid-response/13095758

We gotta make things very clear here Scotty from marketing had nothing to do with our response to COVID. Most of the credit needs to go to the individual state premiers who collective said Scotty is a dope we will do things our own way. Hence the state border closures that remain to this day. Even I have to admit I take Gladys response on COVID in NSW over Scotty.

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7 minutes ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

We gotta make things very clear here Scotty from marketing had nothing to do with our response to COVID. Most of the credit needs to go to the individual state premiers who collective said Scotty is a dope we will do things our own way. Hence the state border closures that remain to this day. Even I have to admit I take Gladys response on COVID in NSW over Scotty.

If Scott Morrison had his way we would be in the same position as the US.

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5 hours ago, Paul01 said:

And Scotty from Marketing will be unhappy with this one. Jacinda Adern beats him again.

New Zealand tops Lowy Institute list as country with best response to coronavirus, Australia sits eighth http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-28/new-zealand-tops-list-as-country-with-best-covid-response/13095758

I wonder how they worked this out. They put NZ ahead of Vietnam even though NZ is an island with no land borders, has a population of less than 5 million and so far have had around 2,200 cases and 25 deaths. Vietnam has land borders with Cambodia, Laos and China (the source of the virus, meaning they had to deal with land travel super early before effective testing) they have a population of nearly 100 million and have had around 1,500 cases and 35 deaths.

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8 hours ago, Paul01 said:

And Scotty from Marketing will be unhappy with this one. Jacinda Adern beats him again.

New Zealand tops Lowy Institute list as country with best response to coronavirus, Australia sits eighth http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-28/new-zealand-tops-list-as-country-with-best-covid-response/13095758

HHHMMMMMMmmmmmm

Really ... no question of NZ's success ... but that in and of itself does not mean Australia has done it badly...

By almost every measure Australia has been very successful in its approach... all governments and mostly most oppositions...  

The biggest mistake by a political party was by the ALP in Victoria ... but they fixed it ....

Overall with lots of mistakes along the way Australia has been given the size of the country and our population unbelievably successful.

That some countries have done it better is great for them... 

 

 

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TWAS chatting with a long time and doing that compare thing .... 

I mentioned and then we expanded on what I said ...

We came to a conclusion that during the late 70's it started but when the greed is good message started to spread...

Somehow way way way back we trusted government, our institutions, our leading academics .... we miss trusted large corporations ....

Today the message is government is bad free enterprise is good...

There is a lot of truth also in governments lack drive  ... 

The answer is not simple... BUT BUT BUT its turned way to much into only business can do things... 

Anyone remember the days or time when we trusted our institutions 

 

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My company does an annual employee survey and they added a question this year to ask whether people would like to work from home long term. Looks like the vast majority said they would so they may be considering it.

Personally I prefer working from home. My job is at a computer all day so I don't need to go into the office. With video chat, phone and email I can talk to whoever I need to. I've saved a fortune in petrol and I get to spend way more time with my son.

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I've worked at home for almost 7 years and can't understand why people are forced to commute and work in an office unless there is a specific need to be there. It would improve congestion, save people money and reduce overheads.

A friend of mine works for one of the big 4 banks and during the height of lockdown they actually found that their employees were more productive at home than they were in the office.

My partner worked from home for a while during lockdown and deliberately went back to the office as she wanted a clear separation between home and work life and wanted an environment where she could be fully focused on her job. So I really feel it suits some people and not others, and it's smart to give people the option.

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As so many people have gone through sickness during this Covid time, I felt it was important not to "gloat" over how working from home has helped me.

Little health outcomes like:

Snacking less

Being able to book GP visits (for my script) at more convenient times

Making time for dental check ups

Going for walks before and after work

Making healthier lunches (mainly sandwiches with salad in them)

I will certainly be pushing for working some days at home after Covid.

 

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I work with the Uni so unfortunately work from home isn't an option post COVID because they own the buildings and therefore no incentive to have people work from home. At the moment 3 days at work and 2 days at home and currently enjoying the train ride to and from work by having a seat to myself :ninja:

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13 minutes ago, pseudonym said:

As so many people have gone through sickness during this Covid time, I felt it was important not to "gloat" over how working from home has helped me.

Little health outcomes like:

Snacking less

Being able to book GP visits (for my script) at more convenient times

Making time for dental check ups

Going for walks before and after work

Making healthier lunches (mainly sandwiches with salad in them)

I will certainly be pushing for working some days at home after Covid.

 

Yeah that's a big one. I used to buy lunch from a cafe near work pretty much every day. I'm eating way better now and saving heaps of money.

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I’m in the office maybe 3 times a week on average, I just find the social aspect of coffees and seeing others to be a positive.

I also have more screens at work so while I am slightly more productive at home, it is easier to do work in the office.

I also have a desk that overlooks Darling Harbour which is nice on clear days

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My eldest sister in the UK who works for the NHS has had her first COVID vaccination. She was sick for a day after having it, in a similar way you can feel a bit sick after the flu jab I guess...

Goes for second dose soon.

Parents getting their first jab in the next week.

Edited by Smoggy
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5 hours ago, Smoggy said:

My eldest sister in the UK who works for the NHS has had her first COVID vaccination. She was sick for a day after having it, in a similar way you can feel a bit sick after the flu jab I guess...

Goes for second dose soon.

Parents getting their first jab in the next week.

Father in law had his last night went well apparently, which is good, my wifes fear is is anything happening to him and her not being able to get over

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On 28/01/2021 at 5:57 AM, Paul01 said:

And Scotty from Marketing will be unhappy with this one. Jacinda Adern beats him again.

New Zealand tops Lowy Institute list as country with best response to coronavirus, Australia sits eighth http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-28/new-zealand-tops-list-as-country-with-best-covid-response/13095758

While it is important to look at how successful countries dealt with the virus, it is a concern in some ways to see league tables and who beat who, or who is 'eighth best', its not a Olympics medal chart. I see this as a small part of the rising vaccine nationalism that is starting to play out, here we see the worst and most selfish of human nature.

It is getting dirty and nasty in the EU for example, mainly over the AstraZenica vaccine production plants in Belgium not being up to the job of meeting the EU contract, and the main plant in the UK perhaps not filling the shortfall. I note Germany released a statement to say that there is no proof of efficacy in over 65 with AstraZenica, feeling is this was retaliation of some form based on what is happening in the background, It is true that data for over 65 is limited, but Germany was onboard fully previously and can only think the politics of the vaccine brought this out, news like this concerns real people...like my parents for example.

In breaking news the EU has just invoked article 16 to basically put in place movement of goods between Ireland and Northern Ireland, so basically in to the UK. This is so the EU can control the movement of vaccines and basically creates the Irish hard border that all sides so wanted to avoid. Arlene Foster the leader of NI has describe this as 'a remarkable act of hostility'.

While this argument might be born in part out of Brexit, it is about vaccine desperation, stockpiling and nationalism. As we move forward through 2021 we need to be as a world together and ******* kind to each other! This isn't a time for winners and losers, more will die unnecessarily if it is.

Unfortunately I have no faith in humanity to get this right.

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