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What's wrong with WS Wanderers?

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on and off the field the club is falling and has been falling since our last grand final appearance. Not retaining key players and building a team around them, when the team is winning fans will turn up even if the game day experience can be unpleasant due to numerous problems with security/police etc . But when the performance on the pitch is bad and the game day experience is sour then 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Build a squad keep the good coaching staff the goalkeeping staff and the trainers and also the players who want to be there and want to play for the jersey.

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The problems started during the Club World Cup. That is when the club showed that they are running a business and don't care much about the players/game.

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35 minutes ago, tardotz said:

The problems started during the Club World Cup. That is when the club showed that they are running a business and don't care much about the players/game.

Yes, but season 4 after this was the best football we have played with Romeo and the  sexual Spaniards

(great name for a band that)

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I own a wanderers hat. I call it my lucky wanderers hat because the first time I wore it we won. I've worn it a dozen times since and we've lost every time I've worn it, but I still wear it and we lose everytime I do. I still call it my lucky wanderers hat even though it isn't actually lucky.

I think most can read between the lines, but for those that think this is just the story of a hat my point is, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result - i.e. our Recruitment, Management, Performance, Sport Psychology, Community Engagement. It's pretty much the same lipstick on a pig approach each season, just with a new font and new strip and we lap it up because we all have an emotional investment in the club. The problem is the supporters and the members have an emotional investment in the club that isn't reciprocated - kind of like being in a bad relationship. 

Personally I think we can't attracted quality players because we treat players very, very poorly and this small circle of people share intell. Former players all seem to rise against us, and show little humility or recognition for their time with us.

I think the club has a massive internal culture problem. Culture doesn't improve if those running it don't see a problem or can't admit they can't change it as they treat it as a reflection on their skill. 

I could go on...

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3 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Yes, but season 4 after this was the best football we have played with Romeo and the  sexual Spaniards

(great name for a band that)

True and that's due to some unbelievable skills from those players but unless the off field culture is fixed this will not go away. 

You have to ask why we can never hold on to "good" players and build around them. 

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ZachMercer , exactly Wanderers have a serious problem attracting any quality Australian player usually any quality Aussies that come are between clubs ie: Terry Antonis, Chris Ikomedis  now Duke gives us 1 and half seasons and pisses off (Dukes wife sat in the eastern stand bay 214 near us and certainly was unhappy about the club the treatment of the wife's and seating arrangements i think she is English and very lovely lady Dukes Dad was with here and junior a lot) She stopped coming after about 4 home games.

I can go with a longer list of players that have been turfed after one season and gone on to punish us.

If the poor culture starts at the top it will be impossible to fix it unless the club gets sold, remember Sh&t flows down hill.

I was in the western stand last night night right behind the Victory coach, I was interested in his communication to the team during the whole match. Guiding players into position, encouraging good play especially with the younger players.

Rudan was very similar in the 10 minutes I watched of the Perth Western united game. From what I could see of Popa he was very vocal at players who made poor decisions obviously a very frustrated man at 2 nil down.

JPD offered very little to the players during the match only occasional guidance when there was a stoppage not that I sat there watching him all night.

A win is a win I suppose

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On 12/08/2020 at 12:35 PM, Jowel said:

I think the cause of this mess is that our foundation coach Tony Popovic left and after that nobody knew what to do. Tony was a control freak and made all the decisions, probably getting His way with most things and challenged the owners and CEO. It worked and we won stuff as everyone was on the same page.

when tony left then suddenly all these people At the club had to work out how to make decisions and work together but have failed miserably. This is similar to Alex Ferguson leaving Manchester United. A big fall from grace.

unfortunately now wsw have a club owner who towers over everyone and makes the key decisions. nobody wants to challenge that. This is a similar situation to what Lowy did with ESFC a few years back until they finally ousted him. The smurfs have now got their sh1t together and are killing it. 

it’s simple we need WSW the club to have a culture where people are empowered and all sing off the same song sheet. If we have a CEO who is too wimpy to think independently then it’s time for a change. Bring back Lyle Gorman who wasn’t afraid to pursue what he felt was best despite opposition from the owners.

The only opposition Lyle Gorman had were his mates the FFA board then new owners came in and he left to the NRL club Cronulla.

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Recruitment/retainment culture is piss poor. The perpetually swinging axe that strikes every 12 months hardly does anything to attract bigger names.

It’s become synonymous with WSW cause rather than mostly squaddies being turned over  like what occurs across the rest of the aleague, we seem to do with our best/starting players.

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Dimi Petratos to Saudi Arabia wonder weather him and Duke are at the same team 

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1 hour ago, Keithie said:

Dimi Petratos to Saudi Arabia wonder weather him and Duke are at the same team 

I think you're confused with climate.

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Posted (edited)

Its hot there

 

Edited by Keithie

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44 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

I think you're confused with climate.

Just be grateful he didn't use wether...:ninja:

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3 hours ago, hughsey said:

Recruitment/retainment culture is piss poor. The perpetually swinging axe that strikes every 12 months hardly does anything to attract bigger names.

It’s become synonymous with WSW cause rather than mostly squaddies being turned over  like what occurs across the rest of the aleague, we seem to do with our best/starting players.

Agree wholeheartedly , my concern is how do we turn this around ,  had the potential  of  building a really  big club in the context of the A league in the first few seasons, to being  where we are now.  Not sure there is a quick fix,silver bullet to make this all better again , so many things wrong.. 

 

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5 hours ago, hughsey said:

Recruitment/retainment culture is piss poor. The perpetually swinging axe that strikes every 12 months hardly does anything to attract bigger names.

It’s become synonymous with WSW cause rather than mostly squaddies being turned over  like what occurs across the rest of the aleague, we seem to do with our best/starting players.

There's something badly wrong at the club from the ownership level down.

There needs to be an external review of the whole club structure done and the advice listened to and followed up on.

It should result in a number of changes in personnel which is normal in any organisation  performing below it's capabilities, but possibly new positions being created as well, where there are obvious deficiencies in football knowledge.

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I wonder if a lot of it is about quick fixes.  Popa began by changing players regularly to change a system or fix something.  He left and we reacted believing we could cover the deficit quickly and easily.  We have not recovered from the coaching black hole he created and left.  Added to that are quick fixes - get the 'right OS coach' and all will be well.  Get an expensive marquee or change a few players here and there...  Expect instant victories to come.  We really did have it good in that first season.  No team should really be able to do what we did and perhaps that expectation still exists within the club.

As someone else said, Parra have stuck with Arthur and worked to build a team to the point where they are now competitive.  Most A League heavyweights (and some lightweights) have also had to do this.  SFC had a couple of years in the wilderness but rebuilt and have stuck with players and coaching staff who are solid and can grow into bigger roles.  We jettison everything when we fail and seem to expect to import a new team each season and we will win??!!!

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6 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

We really did have it good in that first season.  No team should really be able to do what we did and perhaps that expectation still exists within the club......

SFC had a couple of years in the wilderness but rebuilt and have stuck with players and coaching staff who are solid and can grow into bigger roles.  We jettison everything when we fail and seem to expect to import a new team each season and we will win??!!!

Such insightful comments here from all who have contributed.

It's sad to see how far the club has fallen.

As observed above, our early astronomical success has been part of our undoing, I think.

That success was intoxicating, and addictive. Anything less was always going to cause frustration and discontentment. And that has fostered a culture of disloyalty and impatience, resulting in the dumping of many players we should have persevered with, and built a stable team from.

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3 hours ago, sonar said:

Just be grateful he didn't use wether...:ninja:

Why? Do you think I'm sheepish?

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I just watched Andrew Leaderer's interview with Timmy Gilbert in Leaderer's city office, very much worth watching. I gotta say I think he is very genuine in his desires for Wanderers to be successful.

Timmy did a great Job and what a view from his office , it matches Trigerboff's (Meriton) views 

I noticed the model Jet on his left during the interview , you get that model when you buy a plane like that.  

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

When owners or coaches of clubs give interviews about the club they own or coach you have to decide that when they're speaking are they using the lips on their mouths or backside because at times you can never tell.

Edited by sonar

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1 hour ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

 

As someone else said, Parra have stuck with Arthur and worked to build a team to the point where they are now competitive.  

That was me. I'm a huge Eels fan as well.

The problem with Parra was that they tried to do the same things the Wanderers are doing now. Quick fixes, changing coaches etc... Needed new playing roster year after year after poor recruitment and were still constantly a failure. Sound familiar?

They then brought in an administrator due to salary cap breaches and previous administration irregularities. The administrator completely replaced the board and CEO and things have slowly turned around in time. Kept the same coach, despite wooden spoon years, for stability. It's been tough following them but there is now light at the end of the tunnel. Stable coaching now, good recruitment, finances also stable now. A rebuilding of a previously severely broken club.

They have stuck with Arthur as coach now for 7 years, despite his lack of success. It's finally showing the rewards . He is a Western Sydney boy born and bred and understands the western Sydney culture of being battlers. It's paying dividends finally. If it wasn't for Covid-19, the Eels would be easily averaging over 20000 this season. If we had done things right over the past few seasons, I'm sure we wouldn't be that far behind, without Covid interruptions.

I'm not sure we need to get rid of Lederer per se, (he has the money and so does his mates), but I'm certainly sure we need to jettison JT.

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Rule one as an owner of a western sydney team renowned for being cheap

Don't show off your private jets or harbour views eh.

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2 hours ago, Keithie said:

I just watched Andrew Leaderer's interview with Timmy Gilbert in Leaderer's city office, very much worth watching. I gotta say I think he is very genuine in his desires for Wanderers to be successful.

Timmy did a great Job and what a view from his office , it matches Trigerboff's (Meriton) views 

I noticed the model Jet on his left during the interview , you get that model when you buy a plane like that.  

 

 

 

Hope Tim didn't call him Andrew. 

Paul Lederer.

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The line that got my attention was when Lederer said “we have the best fans money can buy”.

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He (Tim Gilbert) says we a lot. What role does he have with the club?

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5 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

I wonder if a lot of it is about quick fixes.  Popa began by changing players regularly to change a system or fix something.  He left and we reacted believing we could cover the deficit quickly and easily.  We have not recovered from the coaching black hole he created and left.  Added to that are quick fixes - get the 'right OS coach' and all will be well.  Get an expensive marquee or change a few players here and there...  Expect instant victories to come.  We really did have it good in that first season.  No team should really be able to do what we did and perhaps that expectation still exists within the club.

As someone else said, Parra have stuck with Arthur and worked to build a team to the point where they are now competitive.  Most A League heavyweights (and some lightweights) have also had to do this.  SFC had a couple of years in the wilderness but rebuilt and have stuck with players and coaching staff who are solid and can grow into bigger roles.  We jettison everything when we fail and seem to expect to import a new team each season and we will win??!!!

We should never have gotten rid of Babel, I didn’t agree with it at the time and I still don’t. Especially mid season in a league where the squad size limitations and salary cap stitches up clubs and only gives them a brief window during the off-season to properly buy/replace players.

He should’ve at least been given until the end of the season to try and turn things around as no incoming manager was going to be able to meaningfully change any personnel. Sure enough, JPD has come in using the same players and tbh I can’t really tell any difference in our style of play. 

Chopping and changing managers every 5 mins is inferior, small club behaviour and we’ve become as much. 

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If club knew how COVID was going to screw up any chance of a good replacement they may have kept Babbel

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11 hours ago, wswnick said:

If club knew how COVID was going to screw up any chance of a good replacement they may have kept Babbel

Covid's going to screw up season 20/21 as well....can't see full stadiums for the foreseeable future and if anything the clubs that are going to suffer the most are the new ones as no opportunities to build momentum crowd wise. I see us just plodding along unspectacularly. Membership for all clubs becomes a difficult one due to the crowd restrictions

 

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I watched the Lederer interview. Definitely a puff piece, which doesn't want to dwell on the negatives. Yes, lots of positive things have happened with this club. There have also been a number of failings over a number of years that deserve some accountability. I am not denying he sounds passionate and committed to the club. I think it would go a long way to acknowledge the part that club management have played in the position we're currently in. Mistakes have been made, own up to it. Maybe recognise that you don't have the skills required to handle the football side of operations and commit to hiring a Director of Football to take the reigns to try and correct the ship. I hope that this comes about in the club review. But if it is club management reviewing their own performance, I can't see them being critical enough of their failings.

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