Carl Robinson Discussion

[pseudonym]

But the issue is that we don't win stuff

That comes from not having long term planning like Wendy is talking about

We don't see instant results and then sack the coach

Realistically we won't make finals this coming season

[StringerBellend]

5 minutes ago, pseudonym said:

But the issue is that we don't win stuff

That comes from not having long term planning like Wendy is talking about

We don't see instant results and then sack the coach

Realistically we won't make finals this coming season

Why not? Look at last years finals how many of them had a coach that had been there more than one season? 
 

it’s the a league while I agree we should have a long term plan, but my expectation is that we aim to win stuff every year. Carlo has been brought in before preseason there are plenty of squad places and scope for him to form a team and he’ll be measured on that 

our issue hasn’t been the managers we’ve sacked it’s been that we’ve hired the wrong ones 

Gumby, Babbel and JP did nothing to suggest that keeping them Would improve us long term

we shouldn’t just keep a manager for the sake of stability

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by StringerBellend

[pseudonym]

14 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

our issue hasn’t been the managers we’ve sacked it’s been that we’ve hired the wrong ones 

Gumby, Babbel and JP did nothing to suggest that keeping them Would improve us long term

we shouldn’t just keep a manager for the sake of stability

 

I agree.

Part of having a long term strategy would be to create a "Director of Football" role within the club to make sure our signings align with long term goals.

Trying to turn around WSW's fortunes is too big a task for John Tsatsimas. Let him deal with finances.

I don't hate Carl but it does seem like a panic decision to me.

Had JP not left, I would have expected the club to keep him in the job for the entire season (regardless of results) while the board spend the whole year interviewing potential candidates and making an informed decision.

[sonar]

21 minutes ago, pseudonym said:

I agree.

Part of having a long term strategy would be to create a "Director of Football" role within the club to make sure our signings align with long term goals.

Trying to turn around WSW's fortunes is too big a task for John Tsatsimas. Let him deal with finances.

I don't hate Carl but it does seem like a panic decision to me.

Had JP not left, I would have expected the club to keep him in the job for the entire season (regardless of results) while the board spend the whole year interviewing potential candidates and making an informed decision.

I may be wrong here and am assuming a lot but because it happened so quickly I think JPdM left when he found out they were talking to CR and realised the gig was up....imho....

[StringerBellend]

2 hours ago, pseudonym said:

I agree.

Part of having a long term strategy would be to create a "Director of Football" role within the club to make sure our signings align with long term goals.

Trying to turn around WSW's fortunes is too big a task for John Tsatsimas. Let him deal with finances.

I don't hate Carl but it does seem like a panic decision to me.

Had JP not left, I would have expected the club to keep him in the job for the entire season (regardless of results) while the board spend the whole year interviewing potential candidates and making an informed decision.

JP was booted, once the club knew they had until end of december to start the season they went looking for a better manager. The club can't afford to piss a season away interviewing new candidates. They found a guy with good international experience, knowledge of the A League and has proven he can get results in the league, what's not to like.

[wendybr]

5 hours ago, pseudonym said:

I agree.

Part of having a long term strategy would be to create a "Director of Football" role within the club to make sure our signings align with long term goals.

Trying to turn around WSW's fortunes is too big a task for John Tsatsimas. Let him deal with finances.

I don't hate Carl but it does seem like a panic decision to me.

Had JP not left, I would have expected the club to keep him in the job for the entire season (regardless of results) while the board spend the whole year interviewing potential candidates and making an informed decision.

Totally this, except that CR does excite me more than JP. 

Not sure who said it a few days back, but in watching the Jets at the end of the last season, I too thought "Why can't we have a coach like that?"

We should expect improvement, but not to win the league this coming season. We've had our share of miracles for now IMO.

I'll be happy with a team whose names I can be bothered to learn, and who can make me feel excited to watch, a manager who builds a team with confidence and a fighting spirit, and a club where you can feel that continuity is a possibility. 

 

[wendybr]

6 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Total rubbish we should be winning stuff, we are Western Sydney not the central coast 

Gotta run before you can walk. And let's face it, we've been no better than crawling for years.

I don't know what complex combination of factors has been at play to make us so hopeless for year after year, but part of the priblem has been that we expect more of Season 1, without the patient building that almost always accompanies success in any field.

It took SFC years of misery and 2 years of patient building to get to where they are now.

Stamping our feet and demanding instant success because "We are Western Sydney, not the Central Coast" is arrogant, and living in the past. 

Success will have to be built up, most likely.

[Zakman]

5 hours ago, wendybr said:

Gotta run before you can walk. And let's face it, we've been no better than crawling for years.

I don't know what complex combination of factors has been at play to make us so hopeless for year after year, but part of the priblem has been that we expect more of Season 1, without the patient building that almost always accompanies success in any field.

It took SFC years of misery and 2 years of patient building to get to where they are now.

Stamping our feet and demanding instant success because "We are Western Sydney, not the Central Coast" is arrogant, and living in the past. 

Success will have to be built up, most likely.

I would argue that those "years of misery and 2 years of patient building" caused SFC to lose support which even the subsequent success has not brought back or even built upon. Their crowds in the last few years did not match the success they have had on the field or even the type of crowds they were getting earlier in their history.

My point here is that in a fickle footballing environment which Sydney unfortunately is, a club cannot afford to have years of patient building up because people will just lose interest and would be unlikely to return as has been the case with WSW. The other issue with patiently building a team is that there is no guarantee that those players will be there in future seasons, especially the young players who are off OS the moment they show any promise.

For me, I want to follow a team that I know has done everything possible within its means to win the forthcoming season, not building a team with the aim to win it in two years who will most likely lose players and then have to start again. Why bother taking out a membership then? I know I sound fickle but that is the reality of the comp we compete in!

 

[StringerBellend]

7 hours ago, wendybr said:

Gotta run before you can walk. And let's face it, we've been no better than crawling for years.

I don't know what complex combination of factors has been at play to make us so hopeless for year after year, but part of the priblem has been that we expect more of Season 1, without the patient building that almost always accompanies success in any field.

It took SFC years of misery and 2 years of patient building to get to where they are now.

Stamping our feet and demanding instant success because "We are Western Sydney, not the Central Coast" is arrogant, and living in the past. 

Success will have to be built up, most likely.

Rudan one year at Phoenix Massive turn around, The WU didn’t exist and made the finals,

Talay took Phoenix on made finals and played decent footy made the finals. Fowler made finals with a cluster Fck of roar. Dude at city with the weird glasses first year as coach finals....

Popa went to Perth and made a grand final in his first year, another team not far from parramatta in its first year made the finals 

Of course I agree we should have a Long term plan, and that’s our problem Popa left and there was nothing lined up, and here we are. But there is no point in keeping the wrong guy or players just for consistency, that’s mad

To be fair to the club, they have spent a **** load on the training facilities and youth system, so there is a long term plan, they as of yet haven’t found the right person to execute it.

They hung on to Babbel into a second season as they wanted consistency, but you said it yourself he wasn’t the dude.

JP wasn’t it, they knew that but in middle of Covid they needed to have a manager in place for a potential October start 

Hopefully this is the dude is it.

its not stamping feet, we have the biggest  junior area, best stadium, fans etc in a tin pot league of course we should expect some level of success, we ain’t the mariners. If a team that didn’t exist the season prior playing out of a collection of afl ovals to about 1000 fans can make the finals, then there is no reason why we can’t

We are a big club and club and fans should just accept it 

besides it’s football, stop with the logic 

Edited October 19, 2020 by StringerBellend

[Stokz]

You really need to see progress, season on season.

In a 12 team comp now, and half make finals, that should be the bare minimum expectation in your first season in charge.

S2 top 3 (and getting close to a grand final)

S3 - you need to be winning it (premiers / GF etc)

With the academy, to get good players out of there will take time no doubt, my guess at least 5-10 years. Perhaps will Covid it might mean a bit earlier. Maybe they need to be having SAP teams as well.

 

 

[StringerBellend]

as for living in the past If we are now happy with being central coast or jets, or western united then we have bigger problems then I thought

[Smoggy]

Wendy is half correct in respect that to build a team that finishes  top of the comp does take some building and time....usually. When we stormed out of the blocks season 1 that was unusual and a great ride,  but I don't see anyone here seriously expecting a return to that.

What we do expect as a club in a comp this size and with the resources we have is to be competitive in the top 6 and have a shake at the finals most seasons than not. This is what I would consider the majority stand point by WSW fans, Wendy is looking at what i consider an outlier and smaller group above this.

I am also a bit sick of hearing about how ESFC suffered for their success lol I DONT CARE lol It has zero thought in my mind about our club or how we should achieve success

The A leauge hasn't been around long enough for any group of fans to truly suffer..including us. But then I do acknowledge you have to take the soft cock supporters in Sydney in to account lol 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Smoggy

[StringerBellend]

30 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Wendy is half correct in respect that to build a team that finishes  top of the comp does take some building and time....usually. When we stormed out of the blocks season 1 that was unusual and a great ride,  but I don't see anyone here seriously expecting a return to that.

What we do expect as a club in a comp this size and with the resources we have is to be competitive in the top 6 and have a shake at the finals most seasons than not. This is what I would consider the majority stand point by WSW fans, Wendy is looking at what i consider an outlier and smaller group above this.

I am also a bit sick of hearing about how ESFC suffered for their success lol I DONT CARE lol It has zero thought in my mind about our club or how we should achieve success

The A leauge hasn't been around long enough for any group of fans to truly suffer..including us. But then I do acknowledge you have to take the soft cock supporters in Sydney in to account lol 

 

Exactly I don’t demand we win it every year,however we should be in it every year too 4 and we should have the aim of winning it every year

get a good coach

get 4 out of 5 of your foreigners right

solid Australian players around them 

1 “special” player and you will be in top 4 from there is knock out anyway 

[Davo]

Have Sydney FC really suffered?

In their 15 seasons they've finished in the bottom half of the table 4 times (27%) and never finished in the bottom half in consecutive seasons. Their worst ever finish was 9th in an 11 team comp in 2010-11.

In our 8 seasons we've finished in the bottom half of the table 5 times (63%) and done so in the last 4 seasons straight.

We took a team that finished 2nd and made the Grand Final then blamed the move away from Parramatta for our decline. They took a team that finished 2nd and made the Grand Final, moved away from their home ground and won the double.

So our 4 most recent seasons are as bad as the worst 4 seasons in their entire history and our most recent season had the same finishing position as their worst ever season. Every time they finished bottom half they made changes and were back in the top half again the following season. We finished 6th and the response was to finish 7th, 8th and then 9th.

If we can take anything from what Sydney FC have done it's that big clubs don't tolerate prolonged periods of failure. They have a bad season, they make changes and they immediately improve.

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, Davo said:

Have Sydney FC really suffered?

In their 15 seasons they've finished in the bottom half of the table 4 times (27%) and never finished in the bottom half in consecutive seasons. Their worst ever finish was 9th in an 11 team comp in 2010-11.

In our 8 seasons we've finished in the bottom half of the table 5 times (63%) and done so in the last 4 seasons straight.

We took a team that finished 2nd and made the Grand Final then blamed the move away from Parramatta for our decline. They took a team that finished 2nd and made the Grand Final, moved away from their home ground and won the double.

So our 4 most recent seasons are as bad as the worst 4 seasons in their entire history and our most recent season had the same finishing position as their worst ever season. Every time they finished bottom half they made changes and were back in the top half again the following season. We finished 6th and the response was to finish 7th, 8th and then 9th.

If we can take anything from what Sydney FC have done it's that big clubs don't tolerate prolonged periods of failure. They have a bad season, they make changes and they immediately improve.

The success we had at the very start coincided with ESFC still being very average..they were still napping....but not suffering...

This clouds Wendy's memories...as she is always banging on about how ESFC have suffered for their success 

[sonar]

8 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

The success we had at the very start coincided with ESFC still being very average..they were still napping....but not suffering...

This clouds Wendy's memories...as she is always banging on about how ESFC have suffered for their success 

Thank god she's not a Boro supporter eh....!....her head would of been done in ages ago.....!

[wendybr]

9 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

Exactly I don’t demand we win it every year,however we should be in it every year too 4 and we should have the aim of winning it every year

get a good coach

get 4 out of 5 of your foreigners right

solid Australian players around them 

1 “special” player and you will be in top 4 from there is knock out anyway 

I'm actually not suggesting we shouldn't aim to make the finals...we definitely should! And even the top 4.

But I  still think that many of us do have inflated expectations and instant demands of the team. We want that intoxicating dream run again...now. Understandable, of course!

But my gut feeling is that this could be somehow destabilising to the sort of steady improvement/progress we need to see. 

[wendybr]

7 hours ago, Smoggy said:

The success we had at the very start coincided with ESFC still being very average..they were still napping....but not suffering...

This clouds Wendy's memories...as she is always banging on about how ESFC have suffered for their success 

Lol...not suffering??

They were crap for 7 years! I was there!

"7th Heaven" more or less, for more or less  7 years!

Their supporters suffered! They were frustrated and humiliated...season after season. 

And my point isn't that they suffered for their success. They suffered until they got a strong manager (Stringer is right about that being the key) who couldn't transform them in one season, but did turn them around in 2 seasons.

My point is that we want a team to connect to, and to be proud of. But we might not be top of the League overnight.

And that will be OK for me. 

[THEWANDERERSPOST]

32 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Lol...not suffering??

They were crap for 7 years! I was there!

"7th Heaven" more or less, for more or less  7 years!

Their supporters suffered! They were frustrated and humiliated...season after season. 

And my point isn't that they suffered for their success. They suffered until they got a strong manager (Stringer is right about that being the key) who couldn't transform them in one season, but did turn them around in 2 seasons.

My point is that we want a team to connect to, and to be proud of. But we might not be top of the League overnight.

And that will be OK for me. 

As much as I want immediate success, Rome was not built in a day.

[StringerBellend]

41 minutes ago, wendybr said:

IWe want that intoxicating dream run again...now. Understandable, of course!

we do that’s football support that’s why we go at least in part

 

 

[StringerBellend]

33 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Lol...not suffering??

They were crap for 7 years! I was there!

"7th Heaven" more or less, for more or less  7 years!

Their supporters suffered! They were frustrated and humiliated...season after season. 

And my point isn't that they suffered for their success. They suffered until they got a strong manager (Stringer is right about that being the key) who couldn't transform them in one season, but did turn them around in 2 seasons.

My point is that we want a team to connect to, and to be proud of. But we might not be top of the League overnight.

And that will be OK for me. 

Did you agree with me?

are you feeling ok?

[wendybr]

12 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

Did you agree with me?

are you feeling ok?

[wendybr]

37 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

we do that’s football support that’s why we go at least in part

Sure...but the dream will only eventuate now and then...and that makes it so precious.

Not many would agree with me...but I wouldn't want to be at the top all the time. The journey/struggle to the top makes it special.

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Sure...but the dream will only eventuate now and then...and that makes it so precious.

Not many would agree with me...but I wouldn't want to be at the top all the time. The journey/struggle to the top makes it special.

I get enough journey and struggle from Everton 

[alexd]

12 hours ago, wendybr said:

Sure...but the dream will only eventuate now and then...and that makes it so precious.

Not many would agree with me...but I wouldn't want to be at the top all the time. The journey/struggle to the top makes it special.

Damn right... 

I wouldn't mind six years straight at the top, breaking records and peeping our bitter rival in the trophy count !!!

[mack]

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OdKrWjlpoPGX

World Game podcast type thing with Robinson. We're probably not going to get more than a handful of senior players bought.

[sonar]

59 minutes ago, mack said:

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OdKrWjlpoPGX

World Game podcast type thing with Robinson. We're probably not going to get more than a handful of senior players bought.

Good podcast. Glad I had a listen Wil be interesting to see how things unfold.

 

[wendybr]

8 hours ago, alexd said:

Damn right... 

I wouldn't mind six years straight at the top, breaking records and peeping our bitter rival in the trophy count !!!

Yeah....six years might be OK.

After that, without the ups and downs...the struggles...I'd get bored with being top dog. 

[Zakman]

3 hours ago, mack said:

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OdKrWjlpoPGX

World Game podcast type thing with Robinson. We're probably not going to get more than a handful of senior players bought.

Oh no! He is talking about "3 year projects" and "no quick fix". And another season gone!

[mack]

9 minutes ago, Zakman said:

Oh no! He is talking about "3 year projects" and "no quick fix". And another season gone!

Robinson really needs to be a good coach because he's got the same first team rejects that failed us last year and our youth players were terrible this year in NPL1 & haven't been that great in NPL2 either before that.