Carl Robinson Discussion

[sonar]

26 minutes ago, Keithie said:

well Sonar what are ya gunna do now let life continue to get you down or accept the reality.

The reality is Wanderers will continue to focus on the development of youth and Lederer's plan is to continue to develop these kids not to make wanderers great but to make money on selling them.

Lets face the true reality and we were only great when we were owned by the FFA , 2 very good years and then sold to Lederer, 2016 was a good year but under achieved,  true ?

The next year we dumped all the players that made 2016 a good year and since then,  mediocre performances ,treated poorly by coaches like Popa etc:

Carl Robertson will earn his salary carrying out what the boss wants like every business , true ? or he quits.

Wanderers will never be a big club like Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory because we don't invest and really cannot attract the better than average soccer player and when we have had a class Aussie player they move on quickly. Jamison , Ikonomedis. Take a look around the A league now and how many good ex wanderers are out there one we sacked a year or 2 ago is mow selected to represent Australia 

We do not get the Luke Bratten's the Jamie Mclaren's the Curtis Goods we get cheaper players like Dylan McGowan, James Troisi etc:    

 I have been with the wanderers as early as day 1 maybe you could call it day 0.

Wanderers will have a very good season soon maybe next year if Robertson can get some quality players, better than some of the lazy lot we have this year but he may be forced to promote 3 or 4 more kids .

If so same old same old so rather than brood over it accept it and get positive one day we may be ok. 

   

Oh FFs sake...get over someone having an opinion you don't like.....and while your at it I would argue that you make the point(s) that we all are.....something is amiss in how we are run.....

The next year we dumped all the players that made 2016 a good year and since then,  mediocre performances ,treated poorly by coaches like Popa etc:

Wanderers will never be a big club like Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory because we don't invest and really cannot attract the better than average soccer player and when we have had a class Aussie player they move on quickly. Jamison , Ikonomedis.

We do not get the Luke Bratten's the Jamie Mclaren's the Curtis Goods we get cheaper players like Dylan McGowan, James Troisi etc

.....and so the current manager couldn't do crap with what he had this season and if according to you we will never be as good as ESFC or Victory because we will only ever get the no frills instead of the name brands perhaps you can enlighten me on how the **** we do better if nothing changes. ? 

I know....I'll walk around saying we're world beaters that'll fix it....LOL

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by sonar

[Wobblies]

7 minutes ago, pseudonym said:

looks like it was 5,068

I just search for information on Ultimate ALeague website

https://www.ultimatealeague.com/

That 5,068 figure is only one higher than our lowest ALeague crowd (pre COVID) of 5,067

WSW vs Brisbane 2-2

Glen Willows (Mudgee)

Seems a bit on the high side, someone was counting legs.

[Smoggy]

8 minutes ago, Ossified said:

Seems a bit on the high side, someone was counting legs.

If so i think a few centipedes attended and were added.. 

Creative crowd number recording eh lol 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Smoggy

[WHACKO]

57 minutes ago, Keithie said:

Wanderers will have a very good season soon maybe next year if Robertson can get some quality players, better than some of the lazy lot we have this year but he may be forced to promote 3 or 4 more kids .

If so same old same old so rather than brood over it accept it and get positive one day we may be ok. 

I thought you said the new dawn was coming this Sunday...after 24 rounds he's finally worked out what's been going wrong.

Then it's maybe next year.

Then again we maybe OK one day.

The way your back pedalling next year we'll win the spoon

The year after we'll be relegated.

[Hughesy]

If there were 5k there last night then Carl Robinson is winning world manager of the year 😂

[TwoLeftFoots]

When he signed for us, didn't care too much, yes he had done well in his few days at Newcastle, but didn't k is much about him.

It was a pleasing surprise to see players actually wanting to come here, and to miss off half the league for their players coming here.

We are scoring goals,  should be more goals than we have, but we have scored plenty. The defense was mostly unchanged. With younger players being the better option. The one defender he brought in has been immense.

I'm happy to give him the off season, up until half way into next season. Hopefully we can attract so good foreigners and/or good defenders. I dunno. It's all above my pay grade

Edited May 27, 2021 by TwoLeftFoots

[GD07]

Don’t let anyone tell you the gear out in western Sydney is no good. 

[VedranRozic]

Zidane is free. Bit of a temper, but….

[StringerBellend]

Big Sam

 

bring it.....

[mack]

We just have to beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur, then Macarthur draw with the Nix, then the Roar beat Perth or draw.

Or beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur then Perth beat the Roar, Macarthur vs Wellington is a draw, SFC defeat the Roar and all the Roar's losses combine to make up their goal difference advantage.

We can even finish as high as 5th if Wellington vs Perth is a draw, we beat the Roar, WU beat Macarthur, Perth beat the Roar, we beat Adelaide, Macarthur & Wellington draw, Roar lose to SFC and Newcastle beat Perth and all the Roar's losses drop their goal difference!

Simple.

[sonar]

1 minute ago, mack said:

We just have to beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur, then Macarthur draw with the Nix, then the Roar beat Perth or draw.

Or beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur then Perth beat the Roar, Macarthur vs Wellington is a draw, SFC defeat the Roar and all the Roar's losses combine to make up their goal difference advantage.

We can even finish as high as 5th if Wellington vs Perth is a draw, we beat the Roar, WU beat Macarthur, Perth beat the Roar, we beat Adelaide, Macarthur & Wellington draw, Roar lose to SFC and Newcastle beat Perth and all the Roar's losses drop their goal difference!

Simple.

.....and you think this will happen....?

[mack]

24 minutes ago, sonar said:

.....and you think this will happen....?

It's only 5 out of 18 potential results to go our way (2 of them being in our own hands) then it's a 2/3 for the last one! Or 7 out of 21 plus a goal difference switch! Or 8 from 24 plus the GD change.

Stop being so pessimistic.

[sonar]

1 minute ago, mack said:

It's only 6 out of 18 potential results to go our way (2 of them being in our own hands) then it's a 2/3 for the last one! Or 7 out of 21 plus a goal difference switch! Or 8 from 24 plus the GD change.

Stop being so pessimistic.

 

[Smoggy]

11 minutes ago, mack said:

We just have to beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur, then Macarthur draw with the Nix, then the Roar beat Perth or draw.

Or beat the Roar and Adelaide then Nix vs Perth is a draw, WU beat Macarthur then Perth beat the Roar, Macarthur vs Wellington is a draw, SFC defeat the Roar and all the Roar's losses combine to make up their goal difference advantage.

We can even finish as high as 5th if Wellington vs Perth is a draw, we beat the Roar, WU beat Macarthur, Perth beat the Roar, we beat Adelaide, Macarthur & Wellington draw, Roar lose to SFC and Newcastle beat Perth and all the Roar's losses drop their goal difference!

Simple.

All that falls in to line, then we are winning 2-1 at Adelaide, 96th min and we fail to mark a corner..2-2..out...

[mack]

Alright, looks like I've found the proper last scenario, which is the one I wasn't sure about:

• Perth win vs Wellington
• WU beat Macarthur
• Perth beat Roar
• WSW beat Adelaide
• Mac vs WP is drawn
• Roar lose to SFC
• Goal difference turnaround with Roar and us.

I think this is actually the 2nd likely in terms of needing specific results (we only need 6 results out of 18) with the only upset being the Western United vs Macarthur game (and us managing to win two games).

The other two require 7 or 8 specific results plus the goal difference.

My goal was to see if we could be mathematically eliminated by certain results in that match before our one even if we beat the Roar, but that isn't the case. There also seems to be a way that if Wellington win we can make the 6:

• Nix beat Perth
• We beat Roar
• WU beat Macarthur or it's a draw.
• Perth beat Brisbane
• We beat Adelaide
• Wellington beat Macarthur
• Newcastle vs Perth is a draw or a Newcastle win
• The goal difference turnaround with Roar also happens.

This creates a ladder where we finish 6th on 37 points but ahead on GD against Brisbane and Macarthur.

So after all that, no, we can't be eliminated until we fail to beat Brisbane. Nix vs Perth being a draw is still the only remotely likely scenario to make the 6.

[Keithie]

Well I am backing it to happen  Sonar is your blood pressure ok now it was bit high earlier, what are you backing to happen   

[sonar]

1 minute ago, Keithie said:

Well I am backing it to happen  Sonar is your blood pressure ok now it was bit high earlier, what are you backing to happen   

More of this..............especially if CR stays.....

The next year we dumped all the players that made 2016 a good year and since then,  mediocre performances ,treated poorly by coaches like Popa etc:

Wanderers will never be a big club like Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory because we don't invest and really cannot attract the better than average soccer player and when we have had a class Aussie player they move on quickly. Jamison , Ikonomedis.

We do not get the Luke Bratten's the Jamie Mclaren's the Curtis Goods we get cheaper players like Dylan McGowan, James Troisi etc

...you need to be taking better meds Keithie.........the ones you have aren't working champ..

[StringerBellend]

Prematch speech for the next game 

 

[Hughesy]

13 hours ago, TwoLeftFoots said:

I'm happy to give him the off season, up until half way into next season. Hopefully we can attract so good foreigners and/or good defenders. I dunno. It's all above my pay grade

This is my biggest concern right now. The club hang onto him and over the off season Carl brings in all his management group contracted bum chums like an old boys club. The club sack him halfway through the season, we write off yet another year and are left with players a new manager won’t want and we start the cycle of ‘giving it time for the manager build his own team’ all over again. If that happens then you can basically kiss goodbye any chance of improvement for another 12-18 months.

[Keithie]

Hope you have a better day today Sonar , yesterday must have been difficult for you , 

I think Carl Robinson will certainly make some Adjustments to the defence for Sunday Cancar and Mourdakutis might even get a start , Ali Auglah may get a run at Centre forward and  Baccus at 10 (he will be great as learns this position good Move Carl). This bloke is gonna be ok also Reuben Awaritefe may be a bit early but he is a real athlete and got the blue blood also.  

We have all raved at Natta's open play he is very good but he leaves a bit to be desired in the box on set pieces.   

 

[Zelinsky]

16 hours ago, Keithie said:

well Sonar what are ya gunna do now let life continue to get you down or accept the reality.

The reality is Wanderers will continue to focus on the development of youth and Lederer's plan is to continue to develop these kids not to make wanderers great but to make money on selling them.

Lets face the true reality and we were only great when we were owned by the FFA , 2 very good years and then sold to Lederer, 2016 was a good year but under achieved,  true ?

The next year we dumped all the players that made 2016 a good year and since then,  mediocre performances ,treated poorly by coaches like Popa etc:

Carl Robertson will earn his salary carrying out what the boss wants like every business , true ? or he quits.

Wanderers will never be a big club like Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory because we don't invest and really cannot attract the better than average soccer player and when we have had a class Aussie player they move on quickly. Jamison , Ikonomedis. Take a look around the A league now and how many good ex wanderers are out there one we sacked a year or 2 ago is mow selected to represent Australia 

We do not get the Luke Bratten's the Jamie Mclaren's the Curtis Goods we get cheaper players like Dylan McGowan, James Troisi etc:    

 I have been with the wanderers as early as day 1 maybe you could call it day 0.

Wanderers will have a very good season soon maybe next year if Robertson can get some quality players, better than some of the lazy lot we have this year but he may be forced to promote 3 or 4 more kids .

If so same old same old so rather than brood over it accept it and get positive one day we may be ok. 

   

Well well. The "true reality" you are referring to sounds more like an opinion piece to me. Here is alternate reality for you:

1) WSW played by the FFA salary cap rules, others didn't. It all flows from there, that's why the quality Aussies ended up elsewhere.

2) We didn't dump all the good S4 players. Bridgey, NTS and Jamo were all poached at the same time. There was nothing the club could do about it, and there was no one available to adequately replace them. Andreu asked for marquee money, Alberto for too much money. Jumpei for Castelen is on Popa.

3) End then there are the players. After S3 Vukovic had agree terms with WSW, went back on his word, and elsewhere. After S5, JT and Popa flew to Greece to negotiate Antonis out of his contract with his Greek club, just to learn that the player had a change of heart. The list goes on.

4) We were prepared to invest big time for Eduardo in S5, invested big time in S6, big time last season, and even bigger this season. That the expectations fell flat in S6 is on Popa and Gombau, in S8 on Babbel, this season on CR.

5) CR prides himself that players had joined because of him, and that he gets the best of out of players. Troisi, Duke, Mutch, CR - they were talking about titles when they joined. And here we are. If the players he recruited are the ones he is now throwing under the bus then both his recruitment and people's management are questionable.

6) His managerial skills on match day are woeful. He is as flexible as a German oak tree in a cold winter's night. After a few rounds we had been found out, and the others exploited our weaknesses.

7) If you believe that Lederer is running this club to make money then you are mistaken.

My "true reality": CR been found out by the player, they lost faith in him, he lost the locker he largely built. The big question is if the club trusts CR enough to do better next season, or if WSW are likely to see a repeat of same old same old under his management.

He's a gas bag. Muscat in.

 

 

[JustWandering]

1 hour ago, Keithie said:

Ali Auglah may get a run at Centre forward and  Baccus at 10 (he will be great as learns this position good Move Carl).

Baccus's performance in the number 10 role was one of the few positives from Wednesday's game. Now that our season is over (relying on WU to win another game is dreamland, they are dead in the water; and we'll be lucky to get a point out of our last 2 games), I hope Baccus is given the full 180 remaining minutes at 10 to grow into that role while the pressure off. The preseason starts now.

[Keithie]

1 hour ago, FCB said:

Well well. The "true reality" you are referring to sounds more like an opinion piece to me. Here is alternate reality for you:

1) WSW played by the FFA salary cap rules, others didn't. It all flows from there, that's why the quality Aussies ended up elsewhere.

2) We didn't dump all the good S4 players. Bridgey, NTS and Jamo were all poached at the same time. There was nothing the club could do about it, and there was no one available to adequately replace them. Andreu asked for marquee money, Alberto for too much money. Jumpei for Castelen is on Popa.

3) End then there are the players. After S3 Vukovic had agree terms with WSW, went back on his word, and elsewhere. After S5, JT and Popa flew to Greece to negotiate Antonis out of his contract with his Greek club, just to learn that the player had a change of heart. The list goes on.

4) We were prepared to invest big time for Eduardo in S5, invested big time in S6, big time last season, and even bigger this season. That the expectations fell flat in S6 is on Popa and Gombau, in S8 on Babbel, this season on CR.

5) CR prides himself that players had joined because of him, and that he gets the best of out of players. Troisi, Duke, Mutch, CR - they were talking about titles when they joined. And here we are. If the players he recruited are the ones he is now throwing under the bus then both his recruitment and people's management are questionable.

6) His managerial skills on match day are woeful. He is as flexible as a German oak tree in a cold winter's night. After a few rounds we had been found out, and the others exploited our weaknesses.

7) If you believe that Lederer is running this club to make money then you are mistaken.

My "true reality": CR been found out by the player, they lost faith in him, he lost the locker he largely built. The big question is if the club trusts CR enough to do better next season, or if WSW are likely to see a repeat of same old same old under his management.

He's a gas bag. Muscat in.

 

 

1, wanderers  they had no choice

2, why did they run, don't think bridgy went anywhere but it was about money or wanted out ? the rest is about money  ?

3, that sounds like a lot of bad luck or just plain poor recruiting  2 players going back on the word  ,there is more to that story

4, not relevant, 

5, I think that is your opinion reality may be somewhere else. Have you ever employed someone you thought would be great and they let you down , well it happens and it happens a lot both in business and in sport. It does not make a person a bad recruiter or bad manager. 

6, Again your opinion , woeful compared to what , the opinions of a bunch of lounge chair experts, me being one.    

7, Lederer is not in this for the fun of it let me tell you , he is looking for profit, he does not throw money away easily , if he can't start seeing a return on his investment soon he will sell us guaranteed and we certainly wont see it coming.

Muscat in your kidding , He lived off the shirt tails of Ernie Merrick and when that ran out he was dead in the water.

We can all agree to disagree and only one thing will solve it and that is time , and that will probably be early next season when Robbo is either getting success or getting the sack .

There is one thing that is certain in all of this Tsatsimas should not be still employed if you base the last 4 years on his management abilities related to on the football squad. He may be doing other good things for Lederer which is says we need a Soccer Director or cant we afford it ?

I know  Tsatsimas Started 2005 at Newcastle Jets and left in 2010 and then started at the wanderers 2012 as General Manager becoming CEO IN 2014. Does he have any soccer experience prior to 2005 or is he an acadamic.   

 

 

[DCWSW]

Aussie coach Arthur Papas is leaving his J3 club in Japan due to family reasons. 

Has worked under Ange and is definitely someone we should look at.

[Davo]

16 hours ago, mack said:

Alright, looks like I've found the proper last scenario, which is the one I wasn't sure about:

• Perth win vs Wellington
• WU beat Macarthur
• Perth beat Roar
• WSW beat Adelaide
• Mac vs WP is drawn
• Roar lose to SFC
• Goal difference turnaround with Roar and us.

I think this is actually the 2nd likely in terms of needing specific results (we only need 6 results out of 18) with the only upset being the Western United vs Macarthur game (and us managing to win two games).

The other two require 7 or 8 specific results plus the goal difference.

My goal was to see if we could be mathematically eliminated by certain results in that match before our one even if we beat the Roar, but that isn't the case. There also seems to be a way that if Wellington win we can make the 6:

• Nix beat Perth
• We beat Roar
• WU beat Macarthur or it's a draw.
• Perth beat Brisbane
• We beat Adelaide
• Wellington beat Macarthur
• Newcastle vs Perth is a draw or a Newcastle win
• The goal difference turnaround with Roar also happens.

This creates a ladder where we finish 6th on 37 points but ahead on GD against Brisbane and Macarthur.

So after all that, no, we can't be eliminated until we fail to beat Brisbane. Nix vs Perth being a draw is still the only remotely likely scenario to make the 6.

FiveThirtyEight have their A-League forecast model. I believe it's an entirely statistical model and doesn't take into account football knowledge so it's not the most accurate thing for individual games but it's ok for a season.

Here are the chances they give for each of the ladder positions we can still get:

• 5th <1%
• 6th <1%
• 7th 5%
• 8th 23%
• 9th 48%
• 10th 24%

City have already made the finals and they say ESFC, Roar, CCM & Adelaide all have >95% chance of top 6. The remaining contenders are Bulls at 55%, Nix at 40% and Perth at 14%.

[mintoff]

12 hours ago, Keithie said:

1, wanderers  they had no choice

2, why did they run, don't think bridgy went anywhere but it was about money or wanted out ? the rest is about money  ?

3, that sounds like a lot of bad luck or just plain poor recruiting  2 players going back on the word  ,there is more to that story

4, not relevant, 

5, I think that is your opinion reality may be somewhere else. Have you ever employed someone you thought would be great and they let you down , well it happens and it happens a lot both in business and in sport. It does not make a person a bad recruiter or bad manager. 

6, Again your opinion , woeful compared to what , the opinions of a bunch of lounge chair experts, me being one.    

7, Lederer is not in this for the fun of it let me tell you , he is looking for profit, he does not throw money away easily , if he can't start seeing a return on his investment soon he will sell us guaranteed and we certainly wont see it coming.

Muscat in your kidding , He lived off the shirt tails of Ernie Merrick and when that ran out he was dead in the water.

We can all agree to disagree and only one thing will solve it and that is time , and that will probably be early next season when Robbo is either getting success or getting the sack .

There is one thing that is certain in all of this Tsatsimas should not be still employed if you base the last 4 years on his management abilities related to on the football squad. He may be doing other good things for Lederer which is says we need a Soccer Director or cant we afford it ?

I know  Tsatsimas Started 2005 at Newcastle Jets and left in 2010 and then started at the wanderers 2012 as General Manager becoming CEO IN 2014. Does he have any soccer experience prior to 2005 or is he an acadamic.   

 

 

If we want to improve as a football club, Tsatsimas have to be replaced with some one with football knowledge.

 

[Erebus]

Bridge went to Thailand for $

NTS went to middle east for $

Jamo went to Sweden for $

 

FCB is right, we never replaced them. NTS was the biggest loss because we ended up with makeshift backlines with Thwaite, cornthwaite, Borda, Hamill etc

[Upthehill]

20 hours ago, Davo said:

FiveThirtyEight have their A-League forecast model. I believe it's an entirely statistical model and doesn't take into account football knowledge so it's not the most accurate thing for individual games but it's ok for a season.

Here are the chances they give for each of the ladder positions we can still get:

• 5th <1%
• 6th <1%
• 7th 5%
• 8th 23%
• 9th 48%
• 10th 24%

City have already made the finals and they say ESFC, Roar, CCM & Adelaide all have >95% chance of top 6. The remaining contenders are Bulls at 55%, Nix at 40% and Perth at 14%.

My take away from this is that there is stilla  fairly good chance we could drop another spot.

[Zelinsky]

19 minutes ago, Erebus said:

Bridge went to Thailand for $

NTS went to middle east for $

Jamo went to Sweden for $

 

FCB is right, we never replaced them. NTS was the biggest loss because we ended up with makeshift backlines with Thwaite, cornthwaite, Borda, Hamill etc

The loss of NTS was massive, and is ongoing. Since then, the only leader in the CB position was Cornflakes in the second half of S5, once he had come up to speed.

I recall the successful campaign. The corners kept coming in, and Ante NTS and Hamill had it all covered. Now we are leaking goals like a pub team.

[wendybr]

When NTS returned to Oz, did we try to get him back?