Same Old Wanderers Fall To Macarthur Debut Defeat

[MartinTyler]

6 hours ago, mack said:

 

In 2015/16 we got 1 point from our first 3 games and lost the Premiership at the end of the league by 1 point, to Adelaide, because neither us or the Roar accumulated enough points at the start of the season to make up for bad form at the end. You can never lose the points you've won, but you can always fail to win more points which is why points matter across the entire season.

 

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that Adelaide's start was just as bad !!

[sonar]

11 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that Adelaide's start was just as bad !!

Yep. After 4 rounds we were ahead of Adl on the table.

If memory serves me correct it was our loss to the Mariners 3-5 near the end of the regular season that really cost us first place

https://www.ultimatealeague.com/standings.php?season=2015-16&round=4

[MartinTyler]

1 minute ago, sonar said:

Yep. After 4 rounds we were ahead of Adl on the table.

If memory serves me correct it was our loss to the Mariners 3-5 near the end of the regular season that really cost us first place

https://www.ultimatealeague.com/standings.php?season=2015-16&round=4

Wasn't there also a Mark Bridge open goal miss in a critical game late in the season?

[MartinTyler]

4 minutes ago, sonar said:

Yep. After 4 rounds we were ahead of Adl on the table.

If memory serves me correct it was our loss to the Mariners 3-5 near the end of the regular season that really cost us first place

https://www.ultimatealeague.com/standings.php?season=2015-16&round=4

Check out the standings after round 10 !!

[sonar]

7 minutes ago, sonar said:

Yep. After 4 rounds we were ahead of Adl on the table.

If memory serves me correct it was our loss to the Mariners 3-5 near the end of the regular season that really cost us first place

https://www.ultimatealeague.com/standings.php?season=2015-16&round=4

Error on my part re Mariners......The seasons just all seem a blur at times.....lol

[papersun]

I have a strong feeling that there will be more players shipped out before the season's finished.

[Davo]

But talking about the Bridge miss in the second last round or other late points being dropped is exactly the point Mack is making. The points dropped there are exactly the same value as the points dropped at the beginning of the season, but by the end of the season everyone forgets the slow start.

I’d like the club to be ready to start the season when the season starts. If players like Dorrans and Ibini are starting then that means the manager thinks that playing them underdone is still a better option than the fully fit youth players who played the whole preseason. That means we weren’t ready.

The bulls didn’t have their Spaniards ready to start but they made sure their backups were ready and fit so they could start, hold their own against our starters, then dominate us when the Spaniards came on. They didn’t just lose and say “oh well, we’ll be ready some time in February”.

[StringerBellend]

it’s going to be eetswa

while the points are the same at the end of the regular League
 

The A League is won in a knock out finals series, the last 2-3 games carry more “points”

so club waiting for right players is more Sensible than rushing out and signing any old crap early (borda. Jumpei, Pinatares) style 

I’m not sure what else we could have done, the off-season was in a global Pandemic, it took us a bit to get King Carlo, then Triosi, Ibini needed contract release...

 

Edited January 1 by StringerBellend

[Davo]

In seven of the the eight seasons we’ve played as a club the Grand Final was between the teams that finished first and second. The one other time is was between second and fourth.

I’m all for hitting form in time for finals but finishing anywhere lower than fourth is a huge ask and anything below second is unlikely. 

I genuinely hope I’m wrong but binning off the first month of the season doesn’t sound like a top two strategy.

[JustWandering]

I think too much was made of the Federici saves. They were all within his reach, if he used his other hand in the Baccus save it would have looked routine. Federici was clearly confused by the fuss in the post match interview. Having said that, it was pleasing to see so many meaningful shots on goal from us, and intelligent movement off the ball to allow the attacking raids to happen. So much better than last year. No errors at all from the back three was a refreshing change too.

The constant turnovers from Dorrans was a concern, but he surely deserves more time to acclimatise. In the fox broadcast it was mentioned that Milligan was offered to the Wanderers first. This must have been while JPD'M was still manager. I wonder whether Milligan would be in our team had Robbo been in charge at that time. Milligan would be a shoe in as our captain too. If Dorrans can reach the level of Milligan I'd be more than happy.

Anyway, far too early for the doom and gloom. In contrast to recent years passed, our manager has the capability to correct our teams deficiencies which he has clearly started to do already. Also far too early to be labelling Macarthur as title contenders.  They've played one team for gods sake.

 

[WHACKO]

56 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

The A League is won in a knock out finals series, the last 2-3 games carry more “points”

And that knock out series is usually won by the team that finished first or second in the regular season.

Davo mentioned same above, just read that.

Edited January 1 by WHACKO

[wendybr]

1 hour ago, Davo said:

In seven of the the eight seasons we’ve played as a club the Grand Final was between the teams that finished first and second. The one other time is was between second and fourth.

I’m all for hitting form in time for finals but finishing anywhere lower than fourth is a huge ask and anything below second is unlikely. 

I genuinely hope I’m wrong but binning off the first month of the season doesn’t sound like a top two strategy.

Not sure if "binning off the first month" is what anyone here is suggesting would be acceptable.

But for those asserting that our team is " the same old Wanderers" and gnashing their teeth at the end of the very first game, well, to me, their reaction is premature. 

[GunnerWanderer]

Very well articulated Wendy. If it was same old WSW we would have conceded more!

A few weeks ago I was very pessimistic about the season outlook. The recent signings and listening to CR talk leave me more optimistic. 

If Dorrans settles (I'm assuming he's a better play that we saw) and given what Troisi and Ibini can do in this league I think top 6 is achievable.

I was very pleased to see no Zeigler (no offence but his time is done) in the team the other night, and see Tass in the team.

The big concern will be if Cox can deliver. Given what I've seen I don't think he can but happy to be proven wrong. If he can get 15 plus goals then it will lessen burden on others. 

[wendybr]

I think it was just deep, spur-of-the-moment frustration at play the other night.

A couple of the pessimists already seem a bit more moderate in their views now.

Every team would have been desperate to make a statement in their first game, and to 0make their mark. The Bulls would have had even more  desperation and incentive to put on a good show.

We didn't play at all like clodhoppers , and we mostly knew there were reasons (beyond excuses) to see the team as likely to need more time to gel.

So there is reason to be optimistic that improvements will be coming.

[sonar]

10 minutes ago, wendybr said:

We didn't play at all like clodhoppers , 

I'm not so sure about that......there was a bit of clodhopping in there.........not as much as in the past perhaps.....

Tactically I thought Robinson got it wrong at the start.  Muller needed to be on from the get go and Cox should of come off the bench with either Ibini or Troisi starting as striker.

Cox got out muscled and Ibini and Troisi have/had more size and strength about them. Dorrans should not have played at all. O'Doherty should have started instead. Yeboah just does my head in.

I said at the end of the game it wasn't good enough and on reflection I still feel the same way. It wasn't good enough.

These are criticisms of our team not me being a pessimist. There is a difference.

[Davo]

2 hours ago, wendybr said:

Not sure if "binning off the first month" is what anyone here is suggesting would be acceptable.

Nor should they, but I’m not suggesting that anyone here is proposing that. I’m saying that it looks like that’s what the club is doing.

[ZachMercer]

3 hours ago, JustWandering said:

Also far too early to be labelling Macarthur as title contenders.  They've played one team for gods sake.

I agree. As sad as it is to say it, let's reserve our judgement till they've had to play some of the genuine title contenders that will not squander their opportunities to put the ball in the back of the net.

[HillsPanther]

8 minutes ago, ZachMercer said:

I agree. As sad as it is to say it, let's reserve our judgement till they've had to play some of the genuine title contenders that will not squander their opportunities to put the ball in the back of the net.

So far that would be M Heart or the Mariners.

[sonar]

.......We've only had 45 min together before this game"......Margush on our game against Macarthur.

Whatever the reasons it was a mistake by Robinson I feel to not play the senior players more in trial games.

Ibini,Troisi,Gordon Kamau and Dorrans arrived late but the lack of combination at times was apparent. We will improve but you don't want to give teams in the comp a free leg up when they play us because we not prepared. 

 

[pseudonym]

2 hours ago, wendybr said:

We didn't play at all like clodhoppers , and we mostly knew there were reasons (beyond excuses) to see the team as likely to need more time to gel.

So there is reason to be optimistic that improvements will be coming.

IMO - I think it's a bit early to castigate individual players

My frustration comes from a sense that the club are treating the start of the season as if we are already midway having sacked a manager - just wanting to see a lift from the current squad rather than a cohesive strategy

The WSW board plus JT should have managed expectations better i.e. "we're going through a re-build"

At face value, there doesn't seem to be any long term planning going on. Just a lot of panic buying like people picking 20 rolls of toilet paper in Covid.

"Oh, JP has left. Quick! Let's pinch Carl Robinson"

"Hey, Troisi's contract is void. Let's lure him from Adelaide"

We really need a Director of Football - so when we sign someone, it fits into a broader picture

[wendybr]

21 minutes ago, sonar said:

.......We've only had 45 min together before this game"......Margush on our game against Macarthur.

Whatever the reasons it was a mistake by Robinson I feel to not play the senior players more in trial games.

Ibini,Troisi,Gordon Kamau and Dorrans arrived late but the lack of combination at times was apparent. We will improve but you don't want to give teams in the comp a free leg up when they play us because we not prepared. 

 

He seems a smart and articulate young guy, apart from his footballing skills. Good luck to him!

[BoyFromTheWest]

54 minutes ago, pseudonym said:

IMO - I think it's a bit early to castigate individual players

My frustration comes from a sense that the club are treating the start of the season as if we are already midway having sacked a manager - just wanting to see a lift from the current squad rather than a cohesive strategy

The WSW board plus JT should have managed expectations better i.e. "we're going through a re-build"

At face value, there doesn't seem to be any long term planning going on. Just a lot of panic buying like people picking 20 rolls of toilet paper in Covid.

"Oh, JP has left. Quick! Let's pinch Carl Robinson"

"Hey, Troisi's contract is void. Let's lure him from Adelaide"

We really need a Director of Football - so when we sign someone, it fits into a broader picture

I quite disagree. Look back over the various posts off-season, especially re: JP and various players. There were a range of responses largely concluding that with COVID and salary cap uncertainty there would be huge challenges.

There was cynicism re: club review, which everyone believed was necessary. It came through, they sacked JP brought in Robbo and a rebuild began. It has been stated several times and clearly what Robbo has articulated. He has had to deal with players already contracted, work out what the real gaps are, look for possible recruitment and begin to develop a new and lasting culture, style and direction.

Robbo has been very clear and this has been implied in other communication as well.  We have all been critical and fed up with massive changes in players etc for years - even back in Popa time. Robbo has been clear that he is expected to build a foundation that will bring success. He said that it will not happen instantaneously - he's only had 2.5 months.

If we still had JP and the same old, we'd complain more - because it would have been a real defeat by s club that has had 14 months to build with a coach who has access to former Socceroos.

We list one game (so far) by an unlucky deflection. We showed positivity than most of last season and we see the massive improvement potential. Sure, if that doesn't come soon and we keep losing, then judgement is due and warranted, but just yet? Do think so.

[Wanderboy]

3 hours ago, pseudonym said:

 

 

"Oh, JP has left. Quick! Let's pinch Carl Robinson"

"Hey, Troisi's contract is void. Let's lure him from Adelaide"

Firstly, there is no way we let JP go unless we knew CR was coming on board, so the club didn't do that. They lined up CR first, and then told JP he was excess to requirements. Give the club some credit. Despite what many might believe, they are NOT complete amateur's.

2ndly, CR came on board and then had what, 4 - 6 weeks to strengthen our squad? The fact he was able to bring in Dorrens, Ibini, Troisi, Margush and Ziggy in such a short time speaks volumes about his commitment and influence. He's not mucking around. He has already turfed some of the youth that he saw had no future with the club. He has also stated on numerous occasions that there is room to further strengthen the squad when the time is right and the appropriate players become available, and that he has the ability to do so.

I fully understand the disappointment of losing the other night. I wasn't happy walking away from the stadium either, after another loss.  But some of the comments at the beginning of this thread are just embarrassing. People need to get a grip. (Cox has to go, Troisi is useless, Dorrens a waste of money, Ibini etc....) Fair dinkum!

I watched the game again yesterday and honestly thought we played better football than we have in the past 4 seasons.

Some positives - 

* Baccus and Russell, despite a few errors, worked their arses off and were immense.

* Troisi worked hard and had more influence than what some others led us to believe.

* The much maligned (in the past) McGowan was far better in defence than what we have seen of late. Is it any coincidence that Zeigler wasn't there calling the shots? I don't know.

* Ziggy is the rock we have been looking for at the back.

* Mueller will play a big part in this campaign.

* Generally, we went into challenges with more aggression.

 

We were desperately unlucky not to score on several occasions. Federici was indeed excellent, yet, I agree, we have to be a bit more clinical in our finishing. We lost to an arsey goal (literally). For people to be slitting their throats and offering some of the criticism that was put forward after the game just shows they can't see the bigger picture yet, although I somewhat understand that  considering our past 4 seasons of shite.

Have some faith. I do.

 

 

Edited January 1 by Wanderboy

[BoyFromTheWest]

Well said, Wanderboy! Well said.

[Erebus]

Agree Wanderboy. We said very similar things in our Around the Bloc post match vid/ATBit which was recorded right after full-time.

Edited January 1 by Erebus

[wendybr]

Ooops!

 

[wendybr]

3 hours ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

I quite disagree. Look back over the various posts off-season, especially re: JP and various players. There were a range of responses largely concluding that with COVID and salary cap uncertainty there would be huge challenges.

There was cynicism re: club review, which everyone believed was necessary. It came through, they sacked JP brought in Robbo and a rebuild began. It has been stated several times and clearly what Robbo has articulated. He has had to deal with players already contracted, work out what the real gaps are, look for possible recruitment and begin to develop a new and lasting culture, style and direction.

Robbo has been very clear and this has been implied in other communication as well.  We have all been critical and fed up with massive changes in players etc for years - even back in Popa time. Robbo has been clear that he is expected to build a foundation that will bring success. He said that it will not happen instantaneously - he's only had 2.5 months.

If we still had JP and the same old, we'd complain more - because it would have been a real defeat by s club that has had 14 months to build with a coach who has access to former Socceroos.

We list one game (so far) by an unlucky deflection. We showed positivity than most of last season and we see the massive improvement potential. Sure, if that doesn't come soon and we keep losing, then judgement is due and warranted, but just yet? Do think so.

[wendybr]

48 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

Well said, Wanderboy! Well said.

This!

 

[EmMac]

Agree Wanderboy. 

[FCB]

1 hour ago, Wanderboy said:

Firstly, there is no way we let JP go unless we knew CR was coming on board, so the club didn't do that. They lined up CR first, and then told JP he was excess to requirements. Give the club some credit. Despite what many might believe, they are NOT complete amateur's.

2ndly, CR came on board and then had what, 4 - 6 weeks to strengthen our squad? The fact he was able to bring in Dorrens, Ibini, Troisi, Margush and Ziggy in such a short time speaks volumes about his commitment and influence. He's not mucking around. He has already turfed some of the youth that he saw had no future with the club. He has also stated on numerous occasions that there is room to further strengthen the squad when the time is right and the appropriate players become available, and that he has the ability to do so.

 

Disclaimer: I had a couple of NYD scotches, with one or two in between....

Firstly: JT was painfully aware WSW had a problem - JP was ignoring the youth works. As far as the board is concerned, that's the death sentence for a manager/coach at WSW. CR mentioned multiple times that only McKinna and himself knew the financial situation at Jets. But JT, as an ex Jets employee, got whiff of what was going on, and the wheels started to turn. Once the club was certain that they could woe CR, JP's days were numbered. I know that for a fact.

Secondly: I have no doubt that CR/Miller sat down Adams, Pagden, Monge and explained to them the football-pro-101. And back to school it is. Disclaimer: I don't know that for a fact.

Thirdly: CR is not mucking around indeed. He's a pro, and he has pulling power. That Troisi came had very little to do with WSW, but all with CR. WSW is turning into a professional football club - finally!

WSW supporters have been burned. In S6 they had to decipher what Gombau what thinking, in S7 and S8 what Babbel was saying. In S9 it is a very different story, but very simple. All they need to do is an listen to what CR actually says - in plain English. He talks about immediate goals, a three year plan, a five year plan. Hold on to that, fellas.