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Adelaide Anguish


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11 hours ago, wendybr said:

Your positivity is refreshing Btron, and is needed here...I agree.

We do tend to be too critical in general.

You haven't been unreasonably optimistic, and I shouldn't have suggested that you were the leader of any  "camp".

Sorry. 

:) :)

Haha I hope you know me well enough to know I wasn’t bothered by the camp comment (also that sorry isn’t necessary), it was funny. I wasn’t trying to be on one side with someone else on the other, if anything the opposing “camp” was everyone banging on about how poor we were.

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13 hours ago, hughsey said:

I replied to your comment in the match thread yesterday with this but have updated it to factor in our game yesterday. We are currently:

- 1 point above Perth who have 3 games in hand

- 2 points above the Smurf’s who have 2 games in hand

- 4 points above City who have 2 games in hand 

- 2 points above WU who have 2 games in hand

If Sydney win this afternoon then we will drop down to 5th already. It’s not looking pretty. If everyone was currently on the same number of games I reckon we’d be sitting about 7/8th.

Well Sydney didn't win so there goes that. 

But the reason I asked wasn't to point out that these teams mightn't win those games (but points on the board are always worth more than games in hand because games in hand can be lost), but that two of those teams had terrible starts. City won 2 of the first 6 and WU 1 of the first 5. The point is that not many teams go through a season playing well the whole way, and points can be picked up quickly in such a close competition.

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13 hours ago, hughsey said:

I admire your optimism and positivity but I don’t think I or anyone else are being negative on the contrary. The team is not playing or being managed well and it needs to be called out. No point burying heads in the sand about it and pretending it’s not a real problem.

There are people on here saying we're worse than last year. And you said that Adelaide were more than a goal better than us. Both of those things are blatantly not true.

Who's burying their heads in the sand? There are plenty of reasonable comments on here about why things aren't working, but not too much discussion about them. People are too busy saying the players don't care. We dominated possession, crosses, corners, balls into the box, and shots on goal. Man when they start trying the other team won't ever be able to get the ball!

 

13 hours ago, hughsey said:

I'm tired of this BS (in all sport tbh) about rebuilding, “taking time”, “work to do”, “Need to be better” etc. Every game of sport you play, you play to win - it’s pretty simple. What does that say to your fans who spend their hard earned to turn up each week? In what other profession can you just put in half arsed effort and excuse it in such a way? I don’t expect to win every game but I at least expect we go out with the mentality that we will.

The standards and drive for excellence that this club once had is currently in the gutter. 

You're complaining about the club's cuture but then you want it fixed in a day. If - big IF - the drive for excellence is in the gutter, then you better get used to the waiting game because it'll take Robinson a couple of seasons to fix it. Fixing a culture means identifying the guys that don't fit, and waiting till their contracts run out (or give them the Popa Treatment).

People underperform in all professions. Difference is, they either get away with it or they get performance managed by their boss (or, like, bullied out). What they don't have is a contract that ensures they will stay for a certain amount of time, regardless of how **** they are.

Anyway, I think Robinson wants excellence and I think he'll get it. I have no idea how long it will take because I can't see the players every day at training.

Also, yeah, every game you play to win but the coach also has to manage a season. We've got players coming back from injuries, players just arrived, etc. Imagine he played Duke for a full game and he strained a muscle, everyone would be all "he jut got out of quarantine!". Duke has barely been on the field at the same time as our best crossers.

Robinson is obviously playing the long game with this team. I think he knows the individual talents of most of his squad (maybe not so much Duke) and he is still working out how they fit together best. The season could go either way - they could keep making defensive mistakes and keep missing their chances and nosedive, or he could start to see how the attackers fit better and we could start taking chances and go up the ladder, or we could stagnate right where we are. I have no idea which will happen, but banging on that we are not a top 6 side is so premature. 

 

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7 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

 Fixing a culture means identifying the guys that don't fit, and waiting till their contracts run out (or give them the Popa Treatment).

 

Yep. It will be interesting to see who we keep or let go. Quite a few have contracts that will finish.

...including.......Kamau, Georgievski, O'Doherty, Mutch, Duke, Grozos, Yeboah, Natta, Russell, Muller, Zeigler, Cox.

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27 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

There are people on here saying we're worse than last year. And you said that Adelaide were more than a goal better than us. Both of those things are blatantly not true.

Who's burying their heads in the sand? There are plenty of reasonable comments on here about why things aren't working, but not too much discussion about them. People are too busy saying the players don't care. We dominated possession, crosses, corners, balls into the box, and shots on goal. Man when they start trying the other team won't ever be able to get the ball!

 

You're complaining about the club's cuture but then you want it fixed in a day. If - big IF - the drive for excellence is in the gutter, then you better get used to the waiting game because it'll take Robinson a couple of seasons to fix it. Fixing a culture means identifying the guys that don't fit, and waiting till their contracts run out (or give them the Popa Treatment).

People underperform in all professions. Difference is, they either get away with it or they get performance managed by their boss (or, like, bullied out). What they don't have is a contract that ensures they will stay for a certain amount of time, regardless of how **** they are.

Anyway, I think Robinson wants excellence and I think he'll get it. I have no idea how long it will take because I can't see the players every day at training.

Also, yeah, every game you play to win but the coach also has to manage a season. We've got players coming back from injuries, players just arrived, etc. Imagine he played Duke for a full game and he strained a muscle, everyone would be all "he jut got out of quarantine!". Duke has barely been on the field at the same time as our best crossers.

Robinson is obviously playing the long game with this team. I think he knows the individual talents of most of his squad (maybe not so much Duke) and he is still working out how they fit together best. The season could go either way - they could keep making defensive mistakes and keep missing their chances and nosedive, or he could start to see how the attackers fit better and we could start taking chances and go up the ladder, or we could stagnate right where we are. I have no idea which will happen, but banging on that we are not a top 6 side is so premature. 

 

We’ve been hearing for the last 4-5 seasons about how the culture of the team is changing back to the glory days. We heard it with Gombau, we heard it with Babel, we heard it JP and we’re hearing it yet again with Robinson. At what point does it actually happen?

I’d be far more patient if the club actually stuck with a manager and gave him the several seasons you speak about needing to turn it around. Instead we’re onto our 4th manager since 2017 and there’s no evidence that the club will give Robinson any longer that they did the others before they pull the trigger. That clearly says to me that the club expect immediate change and so therefore I’m going with that mentality also.  

Personnel and certain tactical specifics look a bit different but our overall prospects of challenging for a title, to me looks no different to what it did with Babel. You can look at all the stats you want on a piece of paper but if they don’t convert into table points then they mean bugger all to the big picture.

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11 minutes ago, hughsey said:

We’ve been hearing for the last 4-5 seasons about how the culture of the team is changing back to the glory days. We heard it with Gombau, we heard it with Babel, we heard it JP and we’re hearing it yet again with Robinson. At what point does it actually happen?

I’d be far more patient if the club actually stuck with a manager and gave him the several seasons you speak about needing to turn it around. Instead we’re onto our 4th manager since 2017 and there’s no evidence that the club will give Robinson any longer that they did the others before they pull the trigger. That clearly says to me that the club expect immediate change and so therefore I’m going with that mentality also.  

Personnel and certain tactical specifics look a bit different but our overall prospects of challenging for a title, to me looks no different to what it did with Babel. You can look at all the stats you want on a piece of paper but if they don’t convert into table points then they mean bugger all to the big picture.

So the firing of managers hasn't worked but you want to stick with the quick fix attempts...?

I agree that the stats don't matter if we don't win. Therein lies the biggest problem, and it's one we've had every season - lack of a proper finisher. Duke is decent, but he's no Berisha or Fornaroli. If Duke takes his one-on-one the other day, it's 2-2 and Adelaide were totally clinging on, the crowd was into it, and we were all over them. 

I just think the idea that players don't try is so simple to say, but it's very rarely the case. It's mainly lack of ability, uncertainty, or in some cases just the momentum of the game and crowd.

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We've been dropping points that we should've been accumulating for weeks. It will cost us. As others have mentioned, we haven't left the state yet and things will only get harder with inevitable travel and the crunch with multiple games in close succession. We're creating plenty of chances, but we've done that in previous seasons with no real end product.

I'm curious what is the thoughts around the formation? My big issue with the 3-5-2/5-3-2 is it's generally defensively solid, I'm just not sure it suits our squad. We've got a bunch of midfielders/wingers and not enough spots to place them or playing some of them out of position. I'd like to see another formation or two as an option at least. And I'm aware that a formation can often be viewed as just a starting position and players are fluid in their movement on the pitch. Would we be that bad if we went back to a back 4? It potentially creates another attacking player (obviously with the current formation the wingbacks are creating a lot of our chances). Maybe if they play like Popa used to with one fullback staying back whilst the other attacks?

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10 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

So the firing of managers hasn't worked but you want to stick with the quick fix attempts...?

I agree that the stats don't matter if we don't win. Therein lies the biggest problem, and it's one we've had every season - lack of a proper finisher. Duke is decent, but he's no Berisha or Fornaroli. If Duke takes his one-on-one the other day, it's 2-2 and Adelaide were totally clinging on, the crowd was into it, and we were all over them. 

I just think the idea that players don't try is so simple to say, but it's very rarely the case. It's mainly lack of ability, uncertainty, or in some cases just the momentum of the game and crowd.

What I’m saying is that the club either chooses a short or long term option when it comes to ‘the fix’. 

If they’re going to hire and fire then there’s clearly the mentality and expectation that things are fixed quickly which therefore means that as fans we shouldn’t have to be waiting around for multiple seasons to see a meaningful improvement.

If they are going to make us sit through multiple seasons of varying degrees of quality in our performances, then they should make it clear that the manager is safe and has at least 3 full seasons to try make good because it’s a long term project.

I love this club and will always follow through the good and the bad, therefore I am going to back the mentality they run with when it comes to management. However right now is a really murky grey area that seems be a combination of the bad parts of both short and long term strategy that’s achieving nothing. 

As an aside, it still think the concept of ‘rebuilding’ in professional sport is one of the greatest consumer con jobs of our generation. It’s up there with bottled water...

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30 minutes ago, Carns said:

We've been dropping points that we should've been accumulating for weeks. It will cost us. As others have mentioned, we haven't left the state yet and things will only get harder with inevitable travel and the crunch with multiple games in close succession. We're creating plenty of chances, but we've done that in previous seasons with no real end product.

I'm curious what is the thoughts around the formation? My big issue with the 3-5-2/5-3-2 is it's generally defensively solid, I'm just not sure it suits our squad. We've got a bunch of midfielders/wingers and not enough spots to place them or playing some of them out of position. I'd like to see another formation or two as an option at least. And I'm aware that a formation can often be viewed as just a starting position and players are fluid in their movement on the pitch. Would we be that bad if we went back to a back 4? It potentially creates another attacking player (obviously with the current formation the wingbacks are creating a lot of our chances). Maybe if they play like Popa used to with one fullback staying back whilst the other attacks?

I’ve been thinking about the formation too. I haven’t thought so much about how it suits our wide players etc. but your other point about an extra attacker. I’d say the main strength of our squad is a plethora of attackers but the weakness is that none are true out and out goalpoachers. I think the more attacking mids and attackers we can get on there the better.

Also, re the wingbacks, they can get forward to add extra attackers but it does mean that crosses are the main attacking weapon, so far with little end product. Hopefully a fully fit Duke solves that.

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12 hours ago, Davo said:

The thing that annoyed me the most with this was Yeboah. If you’re in Dorrans position and nobody is giving you a short option you either need to turn and play back to the keeper, or go long and play a ball over the top of the defence for our forwards to run on to.

The whole time Dorrans had his foot on the ball Yeboah was standing still, two metres offside.

I've got no time for attacking players who have a bludge in an offside position. 

Also our Gk isn't going to win us any silverware. 

We lack cohesion & don't value possession.

 

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20 minutes ago, hughsey said:

As an aside, it still think the concept of ‘rebuilding’ in professional sport is one of the greatest consumer con jobs of our generation. It’s up there with bottled water...

It depends entirely on the sport and the structure and rules of the league. The NFL, for example, has a salary cap that can be manipulated to help you try and win in the short term, but you know that it’s gonna come and hurt you in a few years. In addition, the game is very much about tactics, or “scheme”. Some coaches run schemes that don’t fit certain players and so when the coach comes in they know they have to overhaul the roster. It’s not uncommon for people to speculate that a certain “rebuild” may take 2/3 years. And it happens.

The NRL is similar because of how the cap works. A few years ago Penrith decided to offload senior players who they felt weren’t playing as well as their salary. It meant an over reliance on kids and a couple years without success but last year they made the Grand Final.

Football, I don’t think rebuilds are much of a thing except for two reasons. One, a coach wants to radically change the style. Eg when Wenger took over Arsenal. But most teams in football know where they sit in the pecking order and so even a coach who wants to change the style will have a certain level of players he can attract to do that. So it should take a season at most. 

Second, cultural issues. Ferguson had to rid Man U of a drinking culture and it took him a few years. Actually he also revamped the scouting system so that was really a root and branch overhaul of the whole club.

The A-league is too close to require radical overhauls. But if you want to change style or there is a cultural issue then it may be necessary. Gombau apparently (according to him anyway) sold the club on the idea of a total overhaul including academy, but it was all smoke and mirrors. I doubt we need a radical overhaul at the moment. There’s enough talent there to get them winning. And they’re not playing some revolutionary style. It’s more about finding the best way for them to play together.

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8 hours ago, Taurus said:

Also our Gk isn't going to win us any silverware. 

 

Think we are starting to see Margush's limitations the more games we play. Doesn't seem to dominate/control his  Box..last few games he has seemed hesitant when dealing with high balls coming in from the wings or set pieces.   Seems better dealing with low shots where he has to dive to make the save.  Don't shoot me for saying this but  perhaps in some ways reminiscent of Redmayne. Overall though a better keeper ..

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9 hours ago, Taurus said:

I've got no time for attacking players who have a bludge in an offside position. 

Also our Gk isn't going to win us any silverware. 

We lack cohesion & don't value possession.

 

We don't seem to value possession when it counts if that makes sense (too many sloppy passes in attacking areas). We still, although getting better, almost over value possession at times at the back, seemingly endless sideways backwards passing with no purpose or attempt to work the ball forward. This often ends in us losing the ball in a worse position then we started, or a "hopeful" ball forward to lose it.

That said I feel like that it is getting better. Parklea Messi gets a lot of stick for losing the ball, but generally when he does he is attempting a forward pass with some purpose to it (far harder than the pass back to the Centre Back). Dorrans makes a difference too.

Last game I watched from a different spot (bay 226) so up high rather than my usual closer to the pitch spot. One thing from high I could see (or maybe dreamt) was Yeboah actually does make some decent runs. 

We seem to have a lot of squad depth now in midfield, but we are very reliant on kids for the wing back spots (and centre back too). That's good to see the youth getting a chance and they are all promising players, and the only way they will get the experience is to play. The experienced defenders Gordan aside aren't really performing at moment

 

 

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Its a lot to pack from that last game. Set piece defending is crap and within the first minute as well which does come to Margush and the defenders protecting him. Margush doesn't command the 18 yard box but I think its been mentioned before its something he needs to work on his only young. So first goal probably his fault but our defence should have cleared their lines as well. Goodwin was absolute thorn against us, and I think he made a massive change to Adelaide every time he had the ball we just didn't look comfortable against him.

Then in attack. Look we didn't play too bad actually I think we did really well breaking the lines BUT the very frustrating thing is we should of had 2 or 3 goals before Adelaide had their second. Key moments in which Russel should of cut it back to Muller in 1 or 2 instances, The first 4 corners that McGowan should have buried and a few more chances from Muller that he doesn't bury we go into half time 2-0 down after some poor defending off a throw in.

Then second half we had the best of it for majority of it and had Duke buried that one on one game changes at 2-2. I think Robbo for this game was a bit too slow for the first 3 changes as we could have been 3-0 down before he made those changes (again Goodwin). I also think he should of taken Baccus off for Mutch instead of putting in Troisi. As many have stated Baccus did not have the greatest of games and should have been subbed for Mutch to anchor the midfield while we chased and leaving Kamau up front. 

For me it was frustrating because we did create a lot in attack but we weren't clinical enough and it cost us against Adelaide. It is now 5 points we have dropped in 2 games and given the games in hand from those below us we can easily fall out of the 6.

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23 hours ago, Keithie said:

Sorry about the post above

 

Those are pretty impressive stats Mack could I suggest that maybe (dunno if Veart is smart enough) that Wellington Adelaide etc: have worked out that if they let us attack on the flanks and they defend narrow we don't have the firepower down the middle to worry them especially considering Cox and Muller are not the tallest players in the League and along with that we cant defend set pieces,, Just Saying     

I think Muller struggles in the attacking midfielder role. I wonder whether Cox could be more effective there, with Muller and Duke playing upfront?

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18 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

We are top 6 at moment 

This is not Babbel or Gumby era 

It wasn't until the end of round 25 in the Foxe/Gombau season that we dropped out of the top 6. We were out of the top 6 by Round 5 with Babbel's first season and stayed cemented to 8th for the rest of the year. Second MB season we were out of the 6 by round 9. 

If results don't go our way we could be in 7th after Sunday's game vs Western United which would be after our 11th game. It would be a little better than the Babbel years.

Our position is precarious. Perth are below us on the ladder but they have a game against the Nix in between two games vs the Mariners. They could end up a handful of points above the Mariners by the middle of the month and still have games in hand. The ladder position is a bit of a mirage at the moment.

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Well a lot of info to absorb here, I'm not at the stage of Gin & the Smiths yet, i'm still optimistic that this will be a good season, way better than previous 5 years, good squad than can and will improve.                      After watching Mutch's cameo the other night, am really looking forward to him starting, he is going to be our No 10 in my opinion, sprays the ball well and can advance and let a shot fly.

two wins and the pressure lifts off the shoulders massively, it's just round the corner i believe, looking forward to tomorrow night.

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I suspect the issue for many of us (at least for me) is the disappointment that we really didn't play that well the other night.  Yep, we scored 2 and that would be enough in most games for at least a point.  We dominated for moments and even looked good but it came and went.

I think that I went expecting a more dominant performance from our boys but we really were on the back foot from the word go.  They pressed us like there was no tomorrow and then had 2 lines of 4/5 behind the ball everytime we went forward - usually too slowly.  Nix did similarly and they both came through the middle - down the wing then through the middle and our midfield didn't seem to cope with the numbers.  Our defence sat deeper and always looked somewhat vulnerable.  Theirs didn't - it looked solid.

Both Adelaide and Nix, at this stage are not great teams - lower-mid-table at best.  They play well and above themselves.  Adelaide didn't even have 'the best striker in the A League' on the field.  Most of my angst isn't about the season or whether or not we've improved; it was sheer disappointment.  It wasn't that they didn't try, didn't look interested, because I think they did try.  They just looked a bit clueless and lost and there was a feeling of inevitability about the game.  We've been worked out by lower teams who are happy to press hard, park the bus in defence and try a quick counter or push us hard and outnumber us in midfield.

I just needed a win the other night.  It was a hard week and I just needed a night of blissful distraction and it didn't come and I was very disappointed, as I think most are.  We will move on but we need something to hang onto - not just stats (which Bozza says are like bikinis...).

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Tate played 90 against the Nix and 60 against Adelaide, he probably needs a game off. DG on the right being told not to cut inside, leave Wilmering or Aquilina on the left.

Kamau deserves a start after his last two performances, and not to move him back.

Call it a rest, call it being dropped but Baccus has played 90 minutes in every game. Swap him out for Mutch.

Duke scored. Start.

Troisi has been a flop. Stay on the bench.

I'd give Noah James a game unless he's been mediocre at training. Margush started well but form dipped and he's been a failure helping to deal with these set piece issues.

Muller in that AMC type attacking position.

Personally I'd drop this 5-3-2 and play a 4-2-3-1 but I can't see Robinson dropping that formation any time soon

image.png.a69bb83fc8086321157b601f31fb307b.png

Bench would be Margush, Aquilna, Russell, Baccus, Troisi, Cox. 7th spot for Ibini, O'Doherty or Yeboah.

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11 minutes ago, mack said:

Tate played 90 against the Nix and 60 against Adelaide, he probably needs a game off. DG on the right being told not to cut inside, leave Wilmering or Aquilina on the left.

Kamau deserves a start after his last two performances, and not to move him back.

Call it a rest, call it being dropped but Baccus has played 90 minutes in every game. Swap him out for Mutch.

Duke scored. Start.

Troisi has been a flop. Stay on the bench.

I'd give Noah James a game unless he's been mediocre at training. Margush started well but form dipped and he's been a failure helping to deal with these set piece issues.

Muller in that AMC type attacking position.

Personally I'd drop this 5-3-2 and play a 4-2-3-1 but I can't see Robinson dropping that formation any time soon

image.png.a69bb83fc8086321157b601f31fb307b.png

Bench would be Margush, Aquilna, Russell, Baccus, Troisi, Cox. 7th spot for Ibini, O'Doherty or Yeboah.

Good looking side but I don't know why you'd play Georgievski on the right? Has he ever played there for us on that side? Maybe occasionally, but not his preferred side? 

Ibini, Yeboah and O'Doherty as our left right outs just goes to show how much depth we have. It's time this team started to perform and win matches. Simple. 5 points lost in the past two games is truly unacceptable.

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8 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Good looking side but I don't know why you'd play Georgievski on the right?

Yes with Wilmering on the left under Babbel 

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looks ok except Georgievski , Russell in my view is one of the first picked , James I would not argue with but I am struggling with pairing of Natta and McGowan but until Tass is fit we have an issue in decent centre backs.  

Who would cover for injury sub for Natta and McGowan , you would think Ziegler would be on the bench.

 

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54 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Good looking side but I don't know why you'd play Georgievski on the right? Has he ever played there for us on that side? Maybe occasionally, but not his preferred side? 

Ibini, Yeboah and O'Doherty as our left right outs just goes to show how much depth we have. It's time this team started to perform and win matches. Simple. 5 points lost in the past two games is truly unacceptable.

Over his whole career he's played as much on the right as the left, and has played about 30% of his games for us at RB. The way our wingbacks work he doesn't really need to play on the left and do his usual cut inside and shoot routine because the centre of midfield is already so congested with our two midfielders and three central attacking players. If he makes a decent run and is played in properly he should end up in a simple crossing or shooting position. He won't need to overcomplicate things or waste time cutting back in the middle.

42 minutes ago, Keithie said:

Who would cover for injury sub for Natta and McGowan , you would think Ziegler would be on the bench.

If Ziegler had been put in the squad I'd have used him as the 7th sub or maybe Cancar.

Instead we don't really have anyone there. Perhaps Aquilina could play as one of the wide central defenders. Our we just go four at the back and play a simple 2-3-1 front 6. It couldn't be that hard for players to adjust to the types of formations they've been playing their whole career until recently. Cox or Troisi or Mutch to play in the middle and have Muller & Kamau as the RW's.

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