European Super League

[Sithslayer1991]

I feel for the players and coaches, they were totally blindsided by the announcement and have to front up questions to something they had no say in. Bruno Fernandez, Harry Maguire, Henderson, Milner, Klopp, Pep and probably more came out against the decision, Maguire lost it at the Glaziers because they put all players and staff under the bus in something they don't want to be a part of.

While the owners stay in shadow not having to front up all the protests that are happening.

[Sithslayer1991]

Does anyone know what the reaction has been in Spain and Italy? 

I know the journalists have been pretty negative in Italy but nothing as vocal or visual as the reaction has been in England from what I have been able to see

[marron]

23 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

These guys would have been planning this for months if not years.....to suddenly capitulate within 48 hours suggests that they did not 'read the room'....and the 'room' is the fans in this instance.

Yeah, so my read is more either they are completely incompetent (very possible - but in that case, it was their incompetency more than anything else which killed it - for now - ) or, it was a gambit and they never had any intention of having this run in August.

Note the changes to the Champions League being made as we speak - changes they'd all be in favour of.

Their thinking they could potentially do this one day illustrates to me that they don't care about the "legacy fans". When it happens they won't care if all those fans walk. They are effectively getting on without them now anyway during COVID.

And note - all those fans haven't walked. They just said they didn't like it.  And the fans of the big 6 will be absolutely dead set against any punishments (not that they are likely to happen).

I'll believe that the fans have had an impact if things that are against the best interests of the owners are implemented on the back of continued pressure involving things like the actual mass withdrawal of support. THat would be a victory.

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, MartinTyler said:

These guys would have been planning this for months if not years.....to suddenly capitulate within 48 hours suggests that they did not 'read the room'....and the 'room' is the fans in this instance.

I’m not sure

this thing was never for the fans like you and I or the local fans in the UK.  It’s about creating a football  based reality TV show for the Tellyclappers overseas.. Some Kopite threatening to take YNWA flag home would have had little to do with it

This thing isn’t over anyway, it will come back 

 

[StringerBellend]

2 hours ago, Davo said:

 

The greed is staggering 

[StringerBellend]

Nails it 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/apr/20/supporters-of-the-rich-six-can-now-see-the-price-paid-for-success-manchester-city?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[MartinTyler]

16 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

I’m not sure

this thing was never for the fans like you and I or the local fans in the UK.  It’s about creating a football  based reality TV show for the Tellyclappers overseas.. Some Kopite threatening to take YNWA flag home would have had little to do with it

This thing isn’t over anyway, it will come back 

 

Nah...this was a groundswell reaction which would have gathered even more support had they not pulled the pin......it may come back if UEFA/FIFA stuff things up even more but maybe they will have to create brand new franchises to achieve it. 

[marron]

I genuinely hope you are right for when an actual challenge arrives Martin I really do.

[Edinburgh]

@StringerBellend

Do you still love Lucy?

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/i-could-not-support-my-club-in-the-super-league-could-you

"This morning, when my beloved Liverpool ......."

"Knowing that the club I have supported since I was six years-old ...."

[MartinTyler]

1 hour ago, marron said:

I genuinely hope you are right for when an actual challenge arrives Martin I really do.

I hear you and hopefully this is the wake-up call that FIFA/UEFA needs to prevent such moves in the future.

[Sithslayer1991]

From the Guardian:

 

With rumours swirling that some Italian and Spanish clubs are also set to withdraw, the Super League issues a statement. It says the project is not abandoned, but time will be taken to “reshape the project”.

 

The elite clubs fired a shot but this will come back if UEFA and FIFA are not careful

[Davo]

 

[MartinTyler]

36 minutes ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

From the Guardian:

 

With rumours swirling that some Italian and Spanish clubs are also set to withdraw, the Super League issues a statement. It says the project is not abandoned, but time will be taken to “reshape the project”.

 

The elite clubs fired a shot but this will come back if UEFA and FIFA are not careful

With a couple of chief execs falling on their swords it could be a long way back

[StringerBellend]

1 hour ago, Edinburgh said:

@StringerBellend

Do you still love Lucy?

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/i-could-not-support-my-club-in-the-super-league-could-you

"This morning, when my beloved Liverpool ......."

"Knowing that the club I have supported since I was six years-old ...."

"could I continue to support Liverpool?

The answer is no and that is perhaps the greatest consequence, for me, of all."

 

See, who said this ESL was a bad idea?

 

BTW the answer is yes, yes I do

[StringerBellend]

They should have gone the whole way, and invited in Guangzhou and Shanghai SIPG, might as well that's largely the market it's for

[StringerBellend]

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

[Edinburgh]

1 minute ago, StringerBellend said:

They should have gone the whole way, and invited in Guangzhou and Shanghai SIPG, might as well that's largely the market it's for

Yeah, and they could play matches on those "islands" in the South China Sea.

Plastic clubs, plastic matches, plastic islands.

And the venues will be closer for fans from the Philippines and Indonesia et al.

[Edinburgh]

2 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

Nah, it's okay. It's Australian made plastic. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Edinburgh

[pseudonym]

19 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

nah

the analogy to the ALeague would be kicking out Wellington because they're from New Zealand or Mariners because they're small

[sonar]

20 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

No, We have no P & R so you are forgiven......

[marron]

50 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

They should have gone the whole way, and invited in Guangzhou and Shanghai SIPG, might as well that's largely the market it's for

Is it though? Do Guangzhou fans hate eurosnobs too?

[marron]

48 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

A fair bit tbh. I think our experiences are what have jaded me a bit re: the fan role. I still hold out hope for the future though.

[Zelinsky]

Bayern statement by Rummenigge:

“On behalf of the board, I would like to make it explicitly clear that FC Bayern will not be taking part in the Super League. FC Bayern stands in solidarity with the Bundesliga. It always was and is a great pleasure for us to be able to play and represent Germany in the Champions League. We all remember fondly our 2020 Champions League victory in Lisbon – you don’t forget such a joyful moment. For FC Bayern, the Champions League is the best club competition in the world.”

And: "I do not believe the Super League will solve the financial problems of European clubs that have arisen as result of the coronavirus pandemic. Rather, all clubs in Europe should work in solidarity to ensure that the cost structure, especially players' salaries and agents' fees, are brought in line with revenues, to make all of European football more rational."

That's my club.

Meanwhile, Real Madrid apparently have signed David Alaba, no doubt for a salary that they can't afford. That'll be the club that, by 2024, will be dead without a super league, according to their president.

Maybe Real and Barca should have a two club superleague competition between the two of them. They can play each other 40 times per season, and that way won't have to bother with the rest of the world.

 

[marron]

2 minutes ago, marron said:

A fair bit tbh. I think our experiences are what have jaded me a bit re: the fan role. I still hold out hope for the future though.

It also feels hypocritical given our status BUT I was just reading Lucy's article, and I can't help but think- THIS is the line? It's laughable. Like that other article by the Manchester City fella - so many lines have been crossed already. I get that this one is a bigger one, removing yourself from a competition with a lot of history, closing the shop, okay, its big, but far out, if you're prepared to say "I wouldn't support the club if they did it", it's the same owners, the same disregard, the same chasing of a bottom line, the same increases in ticket prices, the same financial irregularities, tax write offs, and so on. Why is this the line? Because it's not the fans club anymore? Come on it hasn't been for decades. 

And of course its overseas fans - largely non members, shirt buyers, subscription buyers, who help these clubs feel confident they can do it. 

 

So I dont know. Like I said above I hope there is a groundswell that leads to material action to try and prevent the super league happening down the line but also to try and wrest back control. 

[Carns]

As Gary Neville said you need laws to protect football from itself.

[MartinTyler]

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

So, does it feel weird for anyone else, that basically I'm condemning this (on a message board for) and while at the same time following a franchise team in a closed league.

 

Very good point...but the A League isn't designed to cure football's global ills !!

[sonar]

Perhaps they could start by limiting the at times obscene transfer fees and salaries of some of the top players and agents.

Restriction of trade.....? Tbh a lot of these top clubs that are in financial difficulties can be traced back to stupid player deals. 

Summary of the top paid players in EPL for 2020:

David De Gea – Manchester United; £19,500,000 per season

Kevin De Bruyne – Manchester City; £18,200,000 per season

Mesut Ozil – Arsenal; £18,200,000 per season

Raheem Sterling – Manchester City; £15,600,000 per season

Paul Pogba – Manchester United; £15,080,000 per season

Anthony Martial – Manchester United; £13,000,000 per season

Sergio Aguero – Manchester City; £11,967,000 per season

Mohamed Salah – Liverpool; £10,400,000 per season

Marcus Rashford – Manchester United; £10,400,00 per season

 Harry Kane – Tottenham Hotspur; £10,400,000 per season

 Tanguy Ndombele – Tottenham Hotspur; £10,400,000 per season

 Alexandre Lacazette – Arsenal; £9,467,273 per season

Edited April 21, 2021 by sonar

[MartinTyler]

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

They should have gone the whole way, and invited in Guangzhou and Shanghai SIPG, might as well that's largely the market it's for

Well Australia gets invited to Eurovision so anything's possible 

[mack]

The A-League until recently was a "Super League" designed by the exact same type of billionaire that the ESL was designed by (money hungry, ignorant or dismissive of traditional fans, being massively out of touch). Frank Lowy hijacked the Crawford Report reform process to implement his revenge on the NSL clubs that he'd waited since 1987 to get.

On a national league the Crawford Report recommended the national league be a stand-alone body (that never happened) with the clubs as members, with a license agreement to the national federation. It would have some overlap between the two and would have observer status in the league body. This would have been similar to how the English Premier League reform had gone and had been successful for about a decade at that point.

Lowy also avoided fully embracing the reports desire structure for the voting memberships to keep control over the FFA Board. It wasn't until the recent reform process that other groups like the PFA & referees got their own vote.

The PFA produced their own report in 2002 on the future of a national league, and their plan called for a team each in Perth, Adelaide & Brisbane, 2 in Melbourne (East/West), 3 in Sydney (North-East, Southern & West/North-West) with two more slots for other teams that probably would have been New Zealand, Wollongong, Canberra or Newcastle.

Lowy ignored all that with his Rugby CEO to do one team per city, which had clear impacts in Melbourne with how long it's taken Heart/City to establish themselves as a real alternative, and lesser impacts in Sydney. Then Lowy bought one of the clubs and kept them until he got booted out.

The removal of the A-League from the direct control of the FFA and the removal of Stephen Lowy and Frank's influence were the two steps that needed to happen before any hope of having a larger first division and an eventual 2nd tier (and P/R).

Of course, there's the huge difference that the "Super League" was demolishing existing structures. When the A-League happened there was no structure.

[StringerBellend]

59 minutes ago, mack said:

The A-League until recently was a "Super League" designed by the exact same type of billionaire that the ESL was designed by (money hungry, ignorant or dismissive of traditional fans, being massively out of touch). Frank Lowy hijacked the Crawford Report reform process to implement his revenge on the NSL clubs that he'd waited since 1987 to get.

On a national league the Crawford Report recommended the national league be a stand-alone body (that never happened) with the clubs as members, with a license agreement to the national federation. It would have some overlap between the two and would have observer status in the league body. This would have been similar to how the English Premier League reform had gone and had been successful for about a decade at that point.

Lowy also avoided fully embracing the reports desire structure for the voting memberships to keep control over the FFA Board. It wasn't until the recent reform process that other groups like the PFA & referees got their own vote.

The PFA produced their own report in 2002 on the future of a national league, and their plan called for a team each in Perth, Adelaide & Brisbane, 2 in Melbourne (East/West), 3 in Sydney (North-East, Southern & West/North-West) with two more slots for other teams that probably would have been New Zealand, Wollongong, Canberra or Newcastle.

Lowy ignored all that with his Rugby CEO to do one team per city, which had clear impacts in Melbourne with how long it's taken Heart/City to establish themselves as a real alternative, and lesser impacts in Sydney. Then Lowy bought one of the clubs and kept them until he got booted out.

The removal of the A-League from the direct control of the FFA and the removal of Stephen Lowy and Frank's influence were the two steps that needed to happen before any hope of having a larger first division and an eventual 2nd tier (and P/R).

Of course, there's the huge difference that the "Super League" was demolishing existing structures. When the A-League happened there was no structure.

Surely There was a structure it was the NSL?