Derby Snatched From Wanderers Hands

Gutted

Just got home... Thast hurt more than a kick in the balls with a steel cap boot. Would rather lose 3 zip than like that. I know it's not what people want to hear and there is a lot of emotion flying around but we looked good for 88 minutes of the game. We need to play for 90 mins.

 

Is it just me or did anyone else think their goal came from a stupid handball freekick we gave away and couldn't defend which wasn't required with 2 min's to go. We gave away a few pointless free kicks.

 

We also have nothing from dead ball situations, this is so frustrating.

 

Pio was better tonight than any other game he has played. When Bridge is fit as with Santa, he will give a lot of headaches. Perhaps he hasn't found the net but he is a big unit and can hold off defenders and lay it off for others, ala Mark Viduka.

 

F u c k e d night... We fall down, we get up, we brush ourselves off, we live to fight another day.

Gutted

This

 

Plus do the cove only have one chant...because I swear its the same one over and over...god their ****

 

It'd be easier to take if we didn't play well or suffer such bs refereeing

Edited October 24, 2015 by Horus

I don't know what others may think, but that was a sckitzophrenic performance at best - the backs/defensive mids and forwards/attacking mids all seemed to be playing to a different game plan, and there was minimal linking play between the utterly pointless triangles at the back and the season one counter punch up front. I can see good signs up front (Nichols is almost too good for our team, I would argue), but the attackers aren't playing a style that suits our more, ah, deliberative style at the back.

 

That all said, Sydney FC were no better. The only difference is they took their chance when it counted. It's unfair, because neither team deserved anything from that otherwise non-event of a match.

 

That final (or what I recall as final) yellow for us mystified me, much like others here, it would seem. It seemed to be a minimal nudge to the back in a congested part of the pitch, so with the ref not allocating a yellow for that challenge on our 'keeper (that the other player was a yellow or not shouldn't matter, especially after last what happened last weekend in the A-League), I'm still not sure why the yellow was given.

Is it just me or did anyone else think their goal came from a stupid handball freekick we gave away and couldn't defend which wasn't required with 2 min's to go. We gave away a few pointless free kicks.

 

We also have nothing from dead ball situations, this is so frustrating.

 

 

The handball looked like it was from the ball rising up the body. It looked a bit unlucky. Having said that, SFC have a bunch of pr*cks that will milk anything that comes their way. If you're putting your hands on an opponent, it just gives them an excuse to play for a free kick.

 

We had to score from our attacking play, plain and simple. Sydney were disciplined enough to hold out by putting numbers behind the ball. As soon as Simon came on, I had a bad feeling. We are most vulnerable when locked level (chasing 3 points) with the clock winding down. SFC had maybe 2 noteworthy chances all game. 1 shot on target. Bad luck...we couldn't put the ball in at the other end.

 

Losing against the run of play - It's nothing new and it happens to all the big teams from time to time. We have to focus next week as Perth have 2 quality centre backs going forward on corners. Guyon Fernandez is another big target, and Castro has high pedigree. It's important we score first. The sooner the better.

Just smashed a kebab so it's softened the cruel blow ive felt tonight, hurt losing that way but a there's always gotta be a loser.

 

We're missing Santa IMO, we need someone to keep Pio on his heels for a spot.

 

Perth will be shitting themselves. Coming up against a team who lost the derby at the end of the game, the lads are gonna be pumped for that one and so will the fans, can't wait

 

Cove got owned again, only sing when their winning

Bridge probably needs a few weeks to get match fitness. Other than that, the only other attacking option was Vidosic, so once Castelen came on, we were effectively stuck with what we had.

If Piovaccari doesn't show anything in the next couple of games, is it bad that I hope he gets injured and we can replace him? $750k a year is a lot of budget for what he's producing. I just don't understand what's going on with him. Did his partner leave him or something? Is that the reason he came out to Australia and looks disconnected from the world?

100% agree with you, our two early substitutions limited the effectiveness of the substitutions in the second half. You want your subs to have an attacking impact whether it be a formation change or fresh legs but that wasn't possible.

 

I assume Bridge would have come on 55-60 for Sotirio & maybe Pio for Vidosic but two injuries through those plans out the window. I assume the reason why he left the bridge substitution at 80 minutes was he was making sure that just in case anyone else needed to come off. 10 minutes does nothing for match fitness. Arnold had the luxury of making two aggressive substitutions who made an impact on the match.

 

Some of you need to watch what our number nine does a little more closely.

I'm not saying he's magnificent but his talent was obvious tonight and we're seeing how he's fitting into our style.

He was strong, linked up with the midfield nicely and is laying it off beautifully.

Again, I'm not saying he's a revelation, but to be having a dig at him shows, at best, no patience and at worst, no knowledge of football.

.

I can't say I agree with you when it comes to the final third of the pitch.

His off the ball movement has been poor on most occasions down to a lack of pace. How many crosses did we put in? How many corners has he made a commanding run on and gotten near the ball. Not enough...yet.

The fact is that Vidosic is making better runs than Piovaccari. Dario has been on the end of more crosses and produced more convincing headers. That's a problem for me when you are playing 4231 and exploiting the flanks.

The Piovaccari on the showreel hasn't arrived yet. I'm not saying he won't come. I still have faith because his record speaks for itself, and there are glimpses of promise. At the moment, he is not fitting into our system or connecting with his teammates well enough.

I'm looking at things from a balanced perspective over 90 minutes. At the moment he is showing less anticipation and attacking awareness than Dino Kresinger.

  

I agree with much of what you say but disagree with the role of Pio on the field:

- He is coming deep to get the ball but we want him to be on the last man, you can't have both

- I thought his runs between the two cb's were what you expect

- Pio came front post for crosses & the ball went back post for Dario who came in off his wing. I don't think there is an issue with that

- Pio missed the sitter from the Dimas header & also took too many touches on one of his attacks in the second half

- He had his best game this season

 

Yeah I don't disagree, he doesn't look a 750k striker. I'm sure he'll come good, not so sure if he'll justify that price tag but I'll be behind him all the way.

He could just be characteristically hot and cold. Nobody here has seen him play half a dozen games consecutively (unless we have some Steaua or Eibar fans lurking).

Some players are an invisible man for 5 games, then turn it on for the next 2. I'm hoping this is the case.

  

The other impact is the affect of his lack of goals on his confidence, that doesn't help. He isn't a Dino that has a big engine nor is he the type of striker who has a sudden burst of speed like Juric/Bulut. He needs to adapt his game to the team but the coaches need to direct him on how he can be more beneficial to the team. He needs to put away the sitters.

 

We are not a team that bangs in goals. That's not Pio's fault. It's the way we play. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but to blame it only on him is madness. He links up well and does hold up play good too. We might need to find a more direct approach for goals and then I'm convinced he would start banging them in. Calling him lazy, and saying that he looks disinterested is terrible inaccurate

So have Pio drop a few yards deeper with his back to the goal - playing more grounded balls through the centre to his feet? Any opposition will figure that out very quickly and we will end up playing the same system we play now out of instinct.

Not to mention, it is far less limiting having Dario on one wing and Castelen on the other, with Nichols being a nuisance in the centre offering a square option. Running the ball through the flanks is the system the team is built on. Piovaccari needs to get his lines right.

Pio is dropping deep, that's his problem but do you get the feeling that Popa is trying to get him play higher up the field? I don't know if he has the explosive pace to take on defenders & beat them. Losing Romeo so early was a massive blow, almost like playing the match with only 2 substitutions.

I don't know what others may think, but that was a sckitzophrenic performance at best - the backs/defensive mids and forwards/attacking mids all seemed to be playing to a different game plan, and there was minimal linking play between the utterly pointless triangles at the back and the season one counter punch up front. I can see good signs up front (Nichols is almost too good for our team, I would argue), but the attackers aren't playing a style that suits our more, ah, deliberative style at the back.

That all said, Sydney FC were no better. The only difference is they took their chance when it counted. It's unfair, because neither team deserved anything from that otherwise non-event of a match.

That final (or what I recall as final) yellow for us mystified me, much like others here, it would seem. It seemed to be a minimal nudge to the back in a congested part of the pitch, so with the ref not allocating a yellow for that challenge on our 'keeper (that the other player was a yellow or not shouldn't matter, especially after last what happened last weekend in the A-League), I'm still not sure why the yellow was given.

Both sides defended well. There were a number of goal saving interventions from SFC.

 

Wanderers won quite a few balls in midfield from good reading of the play and improved pressing.

 

Sotirio scored a legitimate goal, though apart from that, most of his successful passes were short, safe, rhythm killing balls backwards. A player of his speed needs to be able to beat a man, take the ball to the goal line and drill in a low, hard cross.

 

Nichols couldn't get himself on the ball enough because the ball was played more through the wings, but again, he was determined and played well. Vidosic showed ambition taking men on and linked up well with his teammates. Had Castelen lasted the game, he could have been the difference. He was sharp and released the ball incisively - and then he got injured.

 

Dimas and Andreu both distributed the ball adequately IMO. Alberto's accurate clearances probably gave us another 2-5% of the possession come the full time whistle. I'd say they were the reason Sydney had so few chances, let alone dangerous chances.

 

Hamill's long throws could come in really handy. There were moments when he looked really uncomfortable with the ball. Probably psychological.

 

Neville picked up yet another yellow card. Jamieson can sometimes take unnecessary risks at the back as he likes to beat his man with the dribble.

 

Redmayne had little work to do but did his job correctly. His delay on some goal kicks puzzled me though.

 

Is it just me or did anyone else think their goal came from a stupid handball freekick we gave away and couldn't defend which wasn't required with 2 min's to go. We gave away a few pointless free kicks.

We also have nothing from dead ball situations, this is so frustrating.

 

The handball looked like it was from the ball rising up the body. It looked a bit unlucky. Having said that, SFC have a bunch of pr*cks that will milk anything that comes their way. If you're putting your hands on an opponent, it just gives them an excuse to play for a free kick.

We had to score from our attacking play, plain and simple. Sydney were disciplined enough to hold out by putting numbers behind the ball. As soon as Simon came on, I had a bad feeling. We are most vulnerable when locked level (chasing 3 points) with the clock winding down. SFC had maybe 2 noteworthy chances all game. 1 shot on target. Bad luck...we couldn't put the ball in at the other end.

Losing against the run of play - It's nothing new and it happens to all the big teams from time to time. We have to focus next week as Perth have 2 quality centre backs going forward on corners. Guyon Fernandez is another big target, and Castro has high pedigree. It's important we score first. The sooner the better.

Yes had to score from our good play but even at half time I felt that ESFC were in the better position. Apart from losing a bit of momentum when Castelen came off, going into half time at 0-0 meant all that good play was for nothing. At half time I said to my girlfriend that this game will be decided by a goal & won't be enough for either team to get back into the game, sadly true.

 

I think we were most vunlerable when we played so well for the majority of the match but at the 60-80min we had nothing to show for it, the longer it went on the harder it was going to be for us (to we sit & defend or try to score?). In the match, ESFC had 4 shots to our 12.

 

I think the issue is now we have switched from a counter attacking style in S1, to but more possesion based in S2 to trying to play possesion based in S3 with the wrong players. Now in S4 we have got the right players but we have fallen into habit of giving away easy goals which was synonymous with the majority of goals we conceded in S3. We need to get back to S1 & S2 (also the cornerstone of our ACL win) which was built on a rock solid defence who took minimal risks & made no mistakes. The issue we are finding in S4 is that playing possesion with players in the opposition half leaves us open to the counter attack which is how ESFC got a foothold into the game in the last 20 minutes or so.

 

I agree, I feel that a goal will able us to relax a bit more & control the game better. We can't afford to have nothing to show for all the attacking play by the 60-70 minute especially away from home. The goal which was ruled offside (Sotirio's knee cap was offside, benefit of the doubt anyone?) would have been a crucial goal should it have stood.

I agree with much of what you say but disagree with the role of Pio on the field:

- He is coming deep to get the ball but we want him to be on the last man, you can't have both

- I thought his runs between the two cb's were what you expect

- Pio came front post for crosses & the ball went back post for Dario who came in off his wing. I don't think there is an issue with that

- Pio missed the sitter from the Dimas header & also took too many touches on one of his attacks in the second half

- He had his best game this season

 

I wasn't necessarily suggesting he play deeper. It was a hypothetical to get him more touches on the ball. Coming deeper might have a positive effect if the wingers get into advanced positions for a quick play of the ball. A sort of give and go where Pio lays off the ball with his back to the goal outside the 18 yard box. Pio then makes a diagonal run with the winger cutting in. The opposite winger offers a run outside with Pio making an inverted run (the outside of the foot option). If the ball goes out to the other winger, Pio attacks the far post.

 

Pio is coming very deep to defend which probably isn't entirely necessary.

 

I will mention that he has an ability to drop his shoulder with his back to the goal. His pace might not be electric but he has reasonable acceleration on the first couple strides.

Edited October 24, 2015 by torcidaSI

Main frame  of the body was not offside. The 12 year old linesman got it wrong. Just like he made NTS retake a free kick from the 6yd line for offside when the ball disdn't go outside the box in the 2nd half. WTF..In the past couple of years I have seen that pimply faced teen linesman cost many a team points.

Our defence and midfield is fine the way it was tonight. They matched it with SFC. We just need forwards who can unlock a defence. Vidosicand Castelen are the most dangerous players. Nicols plays well at the beginning but runs out of puff. Sortiro is raw and young but loses too much possession. Striker is a problem as Pio doesn't have the touch or control for me. The way Ninkovic scored tonight is the kind of stuff we should be seeing from our striker.

Edited October 24, 2015 by WestSyd

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I wasn't necessarily suggesting he play deeper. It was a hypothetical to get him more touches on the ball. Coming deeper might have a positive effect if the wingers get into advanced positions for a quick play of the ball. A sort of give and go where Pio lays off the ball with his back to the goal outside the 18 yard box. Pio then makes a diagonal run with the winger cutting in. The opposite winger offers a run outside with Pio making an inverted run (the outside of the foot option). If the ball goes out to the other winger, Pio attacks the far post.

 

Pio is coming very deep to defend which probably isn't entirely necessary.

 

I will mention that he has an ability to drop his shoulder with his back to the goal. His pace might not be electric but he has reasonable acceleration on the first couple strides.

I have a feeling Pio coming deep to defend is something that Popa demands. Agree on his drop of the shoulder but I feel that once he gets the opportunity, he needs to shoot. He tends to try to get in the perfect position, take too many touches & the chance disappears.

 

Mmmmm.... I'm not sure it's something that he would have done a lot of in his career, I feel like he thought he could come here & dominate but he finds the pace of the game higher than he anticipated & more physical than he is used to in Europe. I think Castelen coming off the park handicapped us & instead of having two big weapons on both wings we only had one (no offence to Sotirio, had his best game this season but he is only young). The shame is that he probably just started to develop a relationship with Castelen but now with the hamstring injury you just don't know how long he'll be out for!

Our defence and midfield is fine the way it was tonight. They matched it with SFC. We just need forwards who can unlock a defence. Vidosicand Castelen are the most dangerous players. Nicols plays well at the beginning but runs out of puff. Sortiro is raw and young but loses too much possession. Striker is a problem as Pio doesn't have the touch or control for me. The way Ninkovic scored tonight is the kind of stuff we should be seeing from our striker

Agree on defence & midfield but it's important that we don't switch off & make basic errors, we did it against Brisbane 3 times, Adelaide once & then again only one mistake tonight. We can have a solid defence but useless if we keep on making errors.

 

On your next point, with the quality we have behind the striker, you those players to unlock the defence & then we want the striker to finish them off. So I disagree with you, but it's a big call to say that he doesn't have the control or touch. I do feel that he doesn't have confidence that a striker needs & maybe the pressure is getting to him!

We need time go gel.

We need time go gel.

Nope, we just need to take our chances. I think we are gelling quite well

Piovaccari doesn't have the dribbling skills and close control of say Fornaroli. I think that's what WestSyd meant.

 

Pio's just not getting any shooting opportunities. I agree with you - he overplays it. Not necessarily just with the number of touches but also the nature of the touches. The pace of the game is higher tempo than he would have been used to in Romania and Italy.

 

The Spanish game can be fast and direct, though it is infinitely more precise than the game here. Here we have loose balls and poor ball retention. He's having to use his body like he did against butchering defenders in Serie B, but also adjust to the fact the ball is going everywhere.

 

It's a catch 22. Pio is not getting into open space to receive passes. The service is not consistently pinpoint. You can't really do too much about the latter so I think it's going to have to be Pio who adapts.

 

We need time go gel.

Nope, we just need to take our chances. I think we are gelling quite well

 

 

What? No.

 

If you don't score you can't win. That's it.

 

Leaking a goal at an away derby is no crime, but we just didn't have quality to score. That's it.

 

Piovacarri right now is probably the shittest marquee the A-league has ever seen. I hope I end up with egg on my face, but that's just the truth.

 

Maybe a good booing is in order?

 

We need time go gel.

Nope, we just need to take our chances. I think we are gelling quite well

 

I agree Prydz, one goal wins a game, and the Smurfs did it .

I'm happy how it's coming together, shape, structure, our new defensive resolve, I'm seeing & feeling season 1 again, I'd love to see the game we absolutely smack someone with at least 4 or 5 goals. Its going to come sooner than later. There are goals in the Wanderers, I truly believe so.

Piovaccari doesn't have the dribbling skills and close control of say Fornaroli. I think that's what WestSyd meant.

Pio's just not getting any shooting opportunities. I agree with you - he overplays it. Not necessarily just with the number of touches but also the nature of the touches. The pace of the game is higher tempo than he would have been used to in Romania and Italy.

The Spanish game can be fast and direct, though it is infinitely more precise than the game here. Here we have loose balls and poor ball retention. He's having to use his body like he did against butchering defenders in Serie B, but also adjust to the fact the ball is going everywhere.

It's a catch 22. Pio is not getting into open space to receive passes. The service is not consistently pinpoint. You can't really do too much about the latter so I think it's going to have to be Pio who adapts.

Close dribbling skills, can we make that judgement after 3 games? Big call...

 

I think the shooting opportunities feeds into your catch 22 scenario, hopefully the coaching staff can help get the best out him. He needs to adapt but we just need to make sure everyone is on the same page. Also playing with one striker means that he gets crowded out by 1 CB & 1 DCM meaning that it makes the inconsistent service hard to deal with plus add into teams sitting deep, keeping compressed making it more difficult for him.

 

 

We need time go gel.

Nope, we just need to take our chances. I think we are gelling quite well

 

 

What? No.

 

If you don't score you can't win. That's it.

 

Leaking a goal at an away derby is no crime, but we just didn't have quality to score. That's it.

 

Piovacarri right now is probably the shittest marquee the A-league has ever seen. I hope I end up with egg on my face, but that's just the truth.

 

Maybe a good booing is in order?

 

You seem to be forgetting the Maltese superstar....  

What? No.

 

If you don't score you can't win. That's it.

 

Leaking a goal at an away derby is no crime, but we just didn't have quality to score. That's it.

 

Piovacarri right now is probably the shittest marquee the A-league has ever seen. I hope I end up with egg on my face, but that's just the truth.

 

Maybe a good booing is in order?

You nearly got me Legion

 

I strongly disagree on the booing, what purpose does it serve? Save that for in the pub afterwards or online unless it was a totally pathetic hopeless individual performance.

 

Yes, it was worrying that we didn't create too many clear cut opportunities & reminded me of the second half vs Brisbane Round One when they sat deep & hit on the counter. In all honesty, losing two players to injury (one has been the most dangerous this season) doesn't help the cause, limiting how we could change the game in the second half. The key for me is that while we are not scoring we can't afford to leak goals. If we score 3-4 every game then 1 mistake doesn't matter but we aren't clicking in the final third, no goals = can't afford to make mistakes.

On a positive note I thought the Topor-Alberto combination appeared to be an impenetrable wall, even the goal was not due to any mistake they made.  Otherwise not sure what to think.  After re-watching the game once I got home it seems we totally dominated the second half, the only time they looked remotely dangerous was when they scored, otherwise they were barely in the game.  I guess I should feel good about it but it seems to just make it worse.  Fred is improving every game, if he stops improving then it's time to ring the alarm bells.

 

If anyone thinks we are losing the same as last season it might be worth going back and re-watching our away game against Adelaide from last season (reminder: they should have put us away 5-0 and we couldn't get the ball out of our own third).  Then compare it to our play this season.  We might be losing but it certainly is not just a continuation of last season.  I have faith, if we keep playing like this it isn't possible to keep losing.

Relax everyone...

 

History is on our side. We lost our first derby at parra 0-1 thanks to a late goal. This has season 1 written all over it

It burns. I hate those ****s. They're sore losers and sorer winners. Half of them probably won't even watch another game until the next derby.

 

I was very happy with how we played, we dominated the game. A big factor against us is that we just don't have luck on our side, we aren't getting the rub of the green at the moment. Although with Ben Williams it's always hard to get that anytime.

 

Wasn't brilliant but I thought Fred put in a decent shift, better than his first two games anyway. Some of it is deserved but I still think the criticism of him is becoming more of a fad rather than actual analysis and opinion...

 

I've been very very critical of Sotirio but I thought he was actually not too bad. Was a great finish for the goal.

 

The one thing thing that's holding us back yet again though, as it always has, is our set pieces. I've made this comment at least once every season; I don't know why we even bother taking them. Even with new players coming in, it's still the same old story, I just don't understand. We don't even look threatening from a corner, it's just a wasted sprint up and back the pitch for the taller guys. If we can solve that mystery then that will really take us up another level.

That Sotirio finish was pretty classy

 

Wasn't brilliant but I thought Fred put in a decent shift, better than his first two games anyway. Some of it is deserved but I still think the criticism of him is becoming more of a fad rather than actual analysis and opinion...

 

 I agree with this, he had a pretty decent dig last night, there was one moment in the second half that he had the ball just on the 18 yard box, and just had a few touches to many for a striker, however apart from that he was stronger on the ball. Nothing going our way really, otherwise we played well..

On a positive note I thought the Topor-Alberto combination appeared to be an impenetrable wall, even the goal was not due to any mistake they made.  Otherwise not sure what to think.  After re-watching the game once I got home it seems we totally dominated the second half, the only time they looked remotely dangerous was when they scored, otherwise they were barely in the game.  I guess I should feel good about it but it seems to just make it worse.  Fred is improving every game, if he stops improving then it's time to ring the alarm bells.

 

If anyone thinks we are losing the same as last season it might be worth going back and re-watching our away game against Adelaide from last season (reminder: they should have put us away 5-0 and we couldn't get the ball out of our own third).  Then compare it to our play this season.  We might be losing but it certainly is not just a continuation of last season.  I have faith, if we keep playing like this it isn't possible to keep losing.

 

Believe me it is possible, losing is a habit and the longer it goes that harder it can be to break. I remember the Boro side of 97 with the likes of Ravanelli and Juninho which was relegated. We tortured teams for whole games, and yet week after week we managed to find new and interesting ways of not winning games. Some weeks it was wasteful in front of goal, other weeks stupid mistakes at the back and on occasions a combination of both!

 

Some might say the next game is only round 4, but for mine it is a must win and the pressure is on. If it is as flat at the Brisbane game we have big problems.

 

Much to be positive about from last night, Mitch again, the defense looking much better organised but we have to start turning this in to results!

Our weakest position at the moment is the right fullback. Neville was poor. Always out of position and way too compact with the other CB's.

 

Thought Sotirio had a poor first half but in the second, he was much better. Had some excellent link up play with Jamieson but his service to Pio is garbage.

 

Loads of bagging out Pio on this forum but most of the problems lie with the quality of service that he's getting. He's using his body well at times and last night he had some really great touches putting his teammates through.

 

Overall though, we need a confidence boosting win and last night that slipped away from us in the most agonising way possible

 

***** sake, just got home!!!

 

This made my night though!

 

 

I spent a good few minutes professing my love for Copa90 & my man crush on Eli out my car window

 

Bit shattered but sleep will not come easy after 4 shots of coffee!

 

Know what you mean, I can't sleep yet either, still have buzzing in my ears. May as well stay up a bit and watch another ******* team that can't score goals at the moment - Middlesbrough    

 

Still could be worse..... could be Leeds United Lloydy 

 

 

we might need to develop some leeds fan-like resilience and black humour if we keep losing games this regularly 

How many late challenges and body checks did smurfs get away with last night?