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  • VAR & FFA Must Go After Derby Disgrace


    mack

    Those in charge of Football Federation Australia must follow the VAR out the door after another display of the VAR and Australia's inept referees cheating the Wanderers, snuffing out a potential comeback in what should have been a classic Sydney Derby.

    Sydney FC scored an early goal just 4 minutes into the match. Adam Le Fondre standing in an offside position at a free kick, hung around after a half-clearance, the ball fell to him after a shot back in. Vedran Janjetovic smothered his initial shot but another piece of luck had him smack the rebound into an empty net. Replays showed that not only was Le Fondre offside at the free kick (but according to the VAR, somehow not interfering with play), but that Mahazi had been interfered with by an offside Brosque. The score was 1-0, and the VAR did nothing.

    After the break the Wanderers were two behind having gifted their opponents a golden chance to score. On the edge of their own area, Sotirio played a hospital ball to Josh Risdon, and instead of trying to clear, he played a sideways pass intended for Mahazi that was intercepted by Ninkovic, and he pounced to play through Brosque and his first time strike beat Janjetovic at the far post.

    Despite going two behind, the Wanderers did show some of the vaunted mentality Markus Babbel has been trying to instill in his charges, but when they finally converted one of their chances to score, it was cruelly and idiotically over-turned by the inept Chris Beath with an assist from the VAR. Baumjohann and Risdon worked down the right flank, the Risdon cross made it's way to the other end of the area where Roly Bonevacia smashed an 18 yard first time rocket past Andrew Redmayne.

    With no real protests from the home side, the VAR intervened to take away the goal. Chris Beath decided that Michael Zullo had been fouled by Jaushua Sotirio in the lead up to the cross. While Sotirio was in an offside position, Zullo's choice to dive into Sotirio while meters away from the ball was rewarded with Beath over-turning the decision by declaring Sotirio had fouled the SFC defender. in the aftermath Markus Babbel exploded at the fourth official, remonstrating to show his disgust at the call. He was awarded the A-League's first "Coach Red Card" by Beath. Babbel then walked around the long boundary of the Sydney Cricket Ground, a route that took him in front of the RBB who roared their approval.

    The failure was compounded in the post-game with Beath being interviewed and stating that the decision was actually offside, even though vision showed clearly that his decision was that it was a foul. Additionally, his interview stated that the linesman who was as close to Sotirio as Zullo was to Risdon, had completely missed the offside/foul and that the decision was solely made by VAR and himself.

    It was another display of referees who aren't good enough to be officiating our most important football games.

    Enough is enough.

    This is not just the VAR. Although it needs to be cancelled immediately. The VAR failed from the moment it was introduced. Bad decisions have been made since Wellington Phoenix were robbed against Sydney FC in Round 26 in 2016/17. Perth Glory were robbed in the Semi-Final in that season. The technology failed Newcastle Jets in the Grand Final last. It failed to detect Bruno Fornaroli diving in the recent Melbourne Derby. It tonight secured another game for Sydney FC. Offsides are a lottery. Tonight WSW have a goal taken away for offside. Last year Adelaide when playing against us had a clear offside goal investigated by the VAR be allowed to stand.

    The Wanderers were cruelled against Perth Glory when sideline cameras failed to be in the right decision for an obvious offside, leading to a red card against us. It ignores certain laws like encroachment at penalties, and offsides against players standing offside from free kicks. When looking at holding in the penalty area from set pieces the VAR is seemingly over intended to confirm whatever decision was made on the field. When a decision isn't made on the pitch by the referee, the basic law against holding is ignored by the VAR. The level of intervention around forceful tackles once saw the Mariners reduced by two players from VAR decisions, while other tackles that could break legs are ignored in other games.

    This is the result of a long held refusal by the FFA to enforce basic standards of officiating skill. We have seen officials give baffling offsides against players standing behind the ball being played. We have seen offsides given from a throw in. There is zero consistency in the application of offside. There is zero consistency in the application of handball. Certain teams received baffling leniency when playing tactics that deliberately disrupt their opposition with professional fouls in the midfield.

    The time for incremental change is over.

    Now that the FFA Governance saga is over, I call on whoever makes up the new FFA Board to immediately sack FFA Chief Executive David Gallop, Head of the A-League Greg O'Rourke, FFA Referees boss Ben Wilson, and A-League referees Chris Beath, Jarred Gillett, Kurt Ams, Peter Green and Shaun Evans. The FFA/A-League positions must be filled with people passionate about football. The VAR must be immediately cancelled and never return to Australian football.

    Get in touch with the football associations in German, England, Japan and Holland. Ask for the phone numbers of some consistent referees, who might be inclined to spend 6 months in the Australian summer. Bring them over. 

    The current people in charge of Football Federation Australia have lost the trust of the football community. 

    The new FFA Board must take the chance to rebuild the foundation of our sport in a positive, intelligent matter to take the sport forward once again. We risk turning the A-League into a joke, and having it be abandoned to the ruin of all the good work done by the players, clubs and supporters up to now. If the FFA fail to rectify the situation, a repeat of the ban list fan boycott is on the cards, and was called for by Mark Bosnich in the Fox Sports post-game show. I would wholeheartedly approve of that action.


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    34 minutes ago, leslie said:

    What concerns me most is Riera's lack of form. Going on last year, you'd bet your house on a goal every other game. This years he's missing sitters.

    I thought he had a pretty good crack with the average service he was given the other night. Our free kicks, corners and crosses into the box are so inconsistent, even the secondary play when it's cleared back out is poor and usually results in the ball just being played backwards, killing any momentum.

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    no VAR comment from me enough has been said I will go the Babbel route and talk about the team performance.

    Roly before disallowed goal was just s***. I mean unnecessarily giving fouls in no pressure situations, giving the ball away. But after VAR its like unlocked beast mode or something, and literraly was shoving people of the ball showing that strong physicality and confidence with the ball. Hammil another one before VAR was poor. He couldn't marshall the defence properly and Tongyik got him out of jail quiet a few times, but most of all his passing was poor and led to a few Smurf chances. Risdon well IDK whats going on with him but he is better than what he is showing. Elrich had a decent game improvement from last week.

    Baccus had a much better game than last week but Mahazi was terrible. 1st half in particular he took a while to get going and we were getting overrun.

    In attack only Treejack showed any true quality and moments for us to score his vision is amazing and no biased but this guy is genuinely better than Ninkovic. Some his passes are really world class and vision to see the runs Reira and Sotirio make which led to some of our better chances in the first half. Just a shame that the player he passes to don't make the most of his chances, bar that Roly VAR shamble

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    I watch the bundesliga. Where VAR was introduced at the start of this season.

    No suprises.typical German efficiency. Used only when real doubt about a decision. VAR review process quick efficient. and in the games when ive seen it used . Usually on the money with decision. German referees seem to get it !!!

    Same VAR system here and Germany. So much controversy here. 

    German refs professional and top class

    A League refs muppets......

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    17 hours ago, sonar said:

    A better caption would of been....."  what are the rules again..? "...............

    What about this "What's a technical ruling thing, ****........I have to ask Mr Lowy maybe.........."

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    https://www.a-league.com.au/news/whistle-round-2-VAR-referee-decisions-aleague

    Law 11 of FIFA Laws of the Game states “In situations where a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball.”

    In this incident when the ball is played to Josh Risdon, Jaushua Sotirio is in an offside position. Sotirio is in the way of Michael Zullo and interferes with his movement towards the ball. It is an offside offence because it impacts on Zullo’s ability to challenge for the ball. The VAR recommends an On Field Review. The referee reviews the footage and he disallows the goal.

    Although this technically is the correct decision, having listened to people in the game since Saturday night, we agree that the VAR should have a higher threshold for clear and obvious errors to get the balance right. The VAR should avoid intervening in subjective and technical decisions which are not clearly and obviously wrong and leave those decisions to the on-field match officials. The VARs have been instructed to apply this position in future.

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    Funny how that didn't apply when it was Sydney FC scoring a goal against Perth in a semi-final. 

    Or when Adelaide scored a goal against us last season. Hell, that goal came directly off the foot of an opposition player before being scored.

    Or when Mahazi was disrupted from going toward the ball by Brosque who was offside.

    FFA are making it up as they go along.

    Baumjohann was taken out and the foul ended in the box = penalty. Where's the apology for missing that?

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    1 minute ago, mack said:

    Funny how that didn't apply when it was Sydney FC scoring a goal against Perth in a semi-final. 

    Or when Adelaide scored a goal against us last season. Hell, that goal came directly off the foot of an opposition player before being scored.

    Or when Mahazi was disrupted from going toward the ball by Brosque who was offside.

    FFA are making it up as they go along.

    Baumjohann was taken out and the foul ended in the box = penalty. Where's the apology for missing that?

    You won't get an apology for their support of Their sky blues.

    Let's see what On Friday night against the other sky blue team.

    FFA Cup won't have VAR so Adelaide have a chance.

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    28 minutes ago, mack said:

    Funny how that didn't apply when it was Sydney FC scoring a goal against Perth in a semi-final. 

    Or when Adelaide scored a goal against us last season. Hell, that goal came directly off the foot of an opposition player before being scored.

    Or when Mahazi was disrupted from going toward the ball by Brosque who was offside.

    FFA are making it up as they go along.

    Baumjohann was taken out and the foul ended in the box = penalty. Where's the apology for missing that?

    Or in Sydney's first goal when le Fondre was offside from the free kick and was interfering with play in that players were drawn to him.  Questionable whether he was also offside when he received the ball for his first shot in that piece.  How wasn't VAR used there???

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    3 hours ago, HillsWanderer said:

    https://www.a-league.com.au/news/whistle-round-2-VAR-referee-decisions-aleague

    Law 11 of FIFA Laws of the Game states “In situations where a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball.”

    In this incident when the ball is played to Josh Risdon, Jaushua Sotirio is in an offside position. Sotirio is in the way of Michael Zullo and interferes with his movement towards the ball. It is an offside offence because it impacts on Zullo’s ability to challenge for the ball. The VAR recommends an On Field Review. The referee reviews the footage and he disallows the goal.

    Although this technically is the correct decision, having listened to people in the game since Saturday night, we agree that the VAR should have a higher threshold for clear and obvious errors to get the balance right. The VAR should avoid intervening in subjective and technical decisions which are not clearly and obviously wrong and leave those decisions to the on-field match officials. The VARs have been instructed to apply this position in future.

    Respectfully disagree (btw that's not the 2018 version of rule 11. I recall it's worded slightly differently but in similar terms. But let's go with your quoted version... The answer is the same regardless)

    The critical part you gloss over is whether Zullo's opportunity 'to play or challenge for the ball' is impacted.  

    This additional requirement mandates that Sotirio has to interfere with Zullo's ability (a) to play the ball or (b) to challenge for the ball. If you accept this interpretation there can be no offence because Zullo has no realistic, practical or reasonable opportunity of doing either. Not when the ball was released. Not at the point of contact between the two of them. Not afterwards either. 

    The decision was wrong in the football sense. And it was wrong in the technical sense.

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    For me, Beath's performance on Saturday was worse than Ams the week before. Will Beath be rested next week? Not a chance!

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    The IFAB laws of the game for this issue are that a player is offside "on becoming involved in active play" by "making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball".

    It also specifically states the situation Sotirio was in by saying additionally:

    "Player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent play or challenge for the ball."

    Sotirio didn't make any obvious action. He also didn't interfere with Zullo because he didn't impact on the ability of Zullo to challenge for the ball because Zullo had no ability even if Sotirio wasn't there.

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    21 hours ago, sonar said:

    A better caption would of been....."  what are the rules again..? "...............

    You asked for it: 

    uiweXS5.png

    On a serious note...

    - You can see Babbel is going to be a fan favourite and going to fit very well in the club, I got a feeling he'll make the squad change to what he wants next season for sure as I feel the squad is still a 'Post-Gombau' squad.

    - VAR is going to be the talk of the whole season and going to drive everyone f*cking mental (until it's gone for good!)

    - Baumjohann is a beast that should change is surname to "BEASTjohann"

    - Hopefully this week Reira begins his race to the golden boot and since we're facing the Nix, hopefully Reira runs past Nichols and gives him the two fingers with his tongue out at least once or twice.

    - Also, It's still Oktoberfest, right? Hopefully Babbel had a few beers on Sunday afternoon to cool himself down after Saturday's outburst. 

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    Btw, how pathetic is Zullo as a person? Saying he wouldn't mind being further from the fans...constantly screaming at refs like Brosque...and one of the biggest divers in the league. Couldn't be happier that twats like him don't play for us.

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    8 hours ago, mack said:

    The IFAB laws of the game for this issue are that a player is offside "on becoming involved in active play" by "making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball".

    It also specifically states the situation Sotirio was in by saying additionally:

    "Player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent play or challenge for the ball."

    Sotirio didn't make any obvious action. He also didn't interfere with Zullo because he didn't impact on the ability of Zullo to challenge for the ball because Zullo had no ability even if Sotirio wasn't there.

    Sotirio never makes any obvious or purposeful actions...

    Further proof that Beath has no idea

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    10 hours ago, LetsPele said:

    Respectfully disagree (btw that's not the 2018 version of rule 11. I recall it's worded slightly differently but in similar terms. But let's go with your quoted version... The answer is the same regardless)

    The critical part you gloss over is whether Zullo's opportunity 'to play or challenge for the ball' is impacted.  

    This additional requirement mandates that Sotirio has to interfere with Zullo's ability (a) to play the ball or (b) to challenge for the ball. If you accept this interpretation there can be no offence because Zullo has no realistic, practical or reasonable opportunity of doing either. Not when the ball was released. Not at the point of contact between the two of them. Not afterwards either. 

    The decision was wrong in the football sense. And it was wrong in the technical sense.

    You do realise that I just copied the whole thing from https://www.a-league.com.au/news/whistle-round-2-VAR-referee-decisions-aleague.

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    On 28 October 2018 at 3:23 PM, Bellby said:

    I couldn’t remember which game it was nor if the refs came out afterwards & said they made the wrong call or not.

    Have they ever? They always seem to come to the right call. Funnily enough, they said that they were right but in the future wouldn't over turn a similar decision. Go figure.

    On 28 October 2018 at 9:03 AM, Smoggy said:

    Just on Roly..

    He went on a great run at Perth last week and grabbed us a draw with a great strike. He made a few good runs yesterday and got in to good positions, he was unlucky first half and should have been the person that got us back in to the game yesterday with a goal in 2 matches running. He showed how much he cared yesterday also with how annoyed he was with missing that chance and at the end with how deflated he was. He is putting in big shifts at the moment, yes he frustrates but for me has been the player of the opening few rounds...feel for the fella this morning and hope this drives him on, grab a goal against his old club and then turn it on in Mudgee :)

    I've said it before, the guy loves playing for us & in front of our fans. Great guy but feel like we haven't taken to him as he had taken to us.

    On 28 October 2018 at 2:06 PM, FCB said:

    But Bozza, you are a bit late to the party, really. S3: red card against Saba for hitting the ball;

    Hahaha. You tell them Markus. And no, there was nothing wrong with your body language. Not at all. Welcome to the HAL, Markus.

    I was told that Ben Williams gave that red card, not because it was a red card but he was worried he was going to lose control of the game. It's his job to manage the game, not hand out red cards (for a reckless challenge) to do it for him.

    Nobody ever has had poor body language or used any abusive language to referees ever before on or off the field. I'd love to see some of the Arnie & Brosque blows ups from the last few years. He has had 2 games in Australia & he has been labelled as having an anger problem. 2 GAMES and they've come to this conclusion :lol: 

    On 28 October 2018 at 2:40 PM, btron3000 said:

    I was ready to walk out last night and if la Banda and capos etc. had left I’d have gone too. But what we did was better. We got angry, we got louder. We sounded like RBB should.

    If Babbel pulled the boys from the field, I wouldn't have blamed him.

    On 28 October 2018 at 4:25 PM, Davo said:

    I'm no lipreader but if that's enough to get sent off Brosque should walk every week with the way he talks to referees.

    :good: 

    On 28 October 2018 at 4:04 PM, Edinburgh said:

    To curry favour with FIFA? To impress FIFA with their forward thinking? 

    I believe they picked up 250,000 for taking on the trial last year.

    On 29 October 2018 at 5:59 PM, jockman said:

    I watch the bundesliga. Where VAR was introduced at the start of this season.

    No suprises.typical German efficiency. Used only when real doubt about a decision. VAR review process quick efficient. and in the games when ive seen it used . Usually on the money with decision. German referees seem to get it !!!

    Same VAR system here and Germany. So much controversy here. 

    German refs professional and top class

    A League refs muppets......

    I'm pro VAR, no I'm pro VAR when it's used properly. In Serie A, those VAR's were the ones that did the majority of the World Cup games. The usage is spot on, unfortunately it has been mistake after mistake in Australia meaning that it is very hard for us to trust VAR or Australian referees use of VAR.

    -------

    Whoever made that comment on Hamil, spot on :good: I don't think he has been outstanding but the last two seasons he has really stepped up. Not blaming the loss on VAR but instead his body language & the words "we just need to do whatever it takes to win"

    -------

    The performance: The guy goes around telling his players we have the worst squad in the league. We certainly played like it. The luck the smurfs get, that first goal which deflected out to the only smurf in the open & then the inept Beath doing his thing.

    First half, after the goal we were totally outplayed & second best. We did create some chances but like many previous derbies we have been so wasteful only for the smurfs to be clinical. Started the second half slow and that second goal, disaster.  We stepped on the gas after that devarcle but not good enough

    In Perth we showed some promise & in the derby we showed enough to prove that we won't come last. I think the devarcle has helped to deflect away from our performance which wasn't good enough. Lucky that we have been able to direct our anger at another derby loss under superfluous circumstances to VAR. It might not be pretty otherwise.

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    54 minutes ago, Carns said:

    Feels good reading that after the Smurfs lost. But he makes good points and I agree with pretty much all of it.

    So do I. You can’t deny that the change in that club has been remarkable. I remember in the early days of WSW, you’d go to a derby and it became second nature to win them for a while there. They used to be an absolute rabble. Those days are long gone now unfortunately for us. 

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    1 hour ago, hughsey said:

    So do I. You can’t deny that the change in that club has been remarkable. I remember in the early days of WSW, you’d go to a derby and it became second nature to win them for a while there. They used to be an absolute rabble. Those days are long gone now unfortunately for us. 

    They were an absolute rabble for FAR LONGER than when WSW arrived on the scene.

    Even when they won for the second time in 2010 (was it?)  - there was no feeling of solidity or self belief - such as they 've had for the past 2 seasons.

    Quite honestly, for all the Arnie contempt expressed here, you have to take your hat off to him. It didn't happen over night - but he had a vision (based on solid success at A League level with the Mariners -and look at them ever since he departed the scene! 😯)

    I'm sure some will say it's only about $$$$$$ and the FFA's/ referees favouritism (which I don't deny occurs) - but I think there's more to it than that.

    For all that rubs many the wrong way about Arnold  (well from opposition teams at least) the guy is able to pull his teams together - by recruiting brilliantly and getting his players working as a solid unit.

    And so far - that has been left behind as somewhat of a legacy (but I guess time will tell with that)

    We can only hope he's able to achieve something of this success  as our National Team coach (much as some haters probably won't easily give up being haters).

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    Yeah I remember back before WSW when the aleague began and I ‘supported’ the Mariners (mainly by way of free tickets), Sydney used to be the club with a lot of dollars but no sense. 

    Arnie is a simple, tough old bastard and it works. The biggest thing he instilled in Sydney was a winning mentality rather than being about the glits and glamour which they prided themselves on for so long. You can see that they’ve really dropped the whole bling tag over the last 3-5 years and it’s done them wonders.

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