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  • VAR & FFA Must Go After Derby Disgrace

    mack

    By mack

    Those in charge of Football Federation Australia must follow the VAR out the door after another display of the VAR and Australia's inept referees cheating the Wanderers, snuffing out a potential comeback in what should have been a classic Sydney Derby.

    Sydney FC scored an early goal just 4 minutes into the match. Adam Le Fondre standing in an offside position at a free kick, hung around after a half-clearance, the ball fell to him after a shot back in. Vedran Janjetovic smothered his initial shot but another piece of luck had him smack the rebound into an empty net. Replays showed that not only was Le Fondre offside at the free kick (but according to the VAR, somehow not interfering with play), but that Mahazi had been interfered with by an offside Brosque. The score was 1-0, and the VAR did nothing.

    After the break the Wanderers were two behind having gifted their opponents a golden chance to score. On the edge of their own area, Sotirio played a hospital ball to Josh Risdon, and instead of trying to clear, he played a sideways pass intended for Mahazi that was intercepted by Ninkovic, and he pounced to play through Brosque and his first time strike beat Janjetovic at the far post.

    Despite going two behind, the Wanderers did show some of the vaunted mentality Markus Babbel has been trying to instill in his charges, but when they finally converted one of their chances to score, it was cruelly and idiotically over-turned by the inept Chris Beath with an assist from the VAR. Baumjohann and Risdon worked down the right flank, the Risdon cross made it's way to the other end of the area where Roly Bonevacia smashed an 18 yard first time rocket past Andrew Redmayne.

    With no real protests from the home side, the VAR intervened to take away the goal. Chris Beath decided that Michael Zullo had been fouled by Jaushua Sotirio in the lead up to the cross. While Sotirio was in an offside position, Zullo's choice to dive into Sotirio while meters away from the ball was rewarded with Beath over-turning the decision by declaring Sotirio had fouled the SFC defender. in the aftermath Markus Babbel exploded at the fourth official, remonstrating to show his disgust at the call. He was awarded the A-League's first "Coach Red Card" by Beath. Babbel then walked around the long boundary of the Sydney Cricket Ground, a route that took him in front of the RBB who roared their approval.

    The failure was compounded in the post-game with Beath being interviewed and stating that the decision was actually offside, even though vision showed clearly that his decision was that it was a foul. Additionally, his interview stated that the linesman who was as close to Sotirio as Zullo was to Risdon, had completely missed the offside/foul and that the decision was solely made by VAR and himself.

    It was another display of referees who aren't good enough to be officiating our most important football games.

    Enough is enough.

    This is not just the VAR. Although it needs to be cancelled immediately. The VAR failed from the moment it was introduced. Bad decisions have been made since Wellington Phoenix were robbed against Sydney FC in Round 26 in 2016/17. Perth Glory were robbed in the Semi-Final in that season. The technology failed Newcastle Jets in the Grand Final last. It failed to detect Bruno Fornaroli diving in the recent Melbourne Derby. It tonight secured another game for Sydney FC. Offsides are a lottery. Tonight WSW have a goal taken away for offside. Last year Adelaide when playing against us had a clear offside goal investigated by the VAR be allowed to stand.

    The Wanderers were cruelled against Perth Glory when sideline cameras failed to be in the right decision for an obvious offside, leading to a red card against us. It ignores certain laws like encroachment at penalties, and offsides against players standing offside from free kicks. When looking at holding in the penalty area from set pieces the VAR is seemingly over intended to confirm whatever decision was made on the field. When a decision isn't made on the pitch by the referee, the basic law against holding is ignored by the VAR. The level of intervention around forceful tackles once saw the Mariners reduced by two players from VAR decisions, while other tackles that could break legs are ignored in other games.

    This is the result of a long held refusal by the FFA to enforce basic standards of officiating skill. We have seen officials give baffling offsides against players standing behind the ball being played. We have seen offsides given from a throw in. There is zero consistency in the application of offside. There is zero consistency in the application of handball. Certain teams received baffling leniency when playing tactics that deliberately disrupt their opposition with professional fouls in the midfield.

    The time for incremental change is over.

    Now that the FFA Governance saga is over, I call on whoever makes up the new FFA Board to immediately sack FFA Chief Executive David Gallop, Head of the A-League Greg O'Rourke, FFA Referees boss Ben Wilson, and A-League referees Chris Beath, Jarred Gillett, Kurt Ams, Peter Green and Shaun Evans. The FFA/A-League positions must be filled with people passionate about football. The VAR must be immediately cancelled and never return to Australian football.

    Get in touch with the football associations in German, England, Japan and Holland. Ask for the phone numbers of some consistent referees, who might be inclined to spend 6 months in the Australian summer. Bring them over. 

    The current people in charge of Football Federation Australia have lost the trust of the football community. 

    The new FFA Board must take the chance to rebuild the foundation of our sport in a positive, intelligent matter to take the sport forward once again. We risk turning the A-League into a joke, and having it be abandoned to the ruin of all the good work done by the players, clubs and supporters up to now. If the FFA fail to rectify the situation, a repeat of the ban list fan boycott is on the cards, and was called for by Mark Bosnich in the Fox Sports post-game show. I would wholeheartedly approve of that action.

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    mack

    I doubt there's going to be a Bozza inspired boycott. Smurf fans aren't going to get involved, and I wouldn't blame Victory fans for not wanting to get involved after they finally got the FFA and club off their backs.

    What's more likely is that it just kills individuals desire to care.

    I guarantee there are Mariners fans who gave up on the league after their two red card VAR game last year. The more idiotic VAR calls happen, people will simply quit caring.

    Link to comment
    marron

    Yeah, similar to lloydy, I've been against any sort of this thing for years, and that's one of the reasons.One of the best things about the game is the sheer euphoria of a goal. VAR completely ****s with that, whether they implement it right or no. Even when it's not used, because you'll always have a niggle now that maybe it'll get called back. 

    Link to comment
    btron3000
    Just now, marron said:

    you'll always have a niggle now that maybe it'll get called back. 

    Unless you support the smurfs, in which case you’ll still be waiting, but mainly for the ref to overcall it your way.

    Link to comment
    Bellby

    Well, I don’t think I’m winning this argument but...

    I was going to use the SFC v Perth as an example myself but I couldn’t remember which game it was nor if the refs came out afterwards & said they made the wrong call or not. Very similar incidents although I think last nights was nowhere near as clear cut. Sotorio did little wrong & Zullo made a meal, but he was offside & he impeded a player that would of had an opportunity to stop the cross or potentially change Risdons (?) decision entirely. 

    This woe is me **** is creeping into our club like it has in the RBB. The better teams in the comp will always get more ‘luck’, it happens in every sport in every comp in the world but I don’t think we are intentionally being screwed. We had ample opportunity to take something from that game last night despite being poor. 

    Someone mentioned about the squad. We paid decent coin to secure both Kamau & Fitzgerald. We allowed a coach who we knew we were punting to head hunt & sign these blokes. Which professional club would allow that to happen? MB is now actively trying to offload these players literally 4 months after we signed them on longish term deals. It’s amatuer hour. He hasn’t really given either a fair crack & both IMO would improve our starting 11. Others might disagree but both have been starters in far stronger forward lines then ours - City. Both still have a lot of upside as well. I don’t really rate Raul at all but he started him near every game in preseason & then drops him to the bench Rnd 1 for someone just as average. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

    Link to comment
    Burztur
    14 minutes ago, Bellby said:

    Zullo made a meal, but he was offside & he impeded a player that would of had an opportunity to stop the cross or potentially change Risdons (?) decision entirely. 

    The fact that you said Zullo made a meal of the incident shows that even you are thinking that Sotirio was not impeding play. 

    On the cross itself, it was intercepted by a SFC player and that defensive lapse on SFC's part gave Roly the space for a goal. 

    The VAR rewinding everything until they find a missed call to disallow a goal shows that the whole thing is a farce.

    Link to comment
    btron3000
    3 hours ago, tardotz said:

    On the same account why did their first goal stand (after the VAR review) the player came from an offside position but was deemed not to interfere with play. Every player on the field is interfering with play directly or indirectly....where do you draw the line. ?

    Yes, and the introduction of the VAR should have been done with a view to re-look at how it impacted all other rules. Once you introduce technology, it impacts how you are able to adjudicate everything.  But the VAR has been introduced by FIFA with no thought for how it will affect the game. They just dumped it on everyone and kind of got away with it at the World Cup because they had 6 zillion people in a box watching HDTVs as big as my whole apartment. Why the FFA - who clearly had and have more important things to worry about - thought it'd be a good idea to be the guinea pigs is beyond me.

    If you look at the Sydney one with Bujis, and now our one, the real question is whether the offside players are impacting play. Surely this means that they should now reconsider the "passive" offside rule in light of the technology?  By telling linesmen that they should leave their flag down if unsure and wait to see if a goal is scored, they have basically admitted that it's hard to tell if someone is offside.  If you take that logic, then anyone in the vicinity of the ball is offside, passive or not. If the linesman can't tell if someone is offside, how can you expect a defender - whose job it is to stop someone scoring! - to just ignore an attacker simply because he might be slightly offside? The defender must take the attacker into account, and therefore it should be offside. So, the introduction of VAR should have led to the removal, or at least a strong winding back, of the passive offside rule.

    That would mean that last night's was offside, but I'm good with that if they all are, including at free kicks like Le Fondre. At the very least, they need to define what impacting play means. If they said sometjing like "the benefit of any doubt should go to the defending team and it is the attackers responsibility to not be offside or impact play", then great, we know where we stand and last night would have been offside. But they haven't. They've just flung a hand grenade into all the leagues who have taken up the VAR, and they'll pick up the pieces later.

    Link to comment
    Zelinsky
    1 minute ago, Bellby said:

    Someone mentioned about the squad. We paid decent coin to secure both Kamau & Fitzgerald. We allowed a coach who we knew we were punting to head hunt & sign these blokes. Which professional club would allow that to happen? MB is now actively trying to offload these players literally 4 months after we signed them on longish term deals. It’s amatuer hour. He hasn’t really given either a fair crack & both IMO would improve our starting 11. Others might disagree but both have been starters in far stronger forward lines then ours - City. Both still have a lot of upside as well. I don’t really rate Raul at all but he started him near every game in preseason & then drops him to the bench Rnd 1 for someone just as average. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

    Welcome back, mapman.

    No, what you are writing is not making sense at all.

    We signed five players in January, at which time Gombau was still very much in charge. It's standard procedure in the HAL ot sign this early, even though the signings are only announced once the season is over. It all was explained by JT in the last member's forum.

    MB is actively trying to offload these players? After two rounds? Even though four of them had a good game yesterday?

    Kamau, Fitzgerald, Tongyik, O'Doherty were all squaddies and bench players in their previous clubs. Our coach has certain standards. A player needs to show him in training that he wants to play, has what it takes, and can follow instructions. Both Kamau and Fitzgerald need to have a serious look at themselves that a Sotirio is playing ahead of them.  

    Raul picked up an injury in the FFA cup semi, had to sit out Rd 1 because of it, and lost his spot to Elrich for now.

     

    Link to comment
    lloydy136

    if its any consolation, robbie slater is being utterly brutalised on social media.

    he posted that the VAR and ref got things 100% right and then invited everyone to have a crack at him. so they did. including someone who found an old tweet of his where he argues the exact opposite on a similar situation (the syd fc v perth one referred to earlier I think).

    probably the highlight (along with babbel jacket toss) of the last 24 hours.

    Link to comment
    Smoggy
    4 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

    if its any consolation, robbie slater is being utterly brutalised on social media.

    he posted that the VAR and ref got things 100% right and then invited everyone to have a crack at him. so they did. including someone who found an old tweet of his where he argues the exact opposite on a similar situation (the syd fc v perth one referred to earlier I think).

    probably the highlight (along with babbel jacket toss) of the last 24 hours.

    Terrible pundit....should be sacked by Fox..

    Edited by Smoggy
    Link to comment
    Paul01
    7 hours ago, Paul01 said:

    Record under the cheat Beath in the HAL

    14 games

    2 wins (v CCM and v Smurfs@ANZ)

    6 draws

    6 losses

    Fixed

    Link to comment
    btron3000
    23 minutes ago, Bellby said:

     This woe is me **** is creeping into our club like it has in the RBB. The better teams in the comp will always get more ‘luck’, it happens in every sport in every comp in the world but I don’t think we are intentionally being screwed. 

    Not only do the better teams (or those considered better) seem to get more luck, but they definiely get more calls go their way. It happens everywhere. Doesn't mean it has to be put up with.

    But I don't agree there is a victim mentality, in our club or the RBB.  If people think the RBB has a victim mentality then they don't know all the **** that the RBB has dealt with. The RBB keep going, they have just boycotted when they felt that was the best path forward. And as marron said earlier in this thread, they are conscious that people will see one action as a complaint about one thing, whereas in fact it usually takes A LOT before the RBB take a stance.

    Link to comment
    Davo
    4 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

    if its any consolation, robbie slater is being utterly brutalised on social media.

    he posted that the VAR and ref got things 100% right and then invited everyone to have a crack at him. so they did. including someone who found an old tweet of his where he argues the exact opposite on a similar situation (the syd fc v perth one referred to earlier I think).

    probably the highlight (along with babbel jacket toss) of the last 24 hours.

    His latest tweet was complaining about everyone having a crack at him. The responses are all reminders that he literally asked for it.

    Link to comment
    Smoggy
    1 minute ago, btron3000 said:

    My vote goes to the booting of the advertising sign.

    Right up there with the Popa water bottle throw down. we need an image of that sign boot we can use :D

    Edited by Smoggy
    Link to comment
    Neverbloom
    1 hour ago, FCB said:

    They might sign Gombau again one day, if that's what it takes to rekindle your passion. Maybe the position as driver for the WSW team bus will become vacant at some stage...

    well i have not been passionate since we have started at spotless, just saying

    Link to comment
    Edinburgh
    18 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

    Yes, and the introduction of the VAR should have been done with a view to re-look at how it impacted all other rules. Once you introduce technology, it impacts how you are ale to adjudicate everything.  But the VAR has been introduced by FIFA with no thought for how it will affect the game. They just dumped it on everyone and kind of got away with it at the World Cup because they had 6 zillion people in a box watching HDTVs as big as my whole apartment. Why the FFA - who clearly had and have more important things to worry about - thought it'd be a good idea to be the guinea pigs is beyond me.

    If you look at the Sydney one with Bujis, and now our one, the real question is whether the offside players are impacting play. Surely this means that they should now reconsider the "passive" offside rule in light of the technology?  By telling linesmen that they should leave their flag down if unsure and wait to see if a goal is scored, they have basically admitted that it's hard to tell if someone is offside.  If you take that logic, then anyone in the vicinity of the ball is offside, passive or not. If the linesman can't tell if someone is offside, how can you expect a defender - whose job it is to stop someone scoring! - to just ignore an attacker simply because he might be slightly offside? The defender must take the attacker into account, and therefore it should be offside. So, the introduction of VAR should have led to the removal, or at least a strong winding back, of the passive offside rule.

    That would mean that last night's was offside, but I'm good with that if they all are, including at free kicks like Le Fondre. At the very least, they need to define what impacting play means. If they said sometjing like "the benefit of any doubt should go to the defending team and it is the attackers responsibility to not be offside or impact play", then great, we know where we stand and last night would have been offside. But they haven't. They've just flung a hand grenade into all the leagues who have taken up the VAR, and they'll pick up the pieces later.

    To curry favour with FIFA? To impress FIFA with their forward thinking? 

    Link to comment
    btron3000
    1 minute ago, Edinburgh said:

    To curry favour with FIFA? To impress FIFA with their forward thinking? 

    Probably. Wouldn't be the first time they've put politics ahead of the game. I mean, with all they've got on - and the constant claims of having no cash - why would they take on extra work? Then this year they doubled down with the bunker thing. 

    Link to comment
    btron3000
    Just now, Burztur said:

    Maccas sponsorship revenue.

    Ah yes. Of course. That should definitely not be allowed. Even FIFA were smart enough to avoid that snake pit at the World Cup.

    Link to comment
    Paul01
    1 minute ago, btron3000 said:

    Probably. Wouldn't be the first time they've put politics ahead of the game. I mean, with all they've got on - and the constant claims of having no cash - why would they take on extra work? Then this year they doubled down with the bunker thing. 

    More like, if we put VAR in will you leave us alone.

    Link to comment
    Burztur
    Just now, Paul01 said:

    More like, if we put VAR in will you leave us alone.

    Yes, also a deflection move. No normalization committee for being guinea pigs. 

     

    VAR also deflected everyone from governance problems (intentional or not).

    Link to comment
    btron3000

    With all the talk about the no goal, what about Babbel getting a red? He said himself that he thinks he should just be told to calm down.

    It's a derby, and he swore a bit. Can't the refs have the common sense to just give him a yellow? 

    Anyway, firing us up as he walked off = instant club legend.

    Link to comment
    Paul01

    The Football world is trending with Markus being sent off. FFA can't stop the flood of criticism.

    Watch Gallop get a please explain from FIFA and IFAB. 

    FIFA accreditation of A-league referees may be on the line.

    Link to comment
    Davo
    8 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

    With all the talk about the no goal, what about Babbel getting a red? He said himself that he thinks he should just be told to calm down.

    It's a derby, and he swore a bit. Can't the refs have the common sense to just give him a yellow? 

    Anyway, firing us up as he walked off = instant club legend.

    I'm no lipreader but if that's enough to get sent off Brosque should walk every week with the way he talks to referees.

    Link to comment
    BBB
    2 minutes ago, Davo said:

    I'm no lipreader but if that's enough to get sent off Brosque should walk every week with the way he talks to referees.

    There was one time last night when Brosque let rip and it was clearly picked up by the fox mics. Can't believe how often he gets away with it.

    Link to comment
    Paul01
    1 minute ago, BBB said:

    There was one time last night when Brosque let rip and it was clearly picked up by the fox mics. Can't believe how often he gets away with it.

    Yes you can. He is capt of Team FFA

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