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  • Hatamoto & FFA Jeopardise Supporter Safety at Sydney Derby


    mack

    Hatamoto have gone against world best practice with their decision to hold back Western Sydney supporters at the conclusion of the first ever Sydney Derby.

     

    The move has sparked anger among the supporter group the Red & Black Bloc. It is against world-wide practice and will lead to confusion and potential safety issues. With the Derby being considered a 'high risk' match in terms of security and police arrangements the FFA's security agency Hatamoto have made a decision to keep the entire Wanderers active support bay inside the stadium for 30 minutes after the match.

     

    While the gates will not be locked, Hatamoto have advised the supporters that they will be labelled 'non-conformist' should they attempt to leave. The counter-terror security agency have threatened that supporters who leave the ground before Hatamoto desire them to will be targeted by their security. Hatamoto have indicated that even a minor 'offence' such as crossing a street without security approval could lead to being detained and/or being banned from A-League matches. There have also been threats made that jeopardise future supporter marches and other supporter group events. This is a grave insult to people who have put their hard earned money as well as their time and effort into this club, at such a vital time for the club.

     

    The decision has said to have been made due to 'logistics' reasons. The FFA believe that when the Wanderers win the match, the supporters in the Red & Black Bloc will prefer to stay inside the bay to celebrate rather than making their way to their home pub. The FFA have planned some minor events to take place during this 30 minute dead zone. Hatamoto will be stationing security guards to discourage people from moving about. It is also important to note that the Red & Black Bloc are located in an end that is not exclusively for active support. Only three of the bays are active support. It will mean Hatamoto guards will be preventing families, many with young children, from leaving the stadium on time. The Wanderers club have sided with their supporters and pushed for the away fans to stay inside the stadium but as the Wanderers only rent the stadium their hands are tied by the FFA, Stadium, Police and Hatamoto.

     

    Matt Adamson spent 4 years in a senior management position at one of Europe's leading crowd management companies. He has vast experience with contracts involving the largest clubs in the world and I asked for his thoughts on the issue of crowd control at football matches, "There are two common methods for safe egress of supporters at the conclusion of a football match that is deemed high risk. The first is to hold back away fans while the home fans disperse. This has been utilised previously at A-League fixtures in Newcastle, Melbourne & Gosford and is the standard procedure throughout Europe. The other method is to segregate fans via the use of designated entry/exit gates and temporary fencing to serve as a physical barrier.

     

    "I believe that the current position of Hatamoto and their recommendations for the management of the crowd at the Sydney derby are reflective of a skill-set that is not compatible with football. They ignore the passions and expectations of fans. It is ignorant of accepted traditions and widely accepted practices in managing football crowds safely.

     

    "Hatamoto is taking the opposite approach and attitude towards this fixture than what I observed during my time in European football. While I have no doubt that Hatamoto are experts in counter-terrorism, they have a lot to learn about football."

     

    A listing of matches, countries and leagues which follow the home supporters first doctrine would be endless. The doctrine is accepted best practice and is commonplace worldwide. Throughout all levels of league football, cup matches, derby, non-derby, continental and international matches away supporters are kept behind. This method is in practice for the A-League as well. Sydney FC supporters would already be expecting to stay behind for a period of time and many would have operated under the condition in previous away matches such as those in Gosford, Newcastle and Melbourne. In general the vast majority of away supporters at a match will be in the away bays and they will stick together until they leave the stadium. Home supporters could be in many different stands even if they come to the stadium as a group, and locking in groups of home supporters will mean people hanging around the stadium waiting for the rest of their group. Keeping away fans in their bay enables security to spend more time preparing for the exit of the away supporters as well as enabling potentially aggressive supporters of the home team to be pushed away from the stadium.

     

    Western Sydney Supporters spokesman Sean Herrett spoke to WestSydneyFootball.Com about the situation, "The Parramatta police are not sure what to expect. They are not football educated. The Chief Inspector of Parramatta LAC was unaware of the practice of away supporters being kept in their bays after the match. The officer who was in charge for the first round match is no longer involved and appears not to have passed on any knowledge and information to the replacement officer."

     

    This turn of events is disappointing for supporters of football in Australia. Active support groups have spent years trying to educate the police and security forces in regards to the best way to enable safe active support and the safe exit of supporters regardless of what team they followed. While the A-League is being advertised by the slogan 'We Are Football' it is necessary to remind those who 'are not yet football' what the best practices are in situations that crop up dozens of times every year in world football. Over zealous security and police responses have a chilling effect on the active support culture that enables football to generate atmosphere unmatched by any other code of sport in Australia. It is up to the police and security to get educated and to listen to supporter groups and those with experience in football crowd management. With Melbourne Victory advising their fans not to travel to 'high risk' matches due to over zealous security treatment, as well as police brutality against Sydney United supporters in a Wanderers pre-season fixture, it is clear that security and police forces have yet to truly understand active support culture. NSW Police, and the Parramatta Local Area Command in particular have shown a desire to become educated and to understand the situation to enable safe conduct for all parties in regards to Western Sydney Wanderers matches. Hatamoto has not.

     

    Hatamoto are still refusing to engage with football supporters and are failing to educate their own leadership about football culture. Such issues have been raised as long as Hatamoto have been involved with the A-League. In 2009 Hatamoto were exposed for attempting to infiltrate supporters groups with undercover security guards. In 2011 questions were raised as to why a counter-terrorism company would be involved with football as well what qualifications the leaders of Hatamoto had to dictate security procedures for football matches.

     

    Sean Herrett talked about his dealings with Hatamoto, "I personally spoke with Peter Shepherd from Hatamoto. Mr Shepherd is aware of our anger over the situation, but has dismissed our concerns due to his experience over the past 5 years in dealing with A-League supporter groups. Mr Shepherd also refused to continue with direct dialogue and instead demanded all discussion to go through middlemen at the FFA."

     

    When the security group are the only group unwilling to directly discuss the situation with the supporters group, can anyone blame the supporter groups for their distrust of Hatamoto? Hatamoto work to stereotype and exaggerate the 'threat' that supporters group have to the A-League brand and the safety of other patrons to A-League matches. Hatamoto are the only group who must continually justify their existence and input into the A-League. The police have a duty to the public. The FFA run the competition. The supporters want to support their team and watch the matches. The players play in these matches. The club participate in the competition. If Hatamoto cannot justify their existence in the A-League they will lose their lucrative contracts. In a way it makes sense that they would refuse to engage. By refusing to engage it enables them to suggest to the FFA that their job will never be complete and to avoid humanising their 'targets'. The problem is that refusal to engage puts the supporters at risk of over-zealous security guards.

     

    In the first round match against the Central Coast Mariners the only piece of crowd trouble came from a group of people not from the Red & Black Bloc. They had tickets and/or memberships for the section of the ground next to the away bay. Should they desire to cause trouble again they could cause a major problem by attacking Sydney FC fans who are let out at the same time as they are, while the security is focused on keeping the Red & Black Bloc penned inside the home end.

     

    The obvious solution is holding the Sydney FC fans in their bay as per standard worldwide practice so that all Western Sydney Wanderers supporters can disperse and leave the vicinity of the stadium. 30 minutes later this would be followed by police and security escorting the Sydney FC fans to Parramatta Station. Instead Hatamoto have decided on a patch-work solution that will only exacerbate the potential for trouble instead of reducing it.

     

    Football Federation Australia must remember that it is not Peter Shepherd and Hatamoto who run football in Australia or the A-League. It is Frank Lowy, Ben Buckley and Damien de Bohun. They must remind themselves that the reason they run football is for the supporters of the game, not for the bank balance of a secretive counter-terrorist security company looking for their next contract.

     

    The Western Sydney Wanderers, Football Federation Australia, Hatamoto, the Red & Black Bloc and NSW Police are still in negotiations to determine the final security arrangements and we hope to bring positive news on that front.

     

    The Sydney Derby will be played at 7:45pm on Saturday the 20th of October at Parramatta Stadium. The match has sold out to the general public. Membership and Corporate tickets are still available but in limited numbers.


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    Recommended Comments



    Sub

    Posted

    Plus it's kind of hard to prove you're not a violent thug when you're locked in a stadium. Unless not beating up ourselves counts for something.

    elchapo

    Posted

    Hatamoto stooges are pretty easy to pick out in a crowd

     

    they are the ones in cargo shorts, polo shirts and have the lil ear pieces like the secret service have

    Davo

    Posted

    Plus it's kind of hard to prove you're not a violent thug when you're locked in a stadium. Unless not beating up ourselves counts for something.

     

    Exactly. That's not behaving yourself, that's being prevented from causing trouble by the security measures put in place.

    WSdna

    Posted

    hatamoto wanna film us...we should film them only logical

    Jowel

    Posted

    we need some good Hatamoto chants

    RBBKopite

    Posted

    Let's not turn this into a soap opera. "Dislocating the fabric of the city"? WHAT THE..?!?!?!?

     

    There are still a couple of days for common sense to prevail, and I know I'm not the only one thinking that we should not have made our feelings about the situation public until a firm decision had been made. Hindsight always has clear vision though.

     

    We can't change what has been done, nor can we change decisions that have been taken without engaging us at all. Our concerns remain the same, and for me personally, my opinion of Hatamoto that they are complete incompatible with football has only grown stronger. It is widely known that they are founded by a former Federal cop whose specialty is counter-terrorism, and I'm sure that if let loose the omnipotent Peter Shepherd would single-handedly eliminate Al Qaeda armed with nothing but cargo pants and a polo shirt. He's freaking McGuyver like that!!

     

    What the FFA need to realise is that you can't wave the flags of transparency and engagement with one hand whilst writing a cheque for an obnoxious group of pseduo-spies with the other.

    WanderersFC

    Posted

    We all want to be the first ones going out, and that's the way it should be. Everywhere in the world is like that. Personally I don't care what decision they make, I will be listening to our capo's. If they say we go, we go and no one stays back. No one cares what Hatamoto has to say anyway. **** them.

    mack

    Posted

    There are still a couple of days for common sense to prevail, and I know I'm not the only one thinking that we should not have made our feelings about the situation public until a firm decision had been made. Hindsight always has clear vision though.

     

    If we hadn't made our views clear Hatamoto would have gone ahead without any kind of public discourse.

    WanderersFC

    Posted

    Guys we got the channel 9 chant. Lets just use it for Hatamoto as well.

    dongle

    Posted

    Hatamato full of ****, hmmm not very free flowing

    elchapo

    Posted (edited)

    hey hatamoto

    let the rbb go home

     

    to the tune of another brick in the wall

    Edited by elchapo
    Trojan

    Posted

    I hope esfc fans get belted outaide by locals and random wsw fans so the blame can go squarely on the cops and hatamoto for being pieces of sheit

    Benched

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

    Burztur

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

     

    That's positive news.

    mack

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

     

    Then our call should be to leave immediately after the game. They can keep the Smurfs in the away section for half an hour.

    Llama

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

     

    Then our call should be to leave immediately after the game. They can keep the Smurfs in the away section for half an hour.

     

    x2

    Trojan

    Posted

    We go first.. Away fans stay.. We go woolpack drink up hang out. Cove gets escorted to the station.. Problem solved.. Not so ****ing

    Hard!

    matty

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

     

    Then our call should be to leave immediately after the game. They can keep the Smurfs in the away section for half an hour.

     

    x2

     

    Is this the option benched or are you saying its our choice whether to stay back or not?

     

    You're not saying we can choose to have the smurfs stay back in our stead are you?

    Trojan

    Posted

    Guy's, the club has informed me the decision is firmly ours.

     

    Yes, they would appreciate us staying back so they can get the smurfs out of Parra. That is the preferred option.

     

    However, if we want to go first, nothing stopping us and they'll work around us.

    It's our call.

     

    Then our call should be to leave immediately after the game. They can keep the Smurfs in the away section for half an hour.

     

    X73628737362781873737372829020183

     

    Quoted for common sense..

     

    Rbb with wanderers fc fans and neutrals.. Away supporter get held back!

    Genius!

    Jowel

    Posted

    We don't need no, hatamoto...

     

     

    Noise

    Posted (edited)

    Esteemed members of the Red and Black Bloc and WSW fans in general,

     

    Yesterday I got a phone call from members of the Parramatta Police FORCE. Why?..because apparantly im the all conquering, fascist dictator of the RBB and my word is like a direct message from God himself. :nono:

     

    How on earth they got my number confused me at first. Then i aquired some information on what they have been up to recently. These guys have gone and gathered detailed background checks, fingerprints of Myself, Benched, RBBKopite, WSSKIN as well as other members of the RBB. Apparantly we are the "extremists" of the group lol...exactly what that means I have no idea. They tried to repeatedly pin me as the riot incinting "ring leader" who single handedly controlls the RBB. They obviously havent realised that every major decision the RBB has taken has been decided by us as a whole. We've voted off on most of the important issues and rightfully so. We all have a say in what goes on.

     

    I kept repeating that I and a few other of the lads are primarily chant starters and we also lend a little advice from time to time. Its the RBB's decision to march down church street. Read over this entire thread. This is the first time ive posted in it..yet go back a few pages and read that almost the ENTIRE RBB has reacted negatively to being held back at the end of the game. Again..its a general opinion supported by ALL. I'm emphasizing this because the police essentially threatened me and a few others with an arrest and a banning it anything went wrong.

     

    Other key topics they talked about: Apparantly by marching down church street we are breaking the law because we would be "intimidating church street locals". Obviously they wern't there to see just how much all the regular church street goers where enjoying what we were doing. But hey.... they know better than us right because they were there. :good: ( they also havent read the parramatta advertiser article by alex gauchi? praising the RBB for the excitement and passion we bought to the city centre...why is this I wonder?). Also they were worried about us banging on street/business signs and (get ready for it).....Jaywalking! Thats right our local street protectors have even said to me that they will be on the lookout for "anti social" behaviour and they willl be pulling people up for jaywalking..possibly even fining or arresting a few.

     

    They even lied to me about the intentions of Benched and RBBKopite..saying that they had complied with all their requests and that I was the only one reacting "negatively" to this situation..which ofcourse ended up being complete bullshit. Benched and RBBKopite did not such thing..they also spent the entire time fighting against their completely unreasonable requests.

    I said to them that the ONLY negative feedback about the RBB at the mariners game we have received have been from our boys in blue. With just about every other major social contributor including the local media, church street regulars and business employees, the general public and even suits from OUR OWN club being entirely positive about the march and active support in general. Only Hatamoto and the local police (SHOCK HORROR) have a problem. They are creating an us vs them mentality and are out to **** us all.

     

    I ended the conversation by saying that if the RBB decides to march down church street...If the RBB decides to not stay back at the end of the game it is a decision made by us a whole. Not I, WSKIN, Benched, RBBKopite, Mack etc are going to deter the groups decision. We are worth no more..are no better than any other dedicated supporter of this club, we do not run anything..nor decide for it.

     

    We, together as one, as weve done from the very beginning will decided the fate of our group.

     

    I'm emotional..emotional because of the outstanding response from the RBB and WSW fans in general. We all realise that they are trying to demoralize us. And are together as a group and reacting against this undeserved withc hunt. Shoulder to Shoulder, gents. We will not be spat on and treated like criminals when we have done little to nothing wrong these past few months. Solidarity and a clear mind will see us through the hard times. :drinks:

     

    We are the Red and Black bloc. Hold your heads up high. I could not be prouder to be associated with all of you. :)

     

     

    WARNING: They are gonna be all over us like flies on **** this game. So I advise this:

     

    *During the march we do not spill out onto the road. Some of the rbb members should help police this by spreading out maintaining a position along the edge of the walk way. From here we can make sure nobody walks where they shouldnt (at the very least in the middle of church street, the restaurant section..the rest of the march is pretty placid tbh)

     

    *Do not bang on road signs/business property. Yes nobody gives a flying **** *(not us nor the business owners...nobody really) but our friends down at Parramatta police do. So keep your hands to yourselves you 'crazy murderers; you.

     

    Those are the two things they emphasized (probably because those are they only things they have seen in the youtube videos which they can charge us with :D), but we as the RBB need to control ourselves. Be wary of the undercover cops within our midsts as well. They are waiting for one slip up and they are going to pounce on us like dogs. They want a reason to destroy us..they are looking for a reaction. WE WILL NOT GIVE IT TO THEM. We are much better and much smarter than that ;)

     

    We can get through this, my friends. Stick together, back each other up and lets show these "protectors of the law" that they will not hound us, they will not intimidate us. We havent done anything for them to treat us with such disrespect. We will give them no reason to brutalise our support group. We see right through their thin veil of lies. We know exactly what their doing. If all goes well and we do what we must...we'll all drink and sing long into the night.

     

    We are the RBB. This is only the beginning. :friends:

     

    Your brother in beer and football,

     

    Pabz

     

    (Yes..I know you're reading this. FYIY fellow forum members. The local authorities read this page on a regular basis. In detail as well. They also read the "private" RBB page on facebook. So I advise any forumite to watch what they post...it may well be used in court to send any of you terrorists to guantanamo bay :rofl: )

    Edited by Noise
    wilsonpastore

    Posted

    hey hatamoto

    let the rbb go home

     

    to the tune of another brick in the wall

     

    i like it

    Neverbloom

    Posted (edited)

    great post Noise also to add to that i recently watched something about swearing in public so maybe its best if at least for the march we do not do chanting with swearing because we can be fined for it and i bet they will jump on us for swearing too just my opinion just want to keep us safe so we can have fun

     

    also does anyone know if they are doing background checks for everyone or just a few people in the RBB? creepy either way

    Edited by TheGoatOfDoom
    Benched

    Posted

    Noise.....I'm on my feet, applauding.

    Well said.

     

    For the record, I can confirm everything that's been said above.

     

    Shoulder to Shoulder.

    elpli9

    Posted

    Don't Parra police station have a community liaison officer? Shouldn't that officer be involved in the communication between the police and the RBB?

    Benched

    Posted

    Mattyb, my understanding is if we choose to go, the smurfs will be held back.

    We have to give Shaun a call 10 minutes from fulltime so they can organise their crap.

    It's our call brothers.

     

    If we are up 3-0, I wanna stay.

     

    BTW, the cops, secco's and pub will not be allowing any visible smurfs into the woolie post match, prior to us getting there.

    RBBKopite

    Posted

    I can also confirm everything Noise has said. We've been accused of being ringleaders, extremists and over the course of Hatamoto's spygames we've been treated like dangerous terrorists.

     

    It is clear what Hatamoto and the police want to do, and I think it is equally clear how we need to respond. Loud, proud and shoulder to shoulder as the RBB!

    eZZa

    Posted

    If they are worried about jay walking and damage to property can we get the roads on the march route closed for that half on our home games?

    mltezr

    Posted

    guys whatever happens we need to stay together. shoulder to shoulder guys.

    they can destroy a couple of guys, but not as a whole.

    the typical line "united we stand, divided we fall".

    Rookoz

    Posted

    Why the **** they creating tension?! It's just creating a powder keg with a short bloody fuse. Do they want us to run amok so that they can justify their jobs.

     

    Does the club knows?

     

    Bring your camera phones everybody make sure everything is film, wouldn't be ****ing surprise that they will be some intimidation (over reaction from them) with nitpickery for some minor ****.

     

    Shoulder To Shoulder!!




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